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Last questions (train pass!) on 19-day itinerary

Last questions (train pass!) on 19-day itinerary

Old Jan 28th, 2016, 07:49 AM
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Last questions (train pass!) on 19-day itinerary

Whew! I have figured out my April itinerary and booked almost everything AND figured out the train schedules from place to place. Thanks for all the aid I found here. But I would be grateful for just a little more help:

1. Rail pass confusion: It looks to me like I might benefit from a 14-day JR rail pass. However, I find this very confusing and I know there are other passes. I have listed all my trains from place to place in this itinerary. Would anyone who is familiar with any of this care to give me an opinion?
2. Are there 2 levels of the Hakone Pass? Because I am not doing a round-trip there. See question in Hakone section.
3. I am currently spending two days going from Koyoto to Koyasan and then to Hiroshima. It’s busy and I wasn’t able to get into any of the few temples mentioned here in the forums, tho the temple I did get reservations for sounds OK via Tripadvisor. Is Koyasan a great time no matter what temple you stay in? If I didn’t do Koyasan, where would be most interesting to place 2 extra days?

JAPAN ITINERARY

April 8-11: Tokyo. Stay: ANA Intercontinental on points

April 11: Go to Hakone, stay Hakone at Ryokan Ichinoyu Honkan
Spend time at the Hakone Outdoor museum today.
Train scheme for getting there: I seem to have many choices out of Tokyo into Odawara and then onto Hakone. I could take the bullet train, the LTD Express or the JR Line. Hyperdia makes you pick a Hakone station so I picked Yumoto because I saw it on a Hakone attractions map.

Question: I’m confused by the Hakone Pass. Are there two levels of it? I am not going round-trip to Tokyo. But I do intend to do the whole circuit the next day with lake trip, etc.

April 12: Hakone exploration
Do the circuit with boat, etc. Using the pass?

April 13: Go to Kanazawa; stay at Hotel MyStays near station.

Train scheme:
1. Take Hakone Tozan Railway from Hakone-Yumoto station to Odawara
2. Then take the Shinkasen bullet train to Maibara (east of Kyoto)
3. Take the LTD Express Shirasagi 53 from Maibara to Kanazawa.
April 14: Kanazawa exploration
Do tea ceremony at Gyokusen-in?, visit famous garden.
April 15: Kanazawa: Noto
Rent car and drive Noto peninsula then back to Kanazawa

April 16: Train to Kyoto; stay at The B Kyoto Sanjo near Gion (I am on waiting list at Hotel Mume but probably don’t have a prayer! Town quite booked up.)
Train scheme:
Take LTD EXP Thunderbird 16 to Kyoto in a little over 2 hours.
April 17: Kyoto
April 18: Kyoto, day trip to Nara (and Fushimi?)
Train scheme: Take the JR Nara Rapid Service line to Nara. And back later that day.I could take the 7 pm and get in at 8. Too late? I could take the 5:22 and get back at 6:38.
April 19-20: Kyoto

April 21: Go to Osaka then to Koyosan. Stay in Temple Henjoson-in (the two mentioned in the fodor forums, Shijo-something and Eko-in, are full).
Train scheme:
1. At 9:30 am Take JR Special Rapid Service for HIMEJI to Osaka
2. In Osaka, I’ve got 7 minutes to travel 4 tracks to get to JR Kansai Airport Rapid Service for KANSAI AIRPORT
3. From Shinimamiya take Nankai Koya Line Exp. for GOKURAKUBASHI
4. From Gokrakubashi, take NANKAI KOYASAN CABLE for KOYASAN
5. This all gets me there at noon.

April 22: From Koyasan to Hiroshima; stay at Crown Plaza on points
Train scheme:
1. Take cable car to train station at Koyasan
2. At 11 am take Nankai Koya Line for HASHIMOTO
2. At Hashimoto take Nankai Koya Line Exp. for NAMBA
3. At SHINIMAMIYA walk 6 minutes to DOBUTSUEN-MAE
Where you get the Osaka City Subway Midosuji Line for SENRICHUO
4. At Shin-Osaka you take SHINKANSEN NOZOMI 107
And arrive at Hiroshima at 3.
You do 6 different things and you get there in 4 hours!

I am not sure how long it takes to have breakfast at the temple so I figured on leaving at 11. If we can leave earlier, we can get in earlier and see Peace Museum in the afternoon.

