Tour Group?
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:57 AM
#2
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Is this actually a tour group? I've looked at prices for various destinations though United Vacations and they all seemed to just be travel packages: air & hotel, no tour group, guides, etc. (which I think is better anyway, as I find tour groups just deadly.)
Apr 20th, 2010, 05:15 AM
#4
Before you book with an agency, please do a search on this forum for previous posts on whether and how to chose a company for a tour in China. And ignore herbre, who seems to be an (undeclared) agent.
Apr 20th, 2010, 06:55 PM
#5
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thursdaysd,
I tried searching for tour groups or choosing tour company and came up with nothing. Can you advise me how to search?
We are debating whether to set up the whole trip by ourselves or not. But I'm chicken. If something goes wrong, we don't have anyone to talk to.
I tried searching for tour groups or choosing tour company and came up with nothing. Can you advise me how to search?
We are debating whether to set up the whole trip by ourselves or not. But I'm chicken. If something goes wrong, we don't have anyone to talk to.
Apr 21st, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Start by choosing China from the drop-down menu at the top of the page. That will give you all of the posts about China.
Next, read some of the relevant posts. You'll find that most people here opt to travel independently. You'll also find extensive posts especially by Peter N-H about why you might not want to travel with a tour.
Next, read some of the relevant posts. You'll find that most people here opt to travel independently. You'll also find extensive posts especially by Peter N-H about why you might not want to travel with a tour.
Apr 21st, 2010, 10:51 AM
#7
Apr 22nd, 2010, 08:37 AM
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> The perpetual question-
> Tour group or independent? Is there one answer for everyone?
This isn't the question being asked here. There's nothing wrong with either method of travel. What is right is that no one who prefers to travel independently should feel the need to take a tour in China, and that those who prefer tours should understand the very problematic nature of organised tourism in China, how much this differs from what they might expect, and just how much they will be taken for a ride. The aim is that if they should still want to choose a tour it should be with eyes wide open and wallet firmly shut, avoiding the worst pitfalls.
Being profoundly misled, paying more than you need to, and having your pocket thoroughly picked? Is there one answer for everyone?
Peter N-H
> Tour group or independent? Is there one answer for everyone?
This isn't the question being asked here. There's nothing wrong with either method of travel. What is right is that no one who prefers to travel independently should feel the need to take a tour in China, and that those who prefer tours should understand the very problematic nature of organised tourism in China, how much this differs from what they might expect, and just how much they will be taken for a ride. The aim is that if they should still want to choose a tour it should be with eyes wide open and wallet firmly shut, avoiding the worst pitfalls.
Being profoundly misled, paying more than you need to, and having your pocket thoroughly picked? Is there one answer for everyone?
Peter N-H
Apr 25th, 2010, 07:18 AM
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Thanks for all of your advice. I guess I would like to arrange the trip myself, but I'm chicken. I'm afraid I might miss something. For instance, I was planning a day at the museums in Beijing like the History/Revolution one. trevelchinaguide informed me that they are closed at the moment with no date of reopening yet. That's info I wouldnt' have been aware of. Certainly this could come up many times during the trip.
I'm concerned about being "taken" also. Even though we are not suppose to be paying the commission for the travel agents, (the hotels, etc are), but do WE pay a higher rate for the hotels so that they can in turn pay the travel agents their commission?
What has your experience been with travelchinaguide?
I'm concerned about being "taken" also. Even though we are not suppose to be paying the commission for the travel agents, (the hotels, etc are), but do WE pay a higher rate for the hotels so that they can in turn pay the travel agents their commission?
What has your experience been with travelchinaguide?
Apr 25th, 2010, 07:38 AM
#12
"I'm afraid I might miss something." - that's what guidebooks and sites like this are for. Visit your library and borrow the picture guides like Fodor's Exploring or DK Eyewitness to decide what you want to see. Then settle in at your local bookstore with a cup of coffee to go through the guides with info on trains, buses etc before deciding which one to buy (I like Lonely Planet, although PeterN_H disagrees.) Then post your itinerary here for comment.
