Trip including Cambodia, laos, Bangkok-how much time in each?
Jun 23rd, 2009, 12:54 PM
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Trip including Cambodia, laos, Bangkok-how much time in each?
I was lucky to bag frequent flier tickets, from Kansas City into Phnom Penh Feb. 27 and out of Bangkok March 14, 2010. Now I have to fill in the trip. I was planning 3 nights PNH, 5 nights REP. I'd like to go to Laos then, maybe to LP for 2 or 3 nights, then to BKK for 3 nights. Or should I also go to VT and get to BKK only to fly home? I've been to BKK twice, 12 years ago. Never been to Cambodia or Laos. I'd use a Discovery Pass to fly amongst the locations. As I was stranded in Phuket last Nov. for 6 days due to the BKK closure, I'm hesitant to risk getting stuck in Thailand again. Is this too ambitious? What do you all think?
Jun 23rd, 2009, 01:18 PM
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I think you need at least 3-4 nights in LP and cut back on REP unless you are totally into temples. 3 full days is fine for REP in my opinion.
Bangkok is like home away from home for many of us and you may feel the same way, so 3 nights there sounds good.
Bangkok is like home away from home for many of us and you may feel the same way, so 3 nights there sounds good.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 01:53 PM
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I'd cut PNH to 2 nights, REP to 4 nights (though it pains me, given how much I loved it), up LP 4 nights, the rest in Bangkok. I think that's a good balance. I don't think that's too much, though it's a full schedule.
I'm headed for Bangkok in November, and I haven't worried at all about a BKK closure. The events of Nov 2008 were unique, and given the popular reaction (within Thailand) I would not expect them to be repeated.
I'm headed for Bangkok in November, and I haven't worried at all about a BKK closure. The events of Nov 2008 were unique, and given the popular reaction (within Thailand) I would not expect them to be repeated.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 04:54 PM
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Three nights in Siem Reap is really enough unlss you are a total wat freak. You really do get "templed out". I would spend 3 nights in Luang Prabang and two in Vientiane. There is a lot to see and do in Vientiane and it would be a shame to miss it.
No one can predict what will happen in Thailand. I doubt that the airpiorts will be hijacked again though.
No one can predict what will happen in Thailand. I doubt that the airpiorts will be hijacked again though.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 06:05 PM
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You get templed out, apparently, VB. That doesn't mean that susiean will.
Dawn Rooney, who is one of the experts on Angkor maintains that it takes three full days to see just the major temples. If you are really interested in them, you'll need more time. We spent a week and would have enjoyed even more time there. Given that susiean originally scheduled 5 nights in SIem Reap, I would assume she has done her research and knows she's interested in the temples at Angkor.
Dawn Rooney, who is one of the experts on Angkor maintains that it takes three full days to see just the major temples. If you are really interested in them, you'll need more time. We spent a week and would have enjoyed even more time there. Given that susiean originally scheduled 5 nights in SIem Reap, I would assume she has done her research and knows she's interested in the temples at Angkor.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 09:08 PM
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If susiean decides to view the temples for 4 days. She will have to buy 2 passes - a three day one and a one day one. there is no such thing as a 4 day pass. that will be quite expensive for minimal gain. there is so much else to see in SEA. Afaiac you can easily do it in 2 days. 3 is redundant and 34 excessive. However if you are writing a dissertation ion the architectural structure of the wats or an afficionado of Khmer architecture, you might disagree.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 09:44 PM
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Jun 23rd, 2009, 10:41 PM
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"Quite expensive for a minimal gain" - how cheap can one get? A one day pass is $20, a three day pass is $40 and a seven day pass is $60. So for an additional $20 you can spend four - seven days in Angkor, might be expensive for some but well worth it IMO.
