NeoPatrick's OAT Inside Vietnam Adventure

NeoPatrick,
I am really enjoying your trip report. Last year my friends took your same tour to Vietnam with OAT and loved it and sad that their guide was excellent and was very pleased with the OAT trip experience. Please keep posting.

Great beginning, Patrick! You're making me a bit homesick for Vietnam--I even went to Bat Trang. (And have the black and green tea set to prove it--that was a bit of fun to handle for the rest of the trip.) I hope OAT continued to work out for you; I've used them for a couple of trips and enjoy the way that they do things for the most part.

NeoPatrick..thank you. what a great report. I really enjoyed reading it..makes me want to go to Vietnam..and OAT sound like a great tour group. Keep posting, please.
D.

Following along with great delight...

Like you, I've never wanted to do a tour. But if I had to, this tour sounds like a great compromise between cost/convenience and having your own free time.
Keep up all the good details!

Have enjoyed your great report - can't wait to read more.
I'm interested to see what your overall opinion of OAT ends up being - I've read some good and some pretty bad about them. It sounds like at this point in the trip at least you would give them a thumbs up.

Did you find the activity level and ability of fellow OAT travelers to keep up to be an issue? I would not like a tour that was too slow or catered to a slower clientele.

Sounds like you are having fun. Thanks for the report.

I'm following along with you here, Patrick.

Were you happy with the number of places you saw in Hanoi? The place I loved most in Hanoi was the Temple of Literature. It sounds like that wasn't on the OAT itinerary.

Enjoying your report. I also like Ha Long Bay, the best part was sipping wine on the top deck after dinner when everyone went to sleep. We had the whole bay to ourselves.
For those who think they have to join a tour in order to cut cost, you can look at the hotel list at trip advisor. Some of the most popular hotels were(i traveled last winter) under US$50. I have nothing against tours, all I am saying you don't have to if you don't want to.

mohan, true to an extent, but I defy you to add up even the discounted hotel rates for one person (particularly in the four star ones where we're staying), add in four flights (including round trip Bangkok), add in the night on HaLong Bay with an airconditioned cabin for ONE (I checked on this and could only find per person prices with a minimum of 2), and match the total price of $115 a day -- not even counting all the other transportation, airport transfers, meals, etc.

What I am learning is that I am doing more on a tour than I'd do on my own. Would I have made arrangements to visit the orphanage? Would I have asked the taxi driver to stop and explain the rice growing and the communal herb farming? Would I have had a vegetarian meal in a monestary? Would I have gotten a ticket to the water puppet show? Would I have visited the ethnology museum in Hanoi and hired someone to explain the various tribal customs? Of course these are all things I COULD do on my own, and I could have carried guide books and read up on everything myself, but the bottom line is that I simply wouldn't have.

Yes,Kathie, we did visit the temple of literature,which was fascinating, and now is being related at other sites with how the whole mandarin thing worked. There are numerous other stops I'm not listing, and I just failed to mention the Temple of Literature which we visited after lunch on our full day in Hanoi.

Thanks, Patrick. I wasn't sure if you were listing all of your stops or not. It sounds like you are having a great time!

ok, so you are going to convert at least 9% of us to take tours...

loving the report and look forward to more about vn

Not to sound like a tout here, but OAT tours are different than any others I've been on. (In my very early days of travel I used to use tours, as, well, let's face it, it wasn't so easy without the Internet.) I've only been on two OAT's--I usually do travel independently and alone--but having maybe twelve people is a lot different than a group of 40 or so. I've met some interesting people, most of them a good few years older than me, but there was a 17 year old on my trip with them to South Africa; he seemed to have a great time with all us fogeys. Fogies. However you spell it.

And free single supplement is absolutely a wonderful thing.

Neo, I could become a convert if the tour group is not too large and whiny. How did you handle the early wake up calls? I just don't function at 6:30 am. Fascinating report.

I too noted on our China trip report that we would have seen and done more on a tour than we did on our own. We still prefer to be independent but one of these days .... rev up the tour bus.

I just input some dates into the OAT site for the Inside Vietnam tour and when I clicked single occupancy the price went up $1000 - I don't see anything about no single supplement.....anyway, thanks for the wonderful trip report...

The no single supplement I think might apply only to certain dates? (It's how I was able to afford South Africa!) If you get on their email list you can get updates on all of those kinds of sales, but don't get on their snail mail list--the trees will weep! (They send more catalogues than anyone I've ever known; I called to stop them, and they have, but you'll be weeping for the trees if they start mailing them.)

Thanks, Amy - I'll go onto their email list....not that I'm really planning a tour but one never knows......

Hmmmm. I didn't mean to start a controversy about tour vs. independent. How do I handle the 6:30 wake up calls? Well, actually today was our first of those, the others have been 7 or 7:30, but last night was an early night. 6:30 is pretty easy if you go to bed before 11!

Kathie, I accidentally left out the Temple of Literature, which is more major than many of the little things we do.

Yes, a group of 12 is nothing like a group of 30 or 40 I'm sure. Another interesting thing about OAT -- today we arrived in Hoi An, which apparently has many overnight tailors and people were asking for a recommendation. Most tour groups would drop you all off at their selected kick-back one, but our guide said he really doesn't give any personal recommendations, but will point out a couple that previous guests have been happy with. Those kick-back shopping things just don't exist with OAT -- at least on this tour.

I only logged on to check something after we arrived at 2:30 at our hotel and I got a quick $5 haircut. We go out at 3:30 for a walking tour of the old town. But wait till I tell you about our morning adventure today. I'm still laughing, it was so much fun. But you'll have to wait for that.

Mara, I have no idea what you're doing. I checked a bunch of dates at random and the single and the per person double rates were exactly the same. Perhaps you looked at one of the trips that require a pre or post trip option which added $1000, but it should be adding that per person regardless of single or double. The only other possibility I can think of is you picked a date where the only two single spaces are taken? I was told most of them only allow two single travelers in any group at the "no supplement" pricing.

Hoi An has good restaurants. If you miss croissant or cakes, Cargo is the place. The display is near the front entrance. Grap a seat upstairs overlooking the river. My favorite restaurant is the Secret Garden, it's tugged in a small lane, not everyone knows about this place. Cooking class in the morning and at 2pm. Even if you can't do a whole meal, go there for coffee to soak up the garden atmosphere. Massage at The Hoi An Day Spa, 47 BA TRIEU. The owner speaks English.

It's Cargo club not Cargo

why not call oat and ask them... i believe they are in boston..

This is so interesting as you have just completed an amazingly independent trip to China and SE Asia and now are on this tour. I look forward to your next installment and more impressions of OAT. Friends have been trying to get us take one of their tours for years and now you are giving me good insight into what one of their trips is like. Thanks!

Patrick: I was a bit worried about this leg of your trip but it sounds like you are doing swell. Small group, lots of free time and an excellent guide really makes a difference. Keep enjoying!

i do find it almost impossible that neither the tour company nor the guide are collecting commissions along the way however for shopping stops...

I've been on tours where I have seen the guide given cash at the end of the shopping stop, but I've also been on tours where the guide gave participants 15-20 minutes to shop and stuck to the time limit, leaving with not any pay off. It all depends on the tour company and the guide. You are mistaken if you are painting all tours with the same brush when it comes to shopping stops and commisions to the guides.

Just out of curiosity, I reviewed my trip notes for my last OAT trip. (Trip report with pix links here: http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/sixteen-days-of-south-africa-sunshine.cfm) We did indeed have one place where goods were offered for sale: the orphanage/school compound run by one of the aunts of the king of Swaziland for the hundreds of AIDS-victim orphans and other children. I got a doll that looked just like the chief (the king's aunt) and cost me, oh, maybe about five bucks. I really don't think the guide was getting a kickback on that. The stop included demos, dancing, and a tour of the school, with lunch included; OAT support has enabled them to build a lav system, among other things.


Again, I'm an independent traveler and not all about defending OAT, but this isn't your standard tour. (In Peru, there was one stop at a pottery kiln, but those who preferred got taken back to the hotel instead, and another stop at another of OAT's charities where the women weave their way to some financial freedom; definitely not sales pressure for either.)

Sorry for the bit of a hijack, Patrick, but just wanted to give my point of view on what was questioned.

"i do find it almost impossible that neither the tour company nor the guide are collecting commissions along the way however for shopping stops..."

Well of course, if you want to believe they are, then believe away. One type of person who should never travel on a group tour is the type of person who never trusts or believes anyone. But since there are NO shopping stops on the OAT tour at all (with the exception of the "humanity shop" which is a charity), I really don't understand where you think the commissions are coming in. Care to explain? Your preconceived idea of a group tour and this particular actual tour are not one and the same.

There is a deliberate attempt at "giving back to the countries we travel to" with OAT, including their Grand Circle Foundation which gives millions of dollars mostly raised by their travelers. For example there were forms passed out to contribute to the children's orphanage we visited, and it's clear that the trip there was in part to encourage financial support from the travelers. I'm sure some travelers might throw a tantrum about "I paid enough, why do they expect us to support their pet project?" -- again the type of traveler I'd just as soon not have on MY tour.

HUE to HOI AN, VIETNAM

It was a nice flight to Hue, and our bus was waiting. Off we went to our hotel for the next two nights -- The Camellia, which was a very lovely hotel -- nice rooms with lots of amenities, and in a nice location, you could walk to the river or shops or whatever if you wanted. There was a nice restaurant on the top floor, where several of us headed for a late dinner (about 9:30 I guess) -- dinner was not included tonight -- which many welcomed saying they'd been eating too much! I opted for a nice stir fry dish of beef and vegetables -- and had them attempt a dry robroy for me. That part wasn't so successful, so after drinking a martini glass of dry vermouth with a drop or two of Scotch in it, I opted for a Johnnie Walker Black on the rocks -- much appreciated.

Wake up call was our earliest so far -- 6:30. But all were prompt -- Lee had given a pretty firm warning about that from the start and no one wanted to be the one to hold others up. A very good thing. Buffet breakfast in the roof top restaurant was particularly nice, and they did what Lee had told us was one of the best Pho soups around. Not everyone's choice at breakfast, but nothing like a good bowl of really good beef noodle soup to get you going. They did it the right way -- with a long and slow cooked broth, and they'd just lightly cook the beef slices in the broth for each bowl, then ladle them and broth over the noodles, add greens and bean sprouts, chilis and lime to taste. Really good.

