Return to Japan & first visits to Singapore & Bangkok

This looks like a good itinerary. You're spending enough time in each place to get a flavor for it.

You should have enough time to get dresses made at Cotton House. Do get started with them your first day. Centre Point Silom has a great location. Ask for a river view room.

Whether to just stay in SIngapore or to combine it with somewhere else really has to do with your interests. I can find plenty to do in Singapore to keep me busy.

You may have seen my trip report on Penang. If not, do take a look at it. I wouldn't go to Penang for beaches, but to visit historic Georgetown and eat the fabulous food and stay at the E&O it's great.

I'll go ahead and provide some background info. I'm a married with teenage kids but often travel solo. This year I traveled for about the same time period, starting in Paris (with a very brief side trip to Milan, followed by Tokyo, and ending in Puebla, Mexico. Most of that trip was solo, and all of this one will be (except for meeting up with friends along the way). Since I spent very little time outside Tokyo last visit ((trip effectively cut short by food poisoning---I won't be eating takoyaki again anytime soon) I decided to return and figured this would also be a good time to visit a woman from Malysia that I met in London a couple of months ago.

My interests are food and day-to-day culture. I tend to prefer smaller museums about odd subjects. I like to dance (swing, waltz, etc.). I'm price-aware (my flights are awards) but have upmarket tastes (all but one leg of the trip is business/first). I like walking but not hiking, and will camp if I don't have to deal with the planning and packing. I like trains. Very fair-skinned, so I stay in the shade at the beach or pool. I travel very light and usually do carry-on only (but a high maintenance, dressy sort of traveling light).

Glad to hear that Centre Point Silom is a good option, Kathie. I booked through agoda and requested a river view. I'm planning on making Cotton House my very first stop in Bangkok, very likely followed by a visit to a spa my Malaysian friend recommended called (I think) Health Land. She's also checking with her Bangkok colleagues for tailors. I'm also thinking about shopping for jewelry/stones, although it's not something with which I have any experience.

I did see your thread about Georgetown and was considering the E&O. I'm also thinking about the museum there that doubles as a B&B. I can't recall the name, but it's a bright blue house that belonged to a Chinese merchant. If I do visit Georgetown my friend will probably join me there. If I don't then she'll come to Singapore (she works in Kuala Lumpur).

The Cheong Fatt-Tse Mansion is the place you are thinking of. Do go see it when in are in Penang. Personally, I wouldn't want to stay there after having seen the rooms (pretty basic). I was able to book the E&O on their website for half price. Given the economy, I'll bet you can get a great price there. Check Agoda and other booking sites, but I found the E&O's own site had the best price at the time.

If you want a recommendation for a jeweler in Bangkok, let me know. I have a jeweler there I've been buying from for over 20 years.

Yes, please, a jeweller for whom you can vouch would be terrific.

I need to get in touch my KL friend and see where she'd rather meet.

In any case I'll be staying at least one night in Singapore, and the experience of shopping for hotels there is not nearly so pleasant as it is for Bangkok. Even higher end properties don't get ringing endorsements, and there's not nearly as much value for money. Raffles is an option, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to feel just a wee bit like a set piece. So far the most promising looks to be the new Ibis near Little India.

Any thoughts?

looks like a good layout to the trip...

you will like CP silom...its well located and right next door to the skytrain and cotton house is easy to reach....take the oriental boats from the hotel boat dock---ask CP where that is...

Google maps looks like it shows the Oriental's pier. I haven't yet looked too closely at how the ferries operate. Does the Oriental have its own boats? Are they nicer? Can just anybody ride them?

Each of the hotels has their own boats that run between the hotel and the central pier below the Skytrain stop. Both Cotton House and the Skytrain stop are easy walking distance from the Centrepoint SIlom.

My Jeweler: The jeweler I've been using for the last 20 years: SJ International, 125/8 Sawankhalok Road, Dusit, Bangkok, phone 02-2342446, 02-2342447, 02-2411875

Call them and they will pick you up at your hotel and return you to your hotel after your shopping.

Ask for Lily and tell her that Kathie from Seattle sent you. That will get you an immediate price reduction.