I'll let Peter deal with the commission question...
travelchinaguide is a travel agency. Haven't used it and don't intend to.
I'll let Peter deal with the commission question...
travelchinaguide is a travel agency. Haven't used it and don't intend to.
Apr 25th, 2010, 08:15 AM
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"I'm afraid I might miss something." Of course you'll miss something, you'll miss lots of things. There is no way you can go somewhere and see everything. The point isn't even to try to see everything, the point is to see/do/experience the things that interest you most.
Get yourself a good guide book or even two. Once you've decided what you want to do/see/experience, you'll find you can do it yourself. One tip - don't schedule in too much. It's the incidental happenings that are often the most memorable.
Travel agents have to be paid by someone. Unlike posters on this forum, they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they are doing it to pay their mortgage.
Get yourself a good guide book or even two. Once you've decided what you want to do/see/experience, you'll find you can do it yourself. One tip - don't schedule in too much. It's the incidental happenings that are often the most memorable.
Travel agents have to be paid by someone. Unlike posters on this forum, they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they are doing it to pay their mortgage.
Apr 25th, 2010, 12:41 PM
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> I'm afraid I might miss something.
What does this mean? Do some reading, decide what you want to see, and go and see it. Go on a tour and you'll be taken to see/shop at/eat at/stay at places that suit them rather than you.
> For instance, I was planning a day at the museums in Beijing like the History/Revolution one. trevelchinaguide informed me that they are closed at the moment with no date of reopening yet. That's info I wouldnt' have been aware of.
Assuming you suddenly lost the ability to read, or to type search criteria into Google, this might indeed be true. The idea that because travelchinaguide knows information it would be mysteriously hidden from others is, er... not tenable.
These museums no longer exist, and will eventually re-open as the National Museum. Some say this will be in the second half of this year, but no one I spoke to there in late winter this year was admitting to any opening date in particular. For now the Capital Museum (Google it) will do you just as well, and if you want to do museums all day there are two others in a few minutes' walk.
But let's suppose that you decided to do no reading or research at all, and showed up at the shuttered museum, would this be a calamity?
Stand with your back to the museum and you have Tian'an Men Square in front of you with the Mao Mausoleum. Across the square you have the Great Hall of the People, and a small coin museum. To your right the Forbidden City, and to your left the Zhangyang Men and its Arrow Tower (often known as Qian Men). Adjacent to those you have the British-built railway station due to open (eventually) as a railway museum, the Legation Quarter, the (revoltingly) rebuilt Qian Men Dajie (Avenue) itself (assorted historic restaurants in revamped premises) with some genuine late-Qing/early Nationalist-era shopping to one side, and a warren of hutong. Metro stations on two different lines at the north and south end of the square would put you within a few minutes' travel of dozens of other sights. And if you had a half-decent guide book in hand (which you had neglected to read until that moment, however) it would tell you all this.
> Certainly this could come up many times during the trip.
Certainly if you're determined (without previous experience) that this is hard, then of course it will be hard. It isn't for the majority of other people, but if you really must take a tour then take one. No excuses necessary.
> I'm concerned about being "taken" also.
This is, of course, the main reason why you shouldn't take a tour.
> Even though we are not suppose to be paying the commission for the travel agents, (the hotels, etc are), but do WE pay a higher rate for the hotels so that they can in turn pay the travel agents their commission?
Foreign-managed hotels globally pay standard, well-advertised commission rates to agencies that bring them bookings and which are included in the published room rates. However, if you are booking a foreign-managed hotel in Beijing then in the majority of cases the cheapest rate is to be found on the hotel's own website, and most guarantee that in writing. If you think you've found the same room cheaper elsewhere they will compensate you. But you will be wrong.