April 23: Go to and stay at Miyajima island at Sakuraya Inn
Train scheme:
From Hiroshima take the JR Sanyo Line for IWAKUNI
Then at MIYAJIMAGUCHI take the JR Miyajima Ferry for MIYAJIMA. Takes an hour.

April 24: Take ferry and train back to Hiroshima and stay at Crown Plaza on points or if cheap enough on a Sunday night, not on points. If we have already seen Peace Museum etc. we can stay later on island; if not, come back in time to do that.

April 25: Leave from Hiroshima to Osaka Airport
AT 10:25 take SHINKANSEN MIZUHO 602 to the Osaka station
Take the bus to the airport
Flight to US is at 5:30 so I could stay in Hiroshima for the morning.
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Old Jan 28th, 2016, 09:38 AM
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4/22: "4. At Shin-Osaka you take SHINKANSEN NOZOMI 107", and
4/25: "AT 10:25 take SHINKANSEN MIZUHO 602 to the Osaka station"

I'll wait for others to compare your fare versus a 14-day JR pass question. But on your listed train rides, if you will be traveling on a JR pass, you cannot ride a NOZOMI or a MIZUHO train. Therefore in your hyperdia.com searches, you'll need to click on the "More Options" link and then uncheck the "NOZOMI / MIZUHO (SHINKABSEN) box to get the proper train schedule.
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Old Jan 28th, 2016, 10:31 AM
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Wow... you're going all over the place. Sounds quite hectic, to be honest.

You definitely need to find an Onsen or 2 to soak away the schedule worries.

You will have to pay 30,000¥ to take N'EX from Narita and it will take you to many places or a considerable cheaper train ride if you're flying into Haneda. Sometimes they have 50% off prices, but I haven't checked. It's usually on their site. There are cheaper options, but many of it depends on where you're staying in Tokyo.

You don't need the JR pass in Tokyo as you probably already know. So, JR Rail pass from 11th — 18th will probably serve you well.

It sounds like all you would need is a 7-day rail pass, as long as you can make it to Kyoto within that 7-day window. Note, JR Rail passes, as mentioned, do NOT cover Nozomi or Mizuho trains. NOTE: Between Osaka and Tokyo, and **MOST** of the trains are Nozomi.

Consider going east back to Tokyo to take the new Hokuriku Shinkansen line to Kanazawa. Not only will it be faster, but it is also a brand new line, using brand new trains.

Honestly, I would probably drop Koyasan or Hiroshima. I would keep Himeji as that can be a day trip easily from Osaka or Kobe. Shinkansen to Himeji isn't much difference than the other lines that get you there.

Note: JR pass does NOT cover Nankai, Kintetsu, Sanyo or other private railways.

In the Kansai area, Kintetsu is a much more useful railway than JR for the most part. It's also usually cheaper. You can get a variety of passes that include Himeji castle and all non-JR lines.

Kintetsu's station is in a much more convenient location in Kyoto and Nara, although JR's Kyoto station is gorgeous. In Kyoto I'd also highly recommend the Nijo-jo and Kiyomizudera ( especially if Sakura is blossoming ).

Nara downtown is wonderfully compact and well worth seeing. rent a bicycle. feed the deer. visit todaiji, but also check out the park there.

Also remember in Osaka, there are TWO STATIONS that are NOT walking distance from each other. There's Osaka station in Umeda, which is the main hub for all trains and there is Shin-Osaka across the river which is the Shinkansen hub. If you're travelling to Kyoto, Himeji, Koya-san, etc. you have more options from Osaka ( Umeda ) than Shin-Osaka. Many of them... you guessed it, are NOT JR. The cheapest solution to Himeji, for example, is the Sanyo line. It's also slowest, but hey.... it's cheap.

The best line to take to Nara is definitely Kintetsu. Same for Kyoto.

The only outlier is if you really want to visit Hiroshima. That may tip the balance to getting a JR pass for 14-days, but then you're stuck with only JR trains. If you do this, try to book a Sakura service train from Shin-Osaka to Hiroshima. It's essentially a Mizuho 8-car train ( new ), leaves hourly. If you reserve a seat on a Sakura train ( free with a JR pass, nominal charge without ) you will also be able to sit in wider 2+2 seating, instead of 2+3. They tend to sell out of reserved tickets in advance, but if you know which train you'll take you should get seats a day or two in advance.

