Look Out Indonesia, Here We Come!

Congratulations on your father in law successfully fighting the big C and on your upcoming trip to Indonesia!

Hey the "via Bangkok" part, it will be nice to have you back here and I insist on a GTG!

Isn't May the time Bob and Andy, plus myself, will be going to Bali? Are you planning your trip to coincide with Bob's?

Filmwell, I’m glad to hear that you’re back on track for Indonesia.

You’ll easily fill up four days in the Ubud area.

I’m less enthusiastic about Lombok. Nice beaches, yes, but not much on the culture side and the aggravation of getting in and out is, to me, greater than the rewards. I would opt for a Bali beach (warts and all) or extend your time in Central Java.

Alternately maybe you could rearrange your order so that you could avoid the overnight between Lombok (Mataram) and Yogya. For example BKK/Lombok/Bali/Yogya/KL or BKK/Yogya/Bali/Lombok/KL. When you’re looking at flights for Central Java remember that you can use Yogyakarta and Solo (Surakarta) interchangeably and that Semarang is also an option.

I prefer Garuda in Indonesia because it has the most flights and the best infrastructure. When things go wrong as they are apt to do in Indonesia – like delayed or canceled flights – Garuda offers the most options. Don’t get me wrong: Garuda’s communication can be pathetically inadequate but it’s the best of the worst and you can always find someone at the airport to complain to.

Thanks marmot for all the awesome suggestions! I did consider that, but unfortunately, I feel like I wouldn't want to unwind/adjust in Lombok first (over Ubud.) I've toyed with the notion of exploring Java a bit more (so that's definitely interesting to me), but I wouldn't even know where to start. That coffee plantation that robbietravels mentioned seemed amazing (but maybe too expensive?) -- but that's the kind of vibe we love. Any suggestions?

Bali beaches don't particularly speak to me...at least nothing that I've seen so far. I don't think we'd like any nightlife/shopping type places. Sure, we're still young, but that's definitely not our scene. Way back when, I was considering the Damai Lovina, but it seemed to pale in comparison to other options (like Qunci Villas in Lombok.)

Hanuman, I wish...and maybe something will change...but as of right now (and according to our tickets) we'll only be in BKK for layovers on our connecting flights. If anything changes, you know you'll be the first to know! I would love--repeat love--to finally catch up with you! And, yes, to answer your question: Bob and Andy's trip does overlap ours--not completely, but at one point it does.

Where to start...

KL - it is interesting, but there's not a whole lot to do (it's more an experience place). Day trips to the Batu caves and Melaka are recommended.

Can't speak to Lombok - was actually thinking of going there in May before / after the GTG in Bali, but I have my eye on the Gilis rather than the big island (for diving). There's always Flores and Komodo if you want a bit more adventure.

More Java - one trip on my "to-do" list is a route roughly from Yogya through Malang to Surabaya. You could take in the sunrise at Mt Bromo before hitting Surabaya. From Surabaya, you can get direct flights to Singapore and KL, or back to Bali. Check out the Tugu Hotel in Malang.

This is serious. It is now more important than ever that North Carolina suffres an ignominious loss in the NCAA. If they're two time winners, David will be able to really ridicule me.

YAY so glad it's working out for you. I totally get that feeling after just booking a flight...
Looking forward to hearing how your trip develops.
3 weeks to go before Muffin and I are off to Vietnam... YIPPEE
(or course we have the visit from Bob and Karen this Saturday to look forward to first)

There's not a lot of "boutique" style resort/hotel development in Java. I haven't been to Losari but I've spent time in the area and it is very scenic.

East Java has some areas of interest, but aside from Bromo, which is spectacular, it's quite lowkey. Malang is a sleepy but charming town. The quirky Tugu hotel is its main claim to fame. Malang is not an easy place to get to, though.

I stayed in Malang when I went to Bromo and don't think I'd do that again as it was an extremely long and arduous day. The Bromo area itself is worth a stay as it's profoundly beautiful.

I also really enjoyed the Majapahit hotel in Surabaya. It was part of the Sarkey "chain" along with Raffles, the Strand and the E&O. (Funny thing, I've stayed at all of them but only the Majapahit after renovation.) Otherwise, I'd give Surabaya a miss.

You can also take the ferry from the tip of Java to Bali. If Again, it makes for a long day from Surabaya (or Bromo) but it gets you to North Bali which is in itself a worthwhile destination. I recently stayed at the Puri Ganesha villas. They are really, really nice, but oddly very pricy. From there it's a beautiful drive down to Ubud.

If I were you I'd do Java first as it is the most challenging, then Lombok to recover, then Bali saving the best for last.

(Marmot, I'd forgotten about the Majapahit hotel in Surabaya. I love the old Sarkie Bros. hotels and would love to stay there. Maybe we'll have to make that a stop when we return to Java.)

Bill, I'm so glad you and David will be off to Indonesia in 2010! I have a number of ideas, some of which will likely cause you to tear your hair out (or want to tear mine out), but here goes:

The routing on this trip seems awkward. I think there are a number of ways to remedy this. First, would it be possible to route yourself through Singapore rather than Bangkok? In my experience, it's easier to get award tickets to Singapore than to Bangkok. I'd also suggest substituting Singapore for KL. If you were willing/able to do both of those things, your logistics wuold be much simpler. There is just not a lot to do in KL. I've been there three times, the last time we spent 5 days there. I thought we'd find the "hidden gems" of KL. Well, either the gems are REALLY well hidden or they aren't our idea of gems. It's not a bad place, just not much to do/see. Singapore has much more to offer, IMO. I also wouldn't consider Malacca a day trip from KL, if you want to see it spend a night there though probably not this trip. It's actually closer to Singapore.

I'm not sure why you don't want to unwind in Lombok - I can't think of a better place to unwind. I'd probably go to Lombok first. If you fly from Singapore, you have the option of a non-stop on Silk Air, though it's rather expensive. Or, if it must be Bali first, Bali is a much shorter flight from Singapore than from Bangkok.

I'd go from Lombok to Bali, from Bali to Java, then Java back to Singapore (you have the option of Silk Air to Singapore)either for a flight home or to fly onward to Bangkok and then home. Or if it must be Bali first, Bali to Lombok then Lombok to Java and back to Singapore. Aso consider Bali to Java to Lombok. Take a look at the air connections. If Singapore is your gateway you have the Silk Air non-stop options in/out of Mataram (Lombok) and Solo (Java) to/from Singapore.