Peninsula boats are actually the nicest, IMO. All of the boats are just fine for the short ride you will take. There are wooden bench style seats along the sides. Some offer cushions, but I think most don't. (Pen boats have some nicer cushioned chairs) Yes, you can ride any of them... free! I like to take the hotel boats to the individual hotels where I then have a coffee or tea or cold drink, and check out the pools/lobbies, etc.

The Oriental boatdock is near their nice riverside restaurant. A nice lunch place if you happen to be hungry, or a refreshing tea or soft drink. I don't recall their open hours. Maybe someone else will chime in with that information.

I agree that Center Point will be just fine for your stay in Bangkok.

Carol

bookmarking

hmm, you will need to pack for two different climates. cold in japan, and hot in the other places. sushi should be prime in jan. have fun.

Kathie: thanks very much for the info re Lily at SJ. As if I needed another expensive habit...

Carol st al: The boats sound terrific. I love being able to use boats as transit.

kuranosuke: No worries when it comes to packing for radically different climates, particularly as the range so closely mimics winter and summer here in Atlanta (temps in the high 30s, humidity approaching 100%). As I'll likely do at least one leg on Air Asia and their carry-on limit is 7 kg I'm resigned to checking a bag at that point and so probably will for the last flight home as well if my purchases exceed my carry-on allowance.

The biggest hassle will be my winter coat. I've looked into stowing it in a locker at NRT on my way to SIN and then picking it up on my way home from BKK during a layover at NRT. Unfortunately the lockers are all landside and my layover is quite brief (an hour or so). Maybe I'll just ship it home from NRT.

In addition to having clothes made in Bangkok I was considering doing some shopping off the rack, possibly at British India. I assume that I'll be at the top of the size range but it would be good to know if it's at all feasible. I'm 167 cm tall and wear a U.S. size 4 or 6 (up from a 2--- this aging thing is sort of tedious).

note: depending on the hotel boats run sort of on a schedule, except for the peninsula which runs continually...basically every 1/2 hour for most and every 15 minutes for the marriott..

just get on and off the boat of your choice...note there is a seperate pier for hotel boats....sometimes they use two piers...there is a guard there usually...

And the purpose of the guard is to...?

I looked into shipping my winter gear back from NRT and it looks like a reasonable option. For about USD 10 I can ship as a "small parcel" via economy airmail (SAL). Max weight 2 kg, max linear dimensions 90 cm. I can send my gloves, scarf, and earmuffs along for the ride.

In addition to the hotel boats, do take the water taxis. Perhaps more accurately called water buses, they are a cheap and efficient mode of transport. There is also a tourist boat, which I studiously avoid, preferring to rub shoulders with the locals. It's an entirely different "on the river" experience from the hotel boats. The Water taxi will be the most efficient way to got to places Like Wat Po, Wat Arun, the Emerald Buddha/Grand Palace complex, etc.

The Le Meridien is new, and new is what usually gets good reviews on Trip Advisor.

It's not clear to me exactly how close the hotel is to a skytrain station, but given that the written description of the location emphasizes how close the hotel is to Patpong (a red light district) and says that Chinatown is a 15 minute tuk tuk ride away(no one in their right mind would ride a tuk tuk that far - you'd be asphixiated!), I'm guessing it isn't close. This is the first time I've seen the tuk tuk referred to as venerable... so this should tell you something about the copywriter

Whoops! Post re Le Meridien is for Nena, I think.

the hotel is about 1/3 of the way up the road from the river end of the street....

the guard is to keep things flowing normally....to direct people....this is a very busy place... there are several piers in the area...

I guess you are spending the night of Jan 2 in Tokyo and then leave your warm weather bag at the hotel and get it when you return on the 9th.

I was in Japan at the beginning of January a few years ago and when I saw your dates I thought of Shirakawago.

After visiting Bangkok, I went to Seoul for a few days and flew from there to Toyama, Japan. From there I visited Kanazawa and then traveled to Ogimachi, Shirakawago.

The trip was by train to Takaoka and then a bus (2+ hours) up into the mountains. There was only four feet of snow, IIRC, in Shirakawago, and it was marvelous. I stayed at a gassho zukuri. They had plenty of snowboots (very necessary) for guests to use, and I was the only guest. Instead of cooking we (the mother, father, daughter, and I) went to an onsen for a soak and dinner in a restaurant. I stayed at this place:
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/ogimachi/H49500.html

There is a museum in the village and a couple of houses can be visited. There is a hill with a great view of the village in the valley. I got up there via the kindness of a couple of locals, but there is also a loop bus. It is a magical place, but, because of the bus rides, you have to really want to go there as it would be a one-night or two-night max visit.