We then boarded the bus for the short ride to the citadel -- the remains of the old city capital -- from 1802 to 1945. It was all kind of interesting, and I actually enjoyed seeing a Forbidden City area that was quite old and decaying -- not all perfectly restored and freshly painted. The water lilies in the moat reminded me of a Monet. Next we reboarded the bus for a ride to the Thien Mu Pagoda, and a discussion about various forms of Buddhism, including differences between Vietnam Buddhism and some others. Next we headed to a very small almost countryside like pagoda run by a group of Buddhist nuns. We were served lunch in their rectory. It was all vegetarian -- and was really delicious, including a tofu dish and a salad dish that one would swear had meat. In addition to the nuns sometimes serving meals, they also make incense sticks which was quite interesting. Rice sticks both undipped and dipped were out in the sun to dry.

After lunch we returned to our hotel (about 2:30 with a couple hours at leisure before meeting at 4:45 to go to the Minh Tu Orphanage. This was truly a highlight of the trip so far. As we got off the bus, we were greeted by adorable children running out, tugging at our hands and leading us into a large room where they entertained us with a sort of dance/fashion show with music -- they had assembled costumes -- kind of a Vietnamese version of "dress up". Then we entertained them with a couple songs. We toured the nursery with a few infants new to the orphange, but it houses nearly 200 children from infancy into college years. There goal is not to adopt the children out, but more to give them a chance there. They go to public schools and a number of the older ones go to college, still living at the orphanage. It was a surprisingly "happy" place with clearly a lot of love. There was also a local high school "club" which came to visit while we were there. They come to play and tutor children, and we witnessed a "tutoring class" for those apparently taking algebra. It was time for dinner, and some of our group joined in serving the food, then we left.

Our dinner was at Phuoc Thanh restaurant. Another family style meal of various Vietnamese dishes. We returned to the hotel about 9 PM. I heard my friend Johnny (Walker) calling to me from the rooftop lounge.

The next morning, was another 6:30 wake up call and at 8 after another super buffet breakfast we departed by bus -- about 4 hours or more to DaNang then on to Hoi An. We had a couple semi-improvised stops along the way -- one was on the road when a couple young boys were riding and tending their water buffalo. Lee talked with them and like many rural school children, they only go to school half a day, and help on the farm or tend the animals the other half day. People took turns having their pictures taken on the water buffalos, etc. Lee gave them a small amount of money to divide between the three of them and had told us NOT to give them more.

Another stop was along a lagoon where they are raising oysters, but sadly no one was out collecting them. But we also stopped by a nice hotel and it made a good restroom break.

But the highlight of the morning came when we were riding and Lee told us he had just gotten a call from our chef for the dinner tonight, and that he needed us to stop and buy a few things at the market. So he passed out 10 notes of 1000 dong each to each of us (they're worth about a nickel each) and a piece of paper. He told us three things (sounded like toi, guhng, and ooht), but didn't tell us what they were or even how to spell them. Then we stopped at a big small village market where no one would speak any English and we all were to go find and buy one piece of each -- at the same time practicing our "hello, thank you, how much is it, and good bye" in Vietnamese. Back on the bus, I think only one couple got them all right -- it was a piece of ginger, a bulb of garlic, and one chili pepper. I somehow ended up with both dried and fresh chili and the ginger but no garlic. Some ended up with really bizarre things. It was great fun.

In DaNang we stopped on a fishing beach to look at the big round baskets covered with pitch or tar and used as little boats to transport fish and the fisherman from the bigger boats to the shore. And we stopped at what was called China Beach -- but the government forbids the use of that name as it is attached to the "American War". Now it is being developed with a casino and some major resort hotels and condos.

We had a delightful lunch at Goda Restaurant on the edge of Hoi An, and then went to check into our hotel, Phuoc An. The hotel was nice -- not as "luxurious" as the Camellia. This was a stop where Lee had told us the hotel will do laundry by the kilo ($2 a kilo) which is an amazing bargain, so I rounded up 4 kilos of laundry -- practically everything I have with me. And I also went for a $5 haircut in the barber/beauty salon. Not bad. Some of the women were getting pedicures and manicures as well. We had a couple of hours before meeting at 3:30 for a walking tour of ancient Hoi An (trying to wait till after the worst heat of the day -- and it WAS hot).
Hoi An has a ton of character, with a nice mix of French Colonial and Chinese architecture and an odd Japanese bridge that led to a Japanese Quarter, long gone. Hoi An had been a major port until the river silted up and the port moved to DaNang. We wandered through the markets and Lee bought a number of different exotic fruits that he cut up and distributed (bon bons were a favorite). And we stopped at a tiny commercial bakery with just one modern revolving oven that does nothing but bake baguettes, and he bought one for each of us to try -- wow, REAL French bread just from the oven.

After the general tour, including a stop in an old temple and a brief sit-down talk with tea in the "oldest" house with one of the family members, we had about an hour on our own to scatter for cocktails or some shopping before our 6 PM cooking class/dinner at Champa Resatuarant with "Hero" the funny and entertaining chef who could have his own TV cooking show. We all took turns wrapping fish in banana leaves and also rolling our own spring rolls. The meal was fun and excellent.

A little stroll along the river in Hoi An showed us that this town really is much prettier at night. It's filled with delightful little bars and restaurants, many along the river, and the whole glow of the town is so pretty at night. Then our bus took us back to the hotel, where I walked across the street to a little bamboo place built above the river (a small branch of the main river) and sat having some more Johnny Walker. This was probably the best day so far. Really a great day that had been jam packed and a four hour ride that had been great fun. Oh, talk on the bus turned to the "American War" and Lee related some very personal family stories, about his father who ran to hide from the attacking Northern soldiers when their south village was invaded, and how his father then was imprisoned for several months. Also about their house that was destroyed in another attack several years later, and various other personal accounts of how the war affected their family. He also passed around a special family album he made which includes pictures of his grandfather who was the French teacher to the last king of Vietnam.

The next day, Monday, we had breakfast -- again this hotel had a rooftop restaurant, but the Pho wasn't as good. Then we boarded the bus for about an hour and a half ride to My Son, the Champa temple ruins which were from the 7th to 14th centuries. Hardly an Angkor Wat, but still interesting, especially knowing that some of the ruins are about 300 years older than anything at Angkor Wat. We returned to Hoi An for what many of us thought was our best lunch so far -- at Morning Glory, which is also a cooking school. We had amazing fresh spring rolls with shrimp, the BEST vegetable curry soup, carmel pork, steamed rice, banana flower salad, fresh baguettes, really good mixed vegetables, and a dessert that seemed to be a bread pudding with coconut, dates?, and various other things in it. Every bite of this food was really bursting with flavor and excellent. Originally the bus was to return to the hotel after lunch and we had a few free hours before the optional tour at 4 PM. Anyone wanting to stay in town could, but would then need to get a cyclo or taxi back to the hotel, but everyone seemed to want to just browse a little then go back to the hotel, so happily Lee agreed and we all scattered for about a half hour or 45 minutes and re-met for the bus back to the hotel.

(Pause here, as I'm totally caught up and now waiting for that 4 PM optional tour).

LOVE you report, don't let the detractors about tour groups etc distract you (LOL)
I am really enjoying travelling along with you.

For your info i have booked Pilu!

Patrick-Did you feel you had enough time in Hue and Hoi An? Did you get to see the Emperor's tombs along the river? I am enjoying your detailed report. As a traveller who loves a good tour as much as independent travel, I am glad you are enjoying your time on tour. But you are right about some people not being cut out for a touring with others, no matter how good the tour, how great the guide or how nice the other travellers are.

No, we did not see the Emperor's tombs.

Something I left out above though. When we were going through the citadel in Hue, we had noticed a group of maybe 10 Vietnamese men maybe in their 60's. Lee, our guide talked with one of them and found they were a group of Northern Vietnamese veterans from the war. They had been encamped in the Citadel during the war apparently when it was bombed (?). One of our group was a pilot of transport planes flying missions into Vietnam during the war. We had an impromptu meeting, they all shook hands, expressed a few thoughts about the war, and all agreed they hold no animosity. All this was being translated back and forth by Lee, accompanied with lots of picture taking from each side. It was really quite a moving little "ceremony".

Now back to today. At 4 PM we were met at our hotel by a team of cyclo drivers. This was an optional tour that cost $45 per person including dinner. We embarked on a "tour" through the rural countryside outside Hoi An. We passed fish farms, rice paddies (they are presently harvesting and burning), and saw a strange mixture of old poor houses and very fancy brand new houses. We learned this area was all very poor until a few years ago. Real estate has soared, and many poorer farmers or fishermen who own their land have discovered they can sell a portion of it for building. So some wealthy businesspeople from Hoi An and DaNang as well as other cities are building homes there, some along the river. And often the land owner only sells a portion of the land so he continues to live in a ramshackle house while a fancy new home goes up right next to him. At one place we stopped, Lee talked with an old woman living in one of the poorest houses we saw, and she invited us in. (He has done this before with her, as well as with a few other people -- they don't always visit the same ones). This delightful 87 year old lady who lives alone (both her husband and her only son died years ago). She has black teeth from chewing beetle nuts -- a sign of beauty to her generation. She showed us pictures of her family, including a niece and grandniece who live near by and happened to come by as well. The kitchen is a separate shack, mostly of bamboo, with a stack of wood, an open fire with a grate on it, and a single non refrigerated cabinet for food. Her "outhouse" was suprisingly new -- with a new porceilan squat toilet and new tile floor -- this is via the government insisting on septic tanks and plumbing for all people. It was all very interesting.

After about an hour of cyclo riding we were taken to a makeshift pier where we boarded one of the old tourist boats which had been brought there for us, and for an hour or more cruised the river, watching a guy lower one of the huge rigged fishing nets into the river, a small ferry load up with motorcycles and drivers to go across the river, and witnessed a spectacular sunset over the water. We ended up cruising into Hoi An and disembarked to have dinner at River Lounge, across the little river from the strip of restaurants on the main side. We sat outside in the garden overlooking the river and had wonderful pumpkin soup with coconut milk, delicious fried spring rolls, herb roasted chicken, sauteed beef with peppers, eggplant cooked in a clay pot, rice -- of course--and brownies for dessert. We also drank LaRue, the local beer, which was included.

A very pleasant day indeed.

Sign me up for this trip.

Sounds like your tour is working out for you. I remember Morning glory. We went there for dinner but the place was full so I booked a table for the following night. The food was very good. I also had better-than-France Crossant and Baquette in my hotel for breakfast. Now I remember.

Patrick, it sounds like this OAT trip has been just perfect for you - I'm so glad.

In my opinion, tours are more sucessful when most meals and excursions are included so the group has a more cohesive feeling. Plus this guide sounds unusually good. Glad this is working out so well.

Your trip sounds wonderfrul. I has made me even more anxious to do ours which is scheduled in April. We are going with Smartours, and hope it will be equally exciting.

