VRBO Security - Scam Alert

You should send this to Christopher Elliott, the travel ombudsman. If you google him, you'll get his site. I agree that this is a complete rip-off by VRBO.

dntraveler.com Ombudsman your best bet

I warn of this scam run vrbo airbnb craigslist tripadvertizer tc

NEVER wire money ALWAYS pay with CC/Paypal and insuremytrip.com

for fraud...

There are many good ones but the scammers ruin it for everyone

and companies as a rule do not help from personal experience

in the past as a destination expert on TripAdvertizer the

profit motives are so great the mods/owners are fruequently

in on the scam.

Sorry they got the gold mine and u got the shaft

Book a nice cheap hotel boots on the ground betterbidding.com

Go for it anyway do not let the scammers ruin your trip.

The best revenge is living well and having fun...

Ombudsman: Our Indefatigable Mediator of Your Travel Snafus A ... Condé Nast Traveler is committed to reporting on travel fairly and impartially.
www.concierge.com/cntraveler

The other thing I have seen work is call the company

get as far up the food chain in supervisor as u can go

and threaten them with 3 simple words "Small Claims Court"

If they to not comply go ahead and file odds are great

you will prevail as they did breach their contract...

Nader said three words that got him a full refund -- "small claims court." ... If all the Gore voters would have voted to Nader, Nader would have won. And he'd of ...
www.drudge.com/.../nader-fight-back-small-claims-court

Nader: Fight Back in Small Claims Court

After U.S. Airways refused to refund two round-trip tickets that cost $1,380 apiece, Ralph Nader decided to challenge the airline's ticketing rules instead of accepting a credit for a future flight. Finally getting an airline attorney on the phone, Nader said three words that got him a full refund -- "small claims court." He said, "I read a lot of consumer books, and almost all of them completely ignore small claims court. Few people know how simple the forms are, how accommodating the judges are. A lot of them are even open at night."

I'm sorry this happened to you. It seems to me that vbro will want to make good on this unfortunate incident. It's very bad publicity for them not to.

The idea of going to a travel ombudsman is a good one - there are a number who might intervene on your behalf. Do you subscribe to International Travel News? They would be very interested in this, likely even if you are not a subscriber.

I'd also pursue the company. Does vbro self-insure or is there an insurance company involved as well? I'd keep working my way up. If one person says no ask them who has the authority to resolve this problem for you. Keep working your way up. Get the email addresses of the top officers of the company and email them a detailed account.

Last resort is small claims court.

Please keep us informed as to your progress with this. Good luck!

thanks everyone for your great responses thus far. I did contact Christopher Elliot this morning thru his website and he's already responded that he's attempting to contact VRBO on my behalf. Should I try several avenues like this?

If he's on it, I think I'd continue to pursue a remedy with vbro, but not bring in another ombudsman right now.

Please continue to update us. Many people rely on vbro for reliable vacation rentals.

So far, I've received one more response from VRBO.com to my inquiry and complaint. They continue to deny liability in the matter and continue to state that the Carefree Rental Guarantee policy I purchased doesn't apply in my case.
Interestingly, they recommend I take the issue up with the owner of the property who they claim is liable. If I were an owner listing with VRBO, this would be a serious concern. What are owners paying VRBO for?

Interesting. When I searched for VRBO and carefree rental, there are others who are having similar trouble with both being scammed and the carefree rental coverage not being applicable as they don't seem to cover anything re: e-mail security. These issues certainly give cause for concern to both renters and owners.

That is terrible. Interesting that the villa no longer seems to be available through VRBO.

I have stayed at Rumah Cinta and feel horrible that this has happened. AmyChow emailed me directly, after discovering that I had enjoyed the villa. I've rented here 3 times, and have met the owner. It is SUCH a shame that this has happened, and it makes me wary of renting through VRBO going forward.

Amy, I am sad that you have scrapped your trip since your experience is NOT at all typical of Bali. I can understand your feelings however... hopefully you might try again in the future as Bali is a magical place.

I've never rented from VRBO but I have used homelidays and another private website for four Parisian rentals. I don't understand why this is not regarded as an internet scam - so you contacted the property through VRBO and someone had compromised the property owner's email - how could you possibly know that...so horrible - today I found out my ATM card which is never out of my possession was compromised (not online though and thankfully no money was taken) so I understand how vulnerable we all are even when we think we are being careful....

