Is Bali too dangerous to visit these days?
May 26th, 2005, 04:56 PM
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Is Bali too dangerous to visit these days?
We (a gay couple) are planning a trip to Malaysia and Bali in August. I understand that the current situation in Indonesia is very unstable, and wonder whether we should postpone a trip to Bali. (We'd skip Kuta/Samur entirely, begin with Ubud and head out from there.
May 26th, 2005, 06:02 PM
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Thursday, the US government closed it's embassies and consular offices for an unspecified period of time. Japan and Australia (and I'm sure others) enhanced security at theirs.
Is it more unstable today than yesterday? Not sure. Than 3 months ago? Not sure. Over the years, there has been a standing travel warning to Indonesia issued by the US government, the Australian government...and others I'm sure. The warning just seems to keep getting renewed.
With a warning in place, we visited Bali last Dec/Jan. We chose to go, knowing that there was a travel warning. While I wouldn't vacation in Iraq, for example, I wasn't uncomfortable going to Bali. We're planning another trip for next Dec/Jan, and I'm not concerned about the recent security alerts...That's us though.
I'm sure you'll get all kinds of opinions here...what I'd advise you to do is to carefully consider the warnings that have been issued and what others say about them and evaluate the risk for your situation and you...only you can decide if the risk is too much for you to take.
Not even for security reasons, I'd skip Kuta and Sanur and go to Ubud. I'd even venture to stay a bit outside of Ubud to have a more country atmosphere...it's just nicer IMO. I'd also consider Amed and Pemuteran.
Is it more unstable today than yesterday? Not sure. Than 3 months ago? Not sure. Over the years, there has been a standing travel warning to Indonesia issued by the US government, the Australian government...and others I'm sure. The warning just seems to keep getting renewed.
With a warning in place, we visited Bali last Dec/Jan. We chose to go, knowing that there was a travel warning. While I wouldn't vacation in Iraq, for example, I wasn't uncomfortable going to Bali. We're planning another trip for next Dec/Jan, and I'm not concerned about the recent security alerts...That's us though.
I'm sure you'll get all kinds of opinions here...what I'd advise you to do is to carefully consider the warnings that have been issued and what others say about them and evaluate the risk for your situation and you...only you can decide if the risk is too much for you to take.
Not even for security reasons, I'd skip Kuta and Sanur and go to Ubud. I'd even venture to stay a bit outside of Ubud to have a more country atmosphere...it's just nicer IMO. I'd also consider Amed and Pemuteran.
May 27th, 2005, 01:48 AM
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I see Lyndie has been to Burma and so has no problem, apparently, giving cash to repressive governments who ignore resutls of valid elections and who use the money to buy guns to kill their own people; just a humble opinion.
I agree with most of the others that it is hard to say if Bali is less safe than other places. Having just been in Atocha Station in Madrid yesterday, I would have said that on March 24 2004, people in Spain thought they were safe. . . .
I agree with most of the others that it is hard to say if Bali is less safe than other places. Having just been in Atocha Station in Madrid yesterday, I would have said that on March 24 2004, people in Spain thought they were safe. . . .
May 27th, 2005, 06:57 AM
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And DLK let me reprint a post of mine from almost a year ago, and say, that the threat in Indonesia to tourists is as high as it has ever been, the State Department Travel Warning (there is no such thing as a "standing" Travel Warning-there are specific and credible threats to Americans and other tourists or there are not) has been renewed twice in the past several months. That is not the norm. But you of course, have to decide for yourself what sort of risk you wish to incur in your travel plans:
Author: Spygirl
Date: 09/13/2004, 01:28 am
I've been away the past couple of days until just now-and don't know what "incendiary political comments" have been made-but as far as Bali and the threat of terrorism goes-anyone who is contemplating a trip to Bali and Indonesia would be well-advised to take great care in their travel plans there, which includes reading up on all travel advisories put out by State and as added measure for Americans, Australia's travel advisories as well, and to be alert at all times as to what is going on around you in the areas in which you are staying or traveling. The group responsible for the horrific attack on the Australian Embassy-the Jamaa Islamiya -is a branch of al-Qaeda, and they are a grave threat in that part of the world. As I stated on the previous post, the JI bombed the JW Marriott almost exactly a year ago, killing some 10 people, and injuring over 100- pulled a car bomb right up in the Marriott driveway-causing the roof of the lobby to cave in -which is where the majority of deaths occurred. The Australian Embassy attack was preceded by an earlier warning that the JI was threatening to carry out yet another attack on one of the western hotels in Jakarta, so for anyone to say you should ignore that, and go on about your business as if there were no heightened threat of terrorist acts, is being not only naive, but foolish.