Jun 24th, 2009, 12:29 PM
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I have a guide lined up for REP, John Teng. We will arrive 10:15am the first day. His suggested plan that incorporates a 3 day temple pass is as follows:
Day 1 on 2nd March: Pick up from Siem Reap International Airport upon arrival by private an English speaking driver, then transfer to check in the hotel in Siem Reap Town. When you are at the airport please seek for your name on a sign.
Driver/Toyota Camry costs US$ 7 for the pick up from the airport. You will have time to relax because you will have many days for touring.
Day 2 on 3rd March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 5:20 AM.Early morning , enjoy a sunrise tour of Angkor Wat with great photographing opportunities. Return to your hotel for breakfast.
Breakfast in the hotel.
AM: Visit ANGKOR THOM (The big city ) was built from 1180-1220 AD by the great King Jayavarman VII dedicated to Buddhism. There are several monuments in it such as: South Gate of Angkor Thom , Bayon, Baphoun, Phimeanakas, Preah Palilay, Elephant and Leper King Terrace and then continue to visit Ta Prohm Temple ( Tomb Raider temple with many gigantic roots of the trees on the temple' s structure ).
PM: Spend the full afternoon to explore the World Seventh Wonder of Angkor Wat (The holy city which is the biggest Hindu temple in Cambodia, was built by King Suryavarman II in early 12th century dedicated to Vishnu God. ( Sunset at Angkor Wat).
Dinner with Traditional Dancing Show at the local restaurant
0vernight at the hotel
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry / sunrise is US$ 70.
Day 3 on 4th March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 8:00 AM..
AM : Visit an ancient Hindu temple at the countryside, BANTEAY SREY (citadel of women, 35Km north of Siem Reap), was built from 968-1001 AD, is dedicated to Shiva God. In Cambodia, it is a unique pink sandstone temple which has most beautiful deep carvings. Then continue to visit Landmine Museum & East Mebon Temple.
PM : Visit Preah Khan ( an extensive 56-hectares Buddhist complex where King Jayavarman VII finally defeated the Cham warriors ).
* Sunset at Phnom Bakheng ( on a top of mountain ) with Angkor Wat scenery.
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 75.
Day 4 on 5th March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 8:00 AM..
AM: Taking private boat ride visiting daily life of local people on Floating Village of the biggest fresh water lake in South East Asia named Tonle Sap
Lake. On the way back, enjoy City Tours: Market, Shopping, Artisan Angkor Art School,etc
Lunch at the local restaurant
PM : Visit " Rolous Group" (Hinduism, 9th century): Preah Ko, Lo Lei & Bakong. "
Dinner at the local restaurant
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 60.
Day 5 on 6th March: ( Adventure trip for a full day trip ).
- Beng Mealea ( Beng Mealea temple was built in the 12 cetury, the layout and style of Beng Mealea is very similar to Angkor Wat. Its current state, however, is dominated by jungle. Trees have grown out of the towers and vines entangle columns. Lintels and others building blocks lay around in a tumble and rquire visitors to climd up and down as they approach the completely collapsed central towers. This is how the early expeditions must have found the temples of Angkor.... )
- Koh Ker ( After the Khmer empire had been established in the Angkor area (Roluos), Jayavarman IV moved the capital in 928 almost 100km northeast to Koh Ker. Here a vast number of temples were built under his reign, until his successor returned to the Angkor area about twenty years later.
The Koh Ker site is dominated by Prasat Thom, a 35 meter tall temple mountain raising high above the plain and the surrounding forest. Great views await the visitor at the end of an adventurous climb. Garuda carved into the stone blocks, still guard the very top, although they are partially covered
now. Across the site of Koh Ker there are many prasat or tower sanctuaries. A couple still feature an enormous linga on a yoni that provides space for several people. The outlet for the water that was sanctified by running it over the linga can be seen in the outside wall of one of them. In other cases, three prasat stand next to each other, dedicated to Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. Most of them are surrounded by libraries and enclosures, many also had moats. At that time, the roofs were still made of wood. Today, only the holes for the beams remain in the stone structures. The site is still 3 hours away from Siemreap, the area has been demined only recently and basic visitors' facilities are just being built. This makes Koh Ker very attractive for anyone who would like to experience lonely temples partially overgrown by the forest and inhabited only by birds, calling to
each other from the trees. )
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 150.
