Japan in September - Itinerary & travel recommendations please!
Feb 7th, 2013, 01:35 AM
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Japan in September - Itinerary & travel recommendations please!
We will be in Japan for 16 nights in September (1st-16th) and I'm trying to finalise our itinerary and am looking for comments on thoughts to date. I know September is typhoon season but it's the only time we could go 
We have spent a week in Tokyo before (2005) and so are not planning on spending more than a day there on this trip (on top of starting/ending there). We really want to do some hiking and so I'm trying to build in 5/6 days in the mountains.
Having ploughed through many existing threads and got many ideas/helpful links, my focus is on managing the first phase of the holiday which is the hiking bit.
The best hiking seems to be in the Kamikochi area, and I fancied doing the Alpine pass. But now I'm thinking that for that first week perhaps we should hire a car to see the mountain area, returning to Tokyo to then catch a train direct to Kyoto. This would give us greater flexibility and avoid scenarios of carrying our luggage on & off buses - which is the only way to get to Kamikochi. Not sure if dropping off the car somewhere other than Tokyo would be too expensive - or whether that expense would be worth the convenience.
So latest thoughts (now changing by the hour!)
1. Arrive Tokyo
2. Sightseeing Tokyo
3. Drive to Kawaguchiko
4. Day of walking, admiring Mt Fuji (too late to consider climbing it!)
5. Drive to Matsumoto, see the castle etc, drive on to Kamikochi
6. Hiking
7. Hiking
8. Drive on to ... ? Somewhere in the mountains, like Kiso-Fukishima
9. Drive back to Tokyo, train to Kyoto in the evening. Or drive to Nagoya, leave car there, train to Kyoto?
10. Sight seeing Kyoto
11. Sightseeing Kyoto
12. Overnight trip to Koya-san
13. Back to Kyoto, sightseeing
14. Train to Hiroshima, sightseeing Hiroshima
15. Day trip to Miyajima
16. Hiroshima to Tokyo
17. Fly home
In my train/bus instead of car version the variations I've toyed with are leaving out Kawaguchiko and head straight for Kamikochi but overnighting in Matsumoto to break the journey and see the castle there, and also whether to do the Alpine route or not. I really fancy doing it but the logistics - with luggage - may be challenging, and then the question has been whether to overnight in Toyama or Tateyama and then head straight to Kyoto, or go on to Kanazawa and then Kyoto (ie one less day in Kyoto, spent instead in Kanazawa).
We are people who enjoy travelling and usually plan full-on trips that take in as much as possible. But I realise that this isn't, say, Switzerland: it's a very foreign land where the trains may also run on time but I won't understand a word that comes out of the PA system, or where to get off a bus! Which is why after reading other posts I'm now thinking about the first week in the car. My partner loves driving, and we tend to do at least one road trip holiday a year.
Many thanks for any thoughts on the itinerary and if anyone has ideas for good hiking locations that fit in with the broad direction of travel I would very much appreciate them.
Angie
We have spent a week in Tokyo before (2005) and so are not planning on spending more than a day there on this trip (on top of starting/ending there). We really want to do some hiking and so I'm trying to build in 5/6 days in the mountains.
Having ploughed through many existing threads and got many ideas/helpful links, my focus is on managing the first phase of the holiday which is the hiking bit.
The best hiking seems to be in the Kamikochi area, and I fancied doing the Alpine pass. But now I'm thinking that for that first week perhaps we should hire a car to see the mountain area, returning to Tokyo to then catch a train direct to Kyoto. This would give us greater flexibility and avoid scenarios of carrying our luggage on & off buses - which is the only way to get to Kamikochi. Not sure if dropping off the car somewhere other than Tokyo would be too expensive - or whether that expense would be worth the convenience.
So latest thoughts (now changing by the hour!)
1. Arrive Tokyo
2. Sightseeing Tokyo
3. Drive to Kawaguchiko
4. Day of walking, admiring Mt Fuji (too late to consider climbing it!)
5. Drive to Matsumoto, see the castle etc, drive on to Kamikochi
6. Hiking
7. Hiking
8. Drive on to ... ? Somewhere in the mountains, like Kiso-Fukishima
9. Drive back to Tokyo, train to Kyoto in the evening. Or drive to Nagoya, leave car there, train to Kyoto?
10. Sight seeing Kyoto
11. Sightseeing Kyoto
12. Overnight trip to Koya-san
13. Back to Kyoto, sightseeing
14. Train to Hiroshima, sightseeing Hiroshima
15. Day trip to Miyajima
16. Hiroshima to Tokyo
17. Fly home
In my train/bus instead of car version the variations I've toyed with are leaving out Kawaguchiko and head straight for Kamikochi but overnighting in Matsumoto to break the journey and see the castle there, and also whether to do the Alpine route or not. I really fancy doing it but the logistics - with luggage - may be challenging, and then the question has been whether to overnight in Toyama or Tateyama and then head straight to Kyoto, or go on to Kanazawa and then Kyoto (ie one less day in Kyoto, spent instead in Kanazawa).
