Japan Trip 3 - Initial Loose Planning

Old Jun 28th, 2015, 05:22 AM
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Japan Trip 3 - Initial Loose Planning

Hey Folks

My plan is to head back to Japan next spring for our third trip, hopefully for at least three weeks, possibly for four. I'd very much love to see sakura at its peak but don't want to follow it for the entire itinerary as I think the crowds and the higher prices may get too much.

The most urgent aspect is to pin down dates, as I want to book airmile tickets again so need to book pretty soon, from previous experience. We could look at going into any international airport, or even open jaw. But want to pin this down soon, even if itinerary isn't sorted.

On our first trip we visited Tokyo (start and end), Takayama (for the autumn festival), Nara, Kyoto, Osaka, Koyasan and Hiroshima/ Miyajima. That was a 17 night itinerary in Sept/ Oct 2012.

On our second trip in Oct/ Nov 2013 we had 19 nights of which a couple were in Tokyo, 6 in Kyoto, a couple in Osaka and then an 8 night Kyushu trip starting in Kumamoto and self-driving. Our overnights were Kumamoto, Kurakawa Onsen, Yufuin and Fukuoka (2 nights each) but we also visited Aso, the Buddhas in Usuki, Takachiho Gorge and the reclining Buddha at Nanzō-in Temple near Fukuoka.

I think we'd like to go back to Kyoto, there's still plenty we haven't seen and I'm thinking maybe a self-catering apartment or a machiya...

We haven't been to either Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa.

I've previously looked loosely at Tohoku / Hokkaido. Or we could look at Chubu & Hokuriku / Tohoku. Or maybe Shikoku / Chugoku. Or we could do southern Kyushu plus Okinawa, though we're not beach lovers so I'd need to research more on whether that would be a good fit for us.

I'm at that stage of needing some friendly nudging and maybe having some questions thrown at me that may help me narrow down.

I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest.

THANK YOU so much!
Kavey


I'd like to include self-drive again, provided it's in a similarly rural region with quiet roads, like Kyushu. Am happy to use trains for the rest.
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Old Jun 28th, 2015, 09:03 AM
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We haven't traveled as extensively in Japan as you have, but we did visit both Kanazawa and Hakone.

In Kanazawa, we stayed in a machiya arranged by KimJapan who is a travel agent in Kanazawa [email protected] She was just marvelous! We very much enjoyed the machiya. She may well be able to book one for you in Kyoto as well. Whether you like Hakone will depend a lot on the weather. We had absolutely spectacular views of Fuji-san and we stayed in a lovely place - the Hyatt. Not at all a "corporate hotel" experience, it was just fabulous. We'd go back in a heartbeat.

Our photos of these two places might be helpful in your decision-making http://www.marlandc.com/Japan-2013

Happy planning! We had the koyo for our first visit and look forward to planning a second visit to see the sakura.
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Old Jun 28th, 2015, 10:32 AM
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I envy you your trip, Kavey -- I know it will be wonderful!

"We haven't been to either Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa."

I haven't been to Hakone.

I really enjoyed Nikko and thought it much better suited to an overnight than to a day-trip. That gives you time to see Kegon-no-Taki and a bit of Lake Chuzenji.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3812.html

And I adored Kanazawa. I gave it less than 2 days, and wish I had given it at least 3 full days if not more.
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Old Jun 28th, 2015, 12:39 PM
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We visited Hakone as a day trip from Tokyo, leaving early in the morning via the Romance Car and returning by 8PM for dinner. This worked well for us. We spent 3 days in Kanazawa and loved being there, despite the rain for half of the time. We went to the garden in Kanazawa on 2 separate occasions. Be prepared for lots of walking. The gardens are extensive and beautiful. There are some interesting museums and neighborhoods in Kanazawa as well. We have not been to Nikko, but hope to go on our next trip to Japan.
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Old Jun 28th, 2015, 09:34 PM
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Thank you kind friends, a good start to get my research going.
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 11:16 AM
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If planning for next year 2016 in Japan spring very much keep in mind the El Nino that is happening in the Pacific as we type and the effect it will have on the season...

