elsewhereist

Hi everyone!

This is my first time to post in Fodor's Travel Forum!

I'll be in the Kansai area for 7D7N this October (19 to 26) and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the itinerary I have planned. This will be my first trip to Japan so I don't know what to expect yet.

Just a bit of a background: experience has proven that I can go through a seemingly packed itinerary without feeling rushed (we hit at least 7 sites a day in Siem Reap with a lot of time to spare!). Also, I like mixing my must-see/major sites with visits to smaller and lesser known spots to escape the crowds. Lastly, I've no problem starting my day at 7:00-8:00am daily

My plan is this:

OCT 19 - Arrive in KIX at 8:00pm. Overnight in Osaka (hostel near Dotonbori)

OCT 20 - Tennoji Area (Shi-Tennoji Temple, Isshinji Temple, Shinsekai) - Osaka Castle - Tenmangu Shrine - Osaka Waterfront (Osaka Aquarium, Naniwa Food Theme Park). Transit to Kyoto in the evening. Overnight in Kyoto (hostel near Kyoto Station)

OCT 21 - Uji Bridge - Ujigami Shrine - Uji Shrine - Koshoji Temple - Taiho-an Tea House - Byodo-in Temple - Fushimi Inari Shrine

OCT 22 - Kiyomizudera - Gyoen National Garden (Kaninnomiya Mansion, Shusui-tei Tea Ceremony Room, Itsukushima Shrine, Munakata Shrine, Shirakumo Shrine, Konoe Pond) - Catch the beginning of the Jidai Matsuri at the Imperial Palace by 12:00nn - Kodaiji Temple - Higashi Otani Mausoleum - Yasaka Shrine - Gion & Nishiki Market

OCT 23 - (Arashiyama) Daikakuji Temple - Otagi Nenbutsuji Temple - Gioji Temple - Takiguchi-Dera Temple - Nonomiya Shrine - Tenryuji Temple

OCT 24 - Ginkakuji Temple - Honen-in Temple - Otoya Jinja - Kumano Nyakuoji Shrine - Kurodani Temple - Heian Jingu Shrine - Shoren-in. Transit to Nara in the evening. Overnight in Nara (hostel near Kintentsu Nara Station)

OCT 25 - Todaiji Temple (Daibutsuden Hall, Nigatsudo Hall, Hokkedo Hall) - Nara Deer Park - Kasugayama Primeval Forest - Kasuga Taisha Grand Shrine - Yoshikien Garden - Kofukuji Temple - Gangoji Temple - Naramachi. Transit to Osaka in the evening. Overnight in Osaka (hostel near Dotonbori)

OCT 26 - Sumiyoshi Taisha - Sacra Famiglia (Osaka Umeda Catholic Church) - Shinsaibashi area (Den Den Town, Hozenji Temple, Hozenji Yochoko Alley, etc.). Transit to KIX by 6:00pm.

Hope to get your insights!

ALSO one last question: I'm planning a daily budget of about Y12,000 per day EXCLUDING accommodations and city-to-city travel. Is this enough for the attractions, cheap restaurant meals, and spontaneous cafe trips? Thanks a lot everyone!

kja

OK, you warned us -- but I'm still catching my breath. And I thought I traveled at a fast pace!!!

I'm not going to say that you can't make this plan happen -- I honestly don't know. And even if you can make it work physically, I'm not sure that it makes sense to try: I'm happy to travel quickly and have no desire to relax when traveling, but I at least want to have enough time to actually SEE the places I visit. I fear that all this plan would let you do is say you WENT to these places -- a very different thing. But I could be wrong!

I would encourage you to identify some back up plans, perhaps associated with "check points." For example, you might stop every day at 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. and 5 p.m., and each time, if you are behind, you switch to a plan that you have already identified for what to skip. (Hard lesson learned -- I hate when I can't make it to something that is a really high priority for me just because I ran out of time!)