We are people who enjoy travelling and usually plan full-on trips that take in as much as possible. But I realise that this isn't, say, Switzerland: it's a very foreign land where the trains may also run on time but I won't understand a word that comes out of the PA system, or where to get off a bus! Which is why after reading other posts I'm now thinking about the first week in the car. My partner loves driving, and we tend to do at least one road trip holiday a year.
Many thanks for any thoughts on the itinerary and if anyone has ideas for good hiking locations that fit in with the broad direction of travel I would very much appreciate them.
Angie
Feb 7th, 2013, 02:31 AM
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Update: Am thinking that instead of driving to Nagoya or Tokyo, we could drive onwards to Kyoto with the overnight stop off on the 8th to make it a leisurely drive? The one-way fee for the car hire is around $300. Probably more expensive than the train (especially with tolls, fuel etc) but it would make for a scenic drive?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Feb 7th, 2013, 05:52 AM
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Forget the driving between Tokyo and Kyoto and in your case almost anywhere in between. Start by getting a Fodors Japan guide book and reading it. You will understand what comes out of the train PA system because announcements are made in English and Japanese. You will know to get off the bus by simply saying the name of your bus stop to the driver when you enter the bus. They will let you know when you get to your stop. After reading the Fodors guide you should rethink this whole driving itinerary utilizing the train or bus systems and come back for more advice.
There are so many things you are doing wrong in your plan that for a first time poster am thinking this is a set up, but am willing to help.
Aloha!
There are so many things you are doing wrong in your plan that for a first time poster am thinking this is a set up, but am willing to help.
Aloha!
Feb 7th, 2013, 06:35 AM
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Gosh. I've based the first part of the trip on one previously organised by a UK-based company (albeit substituting the driving for public transport), and the Kyoto onwards one based on suggestions from my guide book, Fodors and other travel forums. I had thought it was finally coming together, but apparently not!
I shall do further homework as suggested and might contact the company who previously offered the Alps section of the trip as a self-guided tour and see what they would suggest.
Apologies for coming over as such a joke.
I shall do further homework as suggested and might contact the company who previously offered the Alps section of the trip as a self-guided tour and see what they would suggest.
Apologies for coming over as such a joke.
Feb 7th, 2013, 09:58 AM
#7
So, part of your thinking was to drive Tokyo to Kawaguchiko to Matsumoto to Kamikochi to Kiso-Fukushima. That might work, except for the ban on cars in Kamikochi - but there is probably still a way to make a car rental work (drive from Matumoto to some point closer to Kamikochi and then taxi/bus from there to Kamikochi and back to the car. Maybe not ideal.
You must see something you like in Kiso-Fukushima that you like and I don't know about it. But south of there, in the Kiso Valley is the Nakasendo. If you haven't read about walking the Nakasendo then you should as it sounds like it definitely fits your interest. You would travel from there to Kyoto by rail.
I would leave the mountain driving in the rain up to a bus driver. Use rail to Matsumoto from Tokyo and from Matsumoto through Kiso Valley to Kyoto.
Your other option, leaving Kamikochi, is to go to Takayama (skipping Kiso) and then rail from there to Kyoto. If you can use the car and taxi/bus to/from Kamikochi then you could drive to Takayama. I don't know about driving from there to Kyoto.
You must see something you like in Kiso-Fukushima that you like and I don't know about it. But south of there, in the Kiso Valley is the Nakasendo. If you haven't read about walking the Nakasendo then you should as it sounds like it definitely fits your interest. You would travel from there to Kyoto by rail.
I would leave the mountain driving in the rain up to a bus driver. Use rail to Matsumoto from Tokyo and from Matsumoto through Kiso Valley to Kyoto.
Your other option, leaving Kamikochi, is to go to Takayama (skipping Kiso) and then rail from there to Kyoto. If you can use the car and taxi/bus to/from Kamikochi then you could drive to Takayama. I don't know about driving from there to Kyoto.
Feb 7th, 2013, 12:18 PM
#8
If you are worried about not understanding the train or bus announcements (and most have info screens in English as well), why would you attempt getting on the roads where the navigation, driving on the left, and road signage are much more difficult? It may be rainy/windy and it will likely be more expensive once you pay for the car, gas, tolls and drop off fees.