Although the JI's m.o. is centered in Jakarta, this group was absolutely involved in the Bali bombing of 2002 as well, and Bali is where the vast majority of tourists go in Indonesia-so one can't say that the Jakarta bombing happened there, and has nothing to do with Bali-and that everything is "perfectly safe" in Bali (an odd phrase that certain posters seem to want to use on these forums despite all factual evidence to the contrary!) The JI is a group that has openly declared that they ARE targeting westerners and western institutions in that country, and unfortunately, they are not the only terrorist group operating in that country with those objectives, JI is, however, the deadliest, and possibly the most well-organized.
And as far as something that was said about Bali being no more dangerous than New York or Washington, well, that is factually waaaay off base. You simply cannot compare the security infrastructure, population, location, etc. of the US and Indonesia when talking about terrorist acts and threats to civilian populations-they are not, in any way, in the same order/magnitude- even with the US at the highest Code Red threat level-you are FAR safer from terrorist attacks anywhere in this country than there.
Notwithstanding the fact that the Indonesian Govt. has been taking forceful steps recently to get the JI and terrorist situation under control, the fact of the matter is, they don't have it in any way under control, and were not, until Bali, even taking the terrorist threat seriously. Unlike in this country and the west, a sizable number of the Indonesian population outside of Bali are sympathizers, if not outright supporters, of certain terrorist groups, al-Qaeda being only one of them.
All I'm saying is that it is exceedingly ill-advised for those traveling to Indonesia to act as if there is no clear and present terrorist threat to western tourists/institutions there, and to go about in such a way as to "forget" about it -given the present situation in Iraq and elsewhere, there are indications that the frequency of such terrorist attacks may well be on the rise in Indonesia, rather than the wane.
Author: Spygirl
Date: 09/13/2004, 01:28 am
I've been away the past couple of days until just now-and don't know what "incendiary political comments" have been made-but as far as Bali and the threat of terrorism goes-anyone who is contemplating a trip to Bali and Indonesia would be well-advised to take great care in their travel plans there, which includes reading up on all travel advisories put out by State and as added measure for Americans, Australia's travel advisories as well, and to be alert at all times as to what is going on around you in the areas in which you are staying or traveling. The group responsible for the horrific attack on the Australian Embassy-the Jamaa Islamiya -is a branch of al-Qaeda, and they are a grave threat in that part of the world. As I stated on the previous post, the JI bombed the JW Marriott almost exactly a year ago, killing some 10 people, and injuring over 100- pulled a car bomb right up in the Marriott driveway-causing the roof of the lobby to cave in -which is where the majority of deaths occurred. The Australian Embassy attack was preceded by an earlier warning that the JI was threatening to carry out yet another attack on one of the western hotels in Jakarta, so for anyone to say you should ignore that, and go on about your business as if there were no heightened threat of terrorist acts, is being not only naive, but foolish.
Although the JI's m.o. is centered in Jakarta, this group was absolutely involved in the Bali bombing of 2002 as well, and Bali is where the vast majority of tourists go in Indonesia-so one can't say that the Jakarta bombing happened there, and has nothing to do with Bali-and that everything is "perfectly safe" in Bali (an odd phrase that certain posters seem to want to use on these forums despite all factual evidence to the contrary!) The JI is a group that has openly declared that they ARE targeting westerners and western institutions in that country, and unfortunately, they are not the only terrorist group operating in that country with those objectives, JI is, however, the deadliest, and possibly the most well-organized.
And as far as something that was said about Bali being no more dangerous than New York or Washington, well, that is factually waaaay off base. You simply cannot compare the security infrastructure, population, location, etc. of the US and Indonesia when talking about terrorist acts and threats to civilian populations-they are not, in any way, in the same order/magnitude- even with the US at the highest Code Red threat level-you are FAR safer from terrorist attacks anywhere in this country than there.
