Review My 23 Day Japan Itinerary
Feb 26th, 2017, 08:59 PM
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Review My 23 Day Japan Itinerary
Hi,
My wife and I are visiting Japan for the first time in May 17 and will spend 23 days. Based on 23 day's we are going to concentrate our visit in Central/Southern Japan and leave the North for another visit. A rough itinerary is outlined below. We are thinking of hiring a car in Hakone and driving to Kamikoch, Takayama, Kanaazawa then dropping the car in Osaka. We are not sure if we should visit or bypass Kyoto as we will have had 8 day's in big cities (Tokyo/Osaka). We want to combine the excitement of the big cities with the remarkable countryside and the Alp. Any advice on the suitability of the itinerary and best method of traveling would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Phil
Tokyo 6 nights
Hokone 1night
Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 1 Nights
Osaka 2 Nights
Mount Koyo 1 or 2 Nights
Kyoto 2 nights or not GO
Matsue 1 nights prior to Oki Island
Oki Island 2 Nights
Hiroshima 2 nights
Narita 1 night prior to departure
My wife and I are visiting Japan for the first time in May 17 and will spend 23 days. Based on 23 day's we are going to concentrate our visit in Central/Southern Japan and leave the North for another visit. A rough itinerary is outlined below. We are thinking of hiring a car in Hakone and driving to Kamikoch, Takayama, Kanaazawa then dropping the car in Osaka. We are not sure if we should visit or bypass Kyoto as we will have had 8 day's in big cities (Tokyo/Osaka). We want to combine the excitement of the big cities with the remarkable countryside and the Alp. Any advice on the suitability of the itinerary and best method of traveling would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Phil
Tokyo 6 nights
Hokone 1night
Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 1 Nights
Osaka 2 Nights
Mount Koyo 1 or 2 Nights
Kyoto 2 nights or not GO
Matsue 1 nights prior to Oki Island
Oki Island 2 Nights
Hiroshima 2 nights
Narita 1 night prior to departure
Feb 26th, 2017, 11:20 PM
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A few thoughts:
The choice to rent a car might serve you well, but public transportation in Japan is SO good that it is not an obvious choice. Having a car can offer a freedom not otherwise available and a chance to see places that are not readily visited via public transportation, and certainly, there are times when I choose to rent a car, too! But there are disadvantages to having a car, too. As examples:
- Some of those “oh, doesn’t that look charming!” places aren’t actually that charming, and by the time you get back on the road, you can end up with less time than might be ideal for visiting the places that were your priorities.
- Driving can be stressful – and I say that as someone who loves driving! But some roads are challenging, unexpected detours or GPS failures can be a bit daunting, and driving into cities (and finding parking) can make the last part of a long trip less than pleasant.
- Driving – or at least responsible driving – can also pose constraints on the driver. For example, the driver may be unable to truly enjoy spectacular scenery, as s/he needs to pay attention to the road -- sometimes, very careful attention! And depending on how much one eats and one’s size and and how long one relaxes over a meal, even a glass of wine with lunch may carry risks.
- Driving is generally not a particularly green choice – and for some of us, that is a worthy consideration.
- And one of the best things about taking public transportation: It can sometimes give you wonderful opportunities to interact with people from the area, or gain insights into local norms and traditions.
The decision to bypass Kyoto is also not an obvious choice – in fact, many find Kyoto the highlight of their time in Japan, as it has more extensive options for exploring “traditional” Japan than just about any other place in the country. Yes, it is a big city, but that doesn’t mean that visiting it is anything like visiting Tokyo. And if you have gotten the impression that visiting Kyoto and visiting Tokyo (or Osaka) are similar, then I would very strongly encourage you to do a bit more research -- it would seem that the sources with which you are working are not providing very clear information.
Some specific comments on your proposed itinerary:
• 6 nights seems a LOT for Tokyo, given the length of your trip. Of course, that might be intentional, either because of interests you have in the city or because of day trips you wish to take….
• The combination of Takayama and Kanazawa does not, IME, fit well into a 3-night frame. I think that pair of cities better suited to 5 nights. JMO – but you might want to make sure that you can actually see what you want to see in these places in the time you give them begfore you commit.
• Unless you have a very specific reason for visiting Osaka, and if you want to limit your time in big cities, that would be a place you might want to cut.