If, on the other hand, you are planning to stay in a Chinese-managed hotels then if you go to them directly you will typically pay a great deal more, and possibly double, what you will pay if you simply show up at the counter and bargain. Nobody pays the published rates except a few daft foreigners. However, if you must book in advance then instead you use, at least for one or two nights to give you a soft landing, one of the Chinese hotel booking engines such as Ctrip or eLong. These aren't without their problems, and the descriptions of hotels provided are often profoundly mendacious (they often are on Western booking sites, too), but the rates are usually reasonably close to those you could obtain by yourself with a bit of bargaining.
Peter N-H
What does this mean? Do some reading, decide what you want to see, and go and see it. Go on a tour and you'll be taken to see/shop at/eat at/stay at places that suit them rather than you.
> For instance, I was planning a day at the museums in Beijing like the History/Revolution one. trevelchinaguide informed me that they are closed at the moment with no date of reopening yet. That's info I wouldnt' have been aware of.
Assuming you suddenly lost the ability to read, or to type search criteria into Google, this might indeed be true. The idea that because travelchinaguide knows information it would be mysteriously hidden from others is, er... not tenable.
These museums no longer exist, and will eventually re-open as the National Museum. Some say this will be in the second half of this year, but no one I spoke to there in late winter this year was admitting to any opening date in particular. For now the Capital Museum (Google it) will do you just as well, and if you want to do museums all day there are two others in a few minutes' walk.
But let's suppose that you decided to do no reading or research at all, and showed up at the shuttered museum, would this be a calamity?
Stand with your back to the museum and you have Tian'an Men Square in front of you with the Mao Mausoleum. Across the square you have the Great Hall of the People, and a small coin museum. To your right the Forbidden City, and to your left the Zhangyang Men and its Arrow Tower (often known as Qian Men). Adjacent to those you have the British-built railway station due to open (eventually) as a railway museum, the Legation Quarter, the (revoltingly) rebuilt Qian Men Dajie (Avenue) itself (assorted historic restaurants in revamped premises) with some genuine late-Qing/early Nationalist-era shopping to one side, and a warren of hutong. Metro stations on two different lines at the north and south end of the square would put you within a few minutes' travel of dozens of other sights. And if you had a half-decent guide book in hand (which you had neglected to read until that moment, however) it would tell you all this.
> Certainly this could come up many times during the trip.
Certainly if you're determined (without previous experience) that this is hard, then of course it will be hard. It isn't for the majority of other people, but if you really must take a tour then take one. No excuses necessary.
> I'm concerned about being "taken" also.
This is, of course, the main reason why you shouldn't take a tour.
> Even though we are not suppose to be paying the commission for the travel agents, (the hotels, etc are), but do WE pay a higher rate for the hotels so that they can in turn pay the travel agents their commission?
Foreign-managed hotels globally pay standard, well-advertised commission rates to agencies that bring them bookings and which are included in the published room rates. However, if you are booking a foreign-managed hotel in Beijing then in the majority of cases the cheapest rate is to be found on the hotel's own website, and most guarantee that in writing. If you think you've found the same room cheaper elsewhere they will compensate you. But you will be wrong.
If, on the other hand, you are planning to stay in a Chinese-managed hotels then if you go to them directly you will typically pay a great deal more, and possibly double, what you will pay if you simply show up at the counter and bargain. Nobody pays the published rates except a few daft foreigners. However, if you must book in advance then instead you use, at least for one or two nights to give you a soft landing, one of the Chinese hotel booking engines such as Ctrip or eLong. These aren't without their problems, and the descriptions of hotels provided are often profoundly mendacious (they often are on Western booking sites, too), but the rates are usually reasonably close to those you could obtain by yourself with a bit of bargaining.
Peter N-H
May 2nd, 2010, 08:55 AM
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BTW, by miss something, I was referring to missing a part of the planning that I need for the trip, not missing seeing something in China. As you said, there is so much to see, no one can see it all. I meant miss a step we need for the trip.