Notwithstanding the fact that the Indonesian Govt. has been taking forceful steps recently to get the JI and terrorist situation under control, the fact of the matter is, they don't have it in any way under control, and were not, until Bali, even taking the terrorist threat seriously. Unlike in this country and the west, a sizable number of the Indonesian population outside of Bali are sympathizers, if not outright supporters, of certain terrorist groups, al-Qaeda being only one of them.
All I'm saying is that it is exceedingly ill-advised for those traveling to Indonesia to act as if there is no clear and present terrorist threat to western tourists/institutions there, and to go about in such a way as to "forget" about it -given the present situation in Iraq and elsewhere, there are indications that the frequency of such terrorist attacks may well be on the rise in Indonesia, rather than the wane.
May 27th, 2005, 12:45 PM
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Only you can decide whether to go or not. As many others have noted, the US and several other countries have long had travel warnings for Indonesia. Things have changed in the last two days as noted by Kim, as there were plans on an internet site to blow up the American Embassy in Jakarta. That's why the US Embassy is currently closed.
That said, would I go to Bali? If I had a trip planned, I'd be monitoring what is happening in Indonesia very carefully. I certainly consider Jakarta to be much more unstable than Bali. I traveled to Lombok in November, having looked at the situation in Indonesia and decided for myself that I felt "safe enough" to go. As we all know, no place is immune from terrorist attacks.
Some people believe you are best to stay in smaller places if you do go. If it's a smaller, less touristy place you are looking for, perhaps you'd be interested in Lombok. I stayed at the Qunci Villas, which is gay-friendly, There are now flights from KL to Mataram (the airport on Lombok). While I loved Lombok, it is culturally very different from Bali.
That said, would I go to Bali? If I had a trip planned, I'd be monitoring what is happening in Indonesia very carefully. I certainly consider Jakarta to be much more unstable than Bali. I traveled to Lombok in November, having looked at the situation in Indonesia and decided for myself that I felt "safe enough" to go. As we all know, no place is immune from terrorist attacks.
Some people believe you are best to stay in smaller places if you do go. If it's a smaller, less touristy place you are looking for, perhaps you'd be interested in Lombok. I stayed at the Qunci Villas, which is gay-friendly, There are now flights from KL to Mataram (the airport on Lombok). While I loved Lombok, it is culturally very different from Bali.
May 27th, 2005, 01:16 PM
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I agree with Spygirl (did I say that
)on this one. There are too many other beautiful places in this world to visit . Why bother with Bali or Indonesia at this time. I know a lot of you out there will disagree with me but that's just my opinion.
Aloha!
)on this one. There are too many other beautiful places in this world to visit . Why bother with Bali or Indonesia at this time. I know a lot of you out there will disagree with me but that's just my opinion.Aloha!
May 28th, 2005, 11:12 AM
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hawaiiantraveler, heavens no. I agree with you on Bali and Indonesia.
I was just curious and thought you might have some expertise in the area and could provide some interesting suggestions.
Its been years since I went to Asia, but I may have an opportunity later this year.
I was just curious and thought you might have some expertise in the area and could provide some interesting suggestions.
Its been years since I went to Asia, but I may have an opportunity later this year.
May 28th, 2005, 12:14 PM
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degas:
then by all means stay tuned to the Asian forum for advise as these people are so giving of their knowledge and expertise. As for me I've only had one trip to Asia so far and you can read my recent trip report if you scroll thru my recent posts. Happy planning!
Aloha!
then by all means stay tuned to the Asian forum for advise as these people are so giving of their knowledge and expertise. As for me I've only had one trip to Asia so far and you can read my recent trip report if you scroll thru my recent posts. Happy planning!
Aloha!
May 28th, 2005, 03:15 PM
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450 people are expected to be murdered in New York City this year...and this a record LOW. http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/...page-breaking2
Is NYC safe? It's all relative.
Is NYC safe? It's all relative.
May 28th, 2005, 03:28 PM
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Cicerone-Myanmar is a whole different `kettle of fish` to Indonesia. I try to make it my business not to judge, where I do not have total knowledge of a country`s political situation.