• I don’t think I’m unusual in saying that I thought 6 full days a bare minimum for a first visit to Kyoto / Nara. (By way of contrast, many people give Tokyo just 2 or 3 days to make sure that they have sufficient time in Kyoto / Nara.)
• For your visit to Hiroshima, consider spending the night in Miyajima.
Do you already have your flights? If not, book into Narita and out of Kansai (or vice versa) to avoid backtracking.
And as you consider adjusting your plans, note that the Kamagawa Odori will be performed in Kyoto through 24 May. It is well worth seeing, IMO.
If you haven’t already done so, spend lots and lots of time with japan-guide.com
Hope that helps!
The choice to rent a car might serve you well, but public transportation in Japan is SO good that it is not an obvious choice. Having a car can offer a freedom not otherwise available and a chance to see places that are not readily visited via public transportation, and certainly, there are times when I choose to rent a car, too! But there are disadvantages to having a car, too. As examples:
- Some of those “oh, doesn’t that look charming!” places aren’t actually that charming, and by the time you get back on the road, you can end up with less time than might be ideal for visiting the places that were your priorities.
- Driving can be stressful – and I say that as someone who loves driving! But some roads are challenging, unexpected detours or GPS failures can be a bit daunting, and driving into cities (and finding parking) can make the last part of a long trip less than pleasant.
- Driving – or at least responsible driving – can also pose constraints on the driver. For example, the driver may be unable to truly enjoy spectacular scenery, as s/he needs to pay attention to the road -- sometimes, very careful attention! And depending on how much one eats and one’s size and and how long one relaxes over a meal, even a glass of wine with lunch may carry risks.
- Driving is generally not a particularly green choice – and for some of us, that is a worthy consideration.
- And one of the best things about taking public transportation: It can sometimes give you wonderful opportunities to interact with people from the area, or gain insights into local norms and traditions.
The decision to bypass Kyoto is also not an obvious choice – in fact, many find Kyoto the highlight of their time in Japan, as it has more extensive options for exploring “traditional” Japan than just about any other place in the country. Yes, it is a big city, but that doesn’t mean that visiting it is anything like visiting Tokyo. And if you have gotten the impression that visiting Kyoto and visiting Tokyo (or Osaka) are similar, then I would very strongly encourage you to do a bit more research -- it would seem that the sources with which you are working are not providing very clear information.
Some specific comments on your proposed itinerary:
• 6 nights seems a LOT for Tokyo, given the length of your trip. Of course, that might be intentional, either because of interests you have in the city or because of day trips you wish to take….
• The combination of Takayama and Kanazawa does not, IME, fit well into a 3-night frame. I think that pair of cities better suited to 5 nights. JMO – but you might want to make sure that you can actually see what you want to see in these places in the time you give them begfore you commit.
• Unless you have a very specific reason for visiting Osaka, and if you want to limit your time in big cities, that would be a place you might want to cut.
• I don’t think I’m unusual in saying that I thought 6 full days a bare minimum for a first visit to Kyoto / Nara. (By way of contrast, many people give Tokyo just 2 or 3 days to make sure that they have sufficient time in Kyoto / Nara.)
• For your visit to Hiroshima, consider spending the night in Miyajima.
Do you already have your flights? If not, book into Narita and out of Kansai (or vice versa) to avoid backtracking.
And as you consider adjusting your plans, note that the Kamagawa Odori will be performed in Kyoto through 24 May. It is well worth seeing, IMO.
If you haven’t already done so, spend lots and lots of time with japan-guide.com
Hope that helps!
Feb 27th, 2017, 12:06 AM
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Thanks kja,
All good points re car hire. The only reason I was considering car hire was getting from Hakone to the Alps around Kamacochi, Takayama areas would require back tracking to Tokyo and not a lot of public transport is in remote areas. We intend to do 2-3 day trips while in Tokyo so 6 days allowed for both day trips and to explore Tokyo. We fly in and out of Tokyo.
We only have pre paid accomodation in Tokyo so we have 17 days to travel anywhere we want. Not having being to Japan I'm trying to put an itinerary that will give us the old, new, countryside etc. Maybe I'm trying to cram too many locations. Do you have any advise on 23 day itinerary less 6 nights Tokyo.
Thanks so much.