Japan has a great rail and bus network. It's on-time, clean, easy to navigate, and reasonably priced, especially if you take advantage of regional passes.
In all our trips to Japan, we have never rented a car, and never felt we needed to. The only place I would consider driving would be up in Hokkaido.
Japan has a great rail and bus network. It's on-time, clean, easy to navigate, and reasonably priced, especially if you take advantage of regional passes.
In all our trips to Japan, we have never rented a car, and never felt we needed to. The only place I would consider driving would be up in Hokkaido.
Feb 8th, 2013, 01:10 AM
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It may be heresy to quote from the Lonely Planet guide books on this forum but...!
"Driving in Japan is quite feasible, even for just the mildly adventurous. The major roads are signposted in English; road rules are generally adhered to and driving is safer than in other Asian countries. In some parts of the country it can prove much more convenient than other forms of travel". A full week gives you time to make a more through exploration of central Honshu. The best way to do this itinerary is by rental car, although you can do the entire route by public transport if you don't mind some long waits for buses and trains".
Driving on the right or left is straightforward provided you're in a car with the steering wheel on the correct side: we've lived in the USA and the UK, driven across Australia, New Zealand, Africa as well as mainland Europe (where generally the trains are also excellent - we've utilised rail, car & bus depending on the sort of trip we were making)
As well as not having to haul luggage on & off buses and trains (17 nights in cooler mountains & sweaty towns, coupled with camera kit = luggage) going by car usually gives additional freedoms to stop off at interesting places, to get lost and find interesting places... I appreciate that Japan has excellent rail & bus networks - which is why the second part of the trip makes extensive use of it!
On the navigational front, satnavs will help. I'm an instrument rated private pilot: flying at 10,000' in the clouds is what I consider challenging when it comes to navigation!
I was expecting people to say the traffic is terrible/roads around such & such an area not very good, rain/fog can make driving difficult, X can be a real bottlenecks, avoid driving at this time of day etc etc.
mrwunrfl thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. You're right, Takayama could be a convenient place. My overlooking of cars disallowed in Kamikochi is the real fly in the ointment for my initial plans and this alone could cause me to ditch the driving idea and instead focus my energy on the logistics of a train & bus route coupled with luggage forwarding (something we often do on hiking trips in Europe). That would also open up the option of doing the Alpine route.
Thanks again for your comments & suggestions.
"Driving in Japan is quite feasible, even for just the mildly adventurous. The major roads are signposted in English; road rules are generally adhered to and driving is safer than in other Asian countries. In some parts of the country it can prove much more convenient than other forms of travel". A full week gives you time to make a more through exploration of central Honshu. The best way to do this itinerary is by rental car, although you can do the entire route by public transport if you don't mind some long waits for buses and trains".
Driving on the right or left is straightforward provided you're in a car with the steering wheel on the correct side: we've lived in the USA and the UK, driven across Australia, New Zealand, Africa as well as mainland Europe (where generally the trains are also excellent - we've utilised rail, car & bus depending on the sort of trip we were making)
As well as not having to haul luggage on & off buses and trains (17 nights in cooler mountains & sweaty towns, coupled with camera kit = luggage) going by car usually gives additional freedoms to stop off at interesting places, to get lost and find interesting places... I appreciate that Japan has excellent rail & bus networks - which is why the second part of the trip makes extensive use of it!
On the navigational front, satnavs will help. I'm an instrument rated private pilot: flying at 10,000' in the clouds is what I consider challenging when it comes to navigation!
I was expecting people to say the traffic is terrible/roads around such & such an area not very good, rain/fog can make driving difficult, X can be a real bottlenecks, avoid driving at this time of day etc etc.
mrwunrfl thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. You're right, Takayama could be a convenient place. My overlooking of cars disallowed in Kamikochi is the real fly in the ointment for my initial plans and this alone could cause me to ditch the driving idea and instead focus my energy on the logistics of a train & bus route coupled with luggage forwarding (something we often do on hiking trips in Europe). That would also open up the option of doing the Alpine route.
Thanks again for your comments & suggestions.
