racheldavid

Hi,

I'm heading to Japan with my husband in September -- we're staying in Tokyo, Kyoto and have three days in the middle of the trip to spend in the mountains. Friends of ours recently went to Takayama and Matsumoto -- they recommended Takayama between the two but I'm not convinced. I like that Matsumoto is a touch bigger, has amazing soba and can be navigated on bike. (I worry about being a little bored in Takayama, though I think we'd do day trips to Hida and Kamikochi.) Any thoughts? Is three days enough time to hit both? (Doesn't seem like it, especially since we're squeezing in 4 destinations into a 13 day trip as it is.) Is there somewhere else we should consider instead? (We're looking for something fairly rural, beautiful and different from the U.S. [we live in New York City]-- this will probably be our only time in Japan!) Would love any advice.

Also, in case you want to weigh in, here's our current itinerary:

Sept 18
Arrive in Tokyo 3:30 p.m.

Sept 19:
Tokyo

Sept 20:
Tokyo

Sept 21:
Tokyo

Sept 22:
Leave for Takayama? (looks like there are trains early and late)

Sept 23:
Takayama (day trip to Kamikochi)

Sept 24:
Takayama (biking & sake tasting in Hida)

Sept 25:
Leave for Kyoto (looks like trains are just in the late afternoon, so we'd still have the morning in Takayama)

Sept 26:
Kyoto

Sept 27:
Kyoto

Sept 28:
Flight to Hong Kong in the morning

Sept 29:
Hong Kong

Sept 30:
Hong Kong

Oct 1:
Flight to NYC in the morning

Sept

Thanks,

Rachel

racheldavid

Oh, and if you think it makes more sense just to tack on an extra day in Kyoto or Tokyo and spend two days in Takayama, do let me know -- we're open to that too. Though, coming from NYC, and hitting mostly cities in this trip, I think we'd rather spend an extra day in the countryside...

kja

I loved Takayama and wish I had given it 2 days! That said, are you really planning only 2 days in Kyoto? I thought Kyoto and Nara worth a bare minimum of 6 days.... Kyoto is not rural, but most of the main temple areas sit a bit apart from the urban areas, and the historic core of Nara is not what I would consider urban. Just something to consider!

kja

BTW, Takayama isn't exactly rural -- it is a city, although its historic core didn't feel overly urban to me. And although I haven't been there, Mosumoto is also a city -- the 2nd largest in Nagano Prefecture.

Have you consulted japan-guide.com? Or some good guidebooks? They might give you a much better sense of what you can expect....

if you really want a day in the countryside, a day trip from Tokyo or Kyoto might serve you better.

Kathie

My first reactions was "not nearly enough time in Kyoto!"

Any chance you can add more days? If not, I'd suggest you cut Hong Kong and spend all of your time in Japan.

We had 16 days in Japan, and had very limited goals: Tokyo, Kanazawa, Kyoto, and Hakone, The pacing was right for us, but we didn't nearly cover the country.

Do take a look at japan-guide.com - an excellent resource.

Kavey

My first reaction matches Kathie's -- more more more time in Kyoto! There is so much in Kyoto itself but there is also an enormous range of places to visit nearby from Nara to Osaka to Kobe to Uji to Yamazaki (for whisky distillery)...

This probably sounds like an obvious question but your friends who have recommended Takayama over Matsumoto ... do they share your travel interests, travel style, energy levels? As a low-stamina traveller with arthritis I just wouldn't even consider biking, hiking or other physical passtimes! Of course, I definitely obsess about food but so far I've found that every place we went to in Japan has fantastic food and something that the local area excels in, so at this stage, certainly for the first trip or two, I don't know that I'd choose somewhere on the basis of a food item that is available all around Japan. Maybe for a local speciality that is only available locally...

With your limited time I'd cut a day off Tokyo and give that to Kyoto too...

Orcas

We stayed 3 nights in Takayama last year and loved it. We returned by train to Tokyo via Matsumoto and visited the castle on our return, which was great.
We stayed at the Sumiyoshi Ryokan. This was our first experience at a ryokan and we loved it. We took a simple train ride to Furukawa for a tour with Hida Satayama Cycling. Before the bike trip, we walked around Furukawa, which was wonderful, including their float museum, which has a 3d movie and incredibly nice staff. We took a day trip to Shirakawago, where we enjoyed the saki festival. We didn't have time to do it all in 3 days. Going to Takayama was a major highlight of our trip and I can't recommend it highly enough.

kja

@ Orcas -- didn't you spend about 6 days in Kyoto? Would you really recommend time in Takayama to someone who is planning only 2 days in Kyoto? I would be interested in reading your thoughts on that. Thanks!

crellston

Haven't been to Masumato but loved Takayama and, like Orcas we spent a couple of nights the Sumiyoshi Ryokan, a highlight of our trip.