Phil
All good points re car hire. The only reason I was considering car hire was getting from Hakone to the Alps around Kamacochi, Takayama areas would require back tracking to Tokyo and not a lot of public transport is in remote areas. We intend to do 2-3 day trips while in Tokyo so 6 days allowed for both day trips and to explore Tokyo. We fly in and out of Tokyo.
We only have pre paid accomodation in Tokyo so we have 17 days to travel anywhere we want. Not having being to Japan I'm trying to put an itinerary that will give us the old, new, countryside etc. Maybe I'm trying to cram too many locations. Do you have any advise on 23 day itinerary less 6 nights Tokyo.
Thanks so much.
Phil
Feb 27th, 2017, 07:20 AM
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More time in Kyoto. Don't know why you picked 2 nights for Osaka instead of Kyoto. The "big cities" notion is a false construct - cities are not interchangeable.
I'd seriously look into a flight for Matsue - that's a haul from wherever else you're thinking of.
I'd seriously look into a flight for Matsue - that's a haul from wherever else you're thinking of.
Feb 27th, 2017, 01:57 PM
#7
From Tokyo take the Odakyu train from Shinjuku to Hakone-Yumoto. Return on Odakyu to Shinjuku and transfer to a limited express train to Matsumoto. Visit the castle. You could spend night in Matsumoto.
You can hire a car in Matsumoto and drive across to Kanazawa. Or you can take buses or you could bus/drive to Takayama and then train to Kanazawa.
You are cramming in a lot.
The 2 nights for Kamikochi is good, but 1 night would be ok. You could just stop there for a few hours on the way between Matsumoto and Takayama. Nn cars are permitted in Kamikochi so you would have to deal with that if you didn't take the buses.
You want 2 nights in Takayama. At least 2 nights in Kanazawa.
I haven't heard of Oki-jima before. Looks like it has fair interest. It is not a 1st trip stop, imo. But I can't believe that you would use Matsue simply as a stop on the way to Oki. Matsue needs at least two nights to see the city and visit Izumo Taisha.
Two nights for Koyasan is at least one night too many.
You can drop Osaka. I think 6 nights for Kyoto/Nara is too much.
You can hire a car in Matsumoto and drive across to Kanazawa. Or you can take buses or you could bus/drive to Takayama and then train to Kanazawa.
You are cramming in a lot.
The 2 nights for Kamikochi is good, but 1 night would be ok. You could just stop there for a few hours on the way between Matsumoto and Takayama. Nn cars are permitted in Kamikochi so you would have to deal with that if you didn't take the buses.
You want 2 nights in Takayama. At least 2 nights in Kanazawa.
I haven't heard of Oki-jima before. Looks like it has fair interest. It is not a 1st trip stop, imo. But I can't believe that you would use Matsue simply as a stop on the way to Oki. Matsue needs at least two nights to see the city and visit Izumo Taisha.
Two nights for Koyasan is at least one night too many.
You can drop Osaka. I think 6 nights for Kyoto/Nara is too much.
Feb 27th, 2017, 02:22 PM
#8
Tokyo 6 nights
Hokone 1 night
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 3 Nights
Kyoto 3 nights
Matsue 2 nights
Oki Island 1 Night, if you must
Hiroshima 1 nights
Miyajima 1 night
Fly Hiroshima to Narita 1 night prior to departure
Or you could skip Kanazawa or skip Takayama.
Hokone 1 night
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 3 Nights
Kyoto 3 nights
Matsue 2 nights
Oki Island 1 Night, if you must
Hiroshima 1 nights
Miyajima 1 night
Fly Hiroshima to Narita 1 night prior to departure
Or you could skip Kanazawa or skip Takayama.
Feb 27th, 2017, 05:00 PM
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"kja ... Do you have any advise on 23 day itinerary less 6 nights Tokyo."
Already offered above (and not repeated here) -- see my first response above, after my comments on a car vs. the train.
As you see, some of us have different opinions about what we've seen and done -- and that is, IMO, as it should be: We travel with different interests and at different paces! Vive la difference!
- I can easily imagine enjoying 2 nights on Koyasan (although 1 night is sufficient for most people).
- I spent 4 full days in Kyoto and 2 full days in Nara, up early and on the move until there was, quite literally, nothing else I could do on any given day, and I would have liked more time there.
Hope that helps!
Already offered above (and not repeated here) -- see my first response above, after my comments on a car vs. the train.