Not so sure about Elainee's post re included meals bonding the group. I have only been on one previous escorted tour (usually travel independently), and like to have some meals on our own or share it with another couple or 2. It's fun picking out your own restaurant and eating what you want when you want. It's also nice to have an occasional quiet meal. Either way, there's something for everyone re travel. Never thought we'd do a tour, and here we are booked for a second one. I think that at our ages (60s), a tour is appropriate for some venues. When we have done large cities, ie Budapest, Prague, Vienna, Rome, etc., it is really easy on your own, but when visiting a country (top to bottom) we found the tour to be the way to go. We also really enjoyed the cameraderie of our fellow travelers.

Keep posting..you're doing an amazing job.

I agree with floridagal. For me the best tours are ones that allow you some free choice of meals and enough free time to get away from the group and do your own thing. I've been on several Smartours and they have been excellent. I would have gone to Vietnam with them, but they combine it with Angkor Wat which we have already visited. So for us, it is OAT or DIY. I still have not decided. I am awaiting more info from Patrick, as the back end of the OAT tour (Da Nang and Dalat)is what I have concerns about.

Patrick...

Really enjoying your report. I'm heading to Vietnam in March with a small group of 12. A friend who puts small group tours together is doing this and our itinerary for Vietnam is very similar to yours. I'm especially liking all the restuarant/dining information you've given.

Enjoy the rest of the tour...looking forward to reading more!

Patrick - I loved the story about the war veterans at the citadel in Hue. In the end, that's what travel is all about, isn't it?

even i, an anti-tour guy, like the sound and feel of this tour experience...

I think NP is getting a kickback from OAT for writing such a positive trip report.

Outstanding work, Patrick. We'll be visiting Hanoi & Halong Bay this spring, and your report is definitely piquing my interest!

I am really enjoying your report. What a shame that you did not get to see the Tombs at Hue, but your time in the orphanage sounded wonderful. Wish I could convince my husband to consider tours. I've heard from others that OAT tours are wonderful. Waiting for more.

dgunbug-In looking at the OAT itinerary, I noticed that they did not go to the tombs which I really would like to see. How many hours, door to door, did it take you to see the Emperors tombs? Patrick-I am wondering if I have enough time to squeeze it into 2 or 3 hours of free time in the afternoon between lunch and the trip to the orphanage..

Great report Patrick, it's come just in time for my trip next week.

We did 3 tombs and the Pagoda as a full morning tour. I believe the Pagoda was already part of the package tour, so if you hire a taxi you can do at least one or two of the Emperor's tombs in a few hours.

Focus on the tombs of Minh Mang and Tu Doc. Two or three hours should be enough. The Tomb of Khai Dinh can be safely skipped--it was built in the 1920s and is of little artistic or historical interest.

NHA TRANG:

We flew from DaNang Airport -- the old military airfield where they are building a major new terminal to handle the new resort traffic. We arrived at the new Nha Trang airport which is quite a way out of town, and the bus transported us into the center to our hotel -- Angella, which is a nice smallish (but 8 story) hotel that is run by the government and whose main business is weddings. There are three huge beautiful reception halls each opening to the outside. On Tuesday evening there were three weddings going on -- one in each, and on Wednesday evening there were 2. The hotel is a block from the beach and although nearly all of us had rooms facing the sea, a huge new hotel is being built almost next door blocking that view.

We pulled into the hotel just long enough for them to unload our bags so they will be in our room when we get back, then we went to a tiny rural village a few miles out called Xom Gio for what OAT calls "A Day in the Life". We walked a small dirt path, the only "road" to many of the houses and we met with the village "chief" a volunteer but elected position who is the "go between" for the village and the government powers who control everything. He and his wife welcomed us into their very humble home and showed us around. We were having lunch there, and the wife asked for help in the kitchen. I stir fried the bok choy with garlic in a wok on the 2 burner gas stove. The kitchen was about 110 degrees! They set a couple of tables out in the front yard with chairs, and a delicious lunch was served out there, followed by green tea. The man and his wife then joined us for conversation with our guide as interpreter. Fascinating people -- he was a soldier for the south, and it is indeed unusual for him to now have any position of power. They have three married children all living near by and one unmarried son still living at home.

Afterwards we walked to a nearby house where the whole family's occupation is basketweaving. We sat with them on their big front cement floor "porch" (most homes have these big open but covered areas where all kinds of activity take place. The family of 5 did everything from split the bamboo to make the "strands", trim them down, weave them making circles, put a ring top on them and shape them, and trim them off with a sort of machete. We took turns helping to weave.
Next we visited another family which makes simple chopsticks from bamboo -- again the bamboo literally grows at their doorstep. Only women were doing this -- splitting bamboo into square sticks, another woman scraping the ends into rounds, and other woman trimming them all up. We also briefly visited another family which Grand Circle helped to support. There were three houses in this village which were really in horrible shape, and money was given to rebuild them in brick and cement and finish. We saw before and after pictures. The families are very grateful -- one of these families also weaves baskets for a living. One woman is a widow with a number of children.

After our visit to the village we returned to our hotel for a brief rest and shower and then we met and were taken to dinner at Gia, a lovely garden restaurant in NaTrang -- really good Vietnamese food.

The next morning we were bused to the harbor and boarded a small boat to go to Mieu Island and visit the fishing village. Lee pointed out lots of things regarding small businesses, school life, and the life of fishing families. We then boarded the boat again and toured the many fish holding tanks -- actually just netted pools within the bay where they put various fish which have been caught until prices raise in their favor. Several of our group opted to pay women to row them around in those 5 foot round baskets.

After this we headed the opposite side of the island which is a lovely beach. There is a sort of "private" resort without hotel there -- where we had a row of padded chaise lounges under the palm trees. There is a nice bar and a restaurant, water sports for rent, and you could even get manicures, pedicures, or massages right there. We had four hours there. I had the first pedicure of my life. The woman was doing the girl next to me and kept looking at my nasty feet and keep saying, "I can fix those" -- so she did -- for just $5. Lunch was on our own -- I opted for a wonderful plate of grilled squid with cucumbers and tomatoes and some wonderful spicy chili dipping sauce, as well as a mojito. I am NOT a beach person, but this four hours of pampering and relaxation really hit the spot. But a half hour before we were to leave, everyone started running -- they had seen the wind and the waves change and knew the rain was coming. And indeed it did -- a deluge for about 20 minutes -- we all ran for shelter. Then it slacked off and we took the boat and then the bus back to the hotel. We had all the rest of the afternoon and evening free. Some went to the Sailing Club (not a club) right on the beach for dinner. I ended up bar hopping with my new best friend, Johnny (Walker, that is). And although I was convinced I was going to find a great little hole-in-the-wall Vietnamese place for dinner, I ended up a place called The Grill Room with a big Argentine steak following a wonderful warm potato with grilled squid salad. I ended up with a final meeting with Johnny at the bar right on the beach at the Sailing Club, and walked the "promenade" all the way back along the beach to the hotel.

I originally wasn't terribly interested in Nha Trang as it just sounded like a commercial beach resort -- and I guess mainly it is, but our Day in the Life experience was wonderful, as were the walks in the fishing village and the relaxation at the beach. I'm sure in another 10 years no one will recognize this town. There are huge hotels and resorts being built everywhere there and many diving shops are expanding their businesses. Economy is great in Nha Trang.

I love the sound of your tour! The Day in the Life portion sounded fabulous.

loving the report...

Patrick,
My mother-in-law (late 70's) and her husband (early 80's) are taking my 13 yr old nephew with them on this tour in late December. I just sent an e-mail to them with a link to your report. They are looking forward to the trip but once they read this, they will really be excited about going. Thanks for posting.

Still reading & loving your report.

I've been enjoying reading this in-progress trip report, and even began to look up dates and flight information for March 2011. Then, when I was almost sold on it, I came across this review of the Vietnam OAT on Tripadvisor: http://tinyurl.com/27gfqq5 The writer is a second-time OAT user, has some nice things to say about them, but issues some caveats too.
Briefly, he says OAT is OK for what it does, but the meals are mediocre and tedious and taken in groups (vegetable soup twice daily); the shops you're taken to are overpriced; the optional add-on tours are expensive; and, you're on a kind of "tour bus circuit" with others along the same routes and to the same sites as the OAT group.
I was also wondering if the bargain Neopatrick achieves as a single traveller would be diminished for two people? I.e., a couple can pool their $276 daily costs and get more for less, esp in the hotel.

I just read the Trip Advisor review and it certainly does not sound like Patrick's experience, especially the comments conserning the boring, mediocre food. The TA review was written in April, so maybe OAT has changed restaurants. As for the comments on the optional tours, people are free to take them or leave them, and do there own thing during free days. As far as saving money, I do not think the OAT tour is any less expensive than 2 people travelling independently. But the tour seems to do things that would be difficult for independent travellers to organize on their own, such as home hosted meals, and school visits.

i too poo poo the TA report....the guy obviously had an ax to grind...

he is simply not a tour guy...just like me and that is why i don't do tours... if you want total flexibility then you do not do tours...period!! just imagine the food issue...ok, everyone can order from the menu...i start with and end with champagne, and in between i always have the filet.. i nver eat rice, that is for asians... i want the double chocolate cake with conac sauce for breakfast....just see the chaos and the expense...

why can't we go over there and see that lighthouse? no problem, how do we get a boat on the spur of the moment and take 10 people out there??

get my jist?

i think patrick's trip is accurate and fun...i even looked up the trip for the price....i can tell you that we are doing is for far less money than he and in just as good if not better hotels...

One of the reasons I like tours is because of the structure. If wake up call is 6:30 or 7:00, then I know my DH and I will have a full day or sightseeing, which is why I am taking the tour. One of us, who shall remain nameless, can't sleep late and leave the hotel at 11:30am unless he wants to get left behind at the hotel. So structure works fine for me, eliminating any discussion on what time to wake up or what to do for the day. I never take optional tours, preferring to hire a car and driver or use public transportation to see what I want during free time. This is where I work in the flexible part of the sightseeing.

Yes, I agree that the OAT tour that Patrick is on does sound good for a tour. For a solo traveler, it is a great way to perhaps have "built in" friends. But it doesn't really sound like Patrick has found that on his tour as he does mention going solo for drinks and dinner rather than with any friends.

The Nha Trang day by OAT described here is offered by numerous agents in Nha Trang, some very similar to what Patrick did, some including many more crafty kinds of stops, most including lunch in a home environment. There are many options for similar days for private or join in tours. It does, in fact, seem as though that what OAT offers is pretty standard tour fare for the area.

While I have not priced out the Vietnam tour, in the past I did price out an OAT Thailand tour and found that for the money, I could get better hotels in better locations, include some private tours to cover the sightseeing, private car or air transport, and not pay any more than the OAT price even with a generous amount of money included in the calculations for meals and miscellaneous expenses. Plus, so whatever I wanted rather than what the tour had scheduled. I'd guess Vietnam would be similar.