No matter what you decide, this will be a fabulous trip!

Wow, LOTS to digest here. Although, yes, I may need to pull my hair out now

As for the overall routing, our award tickets are booked and locked in into DPS (via Bangkok) and out of Kuala Lumpur. Unless, of course, we want to pay a change fee, which is definitely not an option right now.

So how can we make this work? Not so much worried about the Lombok/Bali first issue...can always work around that.

Not saying that Singapore isn't an option--but we'd still have to hit Kuala Lumpur at the end somehow. And that might make things much more complicated (adding another destination.)

Guess I gotta chew on this one more.

If you are locked into the DPS via Bangkok and out via KL, then don't add in Singapore, make the best of what you have. Maybe cut one of the KL nights... (can you believe I'm suggesting a shorter stay somewhere?)

I wonder if Marmot's idea of Java first would work. As long as you started with some relaxing time such as the Losari (that's where we want to stay), it might work out.

Figuring out these logistics is complicated. Last time we tried to plan this trip (Java and Bali or Lombok) we threw up our hands and went elsewhere. Our dates were locked in at the time of Hari Raya and we couldn't get plane reservations between our Indonesian destinations.

marmot, definitely interested in a trip to Bromo. How much time would you allow? How would recommend getting in and out? Assume we could make our way from Yogya there and then onto Surabaya? Also, do you recommend getting a guide/driver for something like this?

I read a recommendation somwhere about Java Banana in Sakapura as a decent hotel near Bromo. Any hotel reccos?

Hi Filmwill

I was recently in Ubud and the Gili Islands (off of Lombok). Don't tell the Panda, but I have been rather tardy in getting my trip report posted. But I did want to throw in my 2 cents, anyway.

Not sure if you're definitely set on Lombok, but I had a great time in the Gili Islands (between Bali and Lombok). The islands are very small, no cars, great white sand beaches and good snorkeling. I took the fast ferry (very safe) from Padangbai in Bali, and the trip only took about 1.5 hrs. Here are 2 places to stay, that looked great:
www.alamindahbali.com/alam_gili.htm
www.karmakayak.com

Even if you stick with the Lombok plan, you might look into taking the ferry instead of flying, if the times work better for you.

As other's have suggested, I might also consider doing the beach/chill time first, as there is so much more to do in Ubud.

I threw Malang in there as just an interesting stop on the way to Bromo, that looks interesting to me for what's around it. Like Kathie, I can spend hours on each and every pile of rocks between Borobodur and Besakih, and there are quite a few of those around Malang. Other than that, it's just one place to stop on the way to Bromo.

The typical trip to Bromo involves either a long schlep from Surabaya or Malang overnight, OR, a leisurely trip in the day time up to some lodge where you'll spend (half) a night before traveling up to see the sunrise. I used Bromo Cottages, and arranged the necessary car and driver from them for the whole trip from Surabaya and back (including some sightseeing in Surabaya).

I agree Surabaya isn't much of a destination in itself. It's just a place with lots of connections, that's closer to Bromo than trying to get back to Solo or Yogya. The Majapahit is very nice (I stayed there when it was still part of the M-O chain), and if you have time the Sapoerna Museum is interesting. I stayed one night in the Majapahit, traveled up to Bromo Cottages the next day, saw the sunrise and got back to Surabaya for a late afternoon flight to DPS.

Around Solo, I'm not sure if you've got Candi Sukuh on your list. You guys might find it interesting, and the drive up there is certainly nice.

Yes, Candi Sukuh is certainly worth a stop. And I agree with Michael that the drive is lovely.

We stopped at the Kraton is Solo, which was intersting and stopped at the place where they make the batik for the Solo Kraton. Imagine batik that takes 3-4 months to make a single length!

Glad to hear your trip is back on!

You may be pulling your hair out, but for a wonderful reason

PS Have you ever been on safari? You think you're obsessive now...

Haha, Femi. Oh, I couldn't even try that one now. It might push me over the edge.

Absolutely. I won't lose sight of the fact that I'm still over-the-moon about this trip. Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Bali...whatever it may be. I'LL BE IN ASIA AGAIN!

Hard to beat that, if you ask me...

Bromo is an undertaking wherever you stay, but it is, to me, sublimely beautiful. When I went I “commuted” from Malang and I swore I’d stay on the mountain the next time, but with one thing and another have never returned. My son was there two years ago and stayed on Bromo at the Lava View Lodge. He said it was well situated, but grungy which is pretty much the consensus of the older places in the area. Java Banana’s website certainly looks appealing.

This Wikitravel article is helpful in getting a perspective of what’s where.
http://wikitravel.org/en/Bromo-Tengger-Semeru_National_Park

If you do go to Bromo I’d try to stay on the mountain at least one night. The area is breathtakingly beautiful, all day, not just at sunrise. Surabaya is somewhat closer than Malang but it’s still one of those get up at 2:00 a.m. events which are to me very disconcerting.

All of the resorts have guides who will also provide transport (and annoyingly take you to crummy restaurants).

It’s a long drive (~12 hours+) from Central Java to Malang, Surabaya or Bromo so it’s better to fly. You don't want to be driving after dark. The flight schedules are somewhat unpredictable, however.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my stay at the Tugu in Malang and the Majapahit in Surabaya. Malang is a quintessential Javanese small town. Orderly, slow and charming. Surabaya is a big city -- crowded and busy.

Bromo Cottages were a bit grungy as well. But faced with a 3:30 wakeup call you don't exactly want to get too comfortable, I guess. For me, the sunrise was 'nice' but I'm not sure it was worth getting up at 3:30 for. However, the sight of all those cowboys galloping around the old cinder cone as we crossed the sea of ash in the crater, then staring down into the brimstone-lined craters were definitely memories.

You certainly could fly to Surabaya from Yogya (or probably Solo) and do Bromo from there if the road trip through Malang doesn't appeal. Malang has an airport, but it only gets a couple flights a day to/from Jakarta.

Ijen is another spectacular volcanic crater plus lake in East Java. I haven't been there but I hear it's fascinating. I came across the website of this resort that looks great. Their tour combines Surabaya, Bromo and Ijen.

http://www.ijendiscovery.com/index.html

Okay, guys. I'm SO overwhelmed. You're killing me with all these good ideas. I think it's mostly just from being overwhelmed at the possibilities of how many different directions one could take a trip like this in (and how many places one could go.)

