I've been working on an itinerary for an upcoming vacation in China in either early April, 2013 or late Oct.-early Nov. 2013.
Beijing, 3 nights
3rd night, take an overnight train (so as not to lose travel time) to Xian for 2 nights
Fly to Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong for a 2 night tour
Fly to Shanghai for 3 nights
Fly to Guillin for 3 nights
Fly to Hong Kong for 3 nights
One question I have is, thinking we wouldn't get much done on day 1 in Beijing since we may not arrive until 6 pm, this leaves us just 2 days in Beijing. Would it be better to take a day from one of the other 3 night spots? It seems to me this would give us a mixture of city life, history, natural beauty, life in smaller villages and some water activities to replace the river cruise. Not as leisurely as some would like, but as long as we have 2-3 nights in most spots, my husband would be ok with this and we should get to see some diverse areas of China.
Any comments or suggestions? On the train from Beijing to Xian, I thought I had read that there were 2 bunk compartments with a private bath. Then I saw a reference to 4 bunks to a compartment.
Help with itinerary for 2 weeks in China
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This should have what you want train-wise:
http://www.seat61.com/China.htm
I would suggest Lijiang. It is like Venice, only prettier.
> this leaves us just 2 days in Beijing. Would it be better to take a day from one of the other 3 night spots?
It depends on your interests. I had 6 days in Beijing, and did not see everything I wanted to see. I had 4 days in Xi'an and didn't see everything I wanted to see. And I wasn't trying to see "city life" or "night spots" - I sought out the cultural heritage that has been preserved in and around these cities.
I agree that the seat61 site that MmePerdu recommended should have the info on trains you seek.
Good luck!
I would drop Guilin or Hong Kong altogether and add the days to your first three stops.
Besides Beijing itself, most people visit the Great Wall, and aside from Shanghai itself (which I don't think is worth more than a day, i.e. two nights) you can day trip to Hangzhou, Suzhou or one of the water towns.
Ignore the Lijiang suggestion, it's too far out of the way for this itinerary.
Only certain trains carry the two-berth compartments. I travel solo, so I've always been in four-berth compartments, but I think they're fine. Don't stress if you can't get a two-berth.
There are quite a few overnight trains from Beijing to Xian each night, taking at least two totally different routes. Each train has different coach configurations. I'm only listing the Soft Sleeper (4 berth in a cabin) and Deluxe Soft Sleeper coaches; and I'm only listing those that arrive Xian at a reasonable time and not middle of the night. Also not listing those that make more stops and take more than 14 hours.
Most soft sleeper coaches have 9 cabins in each (36 Soft Sleeper berths, or 18 Deluxe Soft Sleepers), though some trains use double-decked coaches with a few more:
T7, T41, T151: 1 Soft Sleeper.
T231: 2 Soft Sleepers.
T55: 1 double-decked Soft Sleeper. This coach has NINE 4-berth cabins and SEVEN 2-berth cabins. The 2-berth cabins are small and are NOT Deluxe Soft Sleeper, just regular soft sleeper.
T43: 7 Soft Sleepers and 1 Deluxe Soft Sleeper.
Z19 (non-stop): 13 Soft Sleepers and 1 Deluxe Soft Sleeper.
So, if you must travel only in 2-person berths, you can only get Deluxe Soft Sleeper on T43 or Z19 (18 berths on each train); or try to get the double-decked T55, which has 14 berths in regular soft sleeper but in 2-berth cabin.
The train cabin that you are referring to is called the "deluxe soft sleeper". Only available on some trains and sometimes hard to get.
Beijing is the city that deserves the longest stay. It is the capital and has the most history, most museums, most culture, etc... Can hardly be done in less than 4 full days.
You could skip Xi'An or cut days a bit everywhere.
Been to both LiJiang and Venice a few times, I fail to see the resemblance.
JPDeM, many thanks for the last comment. It's an absurd comparison I see from time to time and could only have been devised by a PR person who'd been to neither place.
Well, it's like Venice in that it's overrun with tourists. And there are canals. But MUCH smaller canals. I agree - one of the silliest "Venice of ..." suggestions around.
We took the overnight train to Xian, we were 3 people so we just bought out the compartment, it is still reasonable.
Just remember deluxe is not deluxe by most standards, the trains are disgusting, the bathrooms are awful.
We went to Pingyao on the way to Xian, and by far that was our favorite stop. It is a walled city and we rented bikes and had a great time. We did go to Suzhou and the old section was interesting but not worth the trip from Shanghai.
It depends what you want, the new and modern or old historic, when you decide that it is easier to plan your stops. Do you want to be inside in museums, outside in te historical sites or looking at modern skyscrappers ( Shanghai).