Feb 8th, 2013, 01:15 PM
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You would drive out of Tokyo via the Chuo expressway with tolls along the way taking roughly about two hours depending on the traffic. Or you can take a bus from Shinjuku station area(2 1/2 hrs) and rent a car in Kawaguchiko and drive from there dropping the car in say Matsumoto after you are done touring the Alps.
http://tiny.cc/owi7rw
http://transportation.fujikyu.co.jp/...here/01_3.html
There is also a Toyota rental in town and IIRC a Nissan(or was it Mazda) rental next to the JR Kawaguchiko station. You can call the Toyota rental from your home. They have English speakers there who will help you narrow down what you want and give you the info you need. I know the phone number is in Tokyo but they can rent you a car nationwide and help you find the nearest rental station to where you want to pick up and drop off your car.
http://rent.toyota.co.jp/en/index.html
http://www2.tocoo.jp/?file=rentcar_i...&prefecture=19
If it were me, and I know its not, I would pick up in Kawaguchiko and use to tour the Alpine country for as many days as you want then drop of car in Matsumoto and take train from there to start the Alpine Route through Shinano-Omachi and ending in Toyama or Kanazawa. Then train on to Kyoto later.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7550.html
Beautiful castle in Matsumoto, one of my favorite and this hotel is a treat. If you stay here don't forget to ask for a castle view room and make use of their onsen in the basement.
http://hotel-kagetsu.jp/englishtop.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6050.html
You can park your car in the car park outside of Kamikochi and take the twenty minute bus ride into town to visit or stay overnight. Parking is ¥500 overnight.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6040.html
I like mrwunrfl's reco Kiso Valley.
Aloha!
http://tiny.cc/owi7rw
http://transportation.fujikyu.co.jp/...here/01_3.html
There is also a Toyota rental in town and IIRC a Nissan(or was it Mazda) rental next to the JR Kawaguchiko station. You can call the Toyota rental from your home. They have English speakers there who will help you narrow down what you want and give you the info you need. I know the phone number is in Tokyo but they can rent you a car nationwide and help you find the nearest rental station to where you want to pick up and drop off your car.
http://rent.toyota.co.jp/en/index.html
http://www2.tocoo.jp/?file=rentcar_i...&prefecture=19
If it were me, and I know its not, I would pick up in Kawaguchiko and use to tour the Alpine country for as many days as you want then drop of car in Matsumoto and take train from there to start the Alpine Route through Shinano-Omachi and ending in Toyama or Kanazawa. Then train on to Kyoto later.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7550.html
Beautiful castle in Matsumoto, one of my favorite and this hotel is a treat. If you stay here don't forget to ask for a castle view room and make use of their onsen in the basement.
http://hotel-kagetsu.jp/englishtop.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6050.html
You can park your car in the car park outside of Kamikochi and take the twenty minute bus ride into town to visit or stay overnight. Parking is ¥500 overnight.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6040.html
I like mrwunrfl's reco Kiso Valley.
Aloha!
Feb 8th, 2013, 08:26 PM
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> 12. Overnight trip to Koya-san
13. Back to Kyoto, sightseeing
Personally, I would visit Koya-san before or after a visit to Kyoto, but not in the middle of it. I don't mind one-night stays, but I do avoid them when I can!
> 14. Train to Hiroshima, sightseeing Hiroshima
15. Day trip to Miyajima
I was glad that I stayed on Miyajima rather than in Hiroshima, but that's a matter of personal preference.
> 1. Arrive Tokyo
16. Hiroshima to Tokyo
17. Fly home
Have you considered an open-jaw flight instead?
You'll see some wonderful things - enjoy!
13. Back to Kyoto, sightseeing
Personally, I would visit Koya-san before or after a visit to Kyoto, but not in the middle of it. I don't mind one-night stays, but I do avoid them when I can!
> 14. Train to Hiroshima, sightseeing Hiroshima
15. Day trip to Miyajima
I was glad that I stayed on Miyajima rather than in Hiroshima, but that's a matter of personal preference.
> 1. Arrive Tokyo
16. Hiroshima to Tokyo
17. Fly home
Have you considered an open-jaw flight instead?
You'll see some wonderful things - enjoy!
Feb 10th, 2013, 12:47 PM
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Thanks so much for your suggestions, very helpful.
Like the idea of picking up car outside of Tokyo and am thinking of skipping Kawaguchiko and going Kamikochi for some serious hiking, then to Matsumoto, pick up the car and spend 3-4 days exploring the Kiso valley. Drop car back off to Matsumoto to then continue through the Alpine route on to Kanazawa. Will reconsider timing of Koya-San visit too, and look at staying on Miyajima compared with Hiroshima.
Does anyone have a favourite ryokan and onsen they would recommend in any of our destinations?
Re flight: that is the one thing we have booked so no option but to begin/end in Tokyo. Looking forward to the bullet train!
Thanks again!
Like the idea of picking up car outside of Tokyo and am thinking of skipping Kawaguchiko and going Kamikochi for some serious hiking, then to Matsumoto, pick up the car and spend 3-4 days exploring the Kiso valley. Drop car back off to Matsumoto to then continue through the Alpine route on to Kanazawa. Will reconsider timing of Koya-San visit too, and look at staying on Miyajima compared with Hiroshima.
