Refused at a restaurant because they were not Japanese?
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:17 AM
#1
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Refused at a restaurant because they were not Japanese?
Some friends came back from a trip in Asia which included Japan.
It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese.
They are in their 40s, very nice looking and always very well dressed (i.e. shirts, pants, city shoes and jacket for him).
Is it common in Japan?
Thank you.
TM
It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese.
They are in their 40s, very nice looking and always very well dressed (i.e. shirts, pants, city shoes and jacket for him).
Is it common in Japan?
Thank you.
TM
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:36 AM
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It happened to us once in Kyoto at a local Yakitori restaurant. Also, when we asked for restaurant reccomendations from the hotel concierge she did warn us that some of the local restaurants did not like serving foreigners. Why? I am not sure, but I think it was more to do with not being able to speak Engish rather than out and out racism. Apart from this, I found the Japanese people to be most welcoming,
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:01 AM
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To comment properly I'd have to have been there. This has never happened to us during four extended periods in Japan totalling almost three years, including remote parts that seldom see tourists. It's too bad this happened a number of times on one single trip. I've read that it is not unknown in some hotels that foreigners are refused, but as Crellston says, the problem seems to be that the establishment feels it can't serve the customer well because of a lack of English rather than overt racism. Sometimes Japanese hosts are overly fearful of offending foreign palates, and are concerned the customer won't like Japanese food. A bit about such things is found in Alan Booth's book, The Roads to Sata.
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:17 PM
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Common? If you happen to hit a certain type of restaurants.
Yes, it has happened to us several times.
There seems to be certain local hangouts where outsiders of any kinds are not welcome. Foreigners are probably the super outsiders.
This is much like a feeling I get when I stumble into a locals (only) hangout in the U.S., especially in a small town where the whole eyes in the restaurant would turn to me and the waiter would reluctantly lead me to a table out of the way.
Yes, it has happened to us several times.
There seems to be certain local hangouts where outsiders of any kinds are not welcome. Foreigners are probably the super outsiders.
This is much like a feeling I get when I stumble into a locals (only) hangout in the U.S., especially in a small town where the whole eyes in the restaurant would turn to me and the waiter would reluctantly lead me to a table out of the way.
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:09 PM
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If I can get off on a tangent here, I've been to a restaurant in Chicago where they locked the door and only allowed certain customers in. I suppose a restaurant always reserves the right to refuse customers.
Jan 13th, 2009, 09:34 AM
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I have been avoiding this question because of its obvious bias but I have to ask......
When you say
"It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese."
Did the Japanese person tell them this various times?
Where are these restaurants in Japan so we can avoid your friends fate?
Don't you find it a little strange that your friends would be subject to this "a number of times" in a short trip to Japan.....or anywhere for that matter??????
Aloha!
When you say
"It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese."
Did the Japanese person tell them this various times?
Where are these restaurants in Japan so we can avoid your friends fate?
Don't you find it a little strange that your friends would be subject to this "a number of times" in a short trip to Japan.....or anywhere for that matter??????
Aloha!
Jan 13th, 2009, 09:35 AM
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I have been avoiding this question because of its obvious bias but I have to ask......
When you say
"It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese."
Did the Japanese person in these supposed restaurants tell them this various times?
Where are these restaurants in Japan so we can avoid your friends fate?
Don't you find it a little strange that your friends would be subject to this "a number of times" in a short trip to Japan.....or anywhere for that matter??????
Aloha!
When you say
"It happened a number of times that they were refused entry to a restaurant because they were not japanese."
Did the Japanese person in these supposed restaurants tell them this various times?
Where are these restaurants in Japan so we can avoid your friends fate?
Don't you find it a little strange that your friends would be subject to this "a number of times" in a short trip to Japan.....or anywhere for that matter??????
Aloha!
Jan 13th, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Hi Hawaiiantraveler,
"Did the Japanese person tell them this various times?"
Yes. They were gesturing no with their hands/fingers while saying "not japanese, not japanese".
As for the restaurants themselves, I can't tell you where they were.
Both of them (married heterosexual couple) are part of "Doctors without Borders" and they were in Japan for their annual vacation from their workbase in Sudan.
It,s not a big deal and they simply went to another place. I just found it strange and thought that the best place to get an answer would be, of course, at Fodors'!
"Did the Japanese person tell them this various times?"