I'd say that if you are sure the tour is right for you and are accepting of the limitations and the price is agreeable, then do it. But if not, know that you can do it on your own with a bit of effort and research.

"But it doesn't really sound like Patrick has found that on his tour as he does mention going solo for drinks and dinner rather than with any friends."

Huh? I have wonderful friends at home. But I still do things solo. And I've traveled extensively with a couple friends, but we still go our own ways some times. What does going out ONE evening by myself have to do with not having "built-in friends" on the tour? I'm in a great group and we all get along fabulously. Will any of them be my new best friend forever? No, I don't think so. We were joking just yesterday that what this group seems to be missing is one traveler who stands out as being the obnoxious one -- the one everyone else talks about (unless it's me and I just didn't know it). And I DO like the idea that there are opportunities in the tour to reflect by myself and do somethingon my own. I can't imagine how anyone would consider that a negative (other than having a mind made up that there is nothing good about tours--even having a little independence is bad?). KimJapan, since you clearly believe in traveling alone, I can't imagine why you would think anyone would want to stick with the group 24/7.

And KimJapan, if you have some time to kill, do me a favor. Check out the cost of the 5 flights in this tour (including the flights between Bangkok and Vietnam-- then add in the cost of getting from Nha Trang to Dalat, from Hanoi to Halong Bay and back, from Hue to Hoi An, and from Hoi An to Danang. Then add in the cost of a SINGLE cruise on Halong Bay on an air-conditioned boat. Then allow $50 per night for rooms for 17 nights (even though you will not match the quality of the hotels we're staying in for that price in most cases, particularly in Bangkok). Then tell me how much of the $1900 this tour costs you have left over to pay for all the other transportation, for hiring private guides and drivers and getting to various places, for the nearly 45 meals, for admissions, all the bottled water they give us, the various snacks, and many extras. My guess is that you will have spent the $1900 before you get to ANY of that, just on the airfares, transfers, and hotels.

I don't mind people not liking tours. Fine. But for some to keep insisting I could have matched this trip on my own for the same price, I'd really like some proof. Meanwhile I'd like to know how one goes about arranging a group dinner in a monestary or visiting an orphange, and arranging to be hosted in a family home for lunch and another one for dinner. Or why any traveler traveling solo would want to do those things alone.

And WillJame, yes, the savings would certainly be diminished when two people are sharing a room. Literally they together are paying double for the exact same room that I'm getting for 17 nights (none of my rooms have been special singles, but all have been doubles).

I've also been surprised at some of the flexibility of the tour -- certainly which wouldn't happen with a larger group. Yesterday on the way back from our other stops, several people had asked about "Crazy House" in Dalat -- they had read about it and it isn't on our itinerary, so the guide asked how many were interested, and when many were, he said the bus was going by there on our way back to the hotel and we could stop for a half hour (in ended up 20 minutes was fine) so we did. We have stopped the bus a dozen times for impromptu photo ops, or to stop and talk with a farmer near the road harvesting rice, or the boys moving their water buffalo, for example. And I never would have had any of those opportunities for the interaction and learning if I had been traveling on my own. The interaction with REAL Vietnamese (not just hotel staff and shop and restaurant people) and the true learning about the local culture and people has been the biggest difference between this tour and the other 7 weeks of Asia travel I did independently before starting this trip. It is a HUGE difference.

from that TA report: "the meals are mediocre and tedious".

I laugh -- yes having Vietnamese food two to three times a day (most of the hotels offer both Vietnamese and Western breakfast), can be tedious to some, and I've even heard here "all the food starts to taste the same." Yes, there is generally soup twice a day and most Vietnamese soups are different, weather they are chicken, shrimp, noodle, no noodle, white bean, asparagus, or any of the other various types we have had. And he is right. There is no real variety like fajitas tonight, or spaghetti and meatballs another. People who want lots of other choices in food rather than local should not travel with OAT -- where all meals (with our one lunch exception in Hanoi) are definitely very typical Vietnamese cooking. And all our meals have been served family style with a minimum of four main courses. If someone only wants the chicken, or the pork, or the seafood, or the beef dish -- then he can do that. But if course if you take some of each of those, then likely the next day you're going to see variations on those same four main courses (generally all with vegetables of various kinds and different sauces). We've also had venison and lamb, and more kinds of seafood that you can imagine.

Some people will complain about the food no matter what. When I did go off by myself the other night, part of the reason was that the others were going to a more "Western" restaurant. But when I stopped and looked a lot of Vietnamese menus in front of restaurants, I was having a hard time finding anything on any menu which I haven't already had on this tour. It's been about as varied as one cuisine can be -- with even having regional differences in the same dish.

Relax. It was a simple observation about your alone time. You just had not rely mentioned any friends made on the tour and you did mention dining alone. No more. No less.

As far as the home and school visits, a quick google search on Nha Trang tours yielded a slew of results, private and join in, that had your same experiences and more.

I'm not going to Vietnam anytime soon, nor do I have time or inclination to price it all out now, which is why I said I had not done it.

I'm glad that you are enjoying your tour. Really. I'm just saying you can do it on your own, especially meeting local people and talking to farmers. No need for a bus tour for that.

I will repeat myself. If the tour itinerary, price and style are agreeable to you and you are fine with the limitations of a tour then do it. If not, you can do it on your own. Do what you want. What's right for one may be wrong for another. Luckily we have options.

Oh and while someone above said, "what a shame you didn't get to see the tombs at Hue", well I could have. I had enough free time. This tour focuses much more on the things one can't do easily on one's own (like the interaction with locals). While some of the more obvious sites are included on the basic tour, others are up to your own discretion and easy to arrange on your own. After visiting the Ming tombs in China (which seem to get much bigger raves than the Hue tombs) and finding them a yawn, I doubt thought that I would have done them.

It's also funny that I sat next to an Australian couple on the plane to Nha Trang and I asked them if they had seen the tombs, as this was just after reading the question that morning here about seeing them. It seems they took a tour with a small group (they are traveling independently) and it was to visit something like 5 of the tombs. The group (I think there were 6 or them) decided after four not to to the others and asked if they could return. It was incredibly hot, and according to this couple "One was really interesting, the others were nothing to get excited about". I questioned our group leader and he said OAT used to include them but it was one of the least impressive things in Hue according to the travelers -- and they have since focused there more on the orphanage and pagoda visits (where we had lunch).

OK, KimJapan, I'll agree that it is possible when traveling alone to do some of those interaction things by making special arrangements. But interaction with a farmer along the road short of hiring a private guide/interpreter? Would anyone be able to ask the questions I ask and get an answer? Could anyone explain what I'm looking at time and time along the side of the road? And the bottom line is that while I COULD do some of those things, I simply wouldn't, and I'd venture to say that 99% of independent travelers don't do those things like school or orphanage visits or having lunch with the Buddhist nuns either. I've always regarding tours as mainly just hitting the most "touristed" spots in an area. Well, I'm finding that with this OAT tour, it's exactly the opposite. We often skip the spots most typically visited by most independent or group travelers, and instead do the more unusual or close to the local culture learning experiences. Again, that's not for everyone! And certainly if you're interested in hitting the tourist and famous highlights of the country rather than interacting with locals, then the OAT Inside Vietnam tour is definitely NOT for you, and you are likely to come back very disappointed.

I guess what I'm really saying that for ME the real difference on this trip was that traveling alone as I did in China, Thailand, and Laos I did LESS than I'm doing on this tour. If you want to put it this way, then an organized tour tends to "make" me do a lot of things I simply never would have done on my own -- and I'm loving that. Today it is raining in Dalat. If I were here on my own, I probably would just do very little today but maybe revisit the market we visited yesterday. But my bus will be here in 15 minutes and we are off to a variety of adventures and that's a GOOD thing for me. Would I be getting up at 6:30 to squeeze in five activities in one day if I were traveling alone? Nope. But I'm glad I am. I can sleep till 9 when I get back home.

now lets get back to the really interesting stuff...NP's trip and how he is enjoying it!!

NeoPatrick - this is why I don't ever write anything about trips when I've gone with a tour even though they have been fabulous and I think the information could help others who are looking for a similar experience. Most fodorites do not like to believe a tour can be anything but their worst nightmare -- which they can be I'm sure. But with some good planning & research (& luck) you can find one that surpasses what you would experience independently. Glad you found that!

Right on, rhkkmk....taking an escorteed tour is not just about the money....it is also about the ease of the trip and the cameraderie of fellow travelers (hopefully). Those doing it know that there will likely be some concessions made...but don't we always make concessions in life. I, too prefer independent travel, but sometimes a tour just makes sense.

Let's hear more about your wonderful trip...I'm anxious to do ours.

Patrick: I can't wait to hear more about the trip!

Patrick, many thanks for your thoughtful and persuasive replies to the various issues that have been raised. I apologize if my questions about OAT derailed what was intended as a trip report. I am trying to weigh the options of tour vs independent, and have been looking into dates and itineraries.
If folks will permit another comment: Patrick, I believe you mentioned somewhere above--I can't find it now--that your tour was almost cancelled due to a lack of participants. I notice elsewhere that a traveller was disappointed by a last-minute OAT cancellation. The Inside Vietnam tour that I was looking at yesterday for 8-25 March is not on the OAT website today. (In the meantime I had been looking at various flights to Hanoi from Japan.) The "subject to change" factor was not something I had thought of with regard to tours.
I want to assure my fellow posters that I am not just nit-picking or fault-finding here. I genuinely want to get some first-hand information to help my make my own decision. I thought that this is partly what this forum is about.
But, yes, let's hear more about your trip.

OAT removes dates from their web pages as the date becomes filled to capacity(16). If the March 8 date is no longer there, then it is probably filled. Also, OAT, as do most other tour companies, reserve the right to cancel the trip if too few people sign up for the trip. So if you make your own plane reservations, this is a risk that you must assume. If you do the air inclusive with the trip company, and the trip is cancelled, then you are out nothing. Patrick-I am really enjoying your report, and look forward to hearing about the last few days of the trip.

WillJame, I don't know what happened to those dates but I'd be astonished if a March trip was already sold out. They might easily sell out the two available single postions, but hardly a whole tour that far in advance. But they've been readjusting, partially because they are putting more emphasis on their "Ancient Kingdoms" tours, according to our leader (he's in training to do that tour as well, which includes Cambodia and Laos, I think). I would think perhaps they are still re-arranging things that far ahead, not selling it out. But who knows.

