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Where would you live: Cairo or Phnom Penh

Where would you live: Cairo or Phnom Penh

Old Dec 11th, 2007, 12:32 AM
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Where would you live: Cairo or Phnom Penh

I know this is one of those insanely subjective questions, but I'm facing this dilemma and after having one too many B & Ts it seems like a good idea to solicit some opinions here. It would definitely be great to hear from someone who has lived in *both* places, but I imagine that's unlikely so I definitely would love to hear from anyone who lived in either place, esp. if they were on a low budget and/or are a single woman.

thanks!

mp413 on a saturday night
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Old Dec 11th, 2007, 04:03 PM
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Hello

I lived in Phnom Penh for 4 months and a total of 6 in the past year. Although I lived with a cambodia family which made it easier it can be done easily. I had my wife rent me a home for $110 a month and after that I managed to spend about $6-7 a day on food and needed supplies.

You will need to learn some of there language if you stay there long enough. Lower denominations like food etc I would use riel not dollar.

I dont know how long you will stay there but try and find a place that rents monthly, and find a motobike to rent.

I think you would become bored with the place after a few weeks, so find a place to do volunteer work or a school to teach at.

good luck to you
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Old Dec 11th, 2007, 05:14 PM
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Haven't lived in either, but I've been to both. There's a lot more to see in Cairo, but it's also a lot more hectic. I'd probably pick PP, partly because I prefer smaller towns, partly because it would make a great base for visiting other places in SEA and partly because I care about how the Cambodians are recovering from the Pol Pot era. Also, I think I'd feel safer there on a long term basis (I'm an older woman who travels alone).
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Old Dec 11th, 2007, 09:09 PM
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I would do some fact checking to see which country is cheapest to live in!

I think Cambodia will be a little easier for women than Egypt. Just an opinion! I think Western women get more respect in Cambodia than in Egypt!

Cambodia may be a little more boring but Bangkok is only an hour or so flying time from Phnom Penh.

If you are looking for a place to retire to - also consider Thailand. Thailand has modern malls, good transportation, modern supermarkets, cheap accommodation (compared to Western countries) and good dentists and hospitals! You don't have to live in the city you could have a nice place in the countryside but when you get a little "bored" you can easily get back to the Bangkok.




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Old Dec 11th, 2007, 09:25 PM
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Sorry I should have stated from the beginning that I am going for a job--so I would be working full-time for about a year in either place.

I appreciate all the responses, especially regarding how women are treated in Egypt. That's definitely a concern, I tend to prefer socializing with locals as opposed to confining myself to the "expat scene" and it seems like that might be difficult to impossible in Egypt. Is that true? Then again female friends who worked in PP over the summer said they couldn't really socialize w/ Khmer women their age, b/c it's not considered acceptable for them to go out at night unchaperoned etc.

The ability to explore SE Asia is a huge draw for PP, definitely. Thanks joe8888 for the idea of living with a family, that sounds like a great option.

So far PP definitely seems like the way cheaper option, some people have said $1,000/mo. is a good budget for Cairo but unfortunately that's double my budget! But $$ isn't my only factor (though of course it plays a part).

thanks for all the replies!

mp413
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Old Dec 13th, 2007, 09:25 PM
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PP Definitely! My husband and spent 5 weeks in Cairo while he worked on a volunteer project there; we just got back from Siem Reap but didn't get to PP. We were both excited to leave Cairo and felt that it wasn't a moment too soon. This isn't to say, of course, that Cairo doesn't have fabulous sites and pleasant people. It's just an uncomfortable place to spend an extended period of time and, presumably getting worse. The fundamentalists are gaining ground and making things more difficult, especially for women. In my opinion, if you are a woman alone, Cairo for a year will not be an worthwhile endeavor.
On the other hand, Cambodia and all of South East Asia has a totally different vibe and is far more beautiful (Cairo has incredible interest but there's nothing beautiful there).
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Old Dec 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM
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Thanks Mediatorr, I have been hearing also that it's getting worse for women due to fundamentalist groups. Can you give me a sense of what that means on a day-to-day level? I know you have to generally "cover up" but what exactly does that mean? Is it getting to the point where you need a headscarf? Is it acceptable to walk around etc. alone?
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Old Dec 14th, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Another vote for PP, for the same reasons Thursdaysd mentioned.
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Old Dec 14th, 2007, 07:04 AM
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This is second hand, but a friend of mine just returned from Cairo where she was visiting a friend working for an NGO. She said that walking around Cairo she saw remarkably few women, and her friend said that women are increasingly sequestered. This is certainly different from my experience in Cairo more than 15 years ago. She enjoyed her trip, but remarked upon how stressful it was. She had more of a sense of what it is like to live there, traveling with a friend who is living there than you or I would as tourists.

