rahulm

Hi Everyone,

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I still wanted to post my queries here and get some feedback.

I'm planning a trip to southeast Asia later this year (November) and wanted to get some feedback on where to go and what to do.

- We have ~22 days to travel. (including going there and back again)
- Our travel will originate in San Francisco.
- We definitely want to see Angkor Wat.
- We've heard good things about Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai. So it would be nice to go there too.

Now here is where I'm totally lost:
- Apart from Bangkok and Angkor, what else should we do? We'd like to see a bit more.
- Is it worth going to Banteay Chmar for a side trip? (and is it safe?)
- In general, we're not hardcore travelers since we've not traveled much in our life (yet), so something completely off the beaten path might get us a little lost and shocked
- We both are not really beach people. We prefer places that have some history/educational/cultural value and experiences. That said, a few days of relaxation in between won't hurt! (hence I mention Phuket)

Initially, we thought of doing Bangkok, Phuket, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Siem Reap, Bali and then back. But looking at travel time and number of places the problem is obvious: we'll not enjoy a single place completely. I am fighting this feeling of if-I-do-not-go-here-I-will-miss-out.

I considered Vietnam, but I do not know much about the place. Overall it seems pretty interesting. They have old temples/cities and Ha Long Bay seems to be a nice place to visit.

Currently, I'm thinking of the following places (its just a thought)
- Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket
- Angkor Wat
- Vietnam
- Laos (?)

- Can you suggest how we spend our time in SE Asia?

It would be nice to be able to split it into two sections (2 separate trips to see two different parts of Asia, but logically separate them).

- What are recommendations for low cost airlines/means of transport to get around?
- I've seen AirAsia's website and they have decent deals to get around. Howver, each segment mostly goes to Kuala Lumpur so I'd have to use that as a base to get around. They explicitly state on their website to not use Airasia if you have connections to other flights.
- What is an inexpensive way to get a ticket to Asia from SF?
- Is it better to use a travel agent to plan the trip? If so, are there any recommendations?
- Food: We're vegetarians (dairy is fine, but no meat, fish or any seafood). How much of a problem is this going to be? Is it possible to find vegetarian restaurants around? (I have a feeling this should not be an issue and generally fixable if we're flexible)

Would appreciate your feedback, suggestions, comments!

Thanks.
Rahul

Cicerone

November can be a tricky month in SE Asia as there are two monsoon patterns moving into and out of the area. Take a look at weatherbase.com for historical average rainfall in areas you are considering. Parts of Vietnam will have very heavy rain and flooding at that time, it is not the optimal time for Phuket (unless you mean the very end of the month, when you probably will have less rain). Conversely, it is an excellent month for Hong Kong and pretty dry and pleasant in northeast Thailand (i.e. Bangkok and Chiang Mai).

You cannot see all of Asia in 22 days; and you cannot see anything even close to it all, so don’t even start to worry about that. Do some reading, think about what interests you, check the weather, and then relax. You have not really indicated what your interests are: outdoors versus city; shopping versus beach; etc. With 22 days, assuming the first and last are days you are either arriving or leaving on an international flight, you have 20 days “on the ground”. Therefore, I would not try to “do” more than 4 places, perhaps 5 if you get good direct flights or they are very close together, like Bangkok and Siem Riep or Bangkok and Hong Kong. I think your list is good other than Vietnam and Phuket weather-wise. If you want a beach in November in SE Asia, you probably should go to Bali, albeit the beaches are not quite as pretty; however the place is magical IMO. You could consider an island like Koh Samui or places in the Gulf of Thailand (i.e. east Thailand not west Thailand where Phuket is), but some of those areas are just coming out of monsoon in November so you have to be careful there too; if you are in late November you may be OK, but then you could maybe just go to Phuket.

I think your inclination of not wanting to transit through Kuala Lumpur for all your flights is a good one. This will add considerably to your travel time. It could easily take you the better part of a whole day to travel between places that are really only a 3 hour flight apart. You would have to carefully consider the price versus the travel time. I personally would not even go to KL on a trip to SE Asia which IMO offers many more interesting places, but it does have its fans on this board.

Personally I would pick Hong Kong over Singapore (I have lived in both and currently live in Hong Kong). But the weather in Hong Kong gives it the edge in November IMO. But both are interesting.

You will not have any problem finding vegetarian food in Asia. Two major religions here are built around it.

rhkkmk

well first of all. at max. you have 20 days to deal with....note that every time you change from place to place it will involve about 1/2 to 3/4 of a day...getting ready...trip to airport...wait...fly...get to new hotel, etc....unexpected delays, esp with carriers like air asia....

i would try to limit this trip to thailand and maybe one other place...

i would fly sfo to bkk first....you will then need at least one day to recoup....you could do that at bkk or fly directly to phuket for say 3 days...now there is 17....

then fly back to bkk....spend about 4-5 days there.....now you have 12

fly to chiang mai for say 3 days and maybe 2 days up further north in the golden triangle, north of chiang rai...

now you have 7.....

back to bkk and on the same day fly to siem reap cambodia for 4 nite....now you have 3

back to bkk for 3 days and then home exhausted...

