The Great Wall and Qing Tombs
Dec 31st, 2009, 04:55 AM
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The Great Wall and Qing Tombs
Quick questions for those who may know. Can the Great Wall (Mutianyu) and the Qing Tombs (either Eastern or Western) be realistically done in a day trip from Beijing assuming a private car and a 6am start from the center city? If so, what would a realistic charge be for a private car/taxi for such a excursion.
Thanks,
Michael
Thanks,
Michael
Dec 31st, 2009, 08:52 AM
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To get an idea of what you'd be tackling here, Google Maps is your friend. Go to:
maps.google.com
enter 'Beijing' to get yourself in the right part of the world, then click 'directions'.
In the first box put 'Mutianyu',
and in the second paste all of the following:
China河北省遵化市马兰峪镇 (河北遵化清东陵)
You can also just enter
清东陵
and the third result is the one you want (the others refer to Beijing businesses with these characters in their name).
Click to get the route shown, and pan out slightly to see the relationship between Mutianyu, the Eastern Qing Tombs, and the city.
Google maps are unreliable, as they are based on the same incomplete, inaccurate, and sometimes deliberately misleading sources as Chinese maps. But the route shown does look credible, and note the estimated time between these two is over three hours.
So, in short, you could do this, but it really would be rather a rush, and your problem is going to be finding a driver who knows where both places are, feels confident to navigate to each and between them, and is able to assess what figure he should try asking for. ¥600 would be fair, but you might have to pay more.
Maps don't really mean anything to most taxi drivers, but you could try printing out the Chinese version and taking that with you.
Go to http://ditu.google.com
In the first main block of blue Chinese characters on the left click the first one: 北京市
Click this 公交／驾车 (below 'Google', top left), enter Mutianyu and the characters already given in the A and B boxes respectively, and 老王's your uncle.
Note the Eastern Qing Tombs close around 4.30pm, and are fairly spread out, even if you stick to the most important and interesting tombs. If you go for the day you can walk between them, but with limited time you'll need to use the vehicle to get between them. Expect to pick up parking charges of about ¥10 per tomb, and in order to get the ¥600 price for the cab you might need to offer to pick up these and the highway tolls (a few tens of ¥).
I would suggest leaving Mutianyu no later than 11am at the latest, and well before if you can. I've no time to edit the following, but if you carry a GPS or have a GPS-enabled phone, the following may help:
Mutianyu
40°26'17"N 116°33'43"E
Eastern Qing Tombs
Temple (Miao) 40 10.815N 117 41.04E
Kangxi Tomb 40 11.19N 117 39.790E
Xiaoling Tomb 40 11.539N 117 39.117E
Qianlong 40 11.178N 117 38.754E
Xiangfei 40 11.262N 117 38.518E
Dingling 40 11.100N 117 37.901E
Car park/tour bus stops: 40 11.12N 117 38.517E
Dong Ling 40 08.808N 117 41.637E
Peter N-H
maps.google.com
enter 'Beijing' to get yourself in the right part of the world, then click 'directions'.
In the first box put 'Mutianyu',
and in the second paste all of the following:
China河北省遵化市马兰峪镇 (河北遵化清东陵)
You can also just enter
清东陵
and the third result is the one you want (the others refer to Beijing businesses with these characters in their name).
Click to get the route shown, and pan out slightly to see the relationship between Mutianyu, the Eastern Qing Tombs, and the city.
Google maps are unreliable, as they are based on the same incomplete, inaccurate, and sometimes deliberately misleading sources as Chinese maps. But the route shown does look credible, and note the estimated time between these two is over three hours.
So, in short, you could do this, but it really would be rather a rush, and your problem is going to be finding a driver who knows where both places are, feels confident to navigate to each and between them, and is able to assess what figure he should try asking for. ¥600 would be fair, but you might have to pay more.
Maps don't really mean anything to most taxi drivers, but you could try printing out the Chinese version and taking that with you.
Go to http://ditu.google.com
In the first main block of blue Chinese characters on the left click the first one: 北京市
Click this 公交／驾车 (below 'Google', top left), enter Mutianyu and the characters already given in the A and B boxes respectively, and 老王's your uncle.
Note the Eastern Qing Tombs close around 4.30pm, and are fairly spread out, even if you stick to the most important and interesting tombs. If you go for the day you can walk between them, but with limited time you'll need to use the vehicle to get between them. Expect to pick up parking charges of about ¥10 per tomb, and in order to get the ¥600 price for the cab you might need to offer to pick up these and the highway tolls (a few tens of ¥).