WHile PP wouldn't be my first choice as a place to live in SE Asia, no doubt I'd jump at the opportunity.
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Old Dec 16th, 2007, 07:37 PM
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My first-hand experience is no longer very fresh. It's just that the writing was on the wall. I was able to walk around freely. When I was there, I was only required to really cover up at some of the mosques but I'm fairly certain that it has become more "strict" since then. Speaking with Cairenes, I heard many stories about women being increasingly restricted in their daily lives. I remember noticing that I never saw women taking it easy or looking relaxed in public. Men, on the other hand, were readily able to relax at sidewalk tea spots.
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Old Dec 17th, 2007, 07:52 AM
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I would definitely pick PP.
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Old Dec 17th, 2007, 09:55 PM
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Interesting comments about the changes in Cairo. I lived there for 4 years and went back there in October for a visit. While I found the city more polluted (or maybe I just got used to it when I lived there!) and more crowded (more traffic) - I didn't notice any changes with respect to women.

Granted, I was either in Maadi (one of the more western suburbs), the Khan, the tourist areas (Coptic Cairo, Citadel), or the CityStars mall....but I didn't notice anything really different than when I lived there (2001-2005).

You don't need to completely cover in Cairo (except at a couple of the mosques), but you do need to be respectful. Long skirts or pants, and sleeves that hit below the elbows are best.
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Old Dec 17th, 2007, 11:36 PM
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I really appeciate all these anecdotes. I definitely don't want to personally have to cover up that much. I don't dress provocatively, but in Italy I have been chastised for wearing a regular tank top in churches and that's annoying enough (I mean really, in that heat!). Being respectful is one thing, within reason...

But this matters also because I don't want to be confined to Westerners for my social life, and I worry in a place where women can't even go about their daily business without hassle, they definitely won't be able to make friends w/ Western women (whom men apparently feel able to treat in ways they would never treat locals).
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Old Dec 17th, 2007, 11:52 PM
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Would you be coming into contact with locals thru your job? That, I think, would be your most likely source of meeting people. That type of common interest goes a long way.

We were in Cairo for several years, and while I was quite friendly with many of the locals (as was my husband at his office), socializing with them was different. The Egyptians I ended up socializing with were ones who had either been educated or had lived extensively overseas. With the others, there was just a barrier that was difficult to get through.

While most of our friends were from the US, we were also friends with families from Syria, Lebanon, South Africa, Australia, and Jordan. They were all in Cairo as ex-pats and we got to know them thru their kids (friends with our kids).

As for tank tops in Italy - I think covering shoulders and (possibly) upper arms is standard protocol in almost any religious building. I just carry a lightweight overshirt and make my sons wear the zip-off pants.......and we've never had problems.

Besides the living conditions.......is there anything connected with the job that would make one local preferable to the other?
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Old Dec 18th, 2007, 06:55 AM
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See this thread: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...7&tid=34476605 about dress for Cambodia and Thailand - and for the rest of SEA. You should leave the tank tops at home for PP as well as Cairo.
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Old Dec 18th, 2007, 08:01 PM
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Hi grcxx3, the jobs are pretty much identical, actually. I have some experience in Africa so I was hoping to get some in Asia this time. But other than that superficial difference, both jobs would be great for me.

(Oh and I know the churches rule in Italy is standard, I just personally think it's ridiculous!)

thursdaysd, that's interesting about dress in SE Asia, I wouldn't have guessed it at all. On the whole though it sounds a lot less restrictive over there. At least in the sense that it won't provoke much worse than you get from men in NYC. I'm generally torn on the rspect-comfort debate. I'm all for being respectful, but I am definitely against women having no choice but to cover up lest they get demeaned or worse by men who have no self-control.
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Old Dec 19th, 2007, 06:52 AM
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mp, if you object to dressing respectfully in churches, wats, shrines, mosques, etc, you will have difficulty living in SE Asia and will be run out of Cairo! The issue in SE Asia about shorts, tank tops, etc, is not at all about "women having no choice but to cover up lest they get demeaned or worse by men who have no self-control" but about being respectful of the culture and religion. As mentioned in the thread link from thursdays (and dozens of other threads here about dress in SE Asia), tank tops and shorts are fine for resorts, but not for cities or for religious sites.

As I have said many times before, baring more skin does not make you cooler in hot climes like SE Asia, but simply exposes more skin to be burned by the sun. Covering your skin with light, breathable fabrics will be cooler than bare skin exposed to the sun.
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Old Dec 19th, 2007, 11:22 AM
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Plus, as you can see in the thread I linked, the modest dress code in SEA applies to men as well as women. While Muslim mores prevail in parts of Malaysia and Southern Thailand, elsewhere it's Buddhism.

I don't see how you can claim to "respect" other cultures if you get bent out of shape when someone points out that you are violating local custom. When in Rome...

Have you read "Culture Shock Cambodia" or "Culture Shock Egypt"? Or the sections in the relevant Lonely Planet guides on local customs? If not, it would be a good idea for you to do so before you sign up to live in one of these countries.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2007, 03:09 PM
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Culture shock isn't really an issue for me--I have gotten around I wouldn't say that I have trouble dressing respectfully--I just said I think many of the rules are ridiculous.

I don't have a problem with rules like that when they aren't sexist (when they are, damn stright I get "bent out of shape"!), so it doesn't sound too bad in Cambodia. You are definitely right though, what I hear about Cairo turns me off more and more especially from what I've been hearing about the political situation recently (sounds like women are on tighter and tighter leashes).
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