I've continued to correspond with VRBO.com about my situation. They're response is always the same. "Not our fault. Your policy doesn't protect you. Take it up with the owner". I just can't imagine how they cannot provide tighter controls on internet/email communication since they're entire business model is based on this. And then to lure people into a false sense of security by advertising and selling insurance policies called "Carefree Rental Guarantee" and highlighting that it protects against "internet fraud". I very much believe that the true owner of the home is/was unaware that her email had been hacked. On Trip Advisor I found more posts of this EXACT situation from 2010. There was a breach in security in the HomeAway UK site. The theory there was that it wasn't the owner's email that had been hacked but actually the Homeaway site that had been compromised and the scammers were actually entering the Homeaway site and changing contact info. How could Homeaway and VRBO not address either scenario with tighter controls? Even Facebook has better security. Lesson learned though- never wire money and never believe an insurance policy will actually protect you.

Also, VRBO.com told me that they have removed the owner's listings (she has 3) until they are able to locate her and resolve the issue. This is their standard protocol. They actually suggested that I can contact her about a rental once the listing reappears. Sure- that sounds like a great idea.

Amy, this is AWFUL!! Something similar happened recently to my son. Until then, i too was a "Trusting VRBO VIRGIN" as neither I nor family member had experienced a problem.

Qwovadis, have i told you yet that i LOVE your simple, concise, and immensely helpful feedback all over Fodors Forums? THANK YOU!

dntraveler.com is a non working site

So.. Which internet fraud DOES the insurance policy cover if not the one you experienced? Can they tell you THAT in writing?

Hi Amy,

>They continue to deny liability in the matter and continue to state that the Carefree Rental Guarantee policy I purchased doesn't apply in my case. <

I'm not an attorney, but I've read their rental agreement.

As far as I can see, it isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.

"...any part of an actual or potential transaction between a traveler and a member, including the quality, safety or legality of the properties advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings (including the content thereof or any property or guest book review), the ability of members to rent a vacation property or the ability of travelers to pay for vacation rental properties are solely the responsibility of each user. ...

All property listings on the Site are submitted by the member (who may be the owner or a property manager or agent of the owner) and are the sole responsibility of the member, and we specifically disclaim any and all liability arising from the alleged accuracy of the listings, property reviews, guest book entries, or any alleged breaches of contract on a member's part. ...

IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH THE SITE, YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY PART OF THE TERMS, OR HAVE ANY OTHER DISPUTE OR CLAIM WITH OR AGAINST US OR ANOTHER USER OF THE SITE WITH RESPECT TO THESE TERMS OR THE SITE, THEN YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY AGAINST US IS TO DISCONTINUE USING THE SITE. IN ALL EVENTS, OUR LIABILITY, AND THE LIABILITY OF ANY MEMBER OF THE HOMEAWAY GROUP, TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SITE IS LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF (A) THE AMOUNT OF FEES YOU PAY TO US IN THE TWELVE MONTHS PRIOR TO THE ACTION GIVING RISE TO LIABILITY OR (B) $100.00 IN THE AGGREGATE FOR ALL CLAIMS".

I would definitely stay away from these guys.

If in fact it is the owner's fault, maybe she would allow you to stay in the condo for "free" as you already paid her ersatz representative the condo fee. This is one of the reasons I have never rented from VRBO or any site like it. There is too much room for fraud.

ShelleyK- that was actually a suggestion by a VRBO.com representative. However, as far as I know, there's been no contact with the actual owner. No emails or phone calls. I don't know why. The real owner may be in her Bali home and unaware of the situation (which seems strange to be COMPLETELY off the grid) and/or she may be consciously staying away from the whole mess. I would consider that option for sure since I've already paid the money out.

My whole issue with this Carefree Rental Guarantee nonsense is that it is deceptive marketing by HomeAway. The option to purchase such a protection plan gave me comfort in moving forward on VRBO.com and this transaction. It clearly states protection from "INTERNET FRAUD". At the least, they should more clearly define what that means for the average consumer who may have not gone to law school. In an email reply to Christopher Elliott about my case, they state that the policy only covers what "VRBO can control or influence".

Sorry this happened to you Amy and hope you can get this resolved in your favor. Thank you for bringing this vrbo.com scam to light. To think I was actually considering using them in the future.....never.

Aloha!