My husband has lived and worked in Indonesia and has seen and heard what is happening there in regards to terrorism and training of terrrorists. As does all of us here, I have the right to visit whereever I choose and I was only giving my opinion. To compare Myanmar to Indoneseia is just plain weird!
Were you having a bad day?
My husband has lived and worked in Indonesia and has seen and heard what is happening there in regards to terrorism and training of terrrorists. As does all of us here, I have the right to visit whereever I choose and I was only giving my opinion. To compare Myanmar to Indoneseia is just plain weird!
Were you having a bad day?
May 28th, 2005, 03:35 PM
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Sorry, but I might also add that if Indonesia was as close to the US as it is to Australia, those American citizens amongst those who post here, might feel a whole less secure about travelling to Bali. The threat of terrorism is very close, for many Australians. It is a big risk to go there, otherwise our Govt. would not have a warning. I might also add that almost all travel insurance companies will not honour policies for travellers who travel to terrorist warning countries. Please check your travel insurance for this, if you are considering travelling to Indonesia.
May 28th, 2005, 04:22 PM
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Personally I'd skip it, especially after the most recent case involving that girl convicted of smuggling MJ and sentenced to 20 yrs. in jail. I honestly could not see myself going there now for that reason and for the fact that as a tourist I could be a target for extermeists. I must also say that as a gay couple you could be singled out as a target in such a religiously conservative and intolerant society. JM2C.
May 28th, 2005, 06:07 PM
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As an Austrlain posting to a forum mainly inhabited by Americans, I can add that many Australians are very uneasy about travelling to Bali at the moment. On Friday a 20 year sentence was handed down to a young Australian citizen who has been convicted for smuggling Marijuana INTO (yes, that's right INTO) Bali.
Apparently the court in Indonesia couldn't see the inconsistency of bying something worth many thousands of dollars in Australia to sell it in Bali where it would be worth much less. The girl in question had argued that she didn't have anything to do with the grass, that it had been put in her bag by baggage handlers as part of a dometic drug transport operation gone wrong (details on the ABC site: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...5/s1378411.htm).
The case had received VERY widespread coverage in Aus, and opinon polls suggest the 80-90% of Australians believe she is innocent. It's an interesting thing to follow the case. The onus in Indonesian justice system is reversed - it's guilty until proven innocent. The judge hearing Ms Corby's case has heard 500 cases and handed down 500 guilty verdicts. Comments from legal people in Indonesia have been "well, your police in Australia may make mistakes, but Indonesian police don't make mistakes. If they charge you, you are guilty".
There is a very big movement in Australia to boycott Bali as a tourism destination as a means of letting them know that they are entitled to their own system of justice, but that doesn't mean we have to visit your country and expose ourselves to it. Unfortunately this has allowed the usual racist types to come out of the woodwork and cloud the issue.
For me, I go along with the comment that there are plenty of other nice places to visit. Leave Bali off your list. And if you do go, for goodness sakes be extremely careful, and lock all of your luggage. If you can, take only hand luggage.
Apparently the court in Indonesia couldn't see the inconsistency of bying something worth many thousands of dollars in Australia to sell it in Bali where it would be worth much less. The girl in question had argued that she didn't have anything to do with the grass, that it had been put in her bag by baggage handlers as part of a dometic drug transport operation gone wrong (details on the ABC site: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...5/s1378411.htm).
The case had received VERY widespread coverage in Aus, and opinon polls suggest the 80-90% of Australians believe she is innocent. It's an interesting thing to follow the case. The onus in Indonesian justice system is reversed - it's guilty until proven innocent. The judge hearing Ms Corby's case has heard 500 cases and handed down 500 guilty verdicts. Comments from legal people in Indonesia have been "well, your police in Australia may make mistakes, but Indonesian police don't make mistakes. If they charge you, you are guilty".
There is a very big movement in Australia to boycott Bali as a tourism destination as a means of letting them know that they are entitled to their own system of justice, but that doesn't mean we have to visit your country and expose ourselves to it. Unfortunately this has allowed the usual racist types to come out of the woodwork and cloud the issue.
For me, I go along with the comment that there are plenty of other nice places to visit. Leave Bali off your list. And if you do go, for goodness sakes be extremely careful, and lock all of your luggage. If you can, take only hand luggage.
