Mileage Debate: Bali vs. Japan

I don't know the ins and out of booking with Continental miles, but I had difficulties booking with my United miles this year. Unlike other years, they did not release seats for purchase and seats for upgrades at the same time. So I spent lots of time on the phone and on the web before I finally got our tickets. We had to shorten our trip by a few days to get it. I was surprised at how slowly they released their biz upgrades, given the state of the economy. But what the airlines do doesn't always (ever?) make sense.

You might post your question on the airlines board, as there will be many there who do know the ins and out of booking with C miles. They may be able to give you ideas or suggestions you haven't thought of.

Good luck!

Japan would be a wonderful - but very different trip. It's still on our list.

why not just go in coach?? you've done it before....remember the days before certain people were "known" in hollywood and beyond...

or take the bkk and fly to bali or elsewhere on a continuing flight on air asia or thai air---remember them your great friends from last year..

Just to make the decision even harder, Continental will switch from Skyteam to Star alliance in late October. They are waiting for gov't approval, but seem to think it will happen in October.

I think this is going to give them a lot better coverage in the pacific region.

I do love Japan though, and love it in April & May. Cherry blossoms are most normally in early April though, not May. You might be able to see some later if you head up north or if it's a really cold winter, but May is really pushing it.

Easy to travel there, easy to plan trips. Just copy one of Hawaiiantravelers itineraries!

"but my friends who have been to Japan tell me that I'd experience much of the same there.'

Don't listen to those friends - its an apples and oranges situation. Sounds like you REALLY want to go to Indonesia.

It really sounds like you want Bali and I know how long you've wanted to go there.
I say give yourself a month of frequent calling to see if Business class tickets open up. Then, if you can't get them, book them in coach as Bob suggests. Yes, travel will be painful, but the journey is worth the destination.

I wonder if you can book the tickets in coach, and then keep calling and if business class opens up, use the remaining miles to get those seats instead?

Will, I assume you are trying to get tickets to Bali on Korean Airlines which has very good connections via Seoul from LAX. Compared to what we went through to get to Bali from the east coast, this is a cake walk. I was wondering if it would make sense and if you checked on flights to Jakarta? Those connections on Korean look good as well.

If the Star Alliance deal goes through, your choices will be Singapore or Thai to Bali but I don't think I'd wait til October to see if it happens...

Good luck what ever you end up doing.

Will if you are going to Japan then stop by Kyoto and stay in one of the top ryokan(splurge for a night). Wonderful experience!

I've been to both Bali (1 visit, Ubud area) and Japan (multiple visits), and they have 1 thing in common: they are islands. Everything else is diffenert, monumentally so.

Bali is a developing (and in some cases happy-to-not-be-developing) land, where the people are incredibly artistic and expressionistic. Art is an intrinsic element of Balinese culture, moreso than any culture I can think of, and it seems that everyone is an accomplished wood-carver or gamelan player or dancer or fabric maker. The infrastructure is rough, and the food is fiery. I suspect that much of this description does not apply to the most heavily tourist-centric beaches, about which I have no 1st-hand info.

Japan is very nearly a polar opposite. Its people do not generally betray their feelings in public, and art takes on a much subtler form: architecture that blends seamlessly into either nature or cityscape, food that is not only fresh and delicious, but whose presentation may be evocative of Nature. Japan is a marvel of harmonious contrasts, where cities are both madcap and perfectly functioning, and the country retreats offer an opportunity to get away not only from the city, but seemingly from the entire planet.

As for scoring FF tickets, aha, that is a lovely black art.

>>> As for scoring FF tickets, aha, that is a lovely black art. ,,,,

Truer words were never written!

I'm guessing that the friends meant both destinations can provide magical and otherworldly experiences, and I completely agree.

Are you limited to LAX? Korean flies from a number of US gateways. Find what airports Continental and SkyTeam serves in the greater Los Angeles area. One route could be Long Beach to any other Korean US gateways such as Dallas, Seattle and YVR.

Also, keep calling till you find the person on the other end that is willing to work with you. My experience has been off hours and weekends.