As you see, some of us have different opinions about what we've seen and done -- and that is, IMO, as it should be: We travel with different interests and at different paces! Vive la difference!
- I can easily imagine enjoying 2 nights on Koyasan (although 1 night is sufficient for most people).
- I spent 4 full days in Kyoto and 2 full days in Nara, up early and on the move until there was, quite literally, nothing else I could do on any given day, and I would have liked more time there.
Hope that helps!
Feb 27th, 2017, 05:37 PM
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I've not been to the Oki Islands either (though I have been all along that coast). But if there was something about them that caught your interest then I'd encourage you to go. Japan is full of interesting sights and places but very few of them are must-sees. I think you'll get much more satisfaction visiting an off-the-beaten-path location that piques your particular interests than visiting one of the standard destinations (that are, IMO, not significantly better than dozens of alternatives).
Feb 28th, 2017, 11:00 AM
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Hi,
Thanks for everybody's recommendations and opinions, greatly appreciated as a first time traveller to Japan. I've modified itinerary, see below. I came across the Tateyama Alpine Way on the web and it looks very interesting. Is it viable to incorporate Alpine Way with Kamacochi and Takayama before travelling to Kanazawa?
Thanks
Phil
Tokyo 6 nights
(day trip Hakone)
Tateyama Alpine Route
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 3 Nights
Kyoto 4 nights (day trip to Osaka & Hiroshima)
Mount Koyo 1 night
Matsue 2 nights
Miyajima 2 nights
Fly Hiroshima to Narita 1 night prior to departure
Thanks for everybody's recommendations and opinions, greatly appreciated as a first time traveller to Japan. I've modified itinerary, see below. I came across the Tateyama Alpine Way on the web and it looks very interesting. Is it viable to incorporate Alpine Way with Kamacochi and Takayama before travelling to Kanazawa?
Thanks
Phil
Tokyo 6 nights
(day trip Hakone)
Tateyama Alpine Route
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
Kanazawa 3 Nights
Kyoto 4 nights (day trip to Osaka & Hiroshima)
Mount Koyo 1 night
Matsue 2 nights
Miyajima 2 nights
Fly Hiroshima to Narita 1 night prior to departure
Feb 28th, 2017, 11:54 AM
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I took the Alpine Route (as far as the snow canyon) a few years back soon after it opened for the season (mid April). I greatly enjoyed the snow canyon but I wasn't too impressed by the rest of the scenery (I thought Kamikochi was better). I suggest you try to find out how much of the snow canyon will be left by the time you will be there. The transportation was packed with tour groups.
I started from Toyama which is a bit out of the way for you. But it might by viable to do a round trip as far as the snow canyon from the other end (Shinano Omachi), which is a 1-hour train ride from Matsumoto.
I started from Toyama which is a bit out of the way for you. But it might by viable to do a round trip as far as the snow canyon from the other end (Shinano Omachi), which is a 1-hour train ride from Matsumoto.
Feb 28th, 2017, 12:10 PM
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Actually, Toyama to Takayama isn't bad (90 minutes), so you might be able to do
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Matsumoto to Shinano Omachi, Tateyama Alpine Route, Toyama to Takeyama
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
but you'd need to read the timetables very carefully.
Matsumoto and Kamikochi 2 nights
Matsumoto to Shinano Omachi, Tateyama Alpine Route, Toyama to Takeyama
Takayama Hida-Takayama 2 nights
but you'd need to read the timetables very carefully.
Feb 28th, 2017, 03:21 PM
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I think it makes sense to pair Hiroshima and Miyajima. And if you are going to Miyajima, I don't think it makes much sense to day trip to Hiroshima from Kyoto.
BTW, my understanding is that the experience of Koyasan varies tremendously with one's selection of temple. I was very pleased with Shojoshin-in, which still gets great reviews and which several other Fodorites have also enjoyed. The other temple that seems to get particularly good reviews is Eko-in.
BTW, my understanding is that the experience of Koyasan varies tremendously with one's selection of temple. I was very pleased with Shojoshin-in, which still gets great reviews and which several other Fodorites have also enjoyed. The other temple that seems to get particularly good reviews is Eko-in.
Mar 3rd, 2017, 07:15 AM
#17
You don't really need to have Hiroshima as a day trip from Kyoto because you can visit there at the end. Himeji & Osaka day trip would work instead. Osaka doesn't really need to be on your itinerary unless you have a specific interest there. Or just spend the day in Kyoto.