A link to our blog with a few photos of Takayama. http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-blo...160/tpod.html# Kyoto is of course amazing bit it was nice to see Takayama for a contrast. We spent 5 nights in Kyoto but cloud easily have spent 10 and you have to draw the line somwhere!

kja

@ crellston -- I have the same (basic) question for you: Would you spend only two days in Kyoto so that you could spend 2-3 days in Takayama? Was it Takayama itself that won your hearts, or was it that particular ryokan? Thanks!

lcuy

I've been to both. They are both small cities, both have some very affordable Japanese Inns, and both will be cooler in September. Both have interesting attractions nearby as well.

I really loved the castle in Matsumoto. It is quite different than the other castles we've visited in Japan. The adjacent museum was a pleasure as well.

We also loved Takayama; the merchant houses, the hike above the town, the float museum, bicycling and the park with the collection of old style homes.

It would be a hard choice for me. If I was doing this, I'd probably cut off a night in Tokyo and add it to Kyoto, and only go to Takayama.

racheldavid

Thanks so much everyone -- this is super helpful. We can't cut out Hong Kong, unfortunately -- we already booked our flights (it was cheaper to not fly direct NYC to Tokyo, and we don't get to Asia very often, so we wanted to see as many different places as possible.) I think I'm going to stick with Takayama but just stay two nights and add one to Kyoto. Unless you guys think it's better to take a night away from Tokyo? I had heard that one doesn't need that much time in Kyoto but maybe I'm mistaken?

racheldavid

Also, it looks like there are trains earlier in the morning from Takayama to Kyoto, so we could get definitely get an extra half-day there. (Leave Takayama at 8 a.m., in Kyoto by 11:20.)

Kathie

I'm sure how much time one needs in Kyoto varies from person to person. We had 5 full days (6 nights) and loved it all. There were plenty of places on our wish list we didn't get to. Take a look at our Japan photos, that may give you a sense: www.marlandc.com

kja

"I had heard that one doesn't need that much time in Kyoto but maybe I'm mistaken?"

I've been reading Fodor's Japan board for about 8 years and think I remember 2 posters saying they were OK with less than 4 days in Kyoto. I see countless posters saying they wish they had had MORE than 4 days there. But of course, that doesn't say what YOUR experience will be.

If you want a rural place, some other options that make sense as a single overnight stay are Nikko/Lake Chuzenji, Miyajima, and Koyasan.

Orcas

I was really responding to the question of Takayama versus Matsumoto. We have been to Japan twice and loved each trip. We only had about a week each time. The first trip we focused on Kyoto and we really loved it. I do think I would put Kyoto first. It is full of sights and one could spend well over five days there. (When we were there, we also did some day trips out, like to Osaka for bunraku theater (well worth it).
The second time, we spent a few days each in Tokyo and Takayama. Tokyo is a great city with much to do. Takayama is much more relaxed.
I love Japan. The people are so welcoming and kind and the sights are fascinating. It is a great place to visit.
We had a hard time passing it up for Thailand this coming trip, but we felt we should branch out a little. (We travel in conjunction with work my husband does in Singapore about once a year - hope it continues- I'm loving it!)

kja

(thanks for clarifying, Orcas, and may you have many more happy travels!)

thursdaysd

I am not as big a fan of Kyoto as others on this board, but I was limping at the time. But I would take a day from Tokyo to add to Kyoto.

I visited both Takayama and Matsumoto, which I would recommend. If you can only visit one which to choose depends on your interests. I would recommend Matsumoto for the castle, but Takayama if you are an Art Nouveau fan. I didn't find the historic districts that interesting, and do recommend seeing both, connecting by bus.

See: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...u-in-takayama/
http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...s-crow-castle/

mrwunrfl

Like thursdaysd, I am also not as big a fan of Kyoto as others but would recommend taking a day from Tokyo to add to Kyoto or to central Japan.

Rachel, you have a good itinerary except (maybe) for this:
Sept 23: Takayama (day trip to Kamikochi).
It is ok, but I have other suggestions but no time right now.

What are you planning for Kamikochi?

You have 3 nights in Takayama. Is that by design because you don't like changing lodging locations?

Sumiyoshi is nice. I think that you can stay there paying lodging only and no meals. Is that so? You definitely would want to have their kaiseki dinner one night.

Are you interested in visiting an onsen? If so, would gender-segrated public baths be ok?

Matsumoto has amazing soba? I didn't know that and now will have to return there. Takayama has amazing ramen and also Hida beef.

Orcas

I agree with mrwunrfl. If you stay at the sumiyoshi ryokan, be sure to have the kaiseki dinner. It is amazing. Also, don't be afraid of the shared bathrooms. When we reserved, we were unable to get the room with the private bath for our first night, so had a room with the shared bath down the hall. It was no problem. We'd have been fine with continuing that arrangement, but had booked the one with the private bath for the other nights and the place was booked, so we had to move. The bathrooms are down the hall and very private. We never saw anyone else using them, in fact. So, you can save money that way. You won't even notice. Be sure to use the big bath downstairs. We used it the first night by chance and realized how great it was so made a point of going every night we stayed. It feels really good and you can share it with others, if you like. Truly relaxing, and I'm not a big "spa" person. In Japan, there is great attention to detail and beauty in so many aspects of life.