I have used VRBO in the past more than once successfully. This is a wake-up call however, not just about the deceptive practices (more below), but just about the possibilities for fraud. I always knew there was a possibility that people would post rentals that didn't really exist, take your money and run. Or the place would exist but not be as advertised. Or they'd rent the same place twice for the same dates. I'm guessing all of those things would be covered by the guarantee.

What never occurred to me is that someone could "hijack" someone else's legitimate rental, hack their email, get your money and really have nothing whatsoever to do with the rental in the first place. And that is what's not covered, apparently, by the guarantee.

I haven't read the guarantee, but what Ira posted above is not relevant since that's the terms of the rental agreement, which says they're not liable for anything. Well, they're not, they're just a website where owners can find renters, they don't vet anything as far as I know. However, they offer the guarantee (which I think you pay extra for?) and that's supposed to give you extra protection. The question is from what. As I said above, there's fraud by the owner, which presumably they will cover, and fraud by "others" which they're saying is excluded from coverage. I too would like to see the definition of Internet fraud because if it doesn't specifically exclude "third-party fraud" , I think you'd have a good case in small-claims court. (I am an attorney BTW)

Here are excerpts from the policy I purchased.

Plan Purchased: Carefree Rental Guarantee
Payments protected against:
•Internet Fraud
•Material Misrepresentation
•Wrongful Denial of Entry
•Wrongful Deposit Loss
------------------------------------------------------------------
Amount Paid: $40.00

“Internet Fraud” is defined as a deposit or payment by a Registered Traveler for a vacation rental
that is listed on a HomeAway Site where such listing is subsequently determined to be, in HomeAway’s reasonable discretion, fictitious or illegitimate in that the vacation rental property (i) does not exist, or (ii) was advertised by the advertiser with the intention of defrauding travelers and with the general aim of making the victim believe in the existence of a non-existent rental property

The term “Wrongful Denial of Entry” means that a Registered Traveler has made a deposit (if
required) and full payment to a property owner or manager for a rental property that is listed on a
HomeAway Site but (i) the Registered Traveler is intentionally and wrongfully denied access to the subject property at the start of or during the rental term as the result of the intentional and wrongful act of the property owner or manager, and (ii) the Registered Traveler’s deposit and/or payment (or appropriate portion thereof) is not refunded and is wrongfully withheld by the property owner or manager. Examples under this category of protection include (i) where the subject property is in foreclosure or the property owner or manager is in bankruptcy, in either case resulting in the Registered Traveler being denied access to the subject property; and (ii) the property owner or manager has “double booked” the subject property to two or more travelers."

And here's the coup de grace of the policy as it relates to my situation:
This is at the bottom of a long list of scenarios NOT covered by the policy.
"Any loss of funds that is caused by the takeover or “phish” of a property owner’s or manager’s email account or the property owner’s or manager’s account on a HomeAway site."

It's possible that had I gone to Bali and attempted to enter this property only to find another renter or the owner there that I would be covered under "Wrongful Denial of Entry". The 'act' may not be intentional but it is 'wrongful'.

I continue to believe that despite the semantics of the language, the advertisement of the policy by Homeaway is in itself, deceptive. You go for it because it generally identifies the concerns that the average renter has and wants protection for. In the process of renting a property, it's unlikely that you're going to pay your lawyer to opine on the language of the document before you move forward with the rental. AND if they reference 'phish' in the policy, then they've encountered it before and have not taken appropriate action to protect renters. They probably don't want to list the steps to take to avoid this kind of scam for fear it will scare average renters from using VRBO.com at all.

Amy, I "feel for you" and as I said, I'd think twice before signing up for a rental. But all insurance policies have exceptions, and in this case, this is not really something VRBO can protect against, is it? As for the penultimate paragraph in your most recent post, actually, no, because the denial of entry wouldn't have been "wrongful" because the owner never rented the place to you in the first place - if she had, then the insurance would have protected you. I'm afraid you're out of luck here, although I agree the advertising for the insurance ("carefree" - sure it is!) is at least the very least deceptive (does it have an asterisk or something that says "subject to exceptions" - at least then the buyer would be on notice that the coverage is not unlimited?)

so, is there any way to protect oneself against a similar situation when trying to rent a flat through a website?

Calinurse: I thin it should be cntraveler.com. Conde nast traveler

http://www.concierge.com/cntraveler/

Does it seem odd that the true owner of the property has never tried to contact me? I've left a couple voice mail messages and sent emails to 3 separate accounts that I was able to find.

