Question about airfare, airlines, Hokkaido, Izu Shoto, Koyasan, Mt Fuji
Feb 5th, 2009, 05:10 AM
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Question about airfare, airlines, Hokkaido, Izu Shoto, Koyasan, Mt Fuji
We are planning to take a 2-wk trip to Japan in late June or early July.
So far, we found a fare from Boston to Tokyo, roundtrip, on American Airlines. We usually fly American, with no problems, but should we wait for a lower fare or maybe the same fare on a Japanese airline?
Is the service that much better on JAL or ANA? If we are going to pay the same $$ for better service, I am inclined to wait; if it's all pretty much the same, then I might as well fly American.
We are thinking to hit the Izu Shoto Islands (off Tokyo), then head up to Hokkaido for a bit, then work our way to Koyasan, then Kyoto (where our friends live), then maybe hike up Mt Fuji on our way back to Tokyo and spend the last few days in the city (husband loves Tokyo) and around.
We are debating whether to get a one-week or two-week JR pass. The difference is about 17000 yen (maybe $170 US). If we took the ferry over to the Izu Shoto and spend the first two nights there, then we could activate our JR pass, head up to Hokkaido, spend 3 or 4 days there, then take a LONG train (we are OK with this) down to Koyasan, check that out, then head up to Kyoto, spend a few days with our friends, and then head over to Mt Fuji on our way back to Tokyo.
See, we could probably get by on a 1-week pass and then pay for a ticket from Kyoto to Tokyo via Mt Fuji but maybe it's just better (and more convenient) just to get the 2 week pass, which works on the Tokyo metro and can be used for day trips around Tokyo.
Any advice, suggestions are greatly appreciated. This is our second trip to Japan (the last time we did a two-week trip that included Tokyo, Kagoshima, Sakurajoma, Kumomoto, Kurokawa Onsen, Miyajima, Hiroshima, Himeji. Kyoto, Amanohashidate, Amino (Sea of Japan), and Tokyo) and probably won't be our last!!!
So far, we found a fare from Boston to Tokyo, roundtrip, on American Airlines. We usually fly American, with no problems, but should we wait for a lower fare or maybe the same fare on a Japanese airline?
Is the service that much better on JAL or ANA? If we are going to pay the same $$ for better service, I am inclined to wait; if it's all pretty much the same, then I might as well fly American.
We are thinking to hit the Izu Shoto Islands (off Tokyo), then head up to Hokkaido for a bit, then work our way to Koyasan, then Kyoto (where our friends live), then maybe hike up Mt Fuji on our way back to Tokyo and spend the last few days in the city (husband loves Tokyo) and around.
We are debating whether to get a one-week or two-week JR pass. The difference is about 17000 yen (maybe $170 US). If we took the ferry over to the Izu Shoto and spend the first two nights there, then we could activate our JR pass, head up to Hokkaido, spend 3 or 4 days there, then take a LONG train (we are OK with this) down to Koyasan, check that out, then head up to Kyoto, spend a few days with our friends, and then head over to Mt Fuji on our way back to Tokyo.
See, we could probably get by on a 1-week pass and then pay for a ticket from Kyoto to Tokyo via Mt Fuji but maybe it's just better (and more convenient) just to get the 2 week pass, which works on the Tokyo metro and can be used for day trips around Tokyo.
Any advice, suggestions are greatly appreciated. This is our second trip to Japan (the last time we did a two-week trip that included Tokyo, Kagoshima, Sakurajoma, Kumomoto, Kurokawa Onsen, Miyajima, Hiroshima, Himeji. Kyoto, Amanohashidate, Amino (Sea of Japan), and Tokyo) and probably won't be our last!!!
Feb 5th, 2009, 09:23 AM
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If you fly American Airlines to Japan you could save some time and money and fly from Haneda(Tokyo) to Sapporo using the OneWorld Yokoso Visit Japan fare for about 10,000 yen per ticket,then use your 7 day JR Pass when you leave Hokkaido.....
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2364.html
Izu, Kyoto and Tokyo will be hot at your time there. Staying on Hokkaido or in the higher elevations like Koyasan and Mt Fuji is a good idea.
I have flown ANA but not JAL before. The difference in service is night and day. One example says it all. Every half hour on the half hour one of the flight attendants in our business class section would put on gloves and an apron and proceed with a bucket and cleanser to clean the bathrooms thoroughly in our compartment. Just one small example of the level of service to expect on a foreign carrier.