This comes even after flipping through my new Lonely Planet Indonesia guide to try and get some centering so I can focus in on the places we want to go. And to add to that, I have all your great suggestions on here.

I'm wondering if Lombok is even worth the visit? I've always been interested in Qunci Villas more than the island itself, mostly due to all the rave reviews here. But I think that was the main purpose for that visit--not other particular overriding reason.

That said, I'm thinking out loud here and re-organizing this trip in my head a bit so we can try and get a Bromo (and possibly even Ijen) visit in. That said, I really do want to make sure that Bali itself is the focal point of this trip...I've been dreaming of Ubud for years and that was the real impetus for the trip to begin with, so I don't want to lose that in the mix. I've taken a half-assed attempt at revising this itinerary. What do you guys think?

Tell me I'm crazy. That's what this is starting to feel like

Day 1 Depart LAX
Day 3 Arrive Bangkok/Transfer to Denpasar/Transfer to Yogya
Day 4 Yogya
Day 5 Yogya (Borobudur)
Day 6 Yogya (Prambanan)
Day 7 Fly to Surabaya
Day 8 Surabaya to Bromo (for 2N/3D volcanoes tour--guided, per marmot's suggestion)
Day 9 Bromo to Ijen
Day 10 Ijen to Bali (transfer to Bali via ferry)
Day 11 Ubud
Day 12 Ubud
Day 13 Ubud
Day 14 Ubud
Day 15 Ubud
Day 16 Fly to Kuala Lumpur (AM departure)
Day 17 Kuala Lumpur
Day 18 Fly to BKK/LAX

Qunci Villas on Lombok is a wonderful place to chill out. I agree it is not a destination in and of itself.

Your new itinerary looks exciting. It will be jam-packed until you get to Ubud. So take so time there to relax.

Ther is lots and lots to do in the Yogya area, you'll have to choose which things to do, which to leave out.

Yeah, it looks like you've only got time for the "big two" in Yogya, but that's probably okay for you guys. Bromo and Ijen will certainly be things you won't likely see anywhere else.

So, when is the Bali GTG???

Michael, I'm down if it works for everyone else!

BTW, am curious to get marmot's feedback on this revised itinerary.

I'm shocked that no one said what we were proposing was ridiculous...I was kind of expecting that.

There are five Ubud days on your proposed itinerary. When his Bobness returns from Safari, he will "contribute" his "thoughts". Can't wait? We will be in Ubud 5/25/10-5/31/10. Sanur before and Seminyak after, each for four nights. We are not as young nor as ambitious as you and the hated NC fan. What are your proposed dates?

Yes, well, we know you too well by now. Expect more heated discussion over your choices of accommodation.

Panda, it really depends on how we arrange Bali into the mix, but we'll be there sometime between the 15th and 30th of May. Looks like, if we end the trip in Bali, we'd be more primed for a Bali GTG then. That could be lots of fun (provided you and Bob stay behind, of course.)

BTW, Michael, speaking of accommodations...Bromo Cottages? EEK! I mean, I'm down with roughing it and all, but after checking out all the lovely pics of mildew everywhere on TA, I guess that's one of those 'taking it for the team' kind of places...? I guess they can charge that much for that little just for the convenience factor alone. I just wrote to Java Banana (seems like a better option) to see what their options are in regards to tours and pickups/drop-offs from Surabaya.

I also briefly toyed with the notion of scrapping Bromo in favor of a snorkeling jaunt to Sulawesi, but it seemed like it would take awhile to do and it's something we've already done a lot of in SE Asia...and unless there's something particularly out-of-this world about it for snorkeling (seems more suited to divers), I might be more inclined to do that on a 2nd visit.

I'm thinking we may even ditch Ijen and just go from Yogya to Bromo (Surabaya) and then fly back to Bali--allowing even more time in Bali (possibly allowing us a few nights in a different Bali destination: maybe Lovina?)

filmwell, Java's not an easy place to travel in. You have to be prepared for lots of aggravation -- delay, heat, misinformation, miscommunication. It can be very bewildering. One weird place is how we usually characterize it.

I'd say four nights in the Yogya/Borobudur area will be enough. You may even do with three. Wherever you are you end up spending a lot of time driving from place to place, which can get tiresome.

The accommodations at Bromo are definitely substandard. I'd give Java Banana a try. They at least sound like they're trying to upgrade, though it's unclear how successful they are.

If you leave Ijen for another trip (see how you like Bromo first) then you'll have more time for Bali, or Lombok if you so decide.

North Bali just hasn't grasped the full potential of tourism, I think because there just isn't a good beach. The snorkling at Menjangan is very good. Puri Ganesha in Pemuteran is a wonderful experience. The scenery along the way is magnificent.

Sorry, I've missed the back story: have you been to Bali before? If not, I'd suggest that you spend a day or two at Seminyak. It is touristy, but in a fun and stylish way.

All great suggestions, again! I thought 4 days in Yogya if only for the fact that our first day there we will have just traveled 24+ hours straight to get there, so figure we might need some rest. Sounds like, from what Kathie said, there's a lot more to see than just temples. And, yes, I've been warned about the batik hawkers. Hopefully there's more to do than see batik. Not a big fan.

I have a dear friend who just finished grad school and did her internship in Indonesia--and she kind of gave me the riot act on traveling to more of the 'off the beaten' places in Java. I guess as much as I want to be seeing truly unique sites (Ijen, etc.) I just don't want to spend a great deal of time with the

Nope--haven't been to Bali before. We did consider Seminyak for a New York minute, but I don't know--I think I may get my fill of shopping and the like in Ubud. I'm trying my damnedest to avoid the "other side" of Bali--I know it's not Kuta, but anything even close to reminding me that I'm not halfway across the world is something I'm trying to stay away from on this trip. Who knows? Maybe I'm missing something. But when I was looking into it, it seemed a bit perhaps too...cosmopolitan for me?

BTW, marmot, what are you recommendations on getting to Surabaya from Yogyka (and then back to Denpasar from there?) Sounds like there are bunch of options (driver, sketchy airlines, etc.) -- none of which sound particularly reliable. So curious to get your two cents on this one.