Amy... how much did you send them?

I'm sorry, that wasn't clear - I meant to ask how much money do you think you've lost out of this lousy situation?

several thousand. gone. poof.

gulp.

How frustrating this must be. There's no-one to grab hold of and murder.

dogster -it's maddening! Although I've really appreciated the input from Fodorites on the subject. I was going to scrap the trip altogether but now I'm thinking I will resume plans. I need to disconnect myself from this mess and just focus on planning a different Bali experience. Who knows, maybe it will work out even better than my original plan.

<<<Who knows, maybe it will work out even better than my original plan.>>>

I'd be furious, frustrated, and worse if this had happened to me. But the above, that's the spirit!

Yes, I hope you can still go and get past the fraud/ripoff horror.....good luck!

Yes, unfortunately the only way forward is to disconnect, change channels and look for the creative alternative. I suspect, like you, that this is the key to a door.

I was associating Bali with the scam but then realized I need to disconnect the 2. The scammers are probably no where near Bali and I'm still holding out hope (although diminished somewhat) that the real owner of Rumah Cinta is completely unaware that this happened. No amount of worry (and insomnia) is going to change the outcome.
I had been saving money for a long time to make this trip happen. Maybe now with less money to spend I'll actually get closer to the 'real' Bali and have an even better experience than originally planned. I love this Forum. Eliminates the need for a therapist (which I can now no longer afford! ha!)

Its very possible the "missing" owner of the house is in on the scam. I wouldn't be surprised if the house was already booked on your dates when you did the transfer. Very sorry to hear about this, but do ask for assistance as recommended by others.

Amy, I am so sorry this happened to you. I also very much appreciate your sharing the experience.

Although VRBO's terms of service makes it pretty clear that VRBO is an advertising site only, and not a 'rental management' site, it is inexcusable for them to sell 'insurance' policies, when their terms for membership on their site are so lax whilst their terms for insurance claims are so rigourous. Numerous frauds have occurred with actual existing rental properties, and VRBO should be well aware of this by now

I'm no lawyer, but this seems to fall under the 'property exists, but not as described' scenario. What is not as described is the property owner and their email and phone number and other contact details, including payment details. Why this information is incorrect (email hacked, whatever) should be no concern of you, the renter/victim. I surmise (again, as a lay person) that you have a case, but alas, the cost of pursuing it is going to be likely prohibitive. Contact Christopher Eliot, and hope for the best.

do we know if this house actually exists as a rental or is just a photo lifted from some real estate agent's page? I also think the "owner" is in on it.

Amerena, a poster toward the top of the thread has stayed at this property before, so we do know it exists and that is has been successfully rented through vbro previously. For me, this argues that the owner isn't the scammer, but one never knows.

I agree with Kathie, but besides that, an insurance picy only covers what it covers, and such things as email hacking were expressly excluded. Just because Sue thinks VRBO should cover it, it's clear they don't. Just ask a flood victim sometime what is defined in the insurance industry as "flood" and what isn't.

Amy thanks for the heads up on VRBO--sorry about your being scammed for so much money. I wouldn't give up on your Bali trip though--I went for a month this past January and it was great--I only had reservations for the first two nights--it is easy to get accomodations--I used Agoda.com and cross checked with Trip Advisor. But if you want to stay in Ubud--there are plenty of places right on Monkey Road. I stayed for a week at the Cinta Grill, very reasonable, very private and right in the thick of things--you can look it up on Trip Advisor if you want more information. But there are lots of places, less or more high end--clean, simple and nice to stay--either on Monkey Road or slightly off the main road that are in the rice paddies. Accomodations are very reasonable as is the food. Really, really great trip--I recommend highly.

Not sure if this has been addressed but how did the owner prove his email was hacked?

Update: the real owner of the property in Ubud is now involved. She was unaware that this took place and has been outstanding. She's going to let me stay in her place anyway and has been just great about it. HomeAway has assisted in the resolution. I am so relieved. However, there is still someone out there with a holidayrentalvillas07@live.com email address that is ripping people off -both renters AND owners. Hopefully VRBO will be able to use their corporate power to track them down.

woo hoo.
Faith in human nature restored.

How wonderful! Enjoy your trip!

what good news! This has been such an eye opener though.

I'm so glad to hear that your situation has been resolved. And I'm glad to hear that HomeAway helped out with this even though they didn't step up in the way most of us thought they should.