I think there was a plan to upgrade the road between Shirakawago and Takayama, so maybe it is open all winter now.

There is a grand sumo tournament in Tokyo in January and it will be on every day that you are in Japan. Catch some on TV, at least.

What do you have in mind for "Japan, not Tokyo"? Kyoto is an obvious, and very worthwhile, destination.

Are you interested in winter sports?

Some update to provide re the middle portion of the trip: by friend from KL used to live in Singapore and she's eager to show it off. So no Penang this visit. Not much luck with finding the perfect hotel yet, but it's early days and many places haven't even posted their Jan 2010 rates yet.

Could somebody familiar with British India care to weigh in on the question of my size (5'6", US size 6) vs BI off the rack items? It's okay to tell me that I'm a lumbering a lumbering giantess and should just skip the humiliation.

You should be fine with British India off the rack! I am a size 8-10 and have no problems when trying things on, but I go for the large(r/est) sizes on the rack. This is in Bangkok. I am tall though, so buying any sort of pants in BKK is nearly impossible!
Carol

I prefer dresses and skirts, so should be fine. Oh boy, cool clothes, can't wait...

As mrwunrful's post upthread suggests, it's finally time to talk about Japan.

My first and only trip to date was in January 2009. I'd been wanting to visit for pretty much forever and was prompted to finally do so by the realization that Delta was going to be increasing their prices for award tickets. So I decided to do a RTW itinerary for (I think) 140K miles, except that the direct ticket (in coach) was only 95K. Clearly this was destiny calling.

Most people would have toured a bit, but I decided to stay in Tokyo the whole time and do some day trips. One of those trips was to Kyoto, with the evening and dinner in Osaka and then a night train (remember upthread when I said I like trains?) back to Tokyo (in a nobinobi seat/couchette). Unfortunately I got food poisoning the day before the trio, so although I did make it to Kyoto I did not go on to Osaka, or take the night train.

I did make it to Odawara to meet an ex-pat American woman (that I'd met on line at another forum) who married a Japanese man and is now very much a Japanese housewife. We went to a very elaborate sort of hot springs water park called Yunnesun and later to the extremely pleasant onsen (lovely rotenburo). I also saw lots of sights in Tokyo and went out dancing a couple of nights.

I stayed in a small apartment in Nakano, just outside the Yamanote line at Shinjuku. Very, um, Japanese.

So, in response to mrwunrful's query re my interest in wintertime sports, none whatsoever. I used to diwnhill ski, but that was largely for my children's benefit. I liked cross country skiing the couple of times I tried it, but since my husband doesn't the opportunity rarely presented itsef and I'm now officially old enough to stop skiing entirely. My family will be skiing somewhere out while I'm in Japan, as it turns out.

A stay in a gassho zukuri, on the other hand, particularly in the snowy dead of winter is exactly my cup of tea, so thanks for recommending this one in particular.

As for other stops I haven't quite decided. I will most likely not stay the first in Tokyo, instead heading directly to Kyoto (in which I should have flown into KIX but never mind that now). Other wish list locales include Nikko and Osaka and Nara and...

Hmmm, may need to do some thinking about this. It would be nice if I could fit a night train in there somewhere.

What time of day do you land at Tokyo NRT?

There are some sleeper trains from Tokyo south around 10PM. You can take one to Okayama and then, in the morning, get on the shinkansen to Hakata. That is the best part of the shinkansen south of Tokyo (haven't been on the bit in Kyushu). The train goes through several tunnels and good scenery. The shinkansen reaches top speed along that way, fastest in the country I believe. From Hakata to Nagasaki the limited express Kamome trains are very nice.

Kumamoto to Beppu via Aso is also an interesting trip - in the spring, anyway, when it is green. Very rural. These are locals or rapid trains, maybe a limited express.