I would suggest leaving Mutianyu no later than 11am at the latest, and well before if you can. I've no time to edit the following, but if you carry a GPS or have a GPS-enabled phone, the following may help:
Mutianyu
40°26'17"N 116°33'43"E
Eastern Qing Tombs
Temple (Miao) 40 10.815N 117 41.04E
Kangxi Tomb 40 11.19N 117 39.790E
Xiaoling Tomb 40 11.539N 117 39.117E
Qianlong 40 11.178N 117 38.754E
Xiangfei 40 11.262N 117 38.518E
Dingling 40 11.100N 117 37.901E
Car park/tour bus stops: 40 11.12N 117 38.517E
Dong Ling 40 08.808N 117 41.637E
Peter N-H
Dec 31st, 2009, 09:58 AM
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Peter, that is a bit of a hike (about 6 hours roundtrip to the Qing Tombs) and even if we leave the Wall by 10:30am it only would give us from 2pm to 430pm at the Tombs, which doesnt seem like nearly enough time. Thoughts?
Are there any other worthwhile sights you recommend that makes more sense seeing in combination with the Wall? This is the only day we expect to use a driver, so we'd like to get as much value from it as possible.
Thanks.
Are there any other worthwhile sights you recommend that makes more sense seeing in combination with the Wall? This is the only day we expect to use a driver, so we'd like to get as much value from it as possible.
Thanks.
Dec 31st, 2009, 10:11 AM
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Unless you are unwise enough to book an all-day trip from a hotel car, it's the distance that counts more than the time spent with the car. Indeed, many taxis without adequate warning take over their vehicles at a certain time in the morning and hand them back 12 hours later to the driver they share the car with. If they're going to be late they negotiate to hand over a part of the fee you're giving them.
But why insist on Mutianyu, which is very touristy, although pleasant enough. Consider Huangya Guan as an alternative, which is much closer to the Eastern Qing Tombs and which will have almost no tourists.
Again, with ditu or maps, you want Eastern Qing Tombs, as before, and:
天津市蓟县 (黄崖关长城)
only 30km apart. Huangya Guan is still a rebuild (all the officially open ones are), but see these pictures:
http://images.google.com/images?clie...ed=0CCUQsAQwAw
Peter N-H
But why insist on Mutianyu, which is very touristy, although pleasant enough. Consider Huangya Guan as an alternative, which is much closer to the Eastern Qing Tombs and which will have almost no tourists.
Again, with ditu or maps, you want Eastern Qing Tombs, as before, and:
天津市蓟县 (黄崖关长城)
only 30km apart. Huangya Guan is still a rebuild (all the officially open ones are), but see these pictures:
http://images.google.com/images?clie...ed=0CCUQsAQwAw
Peter N-H
Dec 31st, 2009, 10:13 AM
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Something wrong with the pasted link. Just go to
http://images.google.com
and paste these characters in the search box:
黄崖关
Peter N-H
http://images.google.com
and paste these characters in the search box:
黄崖关
Peter N-H
Dec 31st, 2009, 10:34 AM
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Peter,
Honestly, I never ever heard of Huangya Guan. I just googled it appears to be an excellent option. Why is it overlooked by most tourists? What kind of infrastructure (if any) is there? Would most drivers know how to get there?
Thanks!
Honestly, I never ever heard of Huangya Guan. I just googled it appears to be an excellent option. Why is it overlooked by most tourists? What kind of infrastructure (if any) is there? Would most drivers know how to get there?
Thanks!
Dec 31st, 2009, 01:17 PM
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> Why is it overlooked by most tourists?
Because most tourists follow each other around, and because they don't do their research. As the images on Google reveal, plenty of people do go there, and the tidying up of the site has been as comprehensive as elsewhere.
> What kind of infrastructure (if any) is there?
This happens to be the only section of Wall in easy reach of Beijing that I haven't visited (something I plan to rectify within the next month). Entry price is said to be ¥40 in summer and ¥35 in winter, plus ¥2 insurance (unless you stop them). In the summer there will likely be a souvenir seller or two, and possibly some food, but not necessarily either if you're lucky (but food in China is never far away, and with a vehicle is no problem at all to find). With luck there won't be any cable car or similar either, or disgusting sled-ride.
> Would most drivers know how to get there?
Most drivers don't know how to get anywhere outside Beijing. Indeed, since regulations were changed and drivers from rural counties of Beijing were permitted to drive cabs, not a few can't get round central Beijing. Most will have to do some research before going to the Eastern Qing Tombs (typically, when you ask about going there, they get on the phone to someone straight away), so you're not really much worse off, and the proximity to the Eastern Qing is a help. You should be talking to drivers a day or two ahead about all these destinations.