Have a wonderful trip to Bali. It is really a magical place!

I've been following along because I've done a number of vacation rentals, some through VRBO, and never considered the type of problem you had was even a possibility.

I was extremely disappointed by VRBO's response regarding the insurance you bought from them. I agree that it appears misleading in the coverage and would have also thought your situation should have been covered.

What stuns me the the most however, is that the owner is going to let you stay there for free! That's just wonderful. I hope you have a fantastic time in Bali. And I hope they catch whoever is doing this scam!

I'm delighted the owner has done the right thing, but my faith in VRBO is gone. How can anyone spend thousands of dollars knowing that they may lose it all and have no legal recourse? And that VRBO's own insurance policy will be worthless?

Great news, Amy!! Congratulations.
But like other, my naive trust in VRBO rental sis gone because of stories like yours, and what my son is going through after his Oahu VRBO experience.

Don't mean to be dark, but who you ASSUME is the real owner is going to let you stay there. I guess you really won't know until you get there.

How do any of us know, really, who is behind the ads and telephone numbers/emails?

Wow! Had not followed this initial post (but am glad to hear of outcome if true). I was just getting ready to look at VRBO for a cottage in Provence or Scotland; have used VRBO successfully on several previous occasions including Paris.

But I had a scam-attempt similar to Amy's on Craig's List while trying to rent a home long-term. The scammer actually lifted property description and photos from a real estate ad, then listed the "rental" on CL at a price under the market. It sounded too good to be true so I asked someone in that area to do a driveby & they saw the real estate for sale sign. Long story short, in the next 2 weeks I had 2 nearly identical responses to other property rental listings. Nearly identical as in, the email wording was exactly the same except that in 1 scam the "owner" had decided to go into missionary work, & in 1 of the others had gotten a once-in-a-lifetime job offer. In both case they had left the house suddenly and had their real estate rental arrangements fall thru, causing them to resort to CL. One of them even used a deceased person's valid Yahoo email account, which Yahoo closed down after my messages to them about the matter.

I hope you have a great trip to magical Bali, Amy!!

wow - another cautionary tale - thanks for posting, CaminoKath.

My sister has used VBRO a number of times for a house in Hawaii several times and for apartments in Europe. I looked at a couple of apartments in Bangkok on their site. But I have to admit I'd do a lot more due diligence before I booked though them.

Believe it or not, but I know who the owner of this place was because we rented the same place and had a number of problems. Please let me know if you would like more information.

A shame the OP hasn´t posted back with the outcome of the Bali offer at the discussed apartment.

Amy, 2 weeks ago I felt a victim of the same scam and lost $XXXX.

Read my full story here:
http://community.homeaway.com/message/12844

We are already a group of 10 victims and we are building a case to fight HomeAway (the company behind VRBO and other 31 vacation rental web sites).

You have probably moved on, but there are more people continue being hurt and HomeAway/VRBO still doesn't do anything.

Please contact me at VictimOfRentalFraud@gmail.com to join the group.

Hello everyone,

I am also a victim of this type of rental scam from VRBO (just last week). I have been a faithful user of renting properties through VRBO for quite some time now without any problems, and since the site provides a sort of false security, I guess you can say that honestly a scam of this proportion never really ever entered my mind as being possible. Well, boy was I wrong, not to mention stupid and gullible, for thinking that a rental website would ensure the safety and security of its users!

To make a very long story short, I fell victim to this fraud when I was under the impression that I was renting a nice property in Stowe, Vermont for the long New Year's weekend with a group of friends. I assumed that I was dealing with the owner of the property when the transaction took place, I had no reason to believe that this person was not the actual owner...the e-mails were coming directly from the automatic response header from the VRBO website, and everything checked out and I did my research on wire transfers and assumed that it was OK since there are numberous international properties on the site, hence international owners (which I have dealt with before). Nevertheless, once the transfer was made (still had a weird feeling about it but decided to ignore) - I was doing more research and found the home on several web sites, one in particular had a Vermont phone # which I decided to call. Well, it turned out to be the Real owner, a local woman, and she was just as surprised and horrified as I was to find out that we were both scammed. We tried to recall and stop the transfer payment from going through immediately (since we did it on a Saturday from our bank, the money wasn't going to "go through" until Monday morning and we were hoping to somehow stop this still) but it was all in vain. Once the transfer is sent, thats it - the money is gone and virtually untraceable and unrefundable. I even called the overseas bank to alert of the fraud but they did nothing.... I lost 2K and am absolutley furious and still in shock as to how this could have happened to me. I am doing everything in my power to try to fight this, someone has to. Moral of story- always trust your intuition and gut feeling, if it seems "weird and off somehow" believe it and don't risk the deal. I am kicking myself each and everyday, its such a shame.