The 10PM-ish sleeper train Ltd Express Sunrise Izumo from Tokyo goes on from Okayama to Kurashiki to arrive in Matsue at 9:30. Matsue is an interesting city with a wonderful small castle. That train also goes on to terminate in Izumo-shi. Izumo is home to a very famous and stunning Shinto shrine called Izumo Taisha. It is one of the places to go for your wedding. Izumo is only 20 or 30 minutes from Matsue, so a lot of the wedding parties stay in Matsue and a couple of hotels cater to those parties. Weather might not be good there in January, though, as it is on the San-in coast of the Nihon Kai (Sea of Japan).

After a springtime visit to Kanazawa, I rode south to Kyoto and enjoyed the ride with some nice views of a lake. Not something to go out of your way for, but if you were able to go from Tokyo to Takayama to Shirakawago, then you could go to Kanazawa via Takaoka and on to Kyoto.

If Takayama doesn't have winter buses to Shirakawago, then you can go northwest through Nagano-ken by train to Takaoka. You can find an onsen town to make a stop along the way.

Another train ride I enjoyed very much was from Matsumoto to Nagano. The train goes along a ridge with great views of the trip ahead and of the valley that holds Nagano city.

North of Tokyo, the shinkansen has nice views of the rice paddies, but I don't remember if they would be before Sendai or after or both.

There is a night train north that goes to Sapporo, I think. Might get off at Hakodate to visit and then go on to Noboribetsu Onsen and Sapporo. Fly from there to Osaka.

I think Nikko would be a good visit. You might be able to get a bus from NRT to Utsunomiya and then train to Nikko. Train all the way from NRT might be faster.

Notice that I have not mentioned Kyoto yet and realize that you mentioned it and nearby places. I will leave help with Kyoto to others. But thought I would mention more of "Japan, not Tokyo" (and not Kyoto).

My flight is due in to NRT at 4:40 PM. So plenty of time to get through the formalities and turn in my voucher for my JR pass and catch the Narita Express into Tokyo to hook up with the Sunrise Izumu. Heck, I could fit in a shower and dinner as well.

But here's my concern: will there be a place available? I'd prefer a private sleeper (9,500 yen supplement on top of the JR pass, though would consider a nobinobi berth as well.

The alternatives were either Kyoto (about as far as I could get by shinkansen) or Nikko, except that the timing seemed pretty tight if I wanted to stay anywhere other than a business-style hotel ( though I could certainly do that and transfer somewhere nicer the next day.

So, how risky will it be to plan on taking a sleeper train when I'll only be able to book a couple of hours in advance?

Looks like another option would be a night train to Kanazawa, then on to Ogimachi, and then Takayama (and yes, the new road is now open and the bus trip is down to 50 minutes).

If I do head to Matsue it makes getting back to Ogimachi a bit circuitous, though a route through Kinosaki Onsen looks interesting.

A bit of a lull here while I'd looked into the feasability of making same day reservations for a JR sleeper train. There's not an enormous amount of info out there (though I'm a bit limited as I'm working from an iPhone and can't always get search functions to work) but what there is suggests that my instincts re risk are on the mark.

I've also looked into Nikko for the first night, but timing doesn't work, as I'll get there too late for dinner.

So, back to the initial plan wherein I get as far as possible on a shnkansen. Kyoto and Osaka in one direction. Hmm, wonder what's in the other direction?

I know next to nothing about taking a sleeper train.
I suppose you found this:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2356.html

I suggested Matsue because of the night train and wasn't considering that you would visit there and Shirakawago.

If the road from Takayama to S-go is open then you could go to Nagoya the first night. In the morning take the train to Takayama.

The bus from Takaoka took quite a bit longer in the winter than scheduled (an hour longer, IIRC), so might figure the Takayama bus to take 80 minutes. The road between Shirakawago and Kanazawa was closed in January.

If you took the night train towards Kanazawa, then you could get off at Toyama (if the train doesn't stop at Takaoka) and then get a train to Takaoka. If you went on thru to Kanazawa then you should consider spending some time to visit that city.

The other direction is Nagano and the Japan Alps.

"I know next to nothing about taking a sleeper train."

But you're still wunrful for taking so much time to answer my queries.