one key for you is to pick your hotel carefully....one with a pool is important for many of us....it all depends on your budget too....decent hotels are generally $60-200 per nite...generally the quality is better than in usa for far less...

take a look at this website:

all pre-pays...prices go up on nov 1

www.huahin.20m.com

another option rather than phuket might be hua hin and you do not need to fly--2+ hour drive south of bkk on the ocean...i really like it there....i thought phuket was for kids honestly---the 20 something crowd...hyatt hotel--HH, there is fantastic!!! but there are many others...

in bangkok i really like the marriott resort and spa and the upscale peninsula, both on the river...

most of us prefer river locations, especially for first visits...

bangkok air is the only flight directly to angkor wat (siem reap)...

flights from SFO might run $900-1400 in coach...depends on deals: united, northwest, eva, japan, korean, thai, cathy pacific, singapore, ana and others....times vary from 18 to 30 hours....its a killer...often there is at least one stop....japan being the most frequent...

we will be glad to assist with every detail of your trip once you get a better hold on it...

bob

Guenmai

Personally I think you've chosen too many places. I've done Singapore,Bali,Chiangmai, and Bangkok over a three-week period and that was enough. Happy Travels!

Kathie

With a mere 20 days on the ground, chose a maximum of five places (preferably 4 places) to visit. Try to choose places relatively close together so you don't spend even more of your vacation in airplanes. It sounds like Angkor is one for sure. Add Bangkok, and consider perhaps a locale in Northern Thailand (I much prefer the Golden Triangle to Chiang Mai) and/or Luang Prabang Laos. If you aren't beach people, don't go to a beach. You can find plenty of other places to relax.

I'm a city person, but it would be a shame to take your first Asia trip and just visit one big city after another. Try to visit a variety of locales.

VN is worth at least a couple of weeks on its own. You could opt for one of your locations to be a city in VN (Hanoi is the one I'd recommend), but you'll have to fight the temptation to plan to visit the whole country in your limited time (unless you choose VN as the only place you are going).

You have the right idea - choose just a few locations and slow down so you can experience them. Decide what is most important to you and plan your trip around that.

jenskar

The SR to BKK, north Thailand, Laos loop is an excellent suggestion -- if we hadn't done Bali this year that was our itinerary exactly. We did Chiang Mai/BKK a year ago -- having read what others have said about Anantara in the Golden Triangle area -- I'd be tempted to follow Kathie's suggestion and go for that. It sounds as relaxing as a beach destination and so much more cultural - but someone needs to chime in on the weather that time of year for the north.
We enjoyed Chiang Mai but it really is a much larger city than most people realize.

rahulm

Hi Everyone,

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. I'm trying to gather all these and formulate a rough itinerary after I read up a bit more on the places.

On a side note, would the weather be better in Sept/Oct? I picked november almost randomly (and tried to factor in the thanksgiving vacation as extra days for holiday).

Thanks
Rahul

Cicerone

It's actually worse for Phuket as that is the monsoon season, Nov is the tail end. Vietnam is also in the monsoon then. Look at the weatherbase.com site, it is helpful for rain. Temps don't vary that much other than in Hong Kong. The latter half of Oct is nice in Hong Kong, Sept is hot and rainy and is till typhoon season.

If you aren't tied to a particular time, February is actually a very good month in many places (a bit cool and foggy here in Hong Kong but if you can come for Chinese New Year kind of interesting), but for the places on your initial itin, Feb is really ideal. Can be rainy in Bali then. It's a matter of where you want to go really, and then picking the best months.

firedrago

personally, I think Phuket is overrated

may be:
- Bangkok & Chiang Mai (for food & nice massage)
- Angkor Wat (for temples)
- KL, Malaysia (for food, shopping)
-Bali &/or Langkawi Malaysia

air asia is good and if u book it way in advance, you can get pretty cheap tix. also you can check out other budget airline operator around SEA http://www.tigerairways.com/home/
http://www.jetstar.com/index.php?lang=sgen
http://www.fly12go.com/en/main.shtml
http://www.nokair.com/nokconnext/asp...currlang=en-US

also, check out malaysia airline, sometimes they offered pretty cheap rate

I don't think you need to use travel agent to book air tix around SEA, check out those website and see if you can work out a possible route
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/hk/main.html

Gpanda

Rahul-we've been to Thailand four times around Thanksgiving and found the weather to be perfect each time. I suggest you go the last week in November and the first two in December.

I would use BKK as the hub. There are flights to everywhere in SEA from BKK. First step is to book the SFO-BKK-SFO flight. This will tell you what time you arrive and depart from BKK and it will structure your first and last day.

I would suggest that you do BKK, AW, Northern Thailand and Phuket, in that order. This will provide a combination of fascination and relaxation. However, if you book the SFO-BKK flight soon, you can take more time and ruminate over the destination pattern.

zengeos

I have just finished planning my trip, and I agree with those people here who have suggested narrowing down the itinerary.

Chiang Mai area (with Chiang Rai) minimum 5 days

Siem Reap (minimum 3 days) I'm spending a week there to go to Koh Ker and Banteay Chhmar as well since Angkor has become soooo full of tourists. So, for 2 areas, Im spending 2 of my 3 weeks visit.