"OCT 21 - Uji" -- Uji is IMO absolutely lovely. I'm sure you know that ongoing construction work at Byodo-in is scheduled to end in Sept., so do keep checking for updates.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3923.html

Isn't Uji between Nara and Kyoto? It might make sense to sequence your visit that way...

I also visited Fushimi Inari after Byodo-in and it worked out quite well for me. I timed it so that I had at least an hour at Fushimi Inari before sunset, and was SO VERY glad I did! But sunset will be just after 5 p.m. when you are there, won't it? I would have hated to have no daylight time at Fushimi Inari!
http://dateandtime.info/citysunrises...h=10&year=2014

Whatever you decide, you'll see some wonderful things.

elsewhereist

Hi kja!

That's actually my worry too - going to places but not really soaking it in too much - but at the same time, I'm trying to balance it with the pace that I know I go at. Also, it seems like a lot because I list a lot but some of the temples/shrines are really small - it'll take a 15 minute visit to just take photos and all.

But great idea re the checkpoints. I was thinking of classifying the places according to how much I want to see that place so I know which I'm willing to forgo when push comes to shove. I think doing both would make sure I have room to move around.

About the Uji part, I also considered visiting before I go to Nara, but that's a side trip that I will be making without my companions (they'll stay in Kyoto) so I think this arrangement is fine.

Thanks for confirming that this is indeed too much! I've been pretty torn about this kind of itinerary. I guess it's that tendency to want to see everything even though we know it's neither possible nor desirable!

kja

"I'm trying to balance it with the pace that I know I go at." But you haven't been to Japan yet, have you? Visiting a temple or shrine in Japan is rarely about just stepping into a building or two. It's about walking through the temple's or shrine's garden -- often laid out on a circuit. You can't always just pop in to take a photo or two.

Identify your priorities. Keep an eye on the time. Remember that anything beyond your very highest priority for any given day is icing on the cake. And enjoy!

elsewhereist

Nope! This is the first time to go beyond the airport. The pace I was talking about was based on how long I took in equally large temples in Southeast Asian countries.

But yup! Thanks for the advice. The tricky part is identifying which are my priorities. They all look so beautiful!

JC98

Agreed with kja, that's a lot of sights to pack in!

For me personally, I didn't like Osaka that much. I think seeing Dontonbori the night you land and seeing the castle in the morning would be sufficient and head out to Kyoto early. Osaka is not old enough to be impressive and not modern enough to be hip. It's kinda blah to me. Dontonbori was pretty dead and boring the 2 times I was there. The castle was good enough for a couple of hours in the morning, because it's historical. Spend more time on the ground, as not much to see inside.

elsewhereist

Hi JC98! I'll consider that. My only non-negotiables in Osaka Day 1 are the Osaka Castle and Aquarium (really love Aquariums), plus the Sumiyoshi Taisha for Day 6 as I hear that it's a lot different from all other temples in the Kansai area. It's true that I want to see more places in Kyoto, but I do want to get to know Osaka a little bit too. Thanks for the suggestion though! Will give it some thought

elsewhereist

Hi everyone!

Took your advice and updated my itinerary. Hope to get your two cents on this:

OCT 19 - Arrive in KIX at 8:00pm. Overnight in Osaka (hostel near Dotonbori)

OCT 20 - Sumiyoshi Taisha (7:30am) - Osaka Castle - Americamura - (transit to Kyoto after lunch) - Kiyomizudera - Kodaiji Temple & Sho Museum - Yasaka Shrine/Maruyama Park/Gion

OCT 21 - Fushimi Inari Shrine (7:30am) - Uji Bridge - Ujigami Shrine - Uji Shrine - Koshoji Temple - Taiho-an Tea House - Byodo-in Temple

OCT 22 - Kyoto Imperial Park (Jidai Matsuri) - Kurodani Temple - Shoren-in Temple - Teramachi & Shinkyogoku Shopping Arcades

OCT 23 - (Arashiyama) Daikakuji Temple - Otagi Nenbutsuji Temple - Gioji Temple - Takiguchi-Dera Temple - Nonomiya Shrine - Tenryuji Temple