The Java portion is really the only part I'm not sure of how to get my hands around quite yet.

Thanks for your help in moving me a step closer to getting there.

Sorry--this paragraph got cut off:

I have a dear friend who just finished grad school and did her internship in Indonesia--and she kind of gave me the riot act on traveling to more of the 'off the beaten' places in Java. I guess as much as I want to be seeing truly unique sites (Ijen, etc.) I just don't want to spend a great deal of time with the various delays and speedbumps I'm sure to encounter getting to some of those places when every day counts. It simply may be a matter of trying to squeeze way too much into this trip.

what dates are you in ubud??

I hate the say it, but Bromo Cottages was not the worst place Ive stayed. I don't know what they're charging now, but I got a car and driver for most of two days (Surabaya tour, up to Bromo Cottage, up to Bromo, then back to Surabaya) plus the "stay" at Bromo Cottages for around $100. When I went a couple years ago, there weren't a lot of options contactable over the 'net. Things are probably a lot different now.

I think flying from Yogya to Surabaya is the best option for you. I'm pretty sure Garuda flies it. I've flown it on Batavia, which was okay for such a short flight. Since you're not connecting in Surabaya, I'd book a flight and not worry about it. Surabaya has LOTS of flights to Bali. I now make close to 20 domestic flights a year in Indonesia, and I haven't had more than a 30 minute delay in more than year. The airlines there are a lot better than they used to be.

I wouldn't recommend snorkeling in Sulawesi, at least not for this trip. You'd have to fly to Makassar, then connect to Manado, making for a whole day of travel to get there. Plus, I think the snorkeling is better around Komodo. I was with snorkelers on my dive trip to Komodo, and they were seeing almost everything that we saw. Of course, a live-aboard is about the only way to do, so that's another 4 - 5 day chunk of time you'd have to squeeze in.

BTW, since I'm sure you're short of options in Ubud you might like to know that another friend of mine has opened a new place right in town: http://www.rumahrio.com/ A (different) friend stayed there last weekend and said it was VERY nice.

Filmwell, Did your friend caution you against seeing too little of the “real” Indonesia or not enough? Java is intense. A little bit goes a long way. Java is Indonesia’s great heart – mystical, ancient and utterly exasperating.

Bromo = adventure travel so there’s no way to experience it in total comfort. Your choices are basically spend the night on the mountain in less than ideal accommodations but when you wake up you’re there and it’s magnificent! Or stay in Surabaya or Malang and commute in the middle of the night. Or maybe one of each?

Either way you need to get out of Central Java and into Eastern Java. It’s a beautiful drive but long – as I said some 12 hours plus. Hard to predict what the flights will be like next May. Right now the choices are limited. Lion Air/Wings Air flies Yogya to Surabaya but the flight leaves at 6:00 a.m.
Sriwijaya air flies from Semarang to Surabaya at 0950. Semarang is about 3 hours from Yogya, maybe 2+ from the Losari area.
Otherwise you have to go back through Jakarta, which all tolled may come out the same in hours expended. There are many flights Jakarta to Surabaya or Malang.

I’m not wild about these commuter airlines but millions (literally) of people take them every day and get to their destination no worse for the experience. It’s a big country and ground/sea transportation sometimes isn’t practical.

There’s also the train, but I don’t think you could work out details with out help from an Indonesian on the ground. Once you’ve made your Yogya reservations your hotel would be the best place to start for help in onward reservations.

Even though it’s counterintuitive your connections may be better if you do Yogya Bali Bromo or Bromo Bali Yogya.

Surabaya to Denpasar is easy.

On to Bali. I admit I like the beach in Bali, especially Seminyak. I like the energy, the sunsets, the long walks, the big surfer waves, the outlandish outfits, the stylish restaurants, the Balinese religious processions intermixed with the sun worshippers and just staring out to sea. Bali is a small island and the ocean plays an important part in the religious dichotomies – good/evil, black/white etc. The spiritual core is inland, for sure, but the sea encompasses it all.

Sorry I meant to say
Did your friend caution you against seeing too MUCH of the “real” Indonesia or not enough? Some people who spend time in Java can't wait to escape.

Michael, Thanks for the Rumah Rio link. I don't know Rio Helmi but I admire his work. I'm sure he'll offer the real deal in Balinese experience.

marmot, she simply said that it's "rough" and to be prepared for the frustration and lack of infrastructure...noting, of course, that the reward of seeing some of these places is well worth it. she also noted that she thought I was trying to accomplish too much on one trip and suggested limiting our time in Java to just Yogya for this trip.

Marmot makes a good point. You may have more options if you route Yogya, Bali, Surabaya than if going from Yogya to Surabaya. Lion Air currently has only one flight a day (at 06:00!) from YOG to SUB. Garuda isn't showing any at all.

You're saying just connect to Surabaya via DPS? Any idea offhand of how much time that might add (vs. a direct flight)?

If you want to get from Yogya to Surabaya and you don't want to take the 0600 flight, then you'd have to connection is through Jakarta or through Denpasar. I think Jakarta would be more flexible and a little shorter but it depends on the time and flights. The whole proceedure would take about 3 hours but there are quite a few flight options.

The 0600 flight from Yoyga is doable. You'll have to leave your Yogya hotel at 0430 but you'll find that about 100 million Javanese are also awake at that time for first prayers.

My thinking was that you would start Yogya, do your thing there, then go to Bali and stay there, THEN fly to Surabaya at the end of your trip. Going from Yogya to Surabaya through Jakarta or Bali would take the better part of a day, and whenever possible I try to avoid connections in Indonesia.

It appears you can get to Yogya from KL and fly to KL from Surabaya on Air Asia, so this would work. As Marmot says, it's counter-intuitive but it is probably the most efficient.