Aloha!
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2364.html
Izu, Kyoto and Tokyo will be hot at your time there. Staying on Hokkaido or in the higher elevations like Koyasan and Mt Fuji is a good idea.
I have flown ANA but not JAL before. The difference in service is night and day. One example says it all. Every half hour on the half hour one of the flight attendants in our business class section would put on gloves and an apron and proceed with a bucket and cleanser to clean the bathrooms thoroughly in our compartment. Just one small example of the level of service to expect on a foreign carrier.
Aloha!
Feb 5th, 2009, 01:06 PM
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Agree with HT about the service on airlines. ANA in economy is totally different than United or NWA or Continental (the other airlines I have flown), in service, in feeling, and the food is actually edible. ANA has released their fares through September but their fuel surcharge will not decrease until April 1...and it should decrease a lot...so waiting to buy an ANA ticket would likely save you some money.
Mt. Fuji climbing seasons begins July 20. You can go before that, but many services/huts are closed still.
Decide your itinerary than cost it out on www.hyperdia.com to see the comparison with JR Passes. Use the total cost for the trains, not just the fare...there is a cost for speed for all but local trains that is not optional. Hyperdia is confusing in that they put that cost into the "reservation" category, but the reservation averages ¥500 and you can eliminate that by selecting non-reserved seat.
Mt. Fuji climbing seasons begins July 20. You can go before that, but many services/huts are closed still.
Decide your itinerary than cost it out on www.hyperdia.com to see the comparison with JR Passes. Use the total cost for the trains, not just the fare...there is a cost for speed for all but local trains that is not optional. Hyperdia is confusing in that they put that cost into the "reservation" category, but the reservation averages ¥500 and you can eliminate that by selecting non-reserved seat.
Feb 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM
#5
I can't tell what type of pass you need or even if you need one.
Can you please list your itinerary (daily, please) if you had a 14-day pass? How would that be different from a 7-day pass?
You are "OK with" the long train ride to Koyasan, but is this long train ride something that you want to do? Or you would prefer to avoid it.
Where are you going in Hokkaido? How long in Kyoto?
Can you please list your itinerary (daily, please) if you had a 14-day pass? How would that be different from a 7-day pass?
You are "OK with" the long train ride to Koyasan, but is this long train ride something that you want to do? Or you would prefer to avoid it.
Where are you going in Hokkaido? How long in Kyoto?
Feb 6th, 2009, 04:04 AM
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Thank you so much for your replies.
We don't have an itinerary yet because we are still figuring out where we want to go and what we want to do. After that, we will be able to figure out whether we need a railpass. I have thought about the yokoso fares, but we prefer the trains as getting back and forth to airports usually costs $$$.
ANA vs. American is a hard choice - we earn miles on American, the flights are perfect, the price ($1233) seems good, and except for check-in, the service on American is generally fine. The food is OK, and I usually sleep on planes, so I don't need too much "service", just basic politeness!! We've always wanted to try a Japanese airline though. Ugh!! So many choices!!!
The reason we'd rather book now (than wait) is so we can start our planning. Haven't researched Hokkaido much so I need to figure out what we want to do there before I decide when and how much time to spend there.
As for Kyoto, I am waiting to see if my friend will be there. It is a good possibility but it depends on whether her father is visiting Vancouver this summer. He will be in Kyoto on June 28, and we will probably spend at least a day or two there to say hello to her family. If she is there, we will probably want to spend 4-5 days in that area, as her family usually takes us to cool places.
I am extremely worried about the tsuyu rains and how they will affect our trip, however. I know weather cannot be predicted; however, it would be horrible to be rained on the entire time!!! However, we had a lot of rain (including some downpours) on our last trip, and we still loved every minute.
Mrwunfrl - we are OK with long train trips - I've done the 18-hour ride from Tokyo to Kagoshima (which is sadly being discontinued in March 2009!!)
Fuji is a maybe - it's hard to plan w/o knowing the weather. We'd really like to check out the Izu islands off of Tokyo but are having troubkle getting info about the Tokai Kisen ferry schedule - it's all in Japanese.
Railpasses - because of the unpredictable weather, we may want to be flexible and for that, a railpass is good!! Depends how flexible we need to be. At least we do not have to make that decision yet.