Yes, I did my own airfare as part of an extended Asia trip, and that's why I worried if they canceled the trip, because I could not readjust my flight dates. Most people on our tour booked in the last two to three months before going. But the possibility of cancellation is something to think about if you're doing your own airfare.

Hold on folks, I just arrived in Saigon, and I'll try to get caught up today with the DaLat part of the trip.

DALAT:

The bus left NhaTrang at 8:30 for the 4 hour or so drive to Dalat.
Lee, our guide, was telling us that he and his wife love Dalat but it makes him sad to go there without his wife because it is such a romantic city -- well, I didn't get that. But he also spent a year there as a boy when their family were war refugees living there, and he had a young brother die there -- appendicitis that couldn't be diagnosed until too late.

The drive up the mountains was beautiful, and we meade several stops for photo ops, including one where Lee was handed all 12 cameras to take a group photo with each of them. We also stopped and "chatted" with some farmers picking coffee beans and persimmons growing together. This is the height of the persimmon "harvest" and we saw them everywhere. Upon arrival in Dalat we were astonished by the thousands of green houses (actually frames with plastic --not glass) as Dalat is the flower growing and vegetable growing capital of Vietnam, exporting tons of cut flowers mainly to Japan and Korea.

We had lunch at a little restaurant called Trong Dong -- as usual family style and about four main courses, plus appetizers and dessert.

Afterwards we made a stop at the market and Lee walked us through, sampling some of the dried fruits and the fruit candies made locally. Then we went to the nearby mountain and took a long cable car down into a valley to the Truc Lam Zen Buddhist Pagoda, a beatiful complex of buildings and gardens (all built within the past 20 years) as a retread for Buddhist monks and others who want to study and meditate. On the way back to our hotel, we improvised a stop at "Crazy House" because several people had asked about it, we had a little free time, and it would be easier than people coming back on their own. Crazy House is a sort of small hotel or guest house that looked like it was designed by Gaudi on crack. Actually the architect is the owner, a woman who is the former daughter of the head of the Communist Party (I think) who studied in Russia, then built this place. You wander up bizarre stairways and go into little suites that look like a cross between Hansel and Gretel cottages, and something out of Fantasia. It is truly bizarre.

Back at the hotel we had time for a shower and a change -- it had been a light drizzle much of the afternoon. The hotel was the Mercure Dalat, which some of us had worries about due to bad reviews on TripAdvisor, particularly about the lack of AC, but the fact is that NO hotel in Dalat including the only 5 star one has AC. And since it was cool -- pretty much in the 60's and maybe the 50's at night, we didn't need it and didn't need to open our windows either.

Tonight was our family hosted dinners. We split into two groups, 6 each going with two families -- pretty much middle or upper-middle class ones. Our group luckily had a couple who owned a restaurant in town for many years but they sold it and retired last year. Our food was exceptional -- spring rolls which they roll in fresh lettuce and herbs before dipping them in a sauce, white bean soup, pork in a clay pot on rice, a vegetable omelette, shrimp and tempura veggies, and later fresh persimmon milkshakes for dessert.

The purpose of these home hosted dinners (besides being a chance for us to meet some real people in their home) is that the common thread seems to be families who have kids in University in tourism and who are learning advanced English. The parents in both cases also speak English, and ours have been to the US to visit their daughter and grandchildren -- their daughter having married an American and they live in Pennsylvania. So we sat in the living room and talked about lots of things, then the niece who lives there (I lost track of things as it's a 14 room house and a couple of sisters and their families live there, but they had a couple more university guests), took us upstairs to the "shrine" to their ancestors and to their religion Cao Dai, which believes in both Buddha and Jesus as well as a number of other people. She explained their religion to us and we all lit incense and had a little prayer for our own families. It was a most interesting night (including meeting 6 adorable new born puppies).

The next morning was a optional tour, but everyone chose to take it -- I thing mainly as we didn't see a lot of options of things to do there on our own. It rained pretty much all day which added to our adventure. A local guide joined us (required -- for us to visit a local hill tribe). But first we stopped at a local farmers and visited a couple of the greenhouses -- they were growing roses, gerbera daisies in a variety of colors, statis (sp?), and baby's breath. Then we headed to the hill tribe village -- Buon Chuoi. The bus went on a dirt -- or rather MUD road until we came to a place where a gulley had washed out across the road. The driver surveyed it and although some rocks had been placed in it, he and Lee moved some and got more to make two "bridges" across the deep ravine. We all got out of the bus and trekked through the mud while the bus inched over the rocks, then we got back on. We made a stop at a nice farmhouse (where arrangements were made) for a restroom stop. Our guide said the women could use the "happy room" which was located on the main floor off a big farm storage room, and the men should use a "happy tree" behind the house. The bus then reached the end of the road, when it turned to a path too narrow and we were met by tractor pulling a wagon with benches for us to sit on (no roof) and off we went with our umbrellas up until we reached the village. OAT has donated a classroom -- a separate cement block and tin room building at the little school. We were greeted warmly by families who allowed us to walk through there very humble mostly dirt floor, wooden shacks, with an open fire in the middle of the room. The whole town was sort of overrun with Vietnamese potbellied pigs wandering free. We saw some of the 20 community wells, but the government has recently provided running water to the community -- several faucets located throughout the village and basic electricity to the homes so they each can have an electric light or two, and of course now TVs and radios. We also sat and had tea with the chief while an old woman (I think his mother) was weaving in the corner. Children were happy to pose for us (so long as we showed them the pictures we took. It's an extremely poor village, no English spoken, but we all learned to say hello in their native language.

After this we got back on the tractor pulled wagon, then the bus, and again had to cross the gulley with us getting off the bus, and soon were back on an actual paved road. We next stopped at a small silk factory, where we watched the entire operation of pulling the silk threads from the cocoons, cleaning the threads, and weaving cloth. We were also treated to the delicacy of roasted silkworm larvae -- kind of bland but nutty tasting. Lee informed us that the year they lived in Dalat as refugees it was about their only source of protein as they mainly simply lived on a diet of rice.

Next (with our appetites whetted by the yummy larvae) we had lunch at restaurant in town called V. Pork with artichoke stems soup that was really good, chicken with ginger, shrimp with various fresh vegetables, a huge bowl of real SALAD -- boy, I didn't realize that's what I'd been missing for the past few weeks and it was deliciously fresh and good, beef shishkebobs with onions and peppers, and for dessert a delicious coconut cake -- almost like a coconut pie filing.

After lunch we went to Dalat University and a teacher there discussed the Vietnamese higher education system. The University has about 28,000 students on a rather pretty campus on the hillside overlooking Dalat. Then we were each greeted by two to three students who took each of us on our tour of the campus, mainly to chat in English. I had two senior girls one who spoke very good English and one not so good (but that's because her second language in college is Korean). These tours lasted about an hour so we had lots of opportunity to talk back and forth, but they were mainly asking the questions and totally curious about things in the US -- mine had a wild curiosity about Halloween. It was fun and of course we exchanged email addresses.

Then after the University we went to another small tribal village (one that had been relocated from the forests to the edge of Dalat after the war. We sat in a big open "meeting hall" with a metal room and an open fire and a "tree of life" in the center, and a group of 5 young men and 5 young women entertained us with traditional dances and songs. They we entertained they with the Hokey Pokey, and surprisingly they seemed to know it and joined in. We also joined them in the traditional wine drinking. Couples drink from a huge jug of rice wine (tasted a lot like sherry) through about 3 foot long bamboo drinking straws.

After the ceremony, we went to dinner at Viet Ngoc Duy, with perhaps our most "unusual meal" so far. First there was a creamy green vegetable soup, then big shrimp which were coated in a green sticky rice and deep fried with a really good and spicy sauce. Next, thin slices of venison with various herbs that had been cooked inside banana leaves and which we scooped on to those crackers they serve. Next came a course of barbequed fish. And finally hot pots were put on our table on burners -- boiling broth surrounded by chicken and various vegetables accompanied with plates of cooked noodles. Put the noodles in your bowl, add the other things, top with greens, and pour the broth over. Quite spicy and delicious. And then we had flambeed bananas with coconut ice cream. And if that wasn't enough, next we had a birthday cake for the second member of our group to have a birthday on the trip (OAT provides a cake for anyone who has a birthday). It was a huge and delicious meal.

We returned to the hotel about 9. This had been a really long and very busy day -- with pretty much non-stop light rain. And our wake up call for tomorrow was -- are you ready -- 5AM -- for a bus to our plane to Saigon which leaves at 7:55. But that didn't stop some of us from enjoying a couple drinks in the hotel bar before retiring. I was happy once again to see my best friend Johnny was staying at this hotel.

NeoPatrick, I'm a fiercely indepent DIY traveller, but your report and comments could almost persuade me to take an OAT tour!

It's too late for one in Vietnam though as I've explored most of it already in the course of two very lengthy visits, concentrating on out of the way places and meeting local people, and I'll be doing another 6-week solo stint next year. However, if OAT adopts the same approach to all the countries it visits it could be something I might consider in the future.

I'm a regular on the Trip Advisor VN forum (sorry Fodorites!), where people occasionally ask about organised tours. Would it be ok with you if I directed them to this thread?

Noepatrick-(great name by the way)I took the same trip with OAT as a single May 2008. You are helping me relive the wonderful memories of that trip - different guide, same itinerary. Interestingly enough, we also had a woman trip on the uneven pavement and was injured but was painfully able to continue the tour. When you don't always have someone to travel with, the OAT is a great way to go - went to Egypt and Morocco with them as well. In a couple of weeks, I am on my way to BKK and Bali on my own. Enjoy the rest of Vietnam!!!!!

RedKite, yes, that would be fine with me.

I'm continuing to follow along with you.

Patrick, I am so enjoying following along on this trip. Thanks for sharing.

Patrick

This is one of the best trip reports - keep it coming and thanks for sharing

Pat

We spent three nights in Nha Trang (rained almost the entire time) when our scheduled resort was blown away by a storm. Since we were traveling independently we found much less to do there than OAT found for you. Another plus for tours, but we did our best to explore the area. Since there were few other Americans there several local people took photos of us when we spent time in the big supermarket. I did have the most interesting massage of my life at our hotel. I do not think many women went to that massage parlor.

Great report Patrick, we're leaving in 2 days time so it has been extremely helpful for us.

Hi Patrick,
I'm enjoying your report enormously - many thanks.

Outstand reading! Thank you for taking the time to write it. We are doing OAT Croatia in Dec. and have oftened wondered about the OAT Viet Nam trip. You now have me convinced that it is a must do! We did OAT Thailand and had a great experience too.

HO CHI MINH CITY (SAIGON):

Throughout the trip I was surprised that almost no one calls this place Ho Chi Minh City. It is just referred to as Saigon (except "officially".