I just happenened on this question because Katie and marmmot and Michael have helped me with my upcoming trip to Central Java. You have made a wuise decision to eliminate Lombok. We were sorely disapointed when we left Bali for there. It was , in our opinion, a total non-event except for the wet market which you can find elsewhere. The 4 days in Ubad I assume, I did not read closely, is as a base, because visiting there twice I think 2 full 8-9 hour days within a 20 mile radius of Ubad is sufficient but from there you can do great great day trips with and guide and driver. We thought KL was worth 1 full day in town unless you jouney to the Camerron Highlands which in March-April are simple lovely. It makes for a long day but with a knowlegeable guide/driver it is 5 hrs. RT but the scenic beauty is awesome and the gypsy residents that live within 15 miles around the Highlands are a very interesting group to meet. Our guide knew some of them so it made it quite special. I personally would take a pass on the Genting Highlands and we were not that impressed though it was interesting to see the Batu Caves. The shopping is enjoyable but it is not a bargain hunters playground by any stretch of the imagination.We recommended to friends 3 full days/4nts. last year and they thought that was just right if you go to the Highlands because that is a 10-11 hour day and the guide/driver cost ~$200USD in 2007. I do not mean to spoil any plans but thought I would add my two cwents. you will have a ball.
Our only disappointment is we cannot make a day trip to Bromo from Yogya and our 4 days/5nts far full.

Bill...One thing to do in KL is take the tour of the Petronis towers. I skimmed thru peoples responses and did not see that sugested to you. Bob was luke warm about the tour when I suggested it, but really enjoied it. The key is to get there and be in line before it opens. We were in and out by 10 am. Otherwise there are always long lines. Enjoy and we will see you in Bali? k

Bil; Not to counter kmkrnn unless you get there 20+ minutes before it opens on a weekday the wait can be long and though we enjoyed the experience a 1 hour wait plus factored in I would have rather used the the time 3 hours total differently (getting there, waiting, going up, etc. and on to next dest.=3hrs.). We were there 30 minutes early and did it total time was 90 minutes and worth it.

Just catching up with everyone on this board and glad your back ON for next May. As I read thru this thread several questions come to mind that you may want to investigate/consider. Ask Marmot if Bromo is prone to rain and heavy mist when you are going. I mention this because when we wanted to go to Gedong Solo from Losari the cloud cover was so dense we had to cancel our outing...and that was just a one day blip.
What are the things you are interested in seeing in Yogya? Kathie and other will probably disagree with me but I did not find anything so compelling in Yogya that I would make it my base. Check to see if Prambanan is still under renovation and cordoned off. If you can't go inside the temples, how will that affect your experience?
As you know, I loved Losari and it was nearly empty when I was there last May. I'd say get on Skype and call the General Manager. See if you can get a very discounted rate on their least expensive accommodation, which I'm sure is very nice. It never hurts to ask politely and persistently. I think you'd love the hiking and walking in this area, the sheer beauty of the surround and the access to wandering through villages within 1-2 kms from Losari. So I'd consider Losari or the hotel across the way from Borobudur as a base instead of Yogya. (You can always go in to Yogya for a day tour from Borobudur area). The villages around Borobudur are wonderful to wanter in; we followed families in to the rice fields and visited. The weekly market in Borobudur is at the very least a B+ market. Magalang is 40 minutes from Boro and has some interesting sites besides the traffic.
As to beaches in Bali, I'd pick the south. The GM of the Allia Manggis is a lovely fellow from Sri Lanka, call and see if you can get a bargain rate. The beach is lovely, uncrowded and its a great base to visit the Bali Aga villages of Tanganan, the town of Klungking, etc.
On this last visit I found Seminyak unsatisfying. Yes, there are lots of shops, nothing different (maybe less intresting) than what you see along Abbot Kenney in Venice. I don't think you'll be an experience of the local people in that area. And the traffic is horrendous. It took us 30 minutes to drive from Kuta to Seminyak in bumper to bumper traffic when we drove in from the south. Feel free to email me if you want further input from me.

Weather is always an issue with Bromo. I went in August, which is supposed to be one of the best times to go, but even then the bellman at the Majapahit hotel had told me that the day before I was to go, he had been there and the winds were horrible. The weather was near perfect for my sunrise. May is perhaps a bit more of a 'risk' but as I'm sure you know, weather is always a risk when traveling this part of the world. In this case, it is going to have a big effect on your experience, but only you can judge whether or not it's a deal-breaker (FWIW, wind is a bigger issue than rain - all that volcanic dust is not fun when it's wet - and they are predicting a dryer wet season next year due to el Nino).

I have to laugh when people talk about "all the shops" in Seminyak. I know the area they're talking about, and I tend to think of that area more as "north Legian" rather than Seminyak (although I guess it *technically* is Seminyak). The "Seminyak" that I like is further north of that area, around the Petitengit temple, and has hardly any shops.

I would agree with the recent comments on Seminyak...I was underwhelmed. It was very crowded with traffic and the stores were hit and miss. Also, the prices were quite high I thought and there was NO bargining or wiggle room on the prices.

MichaelBKK- I stayed at this place, www.desaseni.com north of Seminyak and close to the Petitengit temple...is this where you mean?

cruisin, I'd love to hear more about Desaseni. It says in their website that they're in Canggu which is about 5-10 miles from Petitengit, but you say you were near the Petitengit temple? I can't seem to find a map on their website. How was the yoga?

When I think Seminyak I mean Petitengit too. This area includes Legian, Samaya, Sentosa and a zillion villa accommodations plus LaLucciola, Living Room, Hu Bar, Sarong and a zillion other restaurants, spas and clubs.

The shops are definitely upscales and as noted hit or miss. Actually, I'd say hit or miss is a good description for all retail in Bali. There's good stuff but you have to wade through a lot of flotsam and jetsam.

I'm not much of a shopper, but my US clients who are serious acquirers always like shopping Seminyak -- from North Legian to Petitenget.

Hi Marmot

I really liked Desa Seni. I think it is quite unique in all of Bali. I really lucked out and had this entire house all to myself, for the price of a small room! http://www.desaseni.com/gambuh.htm

As you may have read on the website, all of "rooms" are actually authentic wood houses (mostly from Java) reconstructed on site. The houses are decorated with antiques from all over Indonesia, from the owner's extensive collection. The food was great, too...very fresh, from the onsite organic garden. And the service was both competent and friendly. The yoga was not quite as good as the yoga classes I did at the yoga barn in Ubud, but still quite satisfying.

I think you might like Desa Seni for a weekend jaunt!

robbie, I was hoping you would come back soon! I've been really looking forward to your input since you've stayed at a lot of the places we were interested in. I do wonder about Losari...mostly wondering if you stayed there since the management shift. I've actually read a few recent reviews on it that talk about a very recent management shift and how the place has gone totally downhill (i.e., rooms look worn out, old, etc...amenties/meals are very overpriced)...curious to get your first-hand input on that.