Good luck

the issue isn't the korea to bali part--it's the lax to korea part. ...and yes, i've tried other options. it's the same issue with the jfk to korea part or the dc to korea part. they are just not opening up reward seats early like they used to. gotta love the airline industry. i think i'll be switching to a cash back card next year--i've finally accepted that mileage cards really are almost worthless (as are the miles you accrue.)

rizzuto, that was a helluva pitch for Japan, though, I gotta tell you

i think i'll try for a bit more and Japan is definitely the backup.

thanks, everyone, for your advice. i'll keep you posted on the unfolding saga.

Hi Bill, I know how much you guys want Indonesia so I won't try to talk Japan into you.......yet

Don't give up hope! STAY THE COURSE.

In today's screwball ff awards tix game the airlines will withhold more of the premium seats in an attempt to get maximum money out of the seat vis a vis, the airlines have found out that they can sell premium seats at a discount for cash as a last minute paid upgrade, offer last minute discounted business tickets , etc. The airlines usually release the upgrade requests just days before your flight according to your status and your date of requests. So booking now and waiting for the upgrade on the LA to NRT part looks like your best bet for now if you want to get to Bali in award business class.

And if one day in the future you guys are ever interested in seeing Japan in May I think I may have an idea or two that will get you into some hot water.....

Aloha!

should have read on the LAX to ICN part.....

Can you book coach using FF miles and then rebook to business class when the seats open up? Similarly, is it possible to book business class one way and coach on the other or business class on most legs with a coach leg thrown in? Just some random thoughts.

should clarify, HT. we're using miles outright for purchase in biz--no upgrades.

Andy, thought of that one and, nope...not unless we want to pay a "redeposit" fee for miles to go back into our account and then rebook in business. Man, they really find any way they can to suck the lifeblood out of a dollar at the airlines now, don't they?

...and as far as the coach/biz combo, I can't book ANY biz legs--all of them (on all carrier partners) only have 1 biz seat. My DH may not speak to me if I book myself in biz and stick him in coach...although you might agree that is good penitence for liking North Carolina basketball.

What I meant to say was to get the business award tickets for both ways now. I know there is only one ticket on the LAX/ICN-ICN/LAX routes so snag that one now, then work like hell to get the other one upgraded later. They will owe you one as you have a business fare and you will be in line for the business seats that they don't "sell". If all else fails you can get the miles back, no? Is there a penalty with Skymiles?

If you want Bali bad enough, a free International economy ticket on one leg is a small price to pay, just drink your way through it, always works for me

Aloha!

Oooops, didn't see your answer to the Panda. Well, the drinking part always works,lol Good luck!

FW-we're counting on getting together with you in Bali in May. Check on the rebooking idea. HT's idea to scoop up the one business class ticket now and await developments may make some sense if there's some flexibility.

I think the airlines ARE limiting award seats and I just don't know why.
Our flight LAX to Tokyo was at least 1/3 empty in Business and 1st only was about 40% full. Yet my tickets were almost impossible to get 330 days out (on AA).
Good luck Bill, keep us posted.

May, after the first week, is a great time to visit Japan. You could wait until your CO miles are in Star Alliance. Better check on what the mileage requirements would be, though.

I agree, stay the course. From my chat with you at the LA GTG, I sense your heart and soul are calling Bali. Crosscheck told me that if you book one business class ticket (with its own separate confirmation number) and book one economy seat on the same route with a different confirmation number/code, your chances of getting the second BC seat are pretty good. I'm presently trying to rebook using all miles on Delta for France and they won't allow me to book one seat in BC because my husband and I are on the same itinerary, never again.

Some segments of our Bali BC ff tickets on Thai (thru United) didn't clear until days before, some at the airport, some in the ff lounge. In the end we had BC all the way and traveled May 22-June 15, 2009. Only the LAX to BKK segment was nearly fully booked; the other legs (BKK to Jakarta and Bali-BKK-LAX) had plenty of empty seats. It also seems to me that Asians book their ff seats in BC a year in advance, just in case they want to go and then cancel weeks or days before the flight.

Filmwill, You know I'm partial to Bali, but I've really enjoyed the time I've spent in Japan as well and I would agree that you could find a fair amount of "otherworldliness" there (or what we in Indonesia like to refer to as weird and wonderful).

I would consider, however, aside from the difficulties of getting there without breaking the bank, once you're on the ground Japan is likely to be considerably more costly than Bali. There are ways to live cheap in Japan and certainly ways to spend a bundle in Bali, but value to value, satay to sushi, Japan is a lot pricier.