May 3rd, 2010, 10:30 AM
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Hi, all. we just completed 15 day vacation in China. It was a private tour arranged with travelchinaguide. They provided airfare, local guides and some of the hotels. We had 2 couples travelling together and in our opinion the agency did very good job for us. most guides had excellent language skills and in general were very helpful. But the biggest help came on the day of Yushu earthquake, when we were in Lhasa.
Our flight was cancelled, but they managed to rebook us, so we did not lose much time. We met people who got stuck in similar situation.
Regards, Mike
Our flight was cancelled, but they managed to rebook us, so we did not lose much time. We met people who got stuck in similar situation.
Regards, Mike
May 3rd, 2010, 05:01 PM
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Nothing here to counter the argument that you can get the airfare (and accommodation, and everything else) cheaper yourself; nor do the language skills of local guides make any difference to the poor accuracy of the historical and other background information they provide; nor is there any reason whatsoever to suppose that you wouldn't have been able to re-book your own flights (it is inevitable that not everyone will get what they want in a situation like this, but no particular reason to believe that having a guide would be an advantage, or that others with guides didn't get stuck).
You may wish to take an organised tour regardless of any arguments presented in the links given above, but there's nothing here to make a case for doing so. And with this tour company in particular the same questions need to be asked as have been suggested for others, as their website is worryingly coy.
You may wish to take an organised tour regardless of any arguments presented in the links given above, but there's nothing here to make a case for doing so. And with this tour company in particular the same questions need to be asked as have been suggested for others, as their website is worryingly coy.
May 4th, 2010, 06:58 AM
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Actually, everything you need to know about travelchinaguide can be found in this advice on tipping, from its website:
' Do I have to tip when join an organized tour?
' Answer: Yes, you need to tip even though you join an organized tour.
The quotation we offered doesn't include the tips for the guides and drivers. So if you are satisfactory with their service, you need to tip them yourself.'
There is no tipping in China, other than that foisted upon hapless foreigners by con artists such as these. Steer well clear.
' Do I have to tip when join an organized tour?
' Answer: Yes, you need to tip even though you join an organized tour.
The quotation we offered doesn't include the tips for the guides and drivers. So if you are satisfactory with their service, you need to tip them yourself.'
There is no tipping in China, other than that foisted upon hapless foreigners by con artists such as these. Steer well clear.
Jul 17th, 2010, 10:46 AM
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In a country where the language is a problem, we prefer to go first by tour group and after that on our own. On our first trip we used Pacific Delight mostly because it seemed to go to all the places, Bejing, Sian, Guilin, Shanghai, Yangtse Cruise and was the cheapest.
It was a great tour. While it is true that the eating establishments did not even compare with Panda Express, you must remember that Chinese food in China is not really the same as US Chinese food.
While, it is also true there is not supposed to be tipping in China but Chinese are born capitalists. One of the reasons that our tour was so good was that when we got to some place crowded, our tour was singled out to go to the front of the line. The reason was that our tour guide, Judy, had collected tips at $2 per person per day. She then put the money in envelopes with each destination on it. She selected someone from the tour to be responsible for making sure that it was all given out to the guides. She chose my husband so I am positive it was all given out. When the guides saw her, they knew that there was a good tip in it for them, hence we always walked to the front of the line.
It was a great tour. While it is true that the eating establishments did not even compare with Panda Express, you must remember that Chinese food in China is not really the same as US Chinese food.
While, it is also true there is not supposed to be tipping in China but Chinese are born capitalists. One of the reasons that our tour was so good was that when we got to some place crowded, our tour was singled out to go to the front of the line. The reason was that our tour guide, Judy, had collected tips at $2 per person per day. She then put the money in envelopes with each destination on it. She selected someone from the tour to be responsible for making sure that it was all given out to the guides. She chose my husband so I am positive it was all given out. When the guides saw her, they knew that there was a good tip in it for them, hence we always walked to the front of the line.