Day 6 on 7th March: You will be free for your own leisure until the transfer the airport for the departure. It costs US$ 7 by an English speaking driver.
- Price for tour from Day 1-Day 6 in the Angkor area is US$ 369 as total for 2 people. Price quoted is the net cost ( i.e included taxes, services, driver, tour guide, petrol, car, parking fees, sunrise, remote temple like in the itineray and pick up /transfer to the airport ). For the other expenditures, you have to pay for by yourself such as tickets to visit the temples of Angkor, boat trip, food, drinks...).
If we fly to LP next the flight is at 12:55pm.
How's this sound for a SR plan?
Susie
Day 1 on 2nd March: Pick up from Siem Reap International Airport upon arrival by private an English speaking driver, then transfer to check in the hotel in Siem Reap Town. When you are at the airport please seek for your name on a sign.
Driver/Toyota Camry costs US$ 7 for the pick up from the airport. You will have time to relax because you will have many days for touring.
Day 2 on 3rd March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 5:20 AM.Early morning , enjoy a sunrise tour of Angkor Wat with great photographing opportunities. Return to your hotel for breakfast.
Breakfast in the hotel.
AM: Visit ANGKOR THOM (The big city ) was built from 1180-1220 AD by the great King Jayavarman VII dedicated to Buddhism. There are several monuments in it such as: South Gate of Angkor Thom , Bayon, Baphoun, Phimeanakas, Preah Palilay, Elephant and Leper King Terrace and then continue to visit Ta Prohm Temple ( Tomb Raider temple with many gigantic roots of the trees on the temple' s structure ).
PM: Spend the full afternoon to explore the World Seventh Wonder of Angkor Wat (The holy city which is the biggest Hindu temple in Cambodia, was built by King Suryavarman II in early 12th century dedicated to Vishnu God. ( Sunset at Angkor Wat).
Dinner with Traditional Dancing Show at the local restaurant
0vernight at the hotel
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry / sunrise is US$ 70.
Day 3 on 4th March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 8:00 AM..
AM : Visit an ancient Hindu temple at the countryside, BANTEAY SREY (citadel of women, 35Km north of Siem Reap), was built from 968-1001 AD, is dedicated to Shiva God. In Cambodia, it is a unique pink sandstone temple which has most beautiful deep carvings. Then continue to visit Landmine Museum & East Mebon Temple.
PM : Visit Preah Khan ( an extensive 56-hectares Buddhist complex where King Jayavarman VII finally defeated the Cham warriors ).
* Sunset at Phnom Bakheng ( on a top of mountain ) with Angkor Wat scenery.
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 75.
Day 4 on 5th March: ( Special Angkor Tour ) We will start the tour at 8:00 AM..
AM: Taking private boat ride visiting daily life of local people on Floating Village of the biggest fresh water lake in South East Asia named Tonle Sap
Lake. On the way back, enjoy City Tours: Market, Shopping, Artisan Angkor Art School,etc
Lunch at the local restaurant
PM : Visit " Rolous Group" (Hinduism, 9th century): Preah Ko, Lo Lei & Bakong. "
Dinner at the local restaurant
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 60.
Day 5 on 6th March: ( Adventure trip for a full day trip ).
- Beng Mealea ( Beng Mealea temple was built in the 12 cetury, the layout and style of Beng Mealea is very similar to Angkor Wat. Its current state, however, is dominated by jungle. Trees have grown out of the towers and vines entangle columns. Lintels and others building blocks lay around in a tumble and rquire visitors to climd up and down as they approach the completely collapsed central towers. This is how the early expeditions must have found the temples of Angkor.... )
- Koh Ker ( After the Khmer empire had been established in the Angkor area (Roluos), Jayavarman IV moved the capital in 928 almost 100km northeast to Koh Ker. Here a vast number of temples were built under his reign, until his successor returned to the Angkor area about twenty years later.