I've been spending all sorts of quality time at japan-guide, and yes, have seen that info, as well as bus schedules and all sorts of useful info. The bus companies also post their schedules; here's a nice one for the Nohi company that uses the routes that I'm considering:

http://www.nouhibus.co.jp/english/index.html

At this point I'm looking at more or less splitting my time between Kansai (considering Osaka as my base, so shinkansen there evening of arrival at NRT) and Gifu/Kanazawa, taking the night train back to Tokyo from Kanazawa. The advantages of the night train at this point of the journey include greater likelihood of being able to reserve a compartment as well as the fact that I won't be a frazzled mess. It gets in a little bit after 0600, so I can either stow my bag in locker or at my hotel (at Shiodome, I think) and head directly to Tsukiji for a nice piscine breakfast.

I'd probably do Nikko as a day trip from Tokyo.

So, question for this post: does Osaka make sense for a base in Kansai? Osaka's got a reputation as boisterous and high tech, with lots of very good food and vibrant night life and very little in the way of old time Japanese charm. Kyoto's all about the pretty and quaint, with lots of tourist support services, but the prices to go along with it. I expect that Osaka would be cheaper (I'd be staying in a business hotel) and would make a nice contrast to the old-timey-ness of Gifu.

Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot.

But I couldn't tell you were an idiot after that compliment.

Can't answer your question, yet. Have one of my own: Use it as a base for what?

By Gifu, do you mean Gifu city or Gifu prefecture?

should read: But I couldn't tell you that you were ...

A base for exploring other towns: stay in Osaka, day trip to Kyoto, Kobe, and/or Nara as the mood strikes me.

Getting to either Osaka or Kyoto the first night is tight on the timing end, as the last non-Nozomi shinkansen (remember, I'm using a JR pass) leaves Tokyo station at 20:03, so I'd have to catch N'Ex in time to get me there, and if the flight's delayed I could be stuck.

So Nagoya does become an option, as there are Hikari shinkansens that depart Tokyo at 21:30 and 22:00.

By Gifu I meant Gifu prefecture: Takayama, Ogimachi, Hirayu Onsen.

That is what I thought when you mentioned using Osaka as a base, but was wondering if you thought you could base there to visit Gifu-ken. I really did think that you knew better than that, so now I know.

Ok, so you found out somewhere that the Takayama-Shirakawago road is now open in the winter? I saw a small ski resort not far on the road east from Takayama. IIRC, it was before Hirayu Onsen. I suppose the bus would go to the ski resort in the winter, but not sure how far after that. I would assume that the bus route from Matsumoto to Kamikochi to Hirayu Onsen to Takayama would be closed.

Another option is that you could fly from Narita on a visitor fare or FF award:
on ANA:
http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/dms/networkmap/narita_hd.html
Komatsu is near Kanazawa.
on JAL, fewer places: Nagoya, Oska, Fukuoka, Sapporo

You know most people would base from Kyoto, not Osaka.

Flying to Komatsu from Narita is a great idea. Quick, easy, painless. Once at Komatsu, take the bus to Kanazawa (follow everyone else). The flight leaves Narita at 7:30 PM, a perfect connection for you.

The highway between Kanazawa and Shirakawa-go and Takayama is now open all year, so the trip to S-go is only an hour. Takayama, 2 hours. We drive there often, but I believe there are two buses a day even in winter. No hassle of getting to Takaoka now.

Some random thoughts:

1. I would bring the winter coat on all the flights. I find the planes to be freezing. You may be glad you have it. Paying to ship it home seems silly, just carry it on your arm and then use it as a blanket. As all but one of your flights are in business class, there is plenty of room for the coat, the staff will even offer to put it in a closet if you don’t want it.

2. For hotels in Singapore, I don’t know the Ibis very well, but you might look at the Perak (http://www.peraklodge.com/), which I have not been inside, but this place always looks interesting to me. It is in a nice location in the middle of the shop house area of Little India. (AND you get a discount at Apollo Banana Leaf curry house, which you will want to go to anyway…). You might also look at the Swisshotel Merchant Court, very good location and generally good value for money, or consider the Swisshotel Stamford, again a very good location and should be significantly cheaper than Raffles next door. Go to http://www.swissotel.com/index.htm. Or something like the Gallery Hotel in the River Valley Road area. This location is perhaps not ideal for first timers, but is an interesting area of boutiques and restaurants. Take a look at http://www.galleryhotel.com.sg/html/index.html. Also look at the Intercontinental near Arab Street, great location and if you can get a deal, this may be the best option of all. In Chinatown, you might try the Berjaya Hotel (formerly the Duxton Hotel, see http://www.berjayaresorts.com/beachresort_duxton.htm), I think it is a little worn, but location is very good for the Chinatown area. If you have hotel points, this may be a good town to redeem them in.