We were just scammed by a VRBO property manager which called itself "Holiday Rentals". "Holiday Rentals' had hacked into a VRBO property manager site in Hawaii. EVERYTHING looked legitimate. We corresponded via e-mail. They sent us a contract, which we signed. We were asked to wire money, which we had done before with a VRBO property site in England. Two days before our Christmas vacation to Hawaii, we contacted Holiday Rentals for specific housing instructions and were told by that e-mail address that "the booking is cancel (sic)". What?!! We track down the phone number of the property manager in Oahu, only to be informed that they have no record of our rental and that we have been scammed by someone outside of the U.S. Thousands of dollars lost, no place to stay, yet our family flies to Hawaii in two days. DO NOT WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE EVER, AND BE CAUTIOUS OF ANY DEALINGS WITH VRBO. Lesson learned.

Hmmm... I notice that the last three posters are all one-time posters. What to make of that? Unclear, but their posts don't hold as much weight with me as the OP's post. Also, the caution to not wire money to anyone, ever, eliminates quite a number of legitimate travel options.

Kathie, we are first timers because we have never been scammed before with VRBO. We have used VRBO in the past five years for accommodations in Hawaii, Vermont, New York and England. This is the first time we EVER have been scammed. We are out over $6000 dollars for our Christmas vacation for my active duty military family with our four small children and extended family members. We now have 7 airline tickets and NO WHERE to stay. We HAD wired money before and dealt with overseas rental property managers with no issues. But now we have been burned big time. AND that is why we said, "DO NOT WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE EVER". Perhaps we should amend to..." before communicating with them directly over the phone."
Merry Christmas, Kathie.

I am very sorry for your misfortune, kingsbeggars. I do hope you are able to find some recourse at this late date so you can salvage your vacation.

HA has ruined VRBO. Not only are us owners mad but likewise the traveler. As an owner Ive tried to ask for some help from Christopher Elliott. The first time I heard about this was from victomofrentalfraud on the HA community website. This is honestly a travesty to both the owner and the Traveler. I read where christopher elliott spoke with the owner of HA Karl Sheppard. His quote was that they are only the middleman to the transaction. However if you read the terms it clearly states they are not a party to any transaction. If they are not a party to a transaction. How dare you suspend the members listing until they make good on restitution. VRBO/HA better start making it safe for your member as well as the Renter. I now have a clause under my account that says "We do not accept wire transfers. This is not a valid transaction for my property." My first listing to go is with HA until they start listening to both the owners and travelers. I do hope you travelers get together and sue HA. Good Luck.

If VRBO is advertising "Carefree Rental Guarantee", they may also be guilty of false advertising. You should really have your attorney give them a call, write them a letter, because if you are defrauded over the internet, and you paid your premiums, you should be paid your losses, no questions asked. Insurance companies also do actuarial studies as to how many people will contact an attorney about their claim. And many people wonder how the insurance companies make so much money! Sheesh!

Since December first, we have had 5 new, one-time posters keeping this thread active. I'd love to know if these are 5 different people who have had similar experiences or one or two who keep adding a screen name and a new post. I would hope that anyone who has had this difficulty with VBRO would contact an attorney.

We are already a group of 10 victims and we are building a case to fight HomeAway (the company behind VRBO and other 31 vacation rental web sites)...

There's your answer Kathie. I'd say there's a bit of a campaign going on - but I suspect these are people with a real grievance waging cyber-war any way they can.

I assume it'll continue...

This is really sad for VRBO owners who are honest and trying to make a living. This kind of publicity hurts them.
What horrible experiences all you are going through. We who love to travel enjoy the planning-then to have the rug pulled out from you. A very sad situation-Chris

Very scary. Sorry for all of you. We use VRBO often - in fact we're in a fabulous Mexican villa at the moment. Just curious: Did any of you speak to the "owners" on the phone before sending money?