The Koh Ker site is dominated by Prasat Thom, a 35 meter tall temple mountain raising high above the plain and the surrounding forest. Great views await the visitor at the end of an adventurous climb. Garuda carved into the stone blocks, still guard the very top, although they are partially covered
now. Across the site of Koh Ker there are many prasat or tower sanctuaries. A couple still feature an enormous linga on a yoni that provides space for several people. The outlet for the water that was sanctified by running it over the linga can be seen in the outside wall of one of them. In other cases, three prasat stand next to each other, dedicated to Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. Most of them are surrounded by libraries and enclosures, many also had moats. At that time, the roofs were still made of wood. Today, only the holes for the beams remain in the stone structures. The site is still 3 hours away from Siemreap, the area has been demined only recently and basic visitors' facilities are just being built. This makes Koh Ker very attractive for anyone who would like to experience lonely temples partially overgrown by the forest and inhabited only by birds, calling to
each other from the trees. )
Tour guide + Driver/ Toyota Camry is US$ 150.
Day 6 on 7th March: You will be free for your own leisure until the transfer the airport for the departure. It costs US$ 7 by an English speaking driver.
- Price for tour from Day 1-Day 6 in the Angkor area is US$ 369 as total for 2 people. Price quoted is the net cost ( i.e included taxes, services, driver, tour guide, petrol, car, parking fees, sunrise, remote temple like in the itineray and pick up /transfer to the airport ). For the other expenditures, you have to pay for by yourself such as tickets to visit the temples of Angkor, boat trip, food, drinks...).
If we fly to LP next the flight is at 12:55pm.
How's this sound for a SR plan?
Susie
Jun 24th, 2009, 06:48 PM
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Susie, I'd highly recommend that you get a copy of Dawn Rooney's book, Angkor. Look for the latest edition (2006?). You can then decide what you want to do with your time.
If you are really going to be there for 5 days, buy the week long temple pass for $60 as it will give you more flexibility. You could visit a temple the first afternoon or for sunset, and you could visit a temple or two your last day. For my taste, you aren't seeing enough temples, but the number might be just fine for you.
Also, decide whether you want to go to Tonele Sap. Some people love it, some hate it.
If you are really going to be there for 5 days, buy the week long temple pass for $60 as it will give you more flexibility. You could visit a temple the first afternoon or for sunset, and you could visit a temple or two your last day. For my taste, you aren't seeing enough temples, but the number might be just fine for you.
Also, decide whether you want to go to Tonele Sap. Some people love it, some hate it.
Jun 27th, 2009, 05:56 AM
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This is why I'm hesitant about BKK. A message I got today from the US State Department:
June 27, 2009
This message alerts U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Bangkok
that as many as 30,000-50,000 supporters of the United Front for
Democracy Against Dictatorship (aka UDD or Red-Shirts) will congregate
in Sanam Luang beginning Saturday, June 27th at 1700 continuing until
Sunday morning.
We wish to remind American citizens that even demonstrations intended to
be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into
violence. American citizens are urged to avoid the area of Sanam Luang
or to exercise caution if within the vicinity of any demonstrations.
For the latest security information, Americans living and traveling
abroad should regularly monitor the Department's Bureau of Consular
Affairs Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov, where the current
Worldwide Caution, Travel Alerts, Travel Warnings, and
health-information resources can be found. Up-to-date information on
security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the
U.S. and Canada or, for callers in other areas by calling a regular toll
line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to
8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal
holidays).
American citizens traveling or residing in Thailand are encouraged to
register with the Department of State or the U.S. Embassy. The Embassy
is located at 95 Wireless Road in Bangkok. The American Citizen
Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy can be reached by calling
66-2-205-4049 and by e-mail at [email protected]. The after hours
emergency telephone number is 66-2-205-4000.