OCT 24 - Ginkakuji Temple - Honen-in Temple - Eikando Temple - Heian Shrine - (transit to Nara mid-afternoon) - Gangoji Temple & Naramachi area

OCT 25 - Todaiji Temple (Daibutsuden Hall, Nigatsudo Hall, Hokkedo Hall) - Nara Deer Park - Kasugayama Primeval Forest - Kasuga Taisha Grand Shrine - Yoshikien Garden - Kofukuji Temple - (transit to Osaka late afternoon) - Shinsaibashi Shopping Arcade

OCT 26 - Sacra Famiglia (Osaka Umeda Catholic Church) - Tenmangu Shrine & Shopping District - Den Den Town - Hozenji Temple & Hozenji Yochoko Alley - (transit to KIX by late afternoon)

kja

Much better! But I think you plan could still too rushed, and I think you might want to pay a bit more attention to when things are open. Why put Byodo-in, which I believe closes at 5 p.m, as the LAST thing you plan to visit on your day around Uji? Especially when Fushimi Inari is open 24/7? And while Gangoji was not one of the temples I visited in Nara, I'm not sure you can get to it in time to visit as you propose, and am puzzled that you are going to try to visit it on a day when you will, at best, arrive late in the afternoon and even though there are other things you hope to see in Nara that are open later.

Keep at it!

elsewhereist

Hi Kja!

I somehow anticipated a question on my timing of Fushimi Inari. I actually took into consideration what you said about sunset hours (which I hadn't till that point!). As you said, Fushimi Inari is open 24/7 (compared to the usual 9am of temples) so I figured I would visit really early (7:30 or even 7am) so then make it to Uji by ~9:30am to spend the rest of the day there. That way, I could take my time in Uji and not feel rushed to return to Fushimi Inari before dark.

As for Gangonji, it's pretty near where our hostel, and it's one of my "only if time permits" sights so I think it's a good reserve sight in case I get to Nara by about 3 (they're open until 5).

Thanks a lot!

kja

Many temples close LONG before sunset. Check their hours!

elsewhereist

Really? I've been checking japan-guide.com and most close at 5:00pm. I actually have a column for the opening/closing hours in my itinerary file. Would you happen to have any other resource?

kja

OK, sorry, you probably have the right closing times. I just honestly have difficulty imagining that you can do all the things you plan in the time available, But I've certainly been wrong before!

Enjoy!

elsewhereist

In any case, I did as you advised and noted checkpoints. Thanks a lot for your help!

Kavey

It's really hard to give helpful comments on your itinerary because you clearly have much more stamina and speed than I do. I often do less than I'd ideally love to do as I simply don't have the energy -- and my hips and back give me a hard time if I push beyond my limits, though I do it anyway!

Even having read your comment about how quickly you did the key temple sights in SE Asia, I can't help but feel you might want longer in some of the Japanese temples. I don't know, of course, as I've not been to much of SE Asia or the big temples there that you speak of.

For me, what I enjoyed the most when visiting Japanese temples was either the beauty of the gardens, particularly for temples such as Tenryuji, in which case I liked being able to pause, find a corner to sit or stand and just soak it in, or the cultural insight, again, observing the tiny details of the temple and most of all, the people visiting, what they were doing. That said, not every temple we visited took a long time -- we stumbled into some we'd not had on our list (which wasn't as comprehensive as yours by a long shot) and some of these we just explored for a few minutes.

Some of my temple experiences/ photos are here:
http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/02/mes...of-love-1.html
http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/02/mes...of-love-2.html
http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/02/mes...of-love-3.html
http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/03/mes...of-love-4.html

I agree that Fushimi Inari is best seen when the sun is low in the sky and the light is golden red -- the way the light falls through the lines of gates, and the play of light and shadow, is truly wonderful. Even without wanting to climb that far up the paths of gates on the hill, it took us a fair bit of time to look around and photograph the main temple area before even reaching the paths of gates.