Re: Yogya. I should clarify: we were planning on doing 2 nights in Borobudur and 2 nights in Yogya...so Yogya wouldn't be our base. Just waiting to see what kind of rates we can get in Borobudur proper and then figure it out from there. Still waiting to hear back from Amanjiwo on the best rates they can offer. If we have one splurge hotel-wise this trip, that will be it.

stan, thanks so much for all your input as well. You've definitely given me some gems to meditate on. I'm actually now leaning towards taking 1 or 2 days once we arrive (in Bali from BKK) and spending them in a place like Desa Seni (although after having used up our 1 splurge item, the rate is a bit high for us) to unwind, get used to the time difference a bit and then head on to Yogya (possibly Bromo) then back to Ubud and then to KL.

Where is Canggu? Is it easily accessible from the airport? We may stay only a day before heading to Yogya. Maybe 2 at most. What's the area like? Walkable?

Gee, I was unaware of the management change at Losari. When did this happen? We stayed there the third week in May of 2009. At that time, the room we had was stunning. I can't image it getting run down so quickly unless others stayed in rooms that needed refurbishing back then and now its worse. If the price is right, I'd still try to stay. The place was so under booked, you could check out several rooms before deciding. Two night in Borobudur and 2 in Yogya make sense to me.

Canggu is the next area up from Seminyak. You can reach it easily from the airport via the sunset road, which bypasses the jams of Legian street. It's much less developed than any of the places further south.

If you're just looking for a quiet place to unwind after the long trip, you might also consider Sanur. Sounds like Lori (Offwego) had a nice stay at La Taverna (? I think that was it). She had a very good observation about Sanur, which is that it's the one area where it's still very easy to find places right on the beach. Of course, if you were coming here for the GTG, like you're supposed to, then you could talk to her directly about it.

In Yogya, I recently found out that the Sheraton had finally re-opened. It's out near Prambanan, which puts it a long way from town (some might say that's a good thing) but I would still rate it as the best "room with a view" I've ever had.

Canggu is as Michael says north of Seminyak. The area where Desa Seni is located is actually Berawa (or Brawa) which is in between the Petitenget part of Seminyak and Canggu. (All of the neighborhood names in Bali should be taken loosely. They overlap.)

Canggu is popular among Western expats and there are many, many rental villas in the area. To me it has a suburban feel: villas and rice paddies. Aside from the Tugu Hotel and the Canggu Club and a handful of restaurants there’s not much development. The beach is just so so though you get nice sunsets.

You can definitely walk around Canggu itself but walking from there to other areas, no.

I didn’t know that the Losari had changed hands either though I see from their website that they are now the Losari SPA RETREAT and Coffee Plantation. After reading the wildly different opinions on Trip Advisor I must go and find out for myself.

I've been eyeing the website for this villa in Canggu:
http://www.tamuseseh.com/
It looks lovely, and I've seen the price as low as $125 for the 1 bed pool villa.
Unforunately, I didn't have time to check it out when I was in the 'hood in Sept. But it looks like it would be a lovely place to chill and recover from jetlag for a day or two.

We are staying at the Hyatt in Yoylakarta at a rate of $156 plus 17% tax/service for a deluxe king room on the Club Floor with breakfast, cocktails and snacks. We sometimes found after a long day of touring that we were not up to going outbto dinner and a few snacks (sometimes pretty good) were enough and an early bedtime. We booked it directly with the hotel's wensite note through the general Hyatt world-wide site. A deluxe king alone was I believe $125+tax/service.

Has anyone (marmot?) heard of this hotel in Yogya?

http://www.mahacandu-jogloplawang.com/index.php

Oh my, that does look tempting, even if it is in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably consider it, and David deserves the Royal Villa, I'm sure. As has been said, there's not much to Yogya. Tour the old palace, stroll down Marleoboro Street one evening, and you're pretty much done. There aren't even that many interesting restaurants, it seems. I don't usually like eating in hotels, but Yogya seems to be one of the few places where that ends up being the best option.

Re Joglo Plawang: Nope, never heard of it. Could be quirky and charming. Or could be quirky and annoying. Either way, I'm sure that you'd be treated well; Indonesians are extremely hospitable and try their best to be of service even though their visitor's request often gets lost in translation.

I like the Hyatt in Yogya not because of the atmosphere (the garden is lovely but the rooms are non-descript) but because it's reliable. Everything works and the service is reasonably acceptable.

Yogya is a hot, crowded city that is very difficult to negotiate. You appreciate a peaceful well run place to retreat to.

What Michael says about restaurants in Yogya, ditto. There are hundreds of choices -- especially for Indonesian food -- but they are all profoundly ordinary. Many of the places that are listed in guidebooks are absolutely sub-standard. I mean disgusting.

Guys, another question for you. Hope it's not too broad.

How much time is enough in Ubud? Please consider that this will be our base for exploring most of Bali.

Right now, I'm looking at 5 or 6 nights--just depending. Is that enough? Too much? I realize this is all subjective. I assume we could find stuff to do for 10 days there if we wanted to.

Also, would you recommend spending half the time in Alam Shanti (where we're currently booked) and then one other place maybe a bit outside of Ubud (like the Komaneka)? Either way, we plan to do lots of daytrips. I figured it might be boring/repetitive to stay in one place only for possibly 6 nights.

Just trying to lock in times in each city so I can start booking airfare/hotels.

Let's see, things to do in/from Ubud:

white water rafting - 1 day
Besakih temple/Goa Lawa/Agung Village - 1 day
Gallery hopping & Monkey Forest - 1 day
Lakes trip - 1 day
Spa / doing nothing - 1 day+

Yup, you could do five nights there easy.

Knowing you guys, yeah, spending that much time in one place might get boring. Staying in town is really nice for exploring the city, but then staying in the countryside nearby is just as good for exploring. The Komaneka T. is really nice, and Payangan Hideaway is in the middle of nowhere. I might end up at the Hideaway again if we have a GTG in Ubud, although if Rio offers me his place in town, it would be rude to refuse!

I could easily fill up 5 days in the Ubud area. I'm not that fond of the town itself. The countryside to me is what it's all about.

After 5 days, though, the area starts to feel a little claustrophobic to me and I'm ready for a long long walk on the beach.