Okay. Here's where things get crazier. So I've tried various other combos of coach/business with still no luck. And that flight to Japan--gone!

There is a silver lining though. And here's where I need some advice again.

I'm holding 2 biz class seats on Virgin (via London) to Delhi and am thinking we might be able to finally make our India trip happen in May.

The tricky part is I don't know much about the weather in May nor the feasibility of planning a 2 week trip (we'd have 13-14 days on the ground) in/around Delhi.

In a nutshell, is this a crazy idea? Bali is definitely the first choice, but India is on our Top 3 of to-sees and it's for less mileage than Bali would be.

hoping my good friend The Dog will chime in on his thoughts on a 14 day itinerary in India.

Are you talking late or early May? It will be hot and humid in early May, hotter and more humid in late May, unless you get lucky and there is some pre-monsoon rain.

Last year, I was there May 8-25; this year it was May 24-June 13. Temps last year were in the mid-90s and above. this year, we were hitting 108-110 in the south, and 90-105 in the north. We did get some rain in Delhi and it was actually pleasant. Becasue of the heat, It is a low travel season, so prices and availability are both excellent. the Oberoi hotels have some great multi-hotel specials at that time of year.

I haven't done a trip report for either trip (yet), but I will tell you that if you go, I have the BEST driver to recommend to you. Bob K used his cousin too.

In two weeks, I'd drive the golden triangle (Agra-Jaipur-Delhi), plus fly to one other city. I really like Varanasi and Udaipur, but they will definitely be hot. Might be better to up into the Himalayas to Shimla or Dharamsala, where the temps will be in the upper 80s.

India travel is a lot more work than SE ASia, but it is very rewarding.

lucy, i would love to pick your brain more...i'll send you a separate email.

and, yes, it's mid to late may--i figured it'd be hotter than hell. but as long as there's lots of water and AC in the hotels, I think we could be game.

"India travel is a lot more works than SE Asia, but it is very rewarding."

you know i like a good challenge! if we did decide to do this, it would give me a hell of a project to plan out over the next couple of months.

Just understand Will that all the sites in the Golden Triangle are outdoors and this would be more than a challenging "vacation" for you. India is fantastic but after having been there at a pleasant time of year, I would not ever consider a first time trip during late May with all of the other hassles you might encounter. From what I've read from your previous trips, you and dh would not be happy doing this. If you had more than 13-14 days, I would feel differently.

Craig, is it THAT bad? I ask because this is actually a really good deal, miles-wise.

I'm curious as to what you mean by 'hassles' that we would encounter...

So you don't think that it could be done in 2 weeks? How would things change with, say, 3 weeks? I'm just trying to get a feel for your recommendation, because it seems strongly against when lucy's seemed pro. I know everyone has a different take on things, but could you elaborate?

Will, its hard to explain but India is another planet not just another subcontinent or another country. I think India is spectacular, been to the north twice and the south once, BUT always in December when the temperature is like Southern California in early July or early October ( mid 80's). In my experience, travel in India requires near constant vigilance; nothing can be taken for granted. Everything takes much longer than anticipated. To drive the golden triangle in the heat, furgetit. I know how tempting the miles deal is but check the cost of domestic flights, the total air package might not be such a bargain I'm afraid. Hang in there, something will come together.

"travel in India requires near constant vigilance"

Will, Robbies comment above says it all...

13-14 days and an Agra, Delhi, Jaipur and one other place (flying) itinerary leaves little "chill" time IMO. In 2005 we did Agra, Jaipur, Ranthambore Park and Delhi in 12 days and we were always on the go. Here's a link to my report:

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia/craig-jeanes-full-trip-report---agra-jaipur-ranthambore-and-delhi.cfm

Did I see India in the title of this thread? More deceptive advertising. One thing you might try is calling a second and third time to the carriers. I've gotten different answers from different operators over the years.

UPDATE: so it looks like we're going to book our tickets to Bali, 1 in coach/1 in business...and hope and pray that another seat opens up, so we don't end up flying in two different classes--from which I'd probably have to deal with a subsequent divorce (Andy, you available for consult should that happen?)

I feel good about the chances of something opening up in the next 9 months or so...it's a lot of time for something to come up.

If not, no biggie--miles go back, and we figure out a Plan B.

Thanks again to all my friends for your recommendations and advice--glad we stayed the course. Check back with me in 9 months and see if I still feel that way, though.