It was just getting light as we headed across the street to the restaurant to the Mercure Hotel -- and they had opened early for us -- but at least it was easy to get across the street at 5:30 AM -- hardly any motorbikes -- what a relief.

The flight was only about 40 minutes and we were on the bus and touring "downtown" Saigon in no time. Clearly this is Vietnam's most "modern" and cosmopolitan city, but still has its share of slums and typical "dirty looking" small businesses. We stopped at the War Remnants Museum and we were given time to view it on our own. Lee warned us that it is run by the government so is VERY one sided, and it used to be called the War Crimes Museum, so we were prepared for the worst. He was right. While it is filled with accounts and pictures of Americans killing and torturing Viet Congs, of course there is no reference to the opposite that was going on at the same time. But surprisingly, I found no evidence of anything exaggerated or untrue. It was really quite factual to my knowledge and rather disturbing. Particularly effective were the many pictures of protests from around the world of people and governments wanting the US to get out of Vietnam (including of course many in the US itself). I tend to forget how anti US, that war made us for quite a while. And perhaps the most disturbing part were the accounts of the use of Agent Orange, complete with pictures of many aborted but badly deformed fetuses. On a brighter side, the top floor has many pictures of places in Vietnam showing "then and now" and it is really quite amazing how well the country has rebuilt since the war. And there is a large area dedicated to Peace, with some stunning artwork.

By the time we left the museum it was starting to rain. And now those of you who are totally "anti-tour" have your chance to say "I told you so". Next the bus stopped for us to visit a lacquer ware factory. This was indeed one of those much feared "kick back to the tour company shopping stops" we all love to talk about. After a couple of minutes with a couple people set up to show the basic steps in the three types of lacquer ware, we were ushered into a huge showroom with an opportunity to buy -- for 45 minutes. GRRRR! What factory? Unlike our visits to a true small family run silk factory, or seeing candy being made, or other things -- this was clearly NOT a factory, but a shopping "opportunity". At least it was our ONLY such stop of the entire 17 days -- but it was the one thing mentioned most about what we didn't like at the end of the tour. But since it was pouring rain during the stop (and I do mean POURING), and since it had nice clean restrooms, no one minded too much, and yes, a couple of people did in fact buy some items.

Next we went to the beautiful Post Office, and kind of waited out the rain for a bit. And we did some other driving in the city on the bus seeing things like the site of the former US embassy, and the Reunification Palace. Then we stopped for lunch at Pho Hung -- a true neighborhood noodle soup place. We sat on stools at two tables and all had the Pho, huge bowls of favorful beef noodle soup with platters of various greens to break up and put on top, and of course add our own amounts of chilis, soy, and hot sauce. I later said that in a way this was my favorite restaurant as it was truly one place that never felt like it was more for Americans or for tour groups. It was our best opportunity to eat like the locals. But I do know a couple of people later kind of grumbled about the place, saying "just soup for lunch". In any case, I loved it, and it was sooooo much better than the Pho we could usually get at breakfast.

We then checked into our hotel, The Chancery. It's right across from the largest park in downtown, and a short walk to the ReUnification Palace (officially called the Independence Palace now) -- which had been the offices of the South Vietnamese government during the war. Good location and it's an all suite hotel so everyone had lots of room to spread out. But most felt it was our least attractive hotel, and at night it was completely taken over with weddings so even the bar wasn't open. Saigon has some splendid 4 or 5 star hotels, but on our "budget level" tour, Lee told us they have had horrible problems with many of the hotels -- the last one they used was the Asian Ruby, but most rooms didn't even have windows, and as he said, they have fewer specific complaints about the Chancery than any other hotel they've used.

The afternoon was free. It rained off and on, but not too hard. I just did a long walk, stopping at what I thought was a super big trendy looking open bar/lounge on a corner. But when I tried to order a drink, they didn't have any cocktails. It's really a coffee lounge, that also offers light snacks and all kinds of fruit drinks and lots of coffee and tea drinks. I found there are many of these around Saigon. Trendy young people treat them as if they were nightclubs -- some even have music or other entertainment.

This evening we had dinner at the hotel -- this was our ONLY meal (other than breakfasts) in any hotel and again we all pretty much agreed that it was our worst meal. Not bad, just typical of what one might expect from having a business dinner in a hotel private meeting room. The highlight was that Lee's lovely wife joined us (they live in Saigon).

The next day was an optional tour to the Cu Chi Tunnels, used during the war and some distance out of town. Only three people opted for this tour, and the rest of us were on our own armed with several suggestions for visits. And we were even on our own for dinner --a few made plans to visit a nice French restaurant for dinner, two others spent much of the afternoon and evening at the beautiful Majestic Hotel roof top dining room and lounge on the river. Meanwhile, I had received emails from Huynh, a step brother to Tu, the guy who showed me around Hanoi. I think there was some "jealousy" in play there. Huynh wanted to show me Saigon as his brother had done in Hanoi, but when he had first emailed me I said I was with a tour and probably wouldn't have time. But when I realized we had this whole day, I decided to take advantage of the offer and said yes -- so he promised to pick me up at the hotel at 2 PM. His wife was "at the beach" with her family but would probably join us for dinner. So in the morning I took a nice long walk, toured the Reunification Palace, went through a street market mostly of food, had a nice iced coffee at one of the more famous coffee chains -- Trung Nguyen, and had lunch at an outdoor garden BarBQ place where I had squid, wild boar marinated in four spices with some wedges of eggplant and another vegetable and spicy boneless chicken to grill on my own table. With a beer it was a nice lunch -- and I liked that you could order these in small portions, so I could get a variety when I was by myself. Nice lunch for about $6 including the beer.

Huynh showed up at 2 -- a little late as they wouldn't let him park his motorbike even for a few minutes at the hotel due to a wedding party just arriving, so he had to put it in the park parking lot about two blocks away. He brought an extra helmet and off we went to see Saigon by motorbike. This is not for the faint of heart. It was a real experience and I soon learned the rules of the road. Whoever is even an inch in front of another bike has total right of way. If he wants to make a sudden turn in front of another bike, then he does so and it is the responsibility of the person just an inch or so behind to be ready to brake or turn with him so they don't run into each other. It's a major commitment to total concentration and instant reflexes, but all these Vietnamese drivers seen to possess that ability, as no one seems to run into each other. Anyway it was great fun and we rode miles in all directions, stopping for pictures or for him to tell me about places. This was the issue. Huynh was fluent in English -- or at least he thought so. He talked away in English a mile a minute, but I could only get about 20 % (well maybe sometimes half) of what he was saying. And he expained things continuously while on the motorbike which I couldn't hear or understand one word of. But it was still fun. We stopped for coffee twice. I suggested a stop for a drink on top of the Majestic, or the Rex, or the Caravelle (all famous watering holes in Saigon) but he just sort of chuckled as if I were joking. Later I found out that neither he nor his wife drink at all, and I guess he really didn't take me serious about having a drink -- and in retrospect maybe that was a good think since he was driving that motorbike.

It started to rain late in the afternoon, and we stopped at a wonderful huge coffee bar called 343 -- it's three levels of mostly open air space around a garden. There were also enclosed and AC rooms with many TVs like a sports bar and one for MTV or videos. At night there is entertainment in the center. We holed up there for about an hour and a half waiting for the rain to stop. I had amazing iced coffees that have a touch of chocolate in them. Finally we gave up and he said we'd get me a poncho (he has one for him in his motorbike. So off we went a block and bought a cheap one, then continued to ride in the rain (not too hard) going to Chinatown, where we also poked around some shops.

He called his wife several times and finally was able to get her. She was on a high speed ferry back to Saigon from the beach (I never did figure out where that was). And she was to join us for dinner at Nha Hang Ngon. I had asked Huynh about this place by email since I had read about it -- and he said we'd go for dinner there -- they love it. It's a big place in an old French Colonial mansion (I think, unless it was just built to look like that). Supposedly they hired the "best" street food vendors to come there and each open their own little kitchen in rows down the sides of the restaurant under cover. You sit at tables and order from a menu, then the waiter goes to the appropriate place to get each food item, and you pay for it on one bill. Huhyn and his wife Nguyen (their names rhyme!) ordered. We had two types of fresh spring rolls, one with shrimp and one with "pig's ear". We each had a bowl of special noodles that had lots of chopped things on them over which we poured a sort of coconut spicy soup. We also had grilled squid with peppers, and a friend noodle dish that had slices of BarBQ pork, then fruit. They each drank fruit juices and I had a beer. They wanted to pay but I insisted -- it was 312,000 dong total -- or about $16 for the three of us. Amazing food and the atmosphere in this restaurant is simply spectacular.

After dinner, Nguyen headed home on her motorbike and Huynh and I rode off to see Saigon by night. It is beautiful. Several streets have rows of draped lights, one street green, two streets in blue, some in white with gold flashing star shapes among them. There are a couple of big dragons which are completely illuminated by the market, and red "flags" of lights with the cycle and the star on them. And city hall, the opera house, and other public buildings are beautifully lit. Finally he dropped me off at my hotel about 9:30. This was a wonderful day, but I was exhausted and wet, and my legs hurt from hugging the motorbike with nervous tension.

The next day was our trip to the Mekong Delta, about 2 hours away by bus. It sounded a bit hokey (visit a bee farm, visit a coconut candy factory, ride a sanpan), but it was all quite fun. We boarded a fair sized open but covered boat and had a tour of the town -- and it's wholesale fish market and fruit market by water, then out into the River past four islands coming to a place where we got out and divided into groups of three for paddled sanpans up a beautiful little canal lined with water palms. We came to a place called a bee factory, a real small village where they do make honey and we saw the hives, putting our fingers into the masses of bees to withdraw a taste of honey from the combs. They served tea with honey and lemon and a few snacks. You could buy some honey and there was a table of handicrafts, but this really wasn't an "offensive" shopping stop. Then we walked a path through a village and a beautiful old abandoned French Colonial house, and arrived at a small coconut candy family -- a family run business and we did see how they make the candy, complete with boiling it on top of a rustic stove fired by broken coconut shells. The most modern thing here was a huge "Hobart style" mixer. Women then form and roll, cut, and then wrap the candies. Again -- we could buy them -- a couple dollars for big boxes or bags of them, but this did not seem like at exploitive shopping stop at all.

We then got back on the larger boat and went to Phoenix Island (the best restaurant on the island since it is the only one). It's a huge place that ALL tourist groups end up at -- all open air. They serve a whole deep friend elephant ear fish at each table, and a girl softens rice paper with water, then scrapes some meat off the whole fish and rolls it in the rice paper with cucumber slices and some noodles. Really good spring rolls to dip in peanut sauce. We also had some grilled tiger prawns, and then soup.