I'd like to encourage you to do this, and not to give up on the Eastern Qing. The tombs are really worth a visit (I've been three times), and sections of the Wall not frequently talked about here are invariably of greater interest than those that are; certainly your chances of being almost alone there are much greater. If you really must do the two in one day, this is the combination that would work for you.
Peter N-H
Because most tourists follow each other around, and because they don't do their research. As the images on Google reveal, plenty of people do go there, and the tidying up of the site has been as comprehensive as elsewhere.
> What kind of infrastructure (if any) is there?
This happens to be the only section of Wall in easy reach of Beijing that I haven't visited (something I plan to rectify within the next month). Entry price is said to be ¥40 in summer and ¥35 in winter, plus ¥2 insurance (unless you stop them). In the summer there will likely be a souvenir seller or two, and possibly some food, but not necessarily either if you're lucky (but food in China is never far away, and with a vehicle is no problem at all to find). With luck there won't be any cable car or similar either, or disgusting sled-ride.
> Would most drivers know how to get there?
Most drivers don't know how to get anywhere outside Beijing. Indeed, since regulations were changed and drivers from rural counties of Beijing were permitted to drive cabs, not a few can't get round central Beijing. Most will have to do some research before going to the Eastern Qing Tombs (typically, when you ask about going there, they get on the phone to someone straight away), so you're not really much worse off, and the proximity to the Eastern Qing is a help. You should be talking to drivers a day or two ahead about all these destinations.
I'd like to encourage you to do this, and not to give up on the Eastern Qing. The tombs are really worth a visit (I've been three times), and sections of the Wall not frequently talked about here are invariably of greater interest than those that are; certainly your chances of being almost alone there are much greater. If you really must do the two in one day, this is the combination that would work for you.
Peter N-H
Dec 31st, 2009, 02:52 PM
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Thanks for the help Peter. We will be going in March. After you go perhaps you could top off this thread with your feedback on this section. Also, if you have the chance could you email me your Hutong Walk to michaelgelfond at gmail dot com. Thanks!
Jan 6th, 2010, 06:13 PM
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Does anyone know how far it is from Badaling Great Wall to the Water Pass (Shuiguan Great Wall). Can I hike from one section to another or is it really far? I'm young and I enjoy hiking. I'm willing to hike two to three hours if that is what it takes.
If it's too far to hike, are there buses that drive you to each section of the wall? or do I have to take a taxi?
If it's too far to hike, are there buses that drive you to each section of the wall? or do I have to take a taxi?
Jan 6th, 2010, 09:26 PM
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You can get a clear idea of the route and its length simply by looking up the two spots on Google Earth. You'll need to take notes (and perhaps GPS readings) to make sure you head off in the right direction as there are possibly misleading spurs. As you'll see, at one point you need to drop down to and cross the Jingzhang railway line.
Shui Guan has no public bus (or not the last time I checked, schedules have been juggled recently) and is mostly visited by Chinese tour groups. The only foreign faces seen are those that have wandered down from The Commune nearby.
The restored section of the Wall is fairly brief here, and its nod to authenticity fairly cursory. Guards at either end refuse to allow you to pass onto unrestored sections, but coming from Badaling payment of ¥30 should get you past them in the opposite direction.
There are taxis (and probably the moonlighting private cars known as 'black' cars--these can certainly be found at Badaling) that will take you to Changping (plentiful buses) or Beijing directly, for a juicy fee. No more than ¥200 for the entire car to get to Beijing (and right to the door of your hotel), and you should see if you can split that with other Chinese passengers: four bodies at ¥50 each. Don't pay until you get out.
Peter N-H
Shui Guan has no public bus (or not the last time I checked, schedules have been juggled recently) and is mostly visited by Chinese tour groups. The only foreign faces seen are those that have wandered down from The Commune nearby.
The restored section of the Wall is fairly brief here, and its nod to authenticity fairly cursory. Guards at either end refuse to allow you to pass onto unrestored sections, but coming from Badaling payment of ¥30 should get you past them in the opposite direction.
There are taxis (and probably the moonlighting private cars known as 'black' cars--these can certainly be found at Badaling) that will take you to Changping (plentiful buses) or Beijing directly, for a juicy fee. No more than ¥200 for the entire car to get to Beijing (and right to the door of your hotel), and you should see if you can split that with other Chinese passengers: four bodies at ¥50 each. Don't pay until you get out.
Peter N-H