Good luck!

Ditto the luck! It(the luck) may have just run out though as you have now committed to an adventure with rhkkmk and the panda.......on second thought it's still not too late for planning for Japan

Aloha!

Yippee! FW and David in Bali with Bob and Andy. Was steerage not available? If you do have to go business/ coach, you can split up the legs, to share the luxury/suffering. Of course, justice suggests that the NC fan ride in coach the entire time.

Congrats on getting something for Bali! Are you really going to be in the same place as Bob and Andy on the same dates? Heaven help us all. Or rather, heaven help the Balinese.

Glad you're sticking with Bali. We'll keep our fingers crossed.

Way to go, Will!

good choice, as we need someone to pick up the tabs

thanks, guys. now on to the PLANNING!

Fingers crossed for you Bill, Eva air (my favourite biz carrier to BKK from the UK) has just release AMAZING deals to bkk in November such a shame i spent 100,000 virgin miles and ££££ getting upper classs seats to HKG!!! (but i have never flown Upper which i hear is a treat) sometimes it doesn't pay to be too early!

Smeagol-just pay the change fee for the Virgin flights, move that trip to the spring and join Bob and me in BKK in November. I'll bring the ring that binds them all.

Not sure how much its going to costs me though (at least 25k miles i would guess) one tix was reward 1 was discounted and i think non refundable (although i will be visiting my friend in spring in HKG so that could work!!) mmmm i need to check this out.

nik---see you in ubud!!

Hey I see you are having doubts about where you want to go. I am Australian and I have been to both countries and I would pick Japan hands down. Bali is fine if you want the typical Asian hassles of people trying to sell you everything from time shares to cheap DVD's. The beaches are nice but again hassles by locals. A westerners haven they are everywhere. Cultural experience NOT!. Good for 1 Week to chill out in a nice resort!! and now we always worry about bombings too!! Especially with the latest in Jakarta July 17 09! Now Japan Culture,Culture,Culture!! We purchased a train pass before we went to Japan (Can only purchase outside Japan)We saw so much. It has wonderful places to see and do. You really do feel like you have left the west behind. The older people are so helpful if they see you looking lost. They will come up and try and speak english to help you. Kyota was my favorite place but you will love it all. There is so much to see and do in every place and all the places are only hours away from each other by train. Tips: Do your homework and work out an itinerary before you go. Eat in the underground train stations at cheap eateries and in the basements of big Dept Stores. They all have yummy foods wonderful and cheap. Sleep at a Ryokan fantastic experience there are cheap ones if you look on the web. See a Summo Museum in Tokyo will see guys practicing so cool. Good Cheap accommodation is at the Business hotels but you have to book weeks ahead before you go as they are very popular and they include breakfast. Good traveling!!!

"Kyota" is that Australian for "Kyoto"?

ginny, where do you hang out in Bali? No culture? It must be Kuta or Nusa Dua. Anyway, if you've read the full post, you'll see that Filmwill has no doubts as to where he want to go, he was only having trouble with booking free tickets. He and David are now booked to Bali.

After all this, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings (well, not so bad at the end of the day)...but we'll be pushing our trip to Bali off a bit.

Some of you may know that David's dad has been quite ill. Luckily things are looking up now...but he has a pretty lengthy recovery ahead of him. As a way to help cheer him up, we came up with the idea of a taking his family on a trip to Paris (his Mom and Grandmother are both French)...

So we've already switched our tickets (we were luckily able to confirm both of us in biz) to Europe for May of next year.

That said, Bali will be pushed most likely to December of 2010, if we can manage it financially. A few folks have mentioned it may not be the best time to go, but it's the ONLY other time we can go. I'm pretty convinced that being in Bali is amazing bar-none, so I don't really care if it rains (even torentially) here and there. We actually used to go to Kauai a bunch in Novembers and it was always rainy then, but that's part of what makes the experience a bit more real for us (far more lush in November than any other time I've been there.) I guess we'll cross that bridge when it gets closer.

I will start posting my inquiries for our upcoming trip over on the Europe board (yikes! I've spent 3 years straight on this board only so the idea of posting elsewhere is strange.) We're flying into Barecelona for a week on our own (possibly Barcelona and Morocco) then heading up to meet his family for a week in Paris together.