NOTE: If you get a Sanyo Area pass, I believe you CAN ride Mizuho/Nozomi service. It only applies West of Osaka though ( or maybe Kyoto? )
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Old Jan 28th, 2016, 11:08 AM
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Unrelated tip: If you can't read Japanese, dedicate time twice per day for two weeks, writing and memorizing Katakana. After the two weeks, do it for at least 15 minutes.

It's not necessary as there are English signs, but it will make your trip OH SO MUCH more enjoyable. MANY things in Japan are written in カタカナ and 90% of the time it will be Japanized English, understanding how Katakana works will allow you to speak Japanized English to Japanese people and be better understood. For three syllable words, put the stress on the first syllable... so not a-ME-ri-ka, A-me-ri-ka. It's not Va-NIL-la, it's BA-ni-ra ( no V or L in Japanese ). Like French, they actually don't put stress on any syllable in the Japanese language, but English speakers putting stress on the first usually is pretty close to a more natural meter and pace.

バニラアイス = banira aisu = Vanilla Ice Cream ( usually soft-serve )
オムライス = Omu raisu = Omelette filled with Rice
カフェオレ = Cafe Ore = Café au lait = latté
ソフトクリム = sofuto kurimu = Soft-serve Ice cream
ホットケーキ = hotto ke-ki = Hot cakes = Pancakes
ストロベリー = sutoroberii = Strawberry
シュウクリム = shuu kurimu = Choux crème = Cream puff

Bread and pastries commonly use the French name.
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Old Jan 28th, 2016, 08:32 PM
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"Is Koyasan a great time no matter what temple you stay in?"

I don't know. The only negative comments I've read were from someone who said that she didn't stay in one of the temples most frequently recommended here -- but that doesn't mean that you won't enjoy your temple. And no matter where you stay, you can visit Okunoin (preferably at dusk, and maybe again at down), Kongobuji, etc., and you will see some spectacular scenery on the way there and back.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4900.html
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Old Jan 28th, 2016, 10:21 PM
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April 11 - go to Hakone
April 12 - Hakone
April 13 - go to Kanazawa - ¥14,380 - good route via Maibara
April 14 - Kanazawa
April 15 - Kanazawa
April 16 - go to Kyoto - ¥6,900 - Thunderbird
April 17 - Kyoto
April 18 - Nara day trip - ¥1420 - special rapid
April 19 - Kyoto
April 20 - Kyoto
April 21 - go to Koyasan - ¥920 Kyoto to Shinimamiya
April 22 - go to Hiroshima - ¥10,230 from Shinimamiya
April 23 - go to Miyajima - ¥410 + ferry fare
April 24 - go to Hiroshima - ¥410 + ferry fare
April 25 - go to airport - ¥ 10,230 - Hiroshima to Shin-Oska

You must mean Osaka Itami (ITM) airport if your plan is to take a bus. In that case, you should get the bus from Shin-Osaka, not Osaka station.

If you mean Osaka Kansai (KIX) airport then you should just connect at Shin-Osaka to a limited express train to KIX (from Hiroshima to KIX would be ¥12,050.
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Old Jan 29th, 2016, 08:54 AM
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That's ¥44,900

If you are staying at the Crowne Plaza in Hiroshima then the aquanet boat is more convenient for getting to Miyajima. http://www.aqua-net-h.co.jp/en/heritage/terminal.html

It is about 8 min between the hotel and the Motoyasubashi Pier http://tinyurl.com/zflmoa7
or you could take the street car to Genbaku Dome and then walk downriver to the pier.
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Old Jan 29th, 2016, 09:26 AM
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>>Question: I’m confused by the Hakone Pass. Are there two levels of it? I am not going round-trip to Tokyo. But I do intend to do the whole circuit the next day with lake trip, etc.

1) You can buy 3-day pass and leave from Shinjuku for 5,640 yen. This includes a) the area pass for travel in the Hakone pluse b) roundtrip between Tokyo and Hakone on Odakyu trains.

2) Or you can buy the 3-day pass in the Hakone area for 4,500 yen. This is only for the Hakone area travel.

The difference is only 1,140 yen and is a great bargain even though you won't use the return to Tokyo. A one-way fare on JR is going to be more than that.

If you get a 14-day JR pass then you want it to end on the 25th. The first day of validity would thus be the 12th, so you can't use it to get to Hakone.

So, get the 3-day pass from Shinjuku. I recomend paying the extra 890 yen limited express surcharge to take the Romance Car from Shinjuku to Hakone-Yumoto.
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Old Feb 5th, 2016, 09:46 AM
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Mrwunrfl: thank you so much for your kind help. Bluemeans go, thank you too (it looks like your advice will come in handy if it turns out the JR Rail pass does not save me much money).