3. Not to throw too much of a wrench into your plans, but there are tons of walk/gentle hike in Hong Kong (far more than Singapore), and the weather is sufficiently better than Singapore in January. (Sunny and in the 70s as opposed to hot, humid and tending toward rain in Singapore). We don’t have British India (which I do love I will say), but have many other amusements. But perhaps Hong Kong does not work with your itin, unless your friend from Malaysia wants to meet you there. Also, if you have any flexibility with your dates, Lunar New Year in 2010 is February 14-16, which is always an interesting time to be in Singapore or Hong Kong, and Thaipusum, a Hindu holiday celebrated only in Singapore and the Batu caves outside of KL, is celebrated in late January or early February (dates vary depending on moon phases). It might be interesting to be here for either celebration.

4. You will have no trouble finding clothes which fit at British India. In Singapore, I think that their Raffles Shopping Centre store has the largest selection, but their Millennia Walk shop has some housewares which make it a good option too. They also have outlets in Kuala Lumpur (e.g. Lot 10 shopping mall) should your travels take you there. Note that there is sales tax in Singapore, but you can get this refunded for most items; be sure to ask about this and get the proper forms; there is a place downtown where you can get the refunds, you don’t have to lug all the stuff to the airport when you are leaving to do the refund process.

Some replies/clarification to the last few posts, in no particular order:

As KimJapan says, the communities in the remoter areas of Gifu that have been discussed here apparently now benefit from the opening of a new highway which is open year 'round and also yields shorter trips. You can see a summary here: http://www.japan-guide.com/bus/shirakawago.html

A connecting flight (to Komatsu or elsewhere) is a reasonable possibility, but (1) it isn't a train, and I like train travel (which is not to say that I don't also do an awful lot of air travel, but I rarely get to travel by train) and (2) I'd be travelling during the blackout period for the visitor fares (which are in effect until Jan 4, 2010, whereas I'd be travelling on Jan 2).

My possibly choosing Osaka over Kyoto as a base for exploring the nearby towns has to do with my being what my mother likes to call "contrary." She assures me that it is one of my few flaws.

The winter coat issue is not a big one, and the coat will come in handy on the return flight. I'm planning on bringing a long down coat with a hood, so if the person next to me on the plane gets chilly I could probably share it.

Thanks for the tips re tax refunds and hotels in Singapore, Cicerone. Most smaller places haven't stocked rooms for Jan 2010 yet, so I'm waiting to book (though now that it's July some may have opened up). I'll keep these options in mind. No flexibility with my flights, I'm afraid, as I've already scheduled other things around them. I have very few periods during the year when I can get this much time off at a stretch, and January is one of them. June is another, but I took advantage of this June to have foot surgery, and will likely repeat it on the same foot next June. Now there's something to anticipate...

Hong Kong will have to wait for another year. I've got a Chinese sister-in-law, so will likely wait to travel in that part of the world until she can come with me.

In Singapore, go to the Ritz Carlton, just to sit in the lobby and enjoy the Dale Chiluly glass sculptures at either end of the lobby. One represents sunrise and the other represents sunset. They are spectacular, if you like that sort of thing.

The orchid gardens are also a beautiful place to visit.

Thanks for the tips, evvlabs. I like all sorts of gardens, so except to see some outstanding versions on this this trip.

I've got an update on the overnight train travel issue from a query that I posted over at tripadvisor, and it now looks as if a night train on arrival might well work out just fine, as although Jan 2 is part of the New Year's holiday period, it's not a peak travel day, as Jan 4 will be the day that everybody floods home. Jan 2 they're staying in, trying to ignore the fact that the holiday is almost over.

"expect to see...", not "except to see..."

Wonder where you will be when all those folks are traveling, and where you will stay the night before.

Maybe a Japanese travel agent, like H.I.S. Travel can book you a sleeper seat. Or JTB.