Does anyone have a favourite ryokan and onsen they would recommend in any of our destinations?
Re flight: that is the one thing we have booked so no option but to begin/end in Tokyo. Looking forward to the bullet train!
Thanks again!
Feb 14th, 2013, 05:39 AM
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Thought I would post an update on out itinerary which has changed direction somewhat from our original thoughts, but is now almost sorted...
Day 1 - arrive Tokyo
Day 2 - train & bus to Kamikochi (luggage forwarded to Takayama)
Day 3 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 4 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 5 - bus to Matsumoto, visit castle etc, pick up car and drive to Takayama
Day 6 - drive to Wakura onsen via Shirakawago
Day 7 - drive to Suzu/tip of Noto peninsula
Day 8 - coastal drive to Wajima
Day 9 - coastal drive to Kanazawa, drop off car
Day 10 - sightseeing Kanazawa
Day 11 - 7 day rail pass, train to Kyoto
Day 12 - Kyoto
Day 13 - day trip to Nara
Day 14 - Kyoto
Day 15 - train to Hiroshima, on to Miyajima, (luggage forwarded to Tokyo)
Day 16 - train to Tokyo via Hiroshima
Day 17 - fly home
We should be able to get some nice walking in while on the Noto peninsula. We have a total of eight nights planned in ryokans. Have also checked the tide times in Miyajima when we will be there and high tide will be a little after sunrise (06.32), and again just after sunset (18.48). The moon should be up & shining brightly too (three days from being a full moon).
Looking forward to it!
Day 1 - arrive Tokyo
Day 2 - train & bus to Kamikochi (luggage forwarded to Takayama)
Day 3 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 4 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 5 - bus to Matsumoto, visit castle etc, pick up car and drive to Takayama
Day 6 - drive to Wakura onsen via Shirakawago
Day 7 - drive to Suzu/tip of Noto peninsula
Day 8 - coastal drive to Wajima
Day 9 - coastal drive to Kanazawa, drop off car
Day 10 - sightseeing Kanazawa
Day 11 - 7 day rail pass, train to Kyoto
Day 12 - Kyoto
Day 13 - day trip to Nara
Day 14 - Kyoto
Day 15 - train to Hiroshima, on to Miyajima, (luggage forwarded to Tokyo)
Day 16 - train to Tokyo via Hiroshima
Day 17 - fly home
We should be able to get some nice walking in while on the Noto peninsula. We have a total of eight nights planned in ryokans. Have also checked the tide times in Miyajima when we will be there and high tide will be a little after sunrise (06.32), and again just after sunset (18.48). The moon should be up & shining brightly too (three days from being a full moon).
Looking forward to it!
Feb 14th, 2013, 06:20 AM
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Using this website:
http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/tideshow.cgi
You click on 'select a different site' and then navigate using the world map
http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/tideshow.cgi
You click on 'select a different site' and then navigate using the world map
Feb 14th, 2013, 06:48 AM
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If you want to work out sunrise/sunset times then www.timeanddate.com is the place to look. Here they are for Hiroshima in September:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1
Feb 14th, 2013, 07:12 AM
#17
It's busy. I suppose you checked the temp/precip for your locations for first half of Sept.
I'd probably do like shelly and go from Kanazawa to Hiroshima/Miyajima, despite the lesser moonlight.
Day 15 is at least 6 hours of traveling: ferry from Miyajima, walk to Miyajimguchi station, the local to Hiroshima, shinkansent to Shin Osaka (or other required transer), shinkansen to Tokyo. Add time to get from there to your hotel. Next day a long? flight.
I'd probably do like shelly and go from Kanazawa to Hiroshima/Miyajima, despite the lesser moonlight.
Day 15 is at least 6 hours of traveling: ferry from Miyajima, walk to Miyajimguchi station, the local to Hiroshima, shinkansent to Shin Osaka (or other required transer), shinkansen to Tokyo. Add time to get from there to your hotel. Next day a long? flight.
Feb 14th, 2013, 10:00 AM
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Wow, much better especially if switching Hiroshima after Kanazawa. Perfect blend of car and rail use imho. I hope the weather cooperates with you on this trip. Looks like a great time.
What ryokans are you thinking of staying at and what is your budget for ryokan so we can make suggestions? What nights on you latest itinerary are you thinking of a ryokan stay?
Aloha!
What ryokans are you thinking of staying at and what is your budget for ryokan so we can make suggestions? What nights on you latest itinerary are you thinking of a ryokan stay?
Aloha!