From the fares that you posted for my itinerary from April 12-25, the fares that I would pay separately add up to virtually the same amount as the 14-day JR Rail pass. But I have some questions below, and from what I've found I think the total fare paid individually would be even higher. So that would mean I SHOULD get the rail pass.

On hypermedia, I did uncheck the box for Nozomi and Mizuho trains so Im hoping I'm just getting trains where I can actually use the JR Rail Pass. (Thank you Reading54!)

However, one big possible fly in ointment: is a JR Rail Pass different from a JR Sanyo Sanin Area Pass (previously the JR West Sanyo Pass)? That would be the Hiroshima area. If I can't use the JR Rail Pass for Koyasana-Hiroshima and Hiroshima-KIX, then it wouldn't make sense to buy it. I was under the impression that the JR Rail Pass covered the whole country, but now I'm wondering.

Some questions:

1. Between Hakone and Kanazawa, the two Shinkansens via Tokyo seem faster than the Maibara you suggested. Is there a reason to go via Maibara? Both options SEEM to be JR Rail pass options. The 2 shinkansens are 3000 more yen i think but that would be ok if i had the pass I guess.

2. To get from Kyoto to Koyasan, I would have to go beyond SHINIMAMIYA to Koyasan. So I'm seeing that continuing on via GOKURAKUBASHI the fare would be more than the 920 yen you had listed. It would be 2190 yen (option 1) or 3790 yen (option 2). Am I interpreting something incorrectly? (Highly likely!)

3. From Koyasan to Hiroshima, I am seeing, instead of seeing the 10,230 yen on your list just to Shinimamiya, I am seeing, to Hiroshima, 11,770 yen (for option 1 via SHIN-OSAKA) or 11,490 yen (option 2, via JR Rapid Service lines).Or are you thinking there's some other way I should get to and from Koyasan from Shinimamiya besides the train?

4. Hyperdia indicates that between Hiroshima and Miyajima It's 590 yen, which I think means for the JR Sanyo line train AND the ferry. I hope.

5. I now see the same fare as you from Hiroshima to KIX, 12,050 yen. I finally figured out that in Hyperdia you have to enter "KansaI' instead of any Osaka options to get the correct route. Thank you for alerting me to my problem thinking! Yes, I should not be taking a bus, as you pointed out.



.
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Old Feb 5th, 2016, 03:05 PM
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1. Between Hakone and Kanazawa,
Going via Maibara was your idea and it works, it is good. Going via Tokyo would be better, depending on the connection you make.

2. To get from Kyoto to Koyasan
There are many routes that you can take for this. I chose Shinimamiya because it has JR and Nankai Railway stations. Looks like Namba is another.

3. From Koyasan to Hiroshima
... some other way I should get to and from Koyasan from Shinimamiya besides the train?

No, you'll take trains and cable car to get to/from Koyasan, only it won't be JR. The Nankai transport isn't covered by the JR Pass.

4. ... JR Sanyo line train AND the ferry
Yes, 410 train and 180 for the ferry

I agree that you should get a 14-day JR Pass. You can do the exchange at JR Odawara staton on the 13th.
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Old Feb 5th, 2016, 03:51 PM
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1. and going via Maibara could be a bad idea, depending on the connection. 220 minutes to over 5 hours
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Old Feb 5th, 2016, 04:05 PM
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"Is a JR Rail Pass different from a JR Sanyo Sanin Area Pass (previously the JR West Sanyo Pass)?"

JR Pass is national, see http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361.html
You must purchase a JR voucher before arriving in Japan, then you exchange the voucher to a JR Pass in Japan. (The name spelling on the voucher must match that of your passport.)

JR Sanyo Sanin Area Pass is a regional pass, it covers a smaller area, cost less than a JR Pass, and you may purchase it after arriving in Japan. See http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_sanyo_sanin.html
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Old Feb 5th, 2016, 11:50 PM
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JR Pass does cover the whole country but only routes operated by Japan Rail (and perhaps some that they've got a deal with). Some of the routing to Koyasan is run by a different operator, and is not covered by JR Passes.
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Old Feb 6th, 2016, 08:19 AM
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2. To get from Kyoto to Koyasan

I forgot to give you this link which describes a pass that you can use and has a map:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_012.html

Am not sure how useful the Limited Express Version of the pass is given that I could find only 4 Ltd Exp trains per day.
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