I'm curious too about whether phone calls were made. You can tell so much more from a person's voice and demeanor than you can fron an anonymous email. We've used VRBO successfully, and have always made phone contact (us with them and them with us)

We are vacation rental owners and I feel compelled to give some insight about our side of fence.

1) We do a little happy dance every time a new inquiry comes in from VRBO. It is by far the biggest and highest quality referrer for us. Love 'em or hate 'em - we'd be out of business w/o VRBO.
2) We do our best to follow up immediately by phone and by email
3) We celebrate when we get a commitment to rent
4) We cry when people bail out or cancel.
5) We have never asked for a wire transfer. We deal with personal checks mostly and Paypal as a backup.
6) Trust goes both ways. We run the risk of people showing up and trashing the house or executing a charge back. We worry about this every time.
7) We are heartbroken when people don't write anything in the guestbook.

The thing is, the vacation rental business is very competitive and it is hard to attract paying customers. We have a real mortgage to pay and we provide a great product and we really really want to keep it full.

I'm guessing that most other vacation rental owners would be described similarly. So here's my advice. If your owner is weird, aloof, unavailable by phone, slow to respond, makes strange requests (i.e. wire transfer in full as only payment option but can't ever talk on the phone) - MOVE ON.

FWIW - we're listed on Homeaway, vacationrentals.com, tripadvisor, flipkey, alwaysonvacation, and Facebook. We heard that Craigslist was good too, but we only got weirdos, phishers, and inquiries that didn't add up quite right. We also tried AirBnB, but we canceled b/c their business model didn't work for us. I think it's a good idea to cross check on other sites to make sure the contact info is consistent or to find other reviews.

As a "buyer" of other people's vacation homes on VRBO, I could not agree more with bellingham's post, in particular the penultimate paragraph. I remember once when we were looking for a rental in Park City. I was in Costco and my phone rang. It was one of the owners I had contacted - she was calling to talk, and ultimately her rental didn't work out, but we had a great conversation, and she was very helpful in regards to where in Park City to look, etc. Believe me, no scammer would have called to have that conversation with me!

I don't have anything to add about VRBO but I would like to comment on the use of wire transfers. In Indonesia/Bali and other parts of Southeast Asia, wire transfers -- and cash -- are the most common, accepted and prefered means of payment.

Checks, especially if written on a foreign bank account, are cumbersome and slow to process. Even banks don't like them.

I think it's like telephones -- Indonesia completely skipped the landline phase and went directly to cellphones. Same for finance: they've gone from the bag full of Rupiah notes to the electronic transfer. It's simple, clean, efficient and clearly documented.

A request for a wire transfer doesn't automatically mean it's a scam. As marmot says, many times a wire transfer is the best way to pay for something in SE Asia. I've used them a number of times, to Sri Lanka, to India, to Thailand (for Burma) for example. My sister, who often uses VBRO, has used wire transfers to pay for apartments in Italy and France.

In the US, a request for a wire transfer is unusual, in other parts of the world it is very common.

Interesting stories, my parents, myself and friends have all used VRBO for various condos around the globe and have been mostly satisfied. That said, I do my research diligently and always pay by Credit Card. I've had good luck in Paris and London but there were some dodgy listings in Spain, so I went with a rental firm.

I have some dodgy emails from owners and if something doesn't sound right or they try and change the price or the apartment, I cut and run. That being said I still love apartments and aparthotels.

Hi Kathie, to answer your post "I'd love to know if these are 5 different people who have had similar experiences or one or two who keep adding a screen name and a new post."

All the reports are from different people. I was the first who posted my story on HomeAway forum back in November 2011 and from there many other victims of this scam contacted me. Some of them posted their stories here, because I sent them this link.

As of now, I personally got in touch with over 30 other victims of this scam. Each one of them tried renting different properties in US and Europe and got scammed in exactly the same way, like Amy Chow.

In the beginning of January HomeAway finally admitted this is scam is not one-time instances, but rather an organized and technologically advanced scam targeting vacation rentals web sites. HA finally start sending alerts to renters and property owners about it and offering protection tips. Hard to say yet how effective this would be.

Btw, I totally believe that most of the property owners advertising their listing are honest people. Too bad that the marketplace created by HomeAway if not a safe place to do the business.

Thanks for the follow-up info, Victim. Is HomeAway going to reimburse people who purchased the insurance? The insurance was supposed to cover fraud...

Nope, no reimbursement, because until January 2012 their insurance didn't cover phishing internet fraud. I think they started doing it now, but it is hard to get a confirmation from them.