A machiya in Kyoto is a real plus and one ideally located is even better. As you know we used Avi and Wendy who can be contacted here:
https://www.kyotomachiyastay.com/index.php/en/

I have written reports on starting in the south of Japan and ending up in northern part of Japan during the cherry blossoms. Please check them out. Staying in rural areas and more mountainous regions during the blossom season will get you better pricing and still keep you a train ride away from blossom viewing if you want. I can't impress upon you enough how much more scenic Northern Tohoku is and how a stop off at places like Yamadera, Tazawako, Towadako, Matsushima and others are a must to a Japan traveler. Good luck!

Aloha!
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 12:40 PM
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Brilliant, thanks HT!

Can I be cheeky and ask if you have your trip reports bookmarked and could possibly give a list of direct links? No worries if not. x
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 02:20 PM
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http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ossom-tour.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...y-blossoms.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...m#last-comment
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 08:50 PM
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>> Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa ... Tohoku / Hokkaido. Or ... Chubu & Hokuriku / Tohoku. Or maybe Shikoku / Chugoku. Or we could do southern Kyushu plus Okinawa,

That means you want to go to Japan, just maybe not San-in, Kansai, or Kanto regions.
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 09:34 PM
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Yeah, MrWunrfl you've nailed it, though I would like to go back to Kyoto for a week, so Kansai is likely in!
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 09:54 PM
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Kavey,
So glad your going to be able to return to Japan for a springtime trip.
I'm currently working on our return trip as well and will post the rough itinerary of where we would like to go with the intention you might have similar interests.

If you do arrive in Tokyo, going to Nikko would be easy.
I believe we stayed in Tokyo a few days on arrival, then to Nikko for two nights and our next leg took us all the way to Kagoshima, stopping in Tokyo only to change trains, all with the rail pass.
I agree with kja that an overnight in Nikko is preferable. Nothing like being able to get up early and stay late to be able to walk through the sights uncrowded that will be teeming after 10:00. I'd go further to say that a stay at the Kanaya Hotel is worth it as part of the Nikko experience , a historic building quite close to the bridge and entrance. The trip up to the lake, falls and wetlands was a good outing for us the second day.
Hakone is a lot of fun and easily accessible from Tokyo
We stayed at the Fujiya, another historic old hotel and did the standard circuit.
Right now volcanic activity has closed some Hakone areas
Kanazawa now more easily accessed by train from Tokyo.
So Tokyo / Nikko / Kanazawa / Fukui to see Eiheiji?........., coastline by car through Tottori and Shimane, Mt Daisen/Matsue/Izumo Shrine/ Iwami Ginzan Silver Mine/Hagi/Nagasaki. then back to rail for Kyoto and departure?Then again you could head north from Kanazawa....
These are some ideas for an itinerary. You'll h ave to coordinate these sights with the sakura season, late mid or early.
Weather will be warmer south which is a consideration.
A blog I follow that gives a lot of travel cultural information is More Glimpses of Unfamiliar Japan
http://ojisanjake.blogspot.com/
Looking forward to seeing how your trip shapes up
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Old Jun 29th, 2015, 09:57 PM
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"I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest."

Consider planning a southward route.
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Old Jul 5th, 2015, 04:01 AM
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I've got some grouped places I am attracted to, many from HT's reports...

* Hakodate
Sapporo
--
Hirosaki (if we can time it right)
Kakunodate
Tsuru-no-yu Onsen
Other Tohoku places TBC
--
* Kanazawa
Gokayama or Shirakawa-go (perhaps combine with return to Takayama)
--
* Nikko
Mashiko (for pottery)
Karuizawa (this one dependent on a potential invitation)
--
Tokyo
Kawagoe
Kamakura
* Hakone
--
Chugoku region (still to read more / identify potential stops)
--
Shikoku region (thus far, only identified return to Miyajima + Matsuyama but not read much yet)

With four weeks to play with, and knowing that we prefer not to pack too much into any given day, we are happy on trains, trams, buses or to self-drive, whatever is best for a particular area...