To be honest, I am going to 3 other places...all in the first week, spending a day and 1/2 in each area.....ONLY because my mom just wants to go to say shes been...since she will probably never have a chance to go again....BUT one of those places is Brunei and 1 day is really just about enough to see Brunei. All the same, if you want to visit Cambodia and Chiang Rai, giv yourself more and 2 or 3 days.

Mark-

mikeesparza

I am writing this message from Phnom Penn.

Don't go to KL. Nice but very urban. I go there every year on business.

Go to Vietnam. Last year I went to HMC-Hue-DMZ-Hanoi in 5 days. Life is short ...I'd rather go quickly than not go at all. Never felt like I was rushed. Great Place.

Phnom Penn is very interesting and very worth 1 full day(no more) of you intinerary to really learn about Pol Pot and the Khemer Rouge,very disturbing but intellectually stimulating!
-take a 5 hr bus to Siem Reap for Angkor Wat-fly out from there.

Bangkok is good for 1 day. Too smogy and congested. Get out of the city! I never went to CHiang Mai but I hear it's nice!

If your a working person, spend less time in many of the destinations and see more places. In reality you probably won't be back that way again!

SallyJ

I would not suggest Kuala Lumpur if you have a limited amount of time. It is a very large cosmopolitan city and apart from the good food, I don't think it was worth it. I found it very hard to find the charm and history of the city.

Singapore is also a very large city. At least it does have sections of the city that are interesting to visit, but I would suggest more time in the various parts of Thailand.

rahulm

Hi Everyone,

I created a basic itinerary based on your suggestions. Instead of trying to pack a lot I've tried to keep it simple.

11/15/07: Leave for Bangkok, Thailand
11/16/07: Arrive Bangkok. Relax for the rest of the day.
11/17/07: Bangkok sightseeing
11/18/07: Bangkok sightseeing
11/19/07: Day trip to Ayuthaya (train?)
11/20/07: Bangkok Sightseeing
11/21/07: Leave for Chiang Mai (morning), spend rest of the day in Chiang Mai
11/22/07: Sightseeing in Chiang Mai
11/23/07: Chiang Mai
11/24/07: Go to Siem Reap, Cambodia
11/25/07: Siem Reap (Angkor Wat)
11/26/07: Siem Reap (Angkor Wat)
11/27/07: Siem Reap (Bantey Srei)
11/28/07: Siem Reap (Lake village)
11/29/07: Go to Phuket/Ko Samui, Hua Hin
11/30/07: Phuket / Ko Samui / Hua Hin
12/1/07: Phuket / Ko Samui / Hua Hin
12/3/07: Return to Bangkok and

Somehow, I still feel something is lacking/not right. Can't pinpoint what.

Could someone also suggest where to go between Phuket / Ko Samui / Hua Hin? Someplace which is relaxing. Just sit relax and enjoy the natural views.

Also, I could extend ~2-3 days to the trip but not sure which place to add. LP seemed interesting but am not sure which flights fly there now. I've read here that Bangkokair stopped flying there and the reports on Laos Airlines is not the best. I could be wrong.

Look forward to your comments and suggestions.

Thanks a lot!
Rahul

Gpanda

Phuket/Krabi will have better weather than Ko Samui or Hua Hin in late November. Otherwise, your itinerary looks pretty good. I suggest that you have two days in BKk at the end of your trip. You can just adjust everything up one day. Also, if you're interested in using a popular guide in BKK, e.g., Tong, you should arrange the date as soon as possible.

zengeos

I'll be visiting both Banteay Chmar and Koh Ker in a few weeks. I will post my thoughts on these places when I return mid April.

Mark-

zengeos

One other thing...

If I had the time I would have started in Bangkok, flown to Chiang Mai, driven or to Chiang Rai, takn the slow boat to Luang Prabang, flown to Siem Reap, and either flown or gone overland back to Bangkok.

A 20 day trip would go something like this...

Day 1 nad 2 Bangkok, day 3-5 Chiang Mai, Day 6 Chiang Rai. Day 7-8 boat to luang Prabang. Day 9-12 Luang Prabang Day 13 fly to Siem Reap. Day 14-18 Angkor and surroundings Day 19-20 back to Bangkok


Nice circle route...always moving forward, etc...The slow boat could be your relaxing time, just enoying a relaxing cruise down the river, yet enjoying beautiful scenery.

Mark-

Kathie

I find Luang Prabang absolutely magical. Bangkok Air does, indeed fly there (from Bangkok).

If it were me, I'd cut Chiang Mai and add in Luang Prabang, at least 3 days, preferably 5.

I'd also cut Ayuthaya as it will be a dissappointemnt on the same trip as Angkor.

zengeos

Kathie,

Some people have said they prefer Chiang Rai over Chiang Mai. Air Asia ffers flights to Chiang Rai. to start the Laos tour there. I just think the slowboat river cruise and guesthouse stay sounds so nice. If I had the time I would have done that.

Mark-

Kathie

Zengeos, Yes, I'm one of those who much prefers the Golden Triangle area over Chiang Mai.