Back in November, when I notified HomeAway Trust and Security about this scam, here is the reposponse I got:

Dear VictimOfRentalFraud,
Let me start by helping to clarify what transpired with your booking. Our members indicate a direct or personal email address for us to route their VRBO.com inquiries to. When you as a traveler fill out the inquiry form on a specific property listing, our system sends that inquiry to the email address the advertiser indicates. We do not have any control over our members’ “personal” email accounts; it is the clear responsibility of each advertiser to safeguard and monitor their own email accounts. This was not a security breach on the VRBO site, but a compromise of the advertiser’s personal email address. As soon as we learn of this type of compromise we have a secure process by which we work closely with the member and require them to apply a new email address (among other attributes, just to be safe) to their VRBO account. So please understand that the reason we are unable to accept liability in this situation is because the security of an individual’s email address is simply not within our control.
Again, it is ultimately the member’s responsibility to safeguard their own email address. Any traveler losses resulting from the phish of their email address is also the responsibility of the member, and we have explained this in detail to the member as well as suspended their listing with us until such agreement has been met. Again, it is ultimately the member’s responsibility to safeguard their own email address. Any traveler losses resulting from the phish of their email address is also the responsibility of the member, and we have explained this in detail to the member as well as suspended their listings.
We can truly understand how upsetting this matter has been for you and as our Co-Founder Carl Shepard explained in an email to you "we are quite limited in what we can do when one of our advertisers either intentionally or unintentionally allows his email to be intercepted by a third party".

I'm not impressed with their response, and I'm betting you aren't either.

Interesting. Although we were not scammed on payment, we were scammed with a filthy rental full of bugs (after full payment of course). Obviously not the fault of vrbo at this point, so we made the most of the vacation, but when we gave a zero review to the owner, his response was full of complete lies. After vrbo posted the owner's response, we filed a complaint providing owner emails and pictures that proved he was lying. vrbo's response was "Just as we will not investigate the accuracy of reviews, we will not investigate the accuracy of Owner Responses." We were not asking for them to investigate, only to not allow the owner's false response. We provided emails from the owner that were in direct contradiction with his response. Apparently anything goes with vrbo, and even when provided with evidence they will continue to knowingly publish factually incorrect information. Not quite the same situation as this forum, but the same lessons learned. This owner will continue to change booking dates after payment, and the "nicest condo in Maui" will be filthy and full of bugs. We will never use vrbo again.

The same thing happened to us with internet phishing last May. We had rented a place in the south of France with friends. We purchased the Carefree insurance and 2 days later told by Carefree that we had been phished and there was nothing they could do, $6400.00 lost. After a couple of letters and a few contentious phone calls with the CEO, they offered us $2000.00 last Sept. We said no. Our intention was to go to small claims court. 1/6/12 we received an apology letter from VRBO stating that our persistence had made them review their policies and that we were right - they were not protecting their customers, so they changed their policy and they now cover internet phishing as internet fraud. AND THEY REFUNDED OUR $6400.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have had this happen to you, contact the company ASAP!

I see the campaign continues. Six months now. No end in sight.

But then, if this had happened to me, I wouldn't stop till hell froze over. Congratulations susansb.

Wow, susansb, you finally got the response all of you should have gotten at the beginning. Congratulations to you!

Are we protected when paying by credit card? Way harder for scammers to get a Visa account and funds are held for 20+ days.

I WOULD NEVER WIRE MONEY NEVER.

Getting bored with this.

Worthy or not, this campaign is simply using Fodor's as a publicity tool. It's really rather clever - and most certainly systematically organised. They wait a few weeks, till the post has dropped off the first page, then strike again, taking it in turns to deliver the goods. Apart from the OP, the complainants are always first time posters who dump, then go - never to be seen again.

Is that what this forum is for?

Given the relentless inaction of any moderators, I can only assume it is. Perhaps it's time for one of this cute little 'this topic is closed to further reples' tags - 'cos without one, this topic is still going to be here in another six months.

calgary, you are more protected using a credit card as the credit card company will refund your money if the "goods" are not delivered. But your idea that "Way harder for scammers to get a Visa account and funds are held for 20+ days" makes no sense at all. And if you would never wire money ever, there are a lot of places in the world you will be unable to go.

Dogster, I'd love to see some of the previous one-time posters on this thread come back and tell us VBRO refunded their money.