It's exciting to mix things up a bit and go somewhere different, but I'm still having a hard time getting used to the idea of planning something outside Asia. In the little research I've done so far, I keep looking for the kinds of places we like to stay in Asia trips and find myself scratching my head and wondering why every hotel looks like my grandmother's house. Oh well, I'll get used to it.

Sorry to hear your plans for Bali have to be postponed, but at least now you can do Paris AND Bali! And what a nice thing to do with his family.

BTW, does this mean next year's LA GTG will take place in places like Cobras & Matadors or Taix?

Sorry you have to postpone Bali, but I'm glad you are getting an extended family trip to Paris.

Bali and Lombok are nice in December - I, too don't worry about the rain there.

By best wished to Davids father for a good recovery.

Ahhh, Paris! Good any time of year. While the people on the Europe board aren't like they are here, they are still a good group.
I've been to Paris a couple of times in the last few years (Oct 08 and 06). Check my website if you're interested in my trip reports. We should get together and talk Paris (and Vietnam!) before you go.
Oh yeah, and Barcelona is a great food city too! Lucky you!

But FW, Paris is SO amazing and May is a great time to go. I havent been for a year or so but Muffin and i used to go every year for his birthday in August.
I just bought the Luxe guide to Paris for a friend and it's as good as the Asia ones. Enjoy the planning and just think, you have the lovely dilemma of having Bali to plan for later in the year......
Great news about Davids father.

Sorry film: I was looking the other way and missed your cry for help way, way back there. Very remiss of me - next time, eh?

Hi filmwill,
I've been following you on this thread,,,just have been behind the scene. As you know we are also looking at going to Bali, perhaps Feb 2010. Don't know if that's a good time weatherwise either.

But as far as your choice of Paris...well, let's just say it's our favorite city...we have been there atleast 8 times in the last few years. You really can't go wrong there...and with the state of the economy, you might find some decent deals too. Which part of the city do you stay in Paris, usually?

Great news about David's father.

I've only been to Paris 30 or 35 times. I'll admit that at this point I enjoy places in France outside Paris more than the capital itself (Annecy last year, headed somewhere in Alsace or the Vosges in March).

My favorite part of the city is all of them. Great city to walk and explore, with only the vaguest of destinations in mind. Best city in the world for people watching (ok, tied with a few, mostly in Italy.)

Neighborhoods where people live are much more interesting than sections like the Champs-Elysées and Opéra. There's a nice hotel on the pedestrian street Rue Montorgueil, a couple of steps away from Les Halles, the Pompidou, the Marais, and the Horel de Ville. The hotel is overpriced, but still not a bad spot. The best item to eat in the entire world, bar none, is a sorbet from Berthillon on the Ile-St-Louis. You could finish your framboise-et-citron vert cone and get run over by a truck, and, Piaf-like, you would have no regrets. BTW, Piaf's old neighborhood near Père Lachaise has become a not so bad place to hang out. All Paris hotel rooms are minuscule; a very good way around that is to stay at one of the Citadines apart-hotels throughout the city. Everyone thinks that to get from one part of the city to another you need to take the metro; take the bus, instead. It's slower, but 1000 times more pleasant.

Paris is wonderful in May, but that is also when it can be the City from Hell. That's coz May is the prime month for strike in Paris (and France) -- when les Français and les Françaises get their first whiff of sun and warmth after the drear of winter, and when they decide to invoke their Dieu-given droit de la grève. No way to get around, just roll with the punches.

Thanks, all for your support--and suggestions! I have to be careful not to turn this into a Paris thread or the editors are going to banish me to another forum.

Kristina, I will DEFINITELY take you up on that offer...let's get somethin on the books!

Smeagol, I plan to buy the Luxe guide. I'll have to shelf the Bali one I just bought 2 weeks ago

Thanks for all the tips, rizzuto! We're actually planning on renting an apartment and I've started the somewhat overwhelming search already (so much to choose from--so many different areas!)

The apartment selection is the hardest part! Do you need one big enough for the whole family? Beware of fold out sofas in the living room being listed as one of the "bedrooms."
There are a couple of lengthy threads on the Europe board discussing Paris apartments. I can recommend a couple, but only if you are looking for a studio or 1 bedroom.
Send me an email soon, let's get together for dinner or weekend lunch. My David keeps saying we need to get together with you and your David.