Yes. They were gesturing no with their hands/fingers while saying "not japanese, not japanese".
As for the restaurants themselves, I can't tell you where they were.
Both of them (married heterosexual couple) are part of "Doctors without Borders" and they were in Japan for their annual vacation from their workbase in Sudan.
It,s not a big deal and they simply went to another place. I just found it strange and thought that the best place to get an answer would be, of course, at Fodors'!
Jan 13th, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Interesting story.
Although I have no idea how them being married (would the restaurant staff be able to tell if they were unmarried just by looking at them?) or being heterosexual (totally baffled by that) has anything to do with how they were treated.
I've heard similar stories from friends of mine who visited Japan and were refused service. I'd like to think it's not an unfriendly gesture, but who knows?
And the comment about their experience in local US restaurants where customers gave strange looks...well, at least they served you. Restaurants certainly do reserve the right to refuse service but usually that's in reference to drunk or obnoxious people, neither of which I'm assuming the OP's friends were.
Although I have no idea how them being married (would the restaurant staff be able to tell if they were unmarried just by looking at them?) or being heterosexual (totally baffled by that) has anything to do with how they were treated.
I've heard similar stories from friends of mine who visited Japan and were refused service. I'd like to think it's not an unfriendly gesture, but who knows?
And the comment about their experience in local US restaurants where customers gave strange looks...well, at least they served you. Restaurants certainly do reserve the right to refuse service but usually that's in reference to drunk or obnoxious people, neither of which I'm assuming the OP's friends were.
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:38 PM
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In my experience.......this is very common in Wales.
Lynda and I, had quite a struggle to obtain Sunday lunch during a recent visit to North Wales. Stopping at several pubs and restaurants, we were told that food was not being served.....only to watch the locals wander in for lunch.
I am a Scot and Lynda is happy to call herself a Brit.....but I think they assumed we were english !
So it's not unique to Japan.
Lynda and I, had quite a struggle to obtain Sunday lunch during a recent visit to North Wales. Stopping at several pubs and restaurants, we were told that food was not being served.....only to watch the locals wander in for lunch.
I am a Scot and Lynda is happy to call herself a Brit.....but I think they assumed we were english !
So it's not unique to Japan.
Jan 13th, 2009, 02:27 PM
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tm,
in my experiences, unless it was a private club/restaurant(and there are many)I have never been refused service in Japan.
I have been told no at the door but when I started talking in slaughtered Japanese we have always been let in with a sheepish smile.
In my experiences it has been the hosts feeling of not wanting to disappoint their guests or to be embarrassed themselves for their lack of your language that, imho, makes them turn you away, not anything to do with prejudices.
That said I have run into the occasional local who still subscribes to the "gaigin" thing......okole pukas are everywhere in the world I guess
Aloha!
in my experiences, unless it was a private club/restaurant(and there are many)I have never been refused service in Japan.
I have been told no at the door but when I started talking in slaughtered Japanese we have always been let in with a sheepish smile.
In my experiences it has been the hosts feeling of not wanting to disappoint their guests or to be embarrassed themselves for their lack of your language that, imho, makes them turn you away, not anything to do with prejudices.
That said I have run into the occasional local who still subscribes to the "gaigin" thing......okole pukas are everywhere in the world I guess
Aloha!
Jan 13th, 2009, 02:58 PM
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Having never been to Japan I can't comment but there have been occasions here (suburb of Chicago) where I have been "excluded" so to speak. Both times it happened on a golf course and involved Japanese playing partners I got paired up with those days. The first time I was with a threesome of ladies and on the 2nd hole one of them asked me to go one my own. What was remarkable was that she seemed scared to death. 
and was trembling and shaking when she asked me. Hmmm. Another time I was paired with a group of 3 men and they asked me to go on my own after the turn because one in their group was playing golf for the 1st time and they said he was very nervous. I was playing pretty good that day and they said he felt a little intimidated I suppose. Oh well I can understand that. They were just looking out for their friend. I still can't figure out about that gal however. 
. Also I have played several other times with Japanese people and have never had a problem. I sort of like playing with them as they are usually polite and more importantly observe the etiquette of the game.
and was trembling and shaking when she asked me. Hmmm. Another time I was paired with a group of 3 men and they asked me to go on my own after the turn because one in their group was playing golf for the 1st time and they said he was very nervous. I was playing pretty good that day and they said he felt a little intimidated I suppose. Oh well I can understand that. They were just looking out for their friend. I still can't figure out about that gal however. . Also I have played several other times with Japanese people and have never had a problem. I sort of like playing with them as they are usually polite and more importantly observe the etiquette of the game.