Kathie, the events in Thailand last Nov. weren't so unique after all. It could happen again.
June 27, 2009
This message alerts U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Bangkok
that as many as 30,000-50,000 supporters of the United Front for
Democracy Against Dictatorship (aka UDD or Red-Shirts) will congregate
in Sanam Luang beginning Saturday, June 27th at 1700 continuing until
Sunday morning.
We wish to remind American citizens that even demonstrations intended to
be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into
violence. American citizens are urged to avoid the area of Sanam Luang
or to exercise caution if within the vicinity of any demonstrations.
For the latest security information, Americans living and traveling
abroad should regularly monitor the Department's Bureau of Consular
Affairs Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov, where the current
Worldwide Caution, Travel Alerts, Travel Warnings, and
health-information resources can be found. Up-to-date information on
security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the
U.S. and Canada or, for callers in other areas by calling a regular toll
line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to
8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal
holidays).
American citizens traveling or residing in Thailand are encouraged to
register with the Department of State or the U.S. Embassy. The Embassy
is located at 95 Wireless Road in Bangkok. The American Citizen
Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy can be reached by calling
66-2-205-4049 and by e-mail at [email protected]. The after hours
emergency telephone number is 66-2-205-4000.
Kathie, the events in Thailand last Nov. weren't so unique after all. It could happen again.
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:04 AM
#17
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As I replied on your other post - this is a different situation to that of last year. I would not worry about it but if you are afraid then skip Thailand altogether and go via Singapore or Vietnam.
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:50 AM
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Hi Susie
By the time you go, the new "flex pass" will be available. You can buy a 3 day pass ($40) and use it any time within 7 days. That should make it nice for mixing your schedule up a bit and not smashing it into three consecutive days.
I don't know why you would need your guide to go shopping in Siem Reap...
I would totally skip the boat trip he's suggesting and ask him to take you somewhere a little more authentic. If you do go out there, have your guide make it clear to your boat driver that you'd rather give him a big tip than stop anywhere for shopping or to make donations. (If you want to donate legitimate supplies to legitimate children, please go here www.theplf.org then you can tell him you gave at the office)
On that note, while you're out at Rolous, stop by the Little Angels, a good program for orphans supporting themselves by making leather shadow puppets which are lovely.
IMO the sunset at Phnom Bakheng is not all that. (I guess it would be if you were the only one up there.) Bring a flashlight if you go, so you can get back down.
At which venue is the Apsara Dancing Show? Those shows are often good but the food is terrible. East elsewhere then go.
In case he didn't mention it, the tickets for Bang Melea and Koh Ker are not covered by temple pass, they are $5 and $10 respectively. Maybe he included it in his day rate, since his price for the day seems a bit high....That's a great trip up there. Take lots of bug spray.
By the time you go, the new "flex pass" will be available. You can buy a 3 day pass ($40) and use it any time within 7 days. That should make it nice for mixing your schedule up a bit and not smashing it into three consecutive days.
I don't know why you would need your guide to go shopping in Siem Reap...
I would totally skip the boat trip he's suggesting and ask him to take you somewhere a little more authentic. If you do go out there, have your guide make it clear to your boat driver that you'd rather give him a big tip than stop anywhere for shopping or to make donations. (If you want to donate legitimate supplies to legitimate children, please go here www.theplf.org then you can tell him you gave at the office)
On that note, while you're out at Rolous, stop by the Little Angels, a good program for orphans supporting themselves by making leather shadow puppets which are lovely.
IMO the sunset at Phnom Bakheng is not all that. (I guess it would be if you were the only one up there.) Bring a flashlight if you go, so you can get back down.
At which venue is the Apsara Dancing Show? Those shows are often good but the food is terrible. East elsewhere then go.