We don't have an itinerary yet because we are still figuring out where we want to go and what we want to do. After that, we will be able to figure out whether we need a railpass. I have thought about the yokoso fares, but we prefer the trains as getting back and forth to airports usually costs $$$.
ANA vs. American is a hard choice - we earn miles on American, the flights are perfect, the price ($1233) seems good, and except for check-in, the service on American is generally fine. The food is OK, and I usually sleep on planes, so I don't need too much "service", just basic politeness!! We've always wanted to try a Japanese airline though. Ugh!! So many choices!!!
The reason we'd rather book now (than wait) is so we can start our planning. Haven't researched Hokkaido much so I need to figure out what we want to do there before I decide when and how much time to spend there.
As for Kyoto, I am waiting to see if my friend will be there. It is a good possibility but it depends on whether her father is visiting Vancouver this summer. He will be in Kyoto on June 28, and we will probably spend at least a day or two there to say hello to her family. If she is there, we will probably want to spend 4-5 days in that area, as her family usually takes us to cool places.
I am extremely worried about the tsuyu rains and how they will affect our trip, however. I know weather cannot be predicted; however, it would be horrible to be rained on the entire time!!! However, we had a lot of rain (including some downpours) on our last trip, and we still loved every minute.
Mrwunfrl - we are OK with long train trips - I've done the 18-hour ride from Tokyo to Kagoshima (which is sadly being discontinued in March 2009!!)
Fuji is a maybe - it's hard to plan w/o knowing the weather. We'd really like to check out the Izu islands off of Tokyo but are having troubkle getting info about the Tokai Kisen ferry schedule - it's all in Japanese.
Railpasses - because of the unpredictable weather, we may want to be flexible and for that, a railpass is good!! Depends how flexible we need to be. At least we do not have to make that decision yet.
Apr 11th, 2009, 01:59 PM
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I'm not sure if this is your first trip to Japan...but..
If it is I wouldn't really recommend coming to Hokkaido - however much I love it here - because it doesn't really look or feel like Japan.
It's a place of mountains and lakes and forest...shades of Europe or north America...not much history or culture because it was settled by the Japanese only about 120 years ago.
There are so many places to go in mainland Japan I think it would be better to stick to that for a 2 week trip.
Here is great for hikes and camping and food and hot springs...
amanda
If it is I wouldn't really recommend coming to Hokkaido - however much I love it here - because it doesn't really look or feel like Japan.
It's a place of mountains and lakes and forest...shades of Europe or north America...not much history or culture because it was settled by the Japanese only about 120 years ago.
There are so many places to go in mainland Japan I think it would be better to stick to that for a 2 week trip.
Here is great for hikes and camping and food and hot springs...
amanda
Apr 14th, 2009, 02:17 PM
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I literally calculated our JR trips to the yen last year by determining which trips we would take by JR train outside our seven-day pass and how much it would cost to take the train within the proposed seven-day periods without a pass.
Because we had one leg from Kyoto-Tokyo-Narita Airport by limited express, the JR pass nearly made all other rides free as long as the pass covered that one day's use of the train. Those trips, if purchased a la carte, would have been expensive. And the other train trips we took before we activated the JR pass cost far less than the 17000 yen difference.
The Japanrail.com website discusses fares for all the major routes throughout the country so you can make your calculations. Add the L'Ex fares to the base fares for any major intercity routes because anything slower than a limited express train between cities will be SLOW. You should finalize the itinerary beforehand.
Note that the JR pass does NOT cover Tokyo metro. From Japan-guide.com: "The Japan Rail Pass is valid only on JR trains. It cannot be used on subways or any other non-JR train."
It covers JR lines that operate within the Tokyo area like the Yamanote line that connects most of the main railway stations to each other and the Chuo/Sobu line that cuts through the center of the city. There are local JR lines in and around most major Japanese cities (e.g., Kyoto, Osaka, Yokohama), and your JR pass is good on those trains. There are also plenty of independent non-JR trains, and on those lines your JR pass is worthless.
As for the flight -- if the difference is small, go on AA and get your MILES so that if and when you love Japan, you'll be 6000 miles closer to a free return trip in the future.