You'll find that destinations take you in all directions so it doesn't much matter where you start -- you'll still have to drive to get to wherever you want to go.

What I like about staying out of town is 1) the serenity and 2) the quiet walks through the villages, between the rice paddies, along the river valleys especially early morning and just before sunset. Sometimes you can get some spectacular stars. The markets are also notable. There's always a festival, a celebration or a procession going on in one village or other.

The advantage of being in town is that you don't have to wrestle with "transport, transport" after dinner or a performance at the Ubud Palace.

My to do list would include
Late night temple ceremony
Rafting
The mask museum in Kububingin
Kecak performance
Lots of spa-ing
John Hardy (even if you don't intend to buy)

If you're interested in architecture, try to get a tour of
Como Shambhala estate including the Sacred Spring
The Green School

If you're athletic, climb a mountain at sunrise.

I do not like the monkey forest.

Besakih is a hard one. It's extremely impressive but the touts and hustlers are overwhelming. If you go, go with a guide who can run interference.

How 'in-town' is Alam Shanti and how 'out-of-town' is Komaneka Tanggyuda?

I can only speak to Ubad 2007 and I would say in-town is worth 3-4 including a light lunch. The prices are higher in-town as well. It is the countryside and galleries of art and genuine antiques outside of town where you should devote your Ubad time, in my opinion.

Isn't it Ubud? Just checking.

I think I remember Bob saying that Alam Shanti is just on the other side of the Monkey Forest (not that that means anything to me, since I'm not sure where that is in respect to the town.)

I definitely wouldn't want to stay in the middle of a shopping/restaurant/gallery district, wherever we stay. If memory serves me correctly, Alam Shanti is just on the outskirts of town (much in the same way that La Residence is on the outskirts of Luang Prabang) whereas Komaneka is a bit outside, requiring a drive in...not walkable.

If someone could let me know if that's correct, that would definitely help.

Thanks for all the reccos on things to do. Are these things you recommend that are just around Ubud? i ask because the time we spend in Ubud we'll use to explore the entire island. So any other must-sees would definitely be appreciated

Komaneka Tanggyuda is about 20-30 minutes from Ubud central by car. I haven't been to Alam Shanti so can't comment on its immediate surroundings.

The town of Ubud is small and low key. Everything is walkable though the sidewalks can be disfunctional. Some days the traffic backs up and the motor cycles can be a menace, but its mostly a sleepy place.

Ubud fans out in all directions, encompasses rice paddies and overlaps with the neighboring villages. There's really no "center" though most people use Ubud Palace as the nexus. All of the restaurants, shops, resorts are within a 20 minute walking radius of the palace, in all directions.

Yes, "Ubud" is the only spelling I'm aware of.

The Monkey Forest is at the south end of "downtown" Ubud, so my understanding is that from the Alam Shanti, you walk through the Monkey Forest and then up Monkey Forest Road, which is lined with shops, galleries and restaurants. While not in the middle of town, the Alam Shanti does sound like it's close enough to walk to a lot of shops and restaurants.

The Komaneka has a scheduled van service to take you into town and bring you back.

Agree that you'll want to have a guide to take you to Besakih. Not only are there the touts, but it's a huge place that you might not fully appreciate on your own. Bring your own sarong unless you don't mind renting an ugly one for half what a new one costs.

Most of the island's big sights are quite accessible from Ubud, in some cases they're closer to Ubud than to the southern resorts. Besakih and Goa Lawa would be the furthest away. The Lake Batur area can be quite beautiful. Hopefully it will be open again by the time you get there. It was closed yesterday due to volcanic activity.

Okay, so here's attempt #3.

Taking into account a lot of your stellar advice.

Day 1 Depart LAX
Day 2 Arrive Bangkok / Transfer to Bali / Canggu (Hotel TBD)
Day 3 Canggu (Hotel TBD)
Day 4 Fly to Yogya (Saraswati Hotel) / Borobudur
Day 5 Yogya (Saraswati Hotel) / Prambanan
Day 6 Yogya (Hyatt)
Day 7 Yogya (Hyatt)
Day 8 Fly to Bali / Ubud (Alam Shanti)
Day 9 Ubud (Alam Shanti)
Day 10 Ubud (Alam Shanti)
Day 11 Ubud (Alam Shanti)
Day 12 Ubud (Komaneka Tangyyuda)
Day 13 Ubud (Komaneka Tangyyuda)
Day 14 Ubud (Komaneka Tangyyuda)
Day 15 Fly to Kuala Lumpur (Mandarin Oriental)
Day 16 Kuala Lumpur (Mandarin Oriental)
Day 17 Fly to Bangkok / LAX

Still gotta figure out if we're going to attempt some day trips out of Yogya (maybe Solo?) on those last 2 days there.

Also still a bit unsure about those first 2 days in Canggu. I feel like I'm just randomly picking a filler place to chill out and not even sure we need 2 days there or not. Alternatively, I thought maybe we should head to Yogya immediately and then take those 2 days later in the trip to go to Lovina, post-Ubud. Thoughts on that?

I feel like I'm getting closer here...so thanks for your patience and guidance. In general, what's the consensus?

Yeah, this could be close.

Canggu is nice, but it does seem an odd choice. It is quiet and close to Tanah Lot, but I'm not sure what else there is to recommend it. Since you'll have a night in Bangkok to start recharging, I suppose you could get a flight to Yogya the day you arrive in Bali. Thai departs Bangkok at 9:00 and arrives around 2:30 pm so you could make the Garuda flight to Yogya at 7:00 pm.

Alternatively, if you want to keep the time in Bali, maybe you should consider other locations, like Jimbaran or Uluwatu. You might like the Karma resort in Jimbaran or the new Alila Villas in Uluwatu.

Prambanan is just outside Yogya (it's just a little past the airport) so it would make sense to see it on the day you transfer to Yogya from Borobudur. Maybe that is what you intended.

If you've only got one full day in Yogya, then I don't think I'd attempt Solo, which will take most of a day.

Actually Michael, we don't have any time in Bangkok. We just have a 2hr layover before heading to Bali. We were going to take the first day or two in Bali to adjust prior to heading to Yogya. But as you said, I'm not particularly sold on one place to do this in.