In case he didn't mention it, the tickets for Bang Melea and Koh Ker are not covered by temple pass, they are $5 and $10 respectively. Maybe he included it in his day rate, since his price for the day seems a bit high....That's a great trip up there. Take lots of bug spray.
Jun 27th, 2009, 11:06 AM
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Like offwego, I think you have more guide time than you need - do some things on your own - and the places he's taking you (with the exceptions of Koh Ker and Beng Mealea) are totally on the tourist track and will be busy to mobbed depending on the time of day. Phnom Bakhing is especially crowded (a zoo, many people say). When we were at Angkor 8 years ago before the boom really got going, we were able to go to Phnom Baking at sunset and have a good time. We happened to be between the departure from Siem Reap of one batch of tours and before the next batch, so it was relatively quiet. There were a lot of people there, but it was a mellow group. Even then, though, it was by no means a peak experience, and we did it because we had the time, being there a week. If I were you, I'd cut it. Do look at Dawn Rooney's book and choose some temples your guide hasn't listed. There are many dozens, and there are some where you'll still see no or very few tourists, as everyone tends to go to the same ones. Some are must-sees, like Angkor Wat And The Bayon and Banteay Srei, but others you mights cut to see some less-visited ones. Being alone in the quiet of a ruined temple is really magical (ask your guide to go back to the car so you can have some time to yourself).
I assume I've given you the link to our photos, but if I haven't here it is : www.marlandc.com
I assume I've given you the link to our photos, but if I haven't here it is : www.marlandc.com
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:50 PM
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This winter we had six nights in Siem Reap and four in Luang Prabang. That turned out to be right for us. We also had 5 nights in Phuket and 4 nights in BKK. Laos and Cambodia were the highlights of the trip, and now I wish we'd included Phnom Penh and skipped Bangkok. We had been to BKK 9 years ago, and found it a letdown this time by comparison. Maybe anxieties about possible foulups in Thailand partly soured me in advance. Given your recent experience, you might want to give it a pass this time. And would you find 4 cities in 2 weeks one too many?
The proposed tour for Siem Reap looks very good--better than what we had over 4 days with our guide. But your second day looks like such a killer, going to the Dance Show on your first night might make it easier. (The museum the first afternoon would be good preparation.) I wouldn't commit to the airport transfers--your hotel might provide them gratis. (Unless you want to see your guide every single day you're in the country.) Given our experience with our guide, it might be worth building in an opt-out possibility after 2 days if you're not hitting it off. "More guide time than you need" in our case meant too much with the wrong person.
If you're planning to use the Discovery Airpass, by all means start planning the route now. You may think you can cut a day here or add a day there only to find the Bangkok Airways flight doesn't go that day, or that it's not available. When you have a tentative itinerary check the online schedule and then phone an agent.
Dawn Rooney's book is indeed authoritative and comprehensive, tho' the 2008 Lonely Planet guide by Nick Ray is surprisingly useful. It's pocket-size and therefore convenient to consult in the field. Lots of information in its small format.
The proposed tour for Siem Reap looks very good--better than what we had over 4 days with our guide. But your second day looks like such a killer, going to the Dance Show on your first night might make it easier. (The museum the first afternoon would be good preparation.) I wouldn't commit to the airport transfers--your hotel might provide them gratis. (Unless you want to see your guide every single day you're in the country.) Given our experience with our guide, it might be worth building in an opt-out possibility after 2 days if you're not hitting it off. "More guide time than you need" in our case meant too much with the wrong person.
If you're planning to use the Discovery Airpass, by all means start planning the route now. You may think you can cut a day here or add a day there only to find the Bangkok Airways flight doesn't go that day, or that it's not available. When you have a tentative itinerary check the online schedule and then phone an agent.
Dawn Rooney's book is indeed authoritative and comprehensive, tho' the 2008 Lonely Planet guide by Nick Ray is surprisingly useful. It's pocket-size and therefore convenient to consult in the field. Lots of information in its small format.