Lee cut us a little short after lunch saying we should try to get back before the rain which we could see coming in the distance. But almost as soon as we got on the boat and left the restaurant the DELUGE started. It was a blinding rain. And of course they dropped the tarps on the sides of the boat, but the wind was blowing the boat so hard due to the enclosed sides, they had to put them up. They passed out plastic ponchos. The wind was driving in the side of the boat and people tried moving to the other side, but weight had to be distributed, so some of us had to stay on the side in the blowing rain. It was actually pretty scary, but within a half hour we had made it across the very wide river and we ran into the building under cover. We were all soaked to the skin and Lee offered for us to stop at a market where OAT would buy us towels and we all agreed that was kind of pointless, so we sat wet for the return bus trip to Saigon. What an experience.

That evening after an hour or so to dry out, we had dinner at Pho Co. (The word Pho, by the way, depending on what kind of mark is above the o, can mean soup or it can mean street or in this case it means village. The name of the restaurant is Ancient Village. It's the restaurant where Bill and Hillary Clinton had dinner during their visit to Saigon. We seemed to be the only people there, but dinner was quite good, the highlight being a salad that had mounds of tempura friend morning glory mixed with other things and really delicious. There was also Lotus rice, flavored rice with lotus seeds wrapped and cooked in Lotus leaves, chicken with ginger and chilis, mixed stir fried vegetables with garlic, and ice cream for dessert. A very nice meal, then back to our hotel.

Again we had a 5:00 wake up call the next morning (I think they deliberately tried to turn us into early birds on this trip) for our flight back to Bangkok. There we were met by a representative (the same one we had before our trip). Most would be flying out the next morning really early -- like 6 AM, so they would have a 3 AM wake up call. Last night all of us (there are 9 as 3 did a post trip to Angkor Wat) ended up at Mango Tree for dinner, which was wonderful and just a block from our hotel The Tawana in Bangkok -- which I think we all agreed is the nicest hotel of our trip. I have an extra day in Bangkok, as my flight to London isn't until 12:15 AM the second night there. So that's where I am now. I'll do a late checkout at the hotel, leave my luggage and go off exploring and have a late lunch, then come back about to retrieve my luggage and head to the airport where I can hang out (or even have a shower) at the Qantas Lounge at the Bangkok airport.

And THAT'S the end of the Vietnam report.

I must say, as you can clearly guess from reading this that my 17 days in Vietnam were a real highlight of my 2 month plus stay in Asia. As I mentioned because of the tour I really did a whole lot more there than I did on my own in China or in Thailand. I'm not sure that I'm a total convert to tour travel, but it was also wonderful having a group to share the experiences with -- compared to traveling alone, that was a huge plus for me. And we were fortunate to have a very active and very well traveled group. Everyone got along fabulously -- no little spats or disagreements -- no one to hold us back -- no one who was late for buses or stragglers at stops -- and no whiners. But perhaps the best part of all was Lee, our guide. He was truly a wonderful guide. We saw him only get a little riled up with other service people when they weren't doing everything just perfect for our benefit. But he was so outgoing and pleasant and often funny, serious when he needed to be, and just a great source of information and discussion. Beginning in January, however, I think he is changing to the newer OAT Ancient Kingdoms tours, which also include some of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand.

Any questions -- fire away -- and any of the fellow travelers from our group (Evelyn, I know you are reading this) don't hesitate to correct me or offer opposing thoughts or add things I left out.

Patrick, thanks so much for your wonderfully detailed report. You have really given an alternate point of view here. You know I'm not a person to take tours, but I have no doubt that this was the right decision for you for this portion of the trip.

Your whole trip report makes for great reading as you did lots of independent travel plus a tour so we can see what you did in both cases. I must say I'm most impressed in how you utilized your contacts in various places to give you a sample of local life. You had to opportunity to see and do many things most visitors never see or do.

Bravo!

Regarding personal contacts -- it was a growing thing. Like the guy in Saigon who contacted me by email I think because he was sort of jealous of his step brother "bragging" about showing an American around Hanoi. He kept saying, "am I as good a tour guide as my brother?" And even his brother in Hanoi was a result of his friend whom I met in Shanghai. I found Asians so proud and friendly and anxious to show an American their country or city. But the number of personal contacts as well as home and village visits with locals that were arranged by OAT were unique and wonderful too. While I'm the type who doesn't hold back from meeting or talking with a local on a bus or train, I would never have had the opportunity for such complete discussions, meetings, and even touring homes and local businesses as I had on this OAT tour.

Kathy, you are right about it being right for "me". While I've done tons of independent travel, since losing my partner traveling alone just hasn't been quite the same as sharing travel with someone. It is particularly ironic that our guide's name was Lee -- the same as my partner -- and as I told him, it was a great comfort to be traveling with "Lee" once again. Will I do another tour? Well next on my bucket list in particular are Macho Piccu and the Galapagos, and yes, I'm definitely thinking I'll do those with OAT, along with an upper Amazon add-on. And they are high on my list for doing an African safari.

There is no doubt that OAT is not a glamorous tour company. You don't expect four or five star hotels, the meals will not be in fancy restaurants for the most part, and you won't be in the biggest, most modern bus on the road. If those things are important in your tour, then OAT is really not the company for you. I was a little surprised last night at a couple of our group talking about they wish the food had been a lot better, but ironically a couple of them kind of felt their western meals they did on their own in expensive restaurants on our days off were their favorites. I'm just not into that, and totally enjoyed the much more local foods, even if they may have seemed similar day after day. As I mentioned above, if you eat local food for 17 days a couple times a day, there are only so many choices and the meals are going to seem redundant.

I think whether or not people get tired of the food on a tour depends on whether or not they like/love that type of cuisine to begin with. On tour, I ate Chinese and Thai food for 18 and 14 days in a row and did not tire of it because I really enjoy that type of cuisine. However, on my India tour , 4 days in a row of eating Indian food was too much for me, and I was looking for western restaurants for the rest of the tour.

Patrick-What feedback did you get about the Cu Chi tunnel tour from the people who went? I can't decide whether to go, or spend the day seeing more of Saigon.

Based on your trip report, I am leaning toward taking the OAT tour. If I do, I hope I have as good a time as you seemed to have had. Thanks so much for posting.

Patrick...

Thank you for the great trip report. I have noted several of the restaurants you mentioned and will be adding them to my list of choices for when I'm in Vietnam.

NeoPatrick, you have given a superb account of this tour, and I'm grateful for it. I realize how much more a solo traveller can take advantage of incidental contacts and opportunities than a couple could do. I think you have spoken well to the food issues that were raised elsewhere, and, like you, we would have no problem with the allegedly repetitive Asian diet and menus.
I was still hoping that OAT might reinstate their tour for 8 March, but it seems to be gone for good. With a two-week hiatus between their 27 Feb and 13 March tours, we won't be able to go with them. I'm going to look for an agent in Vietnam who can replicate much of what OAT does. (Any suggestions, anyone?)
Others should be aware of the changing OAT price structure. The March tours have dropped another $200 in price, to $1695 without airfare. So, the time-limited "special" offer that expired 30 Sept has been replaced by an even "specialer" offer that now runs until 30 Nov. Sounds like airfares, doesn't it? You have to chose the right purchasing window.
Again, many thanks for such a thorough and informative trip report.
Will

An afterthought, your mention of OAT previously using the Asian Ruby hotel in Saigon, where "most rooms didn't even have windows," is a possible source of complaints, still on other travel boards, about their hotel choices. An experience of that kind of accommodation would pretty well sour a tour for most travellers. (Let's hope the OAT price drop doesn't signal a return to those standards.)

I checked the last 5 reviews of Asian Ruby Hotel on trip advisor. People were generally satisfied with this basic 3 star hotel. It is #33 of 285 hotels in HMC. No one mentioned no windows in the rooms. On tour or on my own, I would not accept a room with no windows and it is hard to believe that a tour company would accept such either..

Exactly, shelleyk, OAT wouldn't accept rooms with no windows. That's why they no longer use it. It should also be noted that there are three Asian Rubys, including a 2 and a 3, like annexes, and they would apparently not guarantee which Asian Ruby they'd put groups in. I had looked at TripAdvisor too, when I thought that was where we'd be staying -- and I too saw mainly favorable reviews, but no mention of staying in one of the annexes either. Lee told us that they've had a consistent problem with hotels in Saigon, and they've tried many of them.

Regarding the CuChi tunnels, the tree who went enjoyed it, but one of them didn't go down into the tunnels themselves, I think just a couple of the bigger rooms. They did mention the bats down there, however, which seemed to be a slight issue, but at least that meant no mosquitos! In any case you don't have to choose the optional tours until the day before they take place and you may get some feedback. Actually one of the other couples on our trip had previously done the tunnels and they did not think they were "worth it", which I think helped to encourage some of us to skip them.

I have really enjoyed your report, Patrick! I've actually enjoyed all of your Asia reports. It is fun reading your impressions of places I've been and hearing about places that I want to go. Your trip sounds like it has been a great success! Have a safe journey to London, if you aren't there already!

I'm going to follow in your footsteps - especially seeking out those restaurants you specifically recommended (and avoiding those you specifically "un"recommended ). Great report.

I have done the tunnels and both myself and BF thought it was well worth the visit. we did a half day tour with comeangovietnam.com and then did a city tour in the afternoon with them. It really does give you a sense of just how ingenious the Vietnamese are AND some interesting history (like the fact the tunnels were actually built to defeat the French)
Patrick i have been to the restuarant you mentioned in HCMC although may i politely correct you (if its the one on Pasteur street) its called Quan an ngon. I was addicted to the chilli beef!!! we went a couple of times and wished we had gone to the one in Hanoi.

Looking to yor take on London, welcome to a rainy UK (although it is supposed to be sunny this weekend)

Great trip report Patrick. I felt like I was on the road in Vietnam with you.

Wonderful report -- thanks!

Smeagol, I'm afraid the name changed -- sort of. I too was asking about Quan an ngon, but found that it is now called nah hang ngon (spelled with no caps) and I have a picture of me standing under the sign spelled that way as well as a business card. Apparently both "Quan an" and "nah hang" mean restaurant, so the name didn't exactly change. And it used to be on another street one block away. When walking I came across Quan Nuong and thought I had found Quan an ngon at first. So perhaps they changed the name to avoid similar confusion?

When I told Lee how great the food was and it should be on his list he hands out, he mentioned that the sister restaurant in Hanoi is on the list, but he hadn't included it in Saigon for some reason. He agrees it's a great place.

By the way, London was bright and sunny yesterday and I welcome the 60 or so degree temperatures after two solid months of heat.

Ahh thanks for clarifying that NP, anyway great place and lovely food!

will you be doing a trip report on London?