Koyasan to Matsue is 6+ hours. Instead of the day trip from Kyoto you could go to Koyasan a day earlier. Travel from Koya to Okayama with a stop in Osaka and some time for Okayama or Himeji. Next day travel from Okayama to Matsue.
Koyasan to Matsue is 6+ hours. Instead of the day trip from Kyoto you could go to Koyasan a day earlier. Travel from Koya to Okayama with a stop in Osaka and some time for Okayama or Himeji. Next day travel from Okayama to Matsue.
Mar 3rd, 2017, 05:47 PM
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If I read you literally, you're planning a one day trip that includes BOTH Osaka and Hiroshima? I don't think that's very feasible or pleasant. Hiroshima alone would be a long day trip from Kyoto, much less throwing in Osaka. And then later on, you head back south again to spend 2 nights on Miyajima. (good choice).
I'd skip Osaka. While I haven not yet been there, I've yet to see a Fodorite who considers it even a mild priority. My plan for April is to simply train over there in the early evening from Kyoto and have dinner in Dotumburi and walk around and see the lights.
MORE TIME FOR KYOTO!
3 nights for Tokyo is plenty. Give 2 more nights of it to Kyoto and one overnight for Hakone. If you are lucky in May, you still may have snowcap on Mt. Fuji. (Perhaps the most awe-inspiring sight of my travel life--right up there with my first glimpse of the Eiffel Tower and of the Hagia Sophia.)
I think the rest of your itinerary looks good.
I'd skip Osaka. While I haven not yet been there, I've yet to see a Fodorite who considers it even a mild priority. My plan for April is to simply train over there in the early evening from Kyoto and have dinner in Dotumburi and walk around and see the lights.
MORE TIME FOR KYOTO!
3 nights for Tokyo is plenty. Give 2 more nights of it to Kyoto and one overnight for Hakone. If you are lucky in May, you still may have snowcap on Mt. Fuji. (Perhaps the most awe-inspiring sight of my travel life--right up there with my first glimpse of the Eiffel Tower and of the Hagia Sophia.)
I think the rest of your itinerary looks good.
Mar 4th, 2017, 07:41 AM
#19
In early April, Osaka is a priority for me for the cherry blossoms at Kema Sakuranomiya Park which japan-guide lists among the "best of the best" in Japan with 5000 trees. Also for Osakajo Koen (4000 trees), a "best of Japan" as are twod other sites in Osaka. If you learn the history of Osaka castle then it is worth a visit, and it is a nice museum with some items of local history. Am also planning to go to an okonomiyaki restaurant that the concierge at the Westin Osaka recommended to me the last time I was there. Oishii
But, I didn't visit Osaka until my 8th trip to Japan. I had specific interests there, was flying into KIX, and was not going to Kyoto.
But, I didn't visit Osaka until my 8th trip to Japan. I had specific interests there, was flying into KIX, and was not going to Kyoto.
Mar 4th, 2017, 02:23 PM
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Hiroshima Airport (HIJ) is quite a long way from Hiroshima; there's a direct bus or a more difficult train+bus connection via Shiraichi.
Rather than fly from there to an overnight at NRT, I'd suggest you overnight at HIJ itself then fly on to your connection at NRT the day of your international flight. There's a decent hotel in walking distance of the terminal--I've used it.
If you haven't booked your international flights yet, HIJ is closer to Seoul (ICN) than NRT and flying via ICN is often more convenient and always cheaper. You can do an open jaw: XXX-TYO/HIJ-ICN-XXX.
Incidentally, HIJ is on a flattened mountaintop with a spectacular girder construction carrying landing lights (I assume) way out over the adjacent valley. A sight in itself.
Rather than fly from there to an overnight at NRT, I'd suggest you overnight at HIJ itself then fly on to your connection at NRT the day of your international flight. There's a decent hotel in walking distance of the terminal--I've used it.
If you haven't booked your international flights yet, HIJ is closer to Seoul (ICN) than NRT and flying via ICN is often more convenient and always cheaper. You can do an open jaw: XXX-TYO/HIJ-ICN-XXX.
Incidentally, HIJ is on a flattened mountaintop with a spectacular girder construction carrying landing lights (I assume) way out over the adjacent valley. A sight in itself.