... would anyone have a stab at potential itineraries? Not including the entirety of the above, I think that would be too much. I'd say it would be either Hokkaido plus a couple of places in either Chugoku or Shikoku or we could skip Hokkaido and do a few more nights in Chugoku and/or Shikoku.

And HT I know you have a huge personal interest in meteorology, and that you therefore study global currents, wind, etc movements and identify potential impacts on weather patterns. I'd be grateful for your input on hitting cherry blossom. Obviously, I'd never hold you responsible if we miss them, but given that the Japanese don't release their forecasts for next spring for ages yet, any potential headsup from a Japan-traveller that I trust would be enormously welcome. Could do Skype chat some time if that would be easier...
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Old Jul 5th, 2015, 04:03 AM
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(I've missed Kyoto out because although I'm drawn to returning there, I don't know that it makes the most sense for this trip given that we did almost a week there first trip and same again second trip and there's so much more to see in the rest of Japan).
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 11:46 AM
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Right, so here is where I'm at now...

I can't find any information that would allow me to guestimate whether koyo might be earlier or later than usual in 2016, or none that I'm able to comprehend anyway, so I'm going to have to base on this year's timetable...

That gives me a two week window of last week March first week of April for peak viewing in Central Japan -- Tokyo Kyoto areas and between.

So if I schedule a four week trip across last two weeks of March and first two weeks of April, going North to South, I have a good chance of hitting the peak in one location or another.

Upsides of that schedule are that it's well ahead of Golden Week.

Downsides are that it may be really rather cold up in Northern Japan, and presumably, correspondingly shorter/ darker days as well?

If we start in Hokkaido:

Penultimate week of March - Hokkaido
Last week of March - Tohoku / Kanazawa
First week of April - Tokyo environs (Nikko/ Hakone etc)
Second week of April - TBC (Kyoto, or skip Kyoto and continue South)

IF Koyo is to 2015 timings, we have zero chance in Hokkaido and Kanazawa but decent chance in Tokyo environs, possibly tail end of blossoms in last week.

If Koyo is earlier than 2015 then we could see it in Kanazawa but not in Tokyo.

If Koyo is later than 2015 then we might see it in that second week of April when we're either in Kansai or a bit further south.

Is this how I should be thinking or am I completely losing the plot?

The other potential itinerary might be:

Penultimate week of March - Tohoku / Kanazawa
Last week of March - Tokyo environs (Nikko/ Hakone etc)
First week of April - Kansai
Second week of April - Further South TBC

So I'd need to do similar calc on that as I did above...

(HT, you mentioned the El Nino in the Pacific that is happening right now, if you have any thoughts on how that might affect the koyo season, I'd be immensely grateful).
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 02:28 PM
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Kavey - I think you are confusing yourself...you mention koyo - that is fall foliage. You don't mean to go in the fall but in the spring for sakura, right?

Assuming that's so as your other posts mention, I don't quite understand why you want to go from north to south in which case you almost definitely will be too early for any sakura up north....wouldn't south to north the same way the sakura bloom more or less be better?

I don't know about ht's forecast for 2016, however, one idea I have had in the past was to review the japan-guide's extensive annual Cherry Blossom reports:
http://www.japan-guide.com/blog/sakura15/
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 04:06 PM
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Mara wrote: "I don't quite understand why you want to go from north to south" -- I had actually suggested that, in light of Kavey's statement, "I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest."
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 05:24 PM
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So you did, kja.....I get it now....

However, I have been to Japan a number of times and have seen sakura in a variety of places - usually the crowds are manageable except in a few really popular places....
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 05:27 PM
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IMO, Kavey should listen to Mara, not me!
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Old Jul 7th, 2015, 10:26 PM
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Dear God. Thats what comes of writing late at night, of course I meant sakura not koyo.
SORRY!

And yes, I've reviewed the blossom reports on Japan Guide a lot, but my thing is if we go South to North and the blossom is running early or late, we miss it along the entire itinerary. If we go North to South, we should hit it at peak somewhere, even though it would be waaaay too early in the north!
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