I traveled with Patrick on the OAT trip and started with the same trepidations - a 'tour bus' and all, however found the trip to be excellent! (and would recommend it - without any kickback from Oat)
To go back to the 1st Optional Tour to the Tho Ha Countryside that Patrick missed due to his sojourn with a friend in Hanoi - wonderful day with a couple of unscheduled stops. We stopped in a small town to hear about and our group leader purchased for us the "New Moon Cake" which is traditional for festivities (often spontaneous) for children and families during the New Moon which was occurring for the next 2 nights. We also browsed a side street market which was a bit disturbing when we noticed butchered dog for sale. Then off to our travels again when we stopped once more to spontaneously visit a home of a middle class couple who make tiles and do pig farming. We were graciously shown through the home, served tea, and given a complimentary tile to take with us. Our group leader had apparently befriended this couple during a prior tour when one of the group had to use a bathroom and they stopped and asked this family for bathroom privileges. (It's a friendly country!!) We traveled on and reached the spot where the bus parked on the side of the road and we walked along side of a rice paddy, down an embankment, to await a ferry to transport us to the small village across the river - along side many of the locals of the village. After meandering the small unpaved streets and market, we were shown into a courtyard of a family where 3 generations share the space. Several of us had a try at making rice paper after watching the rather adept wife make many. It was not easy and required quite a lot of eye,hand and foot coordination to successfully produce something that came near to looking like the round rice paper of our spring rolls - the equipment was very old and traditional and definitely not mass produced. We were treated to a sojourn in the home of this family with rice wine - a sake if you will - and songs and music from father and son. This gentleman had fought with the North Vietnamese army and our Vietnamese veteran and he had a toast and handshake that was heartwarming to witness. The children of the village followed us around - allowed us to take their pictures and it was a delightful day with a lunch of more traditional Vietnamese fair and back to our hotel for the rest of the day on our own. I can't quibble with any of Patrick's report and am grateful that he chronicled it so well, since the days were full and by evening time, I was to tired to journal on my own.
I would just like to add that I did go to the Cu Chi Tunnels and found the experience to be quite amazing. I did go down to the second level of the tunnels - sliding on my behind as we had to do - but did not attempt the 3rd level which means sliding on one's stomach. Still in all the time was very well worth it and I would recommend it. Although I do recognize that not all would be able to physically enter and traverse the tunnels for a variety of reasons. But it is such an education and being of the era of the Vietnam War - adds to my knowledge base. We were treated to tapioca root to eat dipped in a sugar, cinnamon and not sure what else mixture that was surprisingly refreshing. (And having encountered a bat in the tunnel, didn't freak out as I thought I might!!) Our final treat was iced sugar cane drink - purchased by our trip leader - not too sweet - just perfect!! Oh, but wait, lunch was included and it was back in Saigon at L'Etoile - THE ABSOLUTELY - HANDS DOWN - BEST MEAL of the entire trip - to die for perfectly cooked fish with two sauces - AMAZING!!!!!

Thanks Patrick for your well documented travelogue!! Evelyn

Hey, Evelyn, I never heard about that last meal on the Cu Chi Tunnel day!
Good to hear from you.

Hi Patrick and Evelyn-Based on your reports I have decided to follow in your footsteps with OAT. I would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions-

1-I noticed in your report that fresh, uncooked vegtables were served and eaten. Did you or anyone on your trip experince stomach problems?

2-Were there any included restaurants for dinner that you would recommend avoiding. I do not mind paying for dinner on my own, even if the meal is included. (I love Asian food, so the food being boring is not a reason for me to change restaurants). I usually do not eat lunch, so the luncheon stops are not a concern to me.

3-Did you take malaria meds for the short times you were in the Mekong Delta and Cu Chi area. From my reading of the CDC website, these are the only areas visited where there is a threat of malaria.

4-Any other tips for me to make enhance this trip?

Thanks.

1) I am unaware of anyone having any major stomach or intestinal problems on the trip. Our guide had originally told us things like to avoid ice when you went to a restaurant, but added that it was fine wherever we were being taken as the restaurants are chosen and carefully inspected to be "safe".

2) The only really disappointing meal for me was the group dinner at the hotel in Saigon, but if we had missed that we would have missed meeting Lee's lovely wife who joined us for that meal. One semi-complaint from some was that our lunches were about as big as dinner -- "too much food" was often heard.

3) I took Malarone but more because of going to Cambodia and Laos just before Vietnam. I had some "sick to my stomach" problems and a dry cough that I'm 99% sure where from that, but it all went away. On the other hand, I literally never a mosquito on my whole trip. I know that a number of people on the tour did not take any anti-malaria pills -- some because they have in the past and they made them sick and they just felt it wasn't necessary for this trip.

4) Just go and enjoy.

Thanks, Patrick I was at the Boston GTG on Saturday. Bob asked me where I was going on my next trip. I told him that I thought I was going to take "Patrick's trip". He instantly understood it was to Vietnam. I think we have all enjoyed following your trip report, even those non tour guys, like Bob. Thanks so much for posting.

NeoPatrick:

Excellent read - thank you so much.

Sandy

ttt

Shelleyk,

I thought I might take doxycycline as an anti malarial since it could also protect against some other infections (such as traveler's diarrhea) and it was the most affordable - however I only took it a couple of times and never did continue the entire regimen (and I'm an RN)and I didn't worry about it either. It never seemed necessary and I had it along more as a 'just in case' type of antibiotic. I also was not aware of anyone getting any severe GI issues. We were guided well by our trip leader and those whose constitutions might be more susceptible, really did have choices of what we were offered - either at regular meals and with any of the extra 'treats and samples' we were offered on the spontaneous moments.
Hope you decide to go and enjoy!!

Fabulous trip report, Neo!

thanks for this fabulous review and story....one of the best in a long line of good reports

Are you home yet Patrick? I seldom come to the Asia Board, but I remembered you were traveling there and have been following you from the beginning. It's been a fabulous trip.

Yes. I returned to Naples, Florida on Wed. of this week after a wonderful week in London to complete my "round the world".

Welcome back to Florida. We are on the East coast in Boca. Thanks for your great review. I've tried convincing my husband for years that tours have definite benefits in some respects and you certainly sound like you did much more on the tour than you would have done on your own. Glad to hear you had such fun.

Smashing report! Many thanks!

This has been a wonderful read. I do agree that as a solo traveler, I frequently don't do or see as much as I would have if on a tour. You have made me re-think that maybe I could consider a tour at some point.
Thank you for taking the time.

neo....we need you to attend the boston GTG next october...

neo did attend the Hawaii GTG last year, its where we first heard of this amazing trip in its infancy stage

Patrick, glad to see you made it home safe and sound. Thanks again for taking the time to write this wonderful series of reports, just amazing. So where does one go next after you've been around the world? Any plans??????

Aloha!

Any plans? Well not specifically.

Buenos Aires, Santiago, Rio
The Amazon
Machu Picchu and the Galapagos
African Safari
Capetown and Johannesburg
Russia
Many returns to Europe (still my favorite)
Boston in October (LOL)

I'm so happy that your OAT trip was a success. I recall reading your earlier posts and that you were worried about the Vietnam trip being canceled.

The report is wonderful -- good writing with just enough detail (makes me hungry). I agree with you about having experiences with OAT that you wouldn't have on your own. (I can't imagine an independent traveler stir frying in a Vietnamese family's kitchen.)

I've done a lot of independent travel and taken a couple of OAT tours and found that the items on the itinerary that I had little interest in turned out to be great fun. Like you, I enjoy traveling and dining with others, but also like being able to get away and explore on my own. I'm not an early riser but it doesn't bother me on the trips since I know there's a day of discovery ahead.

The OAT web site Oattravel.com now has a "Travelers Discussions" section. Lots and lots under the Africa forum. I've been reading about the Ultimate Africa trip and it looks darn good. There are also traveler's reviews posted under individual trips.

Thanks for taking the time to write the comprehensive report. Since you're interested in South America, have you looked at the Wilderness Beyond trip?

Luisah, funny you mention it. I'm looking at the ultimate Africa trip too. Perhaps in June or July.

Actually the Wilderness Beyond Trip isn't high on my list, not sure why. Just other things calling to me first.

That is funny. There are lots of questions and answers on that trip in the "Travelers Discussions." I've read all the reviews on the OAT web site. It sounds fascinating and I hadn't had much interest in Africa before. One thing that appeals to me is that it is adventurous but not strenuous. I slept in tents a couple of nights on the OAT Morocco trip and loved eating and drinking wine under the stars -- nothing like home.

Most people loved the trip except for the long flights. However, I checked Delta and there is a non-stop flight from Atlanta to JNB -- 15 hours but better than 20 plus on BA. I entered dates that I would consider (Sept because I hate being cold and it should start warming up by then) and with the $1200 credit for booking your own flights, it would only cost a couple of hundred more and the trip insurance would be about $100 less. I travel from a regional airport in Florida and I'd be able to get home after the Atlanta flight so the extra money would be worth it to me.

I just finished reading Peter Allison's book, "Whatever You Do, Don't Run" and I'm even more excited. Allison is an Australian who traveled to Africa and got a job as a guide in a safari camp in Botswana. His adventures with the animals and the "guests" are interesting and sometimes hilarious.

It's the ship through the glaciers and to Cape Horn that appeals to me on the Wilderness trip, but Africa appeals more.

I loved reading your Vietnam report. A friend has wanted to make that trip but I was put off by the number of flights but your report cleared that up. I'd love the experience on Halong Bay, so my list is growing.

Thank you so much for this fabulous report. I live up the road from Naples, and am leaving on Dec 15 for the OAT Vietnam trip. You have just increased my enthusiam enormously!!----even tho I have been to Thailand and Angkor, I will do those add-ons----since my traveling friend has not been there. She and I booked this trip partly because we could get single accomodations with no supplement.Plus, of course, Vietnam was on both of our travel lists....

I felt like I wanted to print out your travelogue---but perhaps my Lonely Planet and Rough Guide travel books will fill the bill. The ink and paper stopped me from printing.

I have several friends who have done the OAT ultimate Africa trip with outstanding reports. I have lived there for 5 yrs, and returned many times independantly....If I were to do a tour, i would go with OAT----or on the Shongololo train...
thank-you again....pat (up the road).....

Bookmark. Great trip!

Bringing this to the top to thank you for your report, Neopatrick. Like you, we have never done a group tour, but friends were taking this exact trip in 2012, and having planned too many trips by myself lately, I thought it might be nice to be dragged around by someone else for a change. I had some misgivings upon signing up, but your report has made me feel confident that it will be a good time! Thanks for your refreshing and entertaining tales.

neo---where are you.. certainly you are still travelling