I also agree that Osaka didn't do much for me, on either of our trips. Dotonbori was just a street or two of lots of neon and lots of restaurants. We did have a lovely yakiniku dinner in a restaurant specialising in offal (but with regular cuts too) and enjoyed it. http://www.kaveyeats.com/2014/03/enj...-in-japan.html

For me, the site I loved most in Osaka was the food market, which I found quite different from Nishiki in Kyoto (which I also loved). It's a little smaller, but I was able to spend ages there, browsing the shops and stalls, and stopping for a fresh sashimi breakfast in one of the fishmonger shops.

I haven't mapped your various day plans out, but for us, we often found that it did take us more time to travel between places than we might have expected from the distance, particularly when using the bus in Kyoto. The trains, of course, are exactly on time so easy to plan using hyperdia.com

Our hotel for the second Kyoto visit was right by Teramachi & Shinkyogoku Shopping Arcades. We wondered through them for dinner most evenings, but I'd say that there's not much of interest shopping wise there. Nishiki Market, of course, is there, and well worth visiting. However, in this little maze of mostly covered criss-crossing streets, we did find quite a few tiny temples we hadn't read about, including one that is dedicated to octopus (with a charming story about why) and another where the wooden ema were an unusual spherical shape, inside which a message is placed. http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/12/kyo...-ema-tree.html

Other highlights of Kyoto for us included a half day cookery lesson with a local lady in her home.

elsewhereist

Hi Kavey!

Thank you so much for this info. this is the kind of stuff I've been hoping for. Anecdotes, stories of how people spent time there, are way better sources of information that guidebooks, even if our energy levels and travel styles differ. Enjoyed your blog entries too!

I admit, I'm a bit of an obsessive-compulsive planner, if only because I want to get all that out of the way BEFORE the trip so I can relax DURING it. I find that knowing things - whether trivia about sites or practical information like train stops and travel times - is what keeps me feeling secure and gives me the confidence to explore places and get lost. As much as I want to be more spontaneous, the lack of information stresses me out. There's room for personal development here, but I'll save that for when I'm not on vacation (hehehe).

Definitely interested about that octopus temple! It's my favorite animal so will try to pass by that one. I'm also trying to further reduce the number of sights in my itinerary. It's proving to be a really difficult task. Everything looks so beautiful and I don't know which I want to see more!

But again, thanks so much for all the info! This definitely helped.

Kavey

You are very welcome.

I'm a planner too -- I create a spreadsheet which gives me my accommodation details, trains (with times, platform numbers etc.) for any non-local journeys and any other key information such as car rental bookings or organised tours.

Other columns have definite sight-seeing plans, where they are date specific, such as festivals happening while we are there.

And an additional area has all the possibles for each location, that we can pick from according to what we feel like -- they are grouped by area of the city (in larger cities like Tokyo and Kyoto) and have quite a bit of extra info.

Then there's the remainder of the document which has all kinds of extra information, maps, lists of different food specialities to seek out and even a few restaurant recommendations, though only a handful of those.

Kyoto is wonderful to wonder around but we did far less than we thought on the first 5 night trip (though lost 1.5 days to a severe headache - ended up getting a CAT scan in the local hospital though, boy was that expensive!). We went back for 6 nights on the second trip. The nights in Nara, Osaka, Koyasan etc. were on top of those 11 Kyoto nights.

I'll dig out the Octopus temple info if I can find it...

Kavey

OK -- it's a tiny temple on Shinkyogoku Dori and is known as Tako Yakushi-do. Definitely one to seek out, even though it's tiny, I found it fascinating.

Also the original branch of Katsukura restaurant is nearby on Teramachi Dori, my favourite tonkatsu place.

elsewhereist

I was laughing to myself when I read your first reply. That sounds exactly like my itinerary! Everything from specific transportation details, entrance fees and admission hours, historical trivia, etc. I find that planning in detail is a good outlet for my excitement for my trip. It's almost like daydreaming, but you know the dreams will be made into reality soon enough.

And thanks for that info on the temple! Will definitely drop by

Kavey

Yes, the planning of a trip is part of the anticipation and the anticipation is as enjoyable as the trip itself, in many ways...