Because we had one leg from Kyoto-Tokyo-Narita Airport by limited express, the JR pass nearly made all other rides free as long as the pass covered that one day's use of the train. Those trips, if purchased a la carte, would have been expensive. And the other train trips we took before we activated the JR pass cost far less than the 17000 yen difference.
The Japanrail.com website discusses fares for all the major routes throughout the country so you can make your calculations. Add the L'Ex fares to the base fares for any major intercity routes because anything slower than a limited express train between cities will be SLOW. You should finalize the itinerary beforehand.
Note that the JR pass does NOT cover Tokyo metro. From Japan-guide.com: "The Japan Rail Pass is valid only on JR trains. It cannot be used on subways or any other non-JR train."
It covers JR lines that operate within the Tokyo area like the Yamanote line that connects most of the main railway stations to each other and the Chuo/Sobu line that cuts through the center of the city. There are local JR lines in and around most major Japanese cities (e.g., Kyoto, Osaka, Yokohama), and your JR pass is good on those trains. There are also plenty of independent non-JR trains, and on those lines your JR pass is worthless.
As for the flight -- if the difference is small, go on AA and get your MILES so that if and when you love Japan, you'll be 6000 miles closer to a free return trip in the future.
Apr 19th, 2009, 05:03 AM
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Thank you!
We actually ended up waiting a little bit and got our flights for about $1100, on American, - flying from Boston to Tokyo on June 24 and returning from Osaka to Boston (via Tokyo) on July 8.
Note: when we originally booked our ticket online, our return flight required us to fly Osaka to Haneda and then Narita to Boston! When I called American to see what kind of help we'd get transferring from Haneda to Narita, and were shocked to find out that the answer was NONE. That's right, we'd have to land in Haneda at 2 PM< get our bags, catch the shuttle from HND to NRT (and pay for it!!!!) - all in three hours. I was livid. So I managed to get us re-routed and we are now flying KIX-NRT-BOS, but it was a complete headache and I had to talk to five different people before someone did it for me, and somehow we ended up getting a $99 refund (instead of exorbitant change fees). I'm not asking any questions though.
I decided against flying JAL or ANA, even thought the price is only a little higher, because I am afraid the service will be so good that I will be ruined and will never be able to fly another airline again. I'll take American and the miles for now. Maybe another time.
AmandaH - this is our second trip to Japan and hopefully not our last!! We chose Hokkaido to escape the tsuyu and because we do love nature and hot springs and seafood! We are not the types who have a checklist and need to see "sights", plus we had a nice taste of Japan last year when we did: Tokyo, Kagoshima, Sakurajima, Kumamoto, Kurokawa onsen, Miyajima, Hiroshima, Himeji, Kyoto, Amanohashidate, Amino (sea of Japan), and Kyoto.
I am going to do my proposed itinerary in another thread - thanks for everyone's advice!!!
We actually ended up waiting a little bit and got our flights for about $1100, on American, - flying from Boston to Tokyo on June 24 and returning from Osaka to Boston (via Tokyo) on July 8.
Note: when we originally booked our ticket online, our return flight required us to fly Osaka to Haneda and then Narita to Boston! When I called American to see what kind of help we'd get transferring from Haneda to Narita, and were shocked to find out that the answer was NONE. That's right, we'd have to land in Haneda at 2 PM< get our bags, catch the shuttle from HND to NRT (and pay for it!!!!) - all in three hours. I was livid. So I managed to get us re-routed and we are now flying KIX-NRT-BOS, but it was a complete headache and I had to talk to five different people before someone did it for me, and somehow we ended up getting a $99 refund (instead of exorbitant change fees). I'm not asking any questions though.
I decided against flying JAL or ANA, even thought the price is only a little higher, because I am afraid the service will be so good that I will be ruined and will never be able to fly another airline again. I'll take American and the miles for now. Maybe another time.
AmandaH - this is our second trip to Japan and hopefully not our last!! We chose Hokkaido to escape the tsuyu and because we do love nature and hot springs and seafood! We are not the types who have a checklist and need to see "sights", plus we had a nice taste of Japan last year when we did: Tokyo, Kagoshima, Sakurajima, Kumamoto, Kurokawa onsen, Miyajima, Hiroshima, Himeji, Kyoto, Amanohashidate, Amino (sea of Japan), and Kyoto.
I am going to do my proposed itinerary in another thread - thanks for everyone's advice!!!