Jan 13th, 2009, 03:43 PM
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One clarification about U.S. restaurants: Restaurants (as well as hotels) do not, and by federal law may not, refuse service to anyone based on their ethnicity or race. (Some parts of The Land of the Free used to have quaint laws that allowed restaurants and lunch counters to enforce Whites Only policies, but the do-gooders got rid of that in 1964.)
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:04 PM
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Was in Tokyo for a couple of months in 2005 and have not experienced being turned away . In fact in a few places, the staff took extra pains to explain how the food ought to be eaten. Remember clearly an occasion at a tonkatsu restaurant where the waitress explained to me using hand gestures the correct sauces to use and how to grind the sesame seeds and add it to the tonkatsu sauce. After the explanation she stood a short distance away to see if I understood and got it right.
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:04 PM
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I would think the better title for this post would have been
"Refused at a restaurant because they did not speak or understand Japanese"
I think some of us may carry our prejudices with us when we travel and expect others to act the same.....
"Refused at a restaurant because they did not speak or understand Japanese"
I think some of us may carry our prejudices with us when we travel and expect others to act the same.....
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:59 PM
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I have, on occasions, seen restaurant staff getting embarrassed and flustered because of communication difficulty with non-Japanese speaking customers (and I was usually able to help out by translating). Perhaps, and I'm only guessing here, the restaurants in question may have had similar experience in the past and wanted to avoid it.
There was a recent survey among Japanese accommodation providers (hoteliers and guesthouse owners) and a significant proportion of them (about a quarter, I think) stated that they do not welcome, or even refuse, non-Japanese customers. Reasons cited include language difficulties and they don't provide facilities foreign guests usually expect (like private baths instead of communal one).
The fact is that Japanese tourist industry outside of popular places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Hiroshima etc is still very much focused on domestic visitors and is slow to adapt to non-Japanese and non-Japanese speaking clients.
There was a recent survey among Japanese accommodation providers (hoteliers and guesthouse owners) and a significant proportion of them (about a quarter, I think) stated that they do not welcome, or even refuse, non-Japanese customers. Reasons cited include language difficulties and they don't provide facilities foreign guests usually expect (like private baths instead of communal one).
The fact is that Japanese tourist industry outside of popular places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Hiroshima etc is still very much focused on domestic visitors and is slow to adapt to non-Japanese and non-Japanese speaking clients.
Jan 13th, 2009, 07:36 PM
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Anyone have any ideas why my firend and I (2 females) were repeatedly refused lunch service in Uruguay? We wandered from place to place which had diners seated, but were told we would not be served, or in one instance, we would only be served if we sat outside (there were diners sitting inside that restaurant).
Jan 13th, 2009, 09:40 PM
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Femi, just from the outsider looking in prospective I would think that they were busy on the inside tables or wanted to serve you outside.....or maybe the inside waitresses tables were all just too busy......what do you think it was from your observations, honestly?
Jan 13th, 2009, 10:35 PM
#20
In my experience, this happens at restaurants and night clubs in the big cities. They have their clientele that look a certain way (Japanese) and act a certain way (Japanese). Foreigners are too much trouble and not worth it, if they take you away from or irritate your client base.
I assume the same thing goes for ryokan, especially pricey ones, outside of the big cities.
People want to go to a traditional ryokan but they want a private bath, western breakfast, and the husband doesn't like fish, and they don't like sitting on the floor for dinner or sleeping on futons. And yes, they said they would be there at 4PM with dinner at 6PM but they decided to not show up until 8PM. And when they did arrive, they walked on the tatami mats with their shoes on - to the horror of other guests.
I assume the same thing goes for ryokan, especially pricey ones, outside of the big cities.
People want to go to a traditional ryokan but they want a private bath, western breakfast, and the husband doesn't like fish, and they don't like sitting on the floor for dinner or sleeping on futons. And yes, they said they would be there at 4PM with dinner at 6PM but they decided to not show up until 8PM. And when they did arrive, they walked on the tatami mats with their shoes on - to the horror of other guests.