I thought I saw a mention of leather shops in Yogyakarta. Is the quality very high equal to fine lamp skin mens bomber style jackets that in US are $500++? Also, same question for womens high quality lambskin blazers that in US at a Lord & Taylor are $300=$400?

Canggu would definitely be an “it depends.” I’m all for the advantages of villa living. You relax by the pool, take naps, kind folks wait on you.

However, if you’re thinking more of an interesting neighborhood with a balance of hanging out at the villa and walking around seeing the sights, trying different restaurants, doing a little shopping, enjoying the beach then you could do better than Canggu. I’d go for one of the beachy places. As I said, I like Petitengit Seminyak, but many others prefer Sanur.

Solo is very close to Yogya, geographically and physically. Unless you've an advanced interest in batik, I'd give it a miss. Try to get to the Dieng Plateau.

There are usually dance performances at the Yogya Kraton in the mornings. These are some of the best dancers in Java.

Also, after Borobudur have brunch at the Amanjiwo. It's also very nice for dinner at dusk. They usually have Javanese musicians with a woman who sings heartbreakingly beautiful ancient songs.

Just a two hour layover in Bangkok? How'd you swing that? I assumed you'd be on United, or one of those many flights that got in around midnight. Oh well, if that's the case, I might go for at least one night in Bali rather than rushing to another connection. You'll probably be zombies by the time you land in Denpasar. I'm still leaning towards Jimbaran though. Unwind, get into tourist mode by having dinner on the beach.

The old market and the palace in Solo are of some interest, but yeah, I wouldn't put it high on the to-do list. I'd much rather get into the hills around Solo, which does take a full day.

Stan, the leather I've seen in Yogya is nothing special. Istanbul is actually the best place I've seen for leather.

Crikey. Lots more input = lots more research to do. Thanks for the great stuff to chew on, guys (as always.)

Marmot, I love the idea of a meal @ Amanjiwo. I'm sad that we can't stay there, but I think I've just about given up on it...1 night there is about 4 other splurge nights we could spend somewhere else. I took robbietravel's advice and spoke to the GM there but I still was offered only a very slight discount. It's still wildly out of our budget.

Michael, we're actually coming in on Thai Air. So we'll get in at around 6 AM and connect out @ 9 AM. Yeah, I figured we'd be toast by the time we arrive. Even though we've always slept well on the flight over the Pacific, that's probably more traveling than I've ever done in 1 day and I expect that trying to continue on would be kinda ridiculous.

I'll look into Jimbaran and Sanur too, but I do really like marmot's idea about maybe a villa somewhere for a night or two (using some of that ex-Amanjiwo splurge money)--it might be well spent here, prior to heading off on our Java adventure. Anyone have any great villa recommendations for Sanur, Petitengit or Jimbaran?

These are some Seminyak villas that have been recommended by friends. I’ve never personally stayed at any of them, so I can’t give you firsthand advice. There are so many!

Sentosa
http://www.balisentosa.com/

Asri
http://www.villabaliasri.com/home.html

Lakshmi (part of Laksmana complex)
http://www.lakshmivillas.com/

Uma Sapna
http://www.coconuthomes.com/index.html

The Elysian
http://www.theelysian.com/

Thinking of something crazy (what? me?) and might want to spend the first 2 (or if we go here maybe 3) nights in Lovina for our "chill-out/refresh" time at Damai Lovina Villas in the beginning of the trip.

As much as I try to keep wrapping my hands around Seminyak or Sanur or any of these places in the south...there's just not much I'm finding that appeals or speaks to me--and for the same price as decent digs in Seminyak we could swing a stay at the Damai (which has been on my radar for years)

Is it a chore to get to Lovina from DPS airport? Would the trip alone (prior to heading to Yogya and then Ubud) warrant an extra day? 2 days seems adequate, but then again if we want to go snorkeling and soak up the scenery, I can easily see a 3 night stay @ Lovina, 4 nights in Yogya then back to Ubud for 7 nights and shortening our KL time to just 2 days/1 nights.

Thoughts?

I was just in Ubud at the beginning of this month. Stayed 7 nights at the Greenfield Bungalows. We hired a driver for 2 days at $40 usd which includes the gas and driver for about 8 hours per day. We did go to Sanur and the Kuta-Legian-Seminyak. IMHO, did not care for it. I can find better beaches and the same atmosphere in Mexico or the Caribbean.

As for your question, I could have stayed 2 weeks in Ubud and the surrounding area. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, we experienced 2 rolling blackouts while in Ubud. The first was on a Saturday night which lasted about 4 or 5 hours and again on a Wednesday afternoon for about 6 hours. Saturday night, we were the only ones without a flashlight. This is common in Indonesia from what I was told.

Some of the best restaurants were to be found such as the Three Monkeys, Casa Luna, Nomads and it goes on and on.

Have a great trip.

Rolling blackouts are now a fact of life in Bali, although I always seem to have missed them on my short visits. As to the question, DPS to Lovina is about a 4 hour drive, and that's after a four hour flight from Bangkok. Not sure that appeals to me, but it would certainly be different than anything you'll find in the south.

One thing to consider is that there are some interesting sights along the way (notably the lake temple at Bratan) but it will probably be getting dark by the time you get there. You'll want to be careful of your flight time out of DPS to make sure you have time for some sight-seeing on the way back to the airport, I think.

See anything in Candi Dasa that appeals to you? That's only a 2-hour drive from the airport.

I haven't been to Damai and from descriptions I'm not getting a clear picture of its immediate surroundings. I recently spent 3 nights in Pemuteran -- about four hours from the airport then another four back to Ubud. Although I liked Pemuteran and especially Puri Ganesha Villas a lot, I probably won't go back for a while. The drive was scenic, but . . . long. The snorkling at Menjanan was excellent but overpopulated. At the end of the day I was left with the impression that North Bali is trying too hard.

Important: make sure transportation is included in your rate.

Java and Bali and undergoing an electricity crisis and black outs are increasingly common. Most resorts have generators though. If you're concerned about sleeping without aircon, but sure to ask.

In Ubud, Yep, rolling blackouts-they suck if your place is w/out a generator which describes mine. They say every 10 days but I've been here 2 weeks now and have experienced 4, usually 6-10 pm, one was 10 am to 5 pm. Leave for Gili for a few days, don't know if you were looking at them at all but if u want any info I'll take notes.Supposed to have the best beaches and snorkeling.

laartista, we miss you!!!