" the trains are disgusting, the bathrooms are awful."
Oh, come now, they're nothing like that bad! It does depend some on which route, but in general Chinese soft sleeper is very comfortable. See http://www.seat61.com/China.htm for photos and more info.
Most foreign travelers find the sleepers (including bathrooms) quite acceptable, at least for the first 24 hours of that train's journey. After that, things may deteriorate a bit. But most Beijing-Xian sleepers depart from Beijing, or not far away, that's not an issue.
spitz - I think he knows nothing about the deluxe soft sleepers. There are only two beds in those so if there were 3 of them they were obviously not traveling in this class of cabin.
Also, you don't go to Suzhou for the "old section" (not sure where that would be), you go for the gardens!
Thanks for everyone's input. My itinerary has been revised. I've been convinced to drop Shanghai and it now looks like this:
Friday Leave NY
Saturday Arrive Beijing - Tiananmen Square / Temple of Heaven Park
Sunday Beijing - Forbidden City / Hutongs
Monday Beijing - Day trip to Great Wall: @ Mutianyu??
Tuesday Beijing - Summer Palace (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)
Tuesday Xi’an - City Wall,
Wednesday Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda tour?
Thursday Xi'an - Muslim St/Great Mosque / Afternoon fly to Jiuzhaigou
Friday Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong
Saturday Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong
Sunday Fly from Jiuzhaigou to Chengdu
Sunday Fly from Chengdu to Guilin - Rice Terraces
Monday Guilin - Reed Flute Cave and other sights
Tuesday Guilin -morning cruise boat to Yangshou
Wednesday Yangshuo - Yulong River rafting /sound/light show / West Street at night
Thursday Yangshuo - Biking / Moon Hill / Li River raft trip or other stuff
Friday Yangshuo to Guilin Airport - Fly to Hong Kong
Saturday Hong Kong
Sunday Hong Kong - Fly Home
I've also decided to drop the train and just fly to Xi'an. We've never overnighted on a train before and I'm not sure it's our cup of tea. I added a little more time in the middle from dropping Shanghai. Wondering if perhaps I should cut one day from Yangshuo and go to Hong Kong a day earlier? Would I want to do both a Li River raft trip and the Yulong rafting one? Thoughts?
I don't think Pingyao will work as it's too far away now that we're flying directly into Xi'an.
I have severe doubts about your first day in Beijing. You will have jet lag. You will be in no shape for what you have planned, even if you arrive early enough for it to be theoretically possible. (Go to the Lama Temple instead.) So you really need another day in Beijing.
You should add at least the Temple to the Eight Great Immortals to Xi'an. Also, don't short change Chengdu. Aside from a morning visit to the pandas, there's the big Buddha at Leshan, some atmospheric parks and temples in town, and ditto mountains outside. (See http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/ for more.)
I would rearrange the Beijing portion a little.
Temple of Heaven is better seen in the morning, preferable earlier than 9h30. The reason is all the retirees go to the park to do various activities so the people watching is the highlight of this place. From there head to Qianmen street.. You can walk up and down the main street then take the small streets on the west side to an area called Dashilar. You can eat in this hutong area. If you still have energy you can cross the street to Tian'anmen square and possibly the National Museum.
Day 2 start at the Forbidden city. when you come out at the north gate you can cross the street to Jingshan park and climb the hill to have a good view of the Forbidden city. then go west towards the lake and work your way north towards Houhai and the Drum Tower. A good place for dinner in this area is Dali Courtyard. Finish the evening by walking down Nanluoguxiang.
Day 3 consider going to the Summer Palace after the Wall.
Day 4 Do what you did not have time to see on previous days because you were tired or go to the Lama Temple.
I think that you have one day to many in Xi'An (I am sure others will disagree).
Don't spend so much time in Guilin, Yangshuo will be enough. No need need to go on the rivers 3 times, it will be repetitive. The best is the bamboo rafting on the Yulong. See videos of the Li river vs Yulong on Youtube.
Add whatever leftover time to HK.
Cut that day in Guilin. The caves are all dead and not worth your time. Use the extra day for Chengdu.
> Tuesday Beijing - Summer Palace (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)
Could work - but keep your eye on the time!
> Wednesday Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda tour?
You can visit these places quite easily on your own; no need for a tour.
> I would rearrange the Beijing portion a little....
With all due respect to JPDeM's experience and insights, the plan he outlines would not have worked for me.
- Like thursdaysd, I think planning to adjust for jetlag on that 1st day makes sense.
- "If you plan to visit the Temple of Heaven on a weekday, it might make most sense to go early in the morning." I went on a Sunday during the late afternoon, and found it full of wonderful people-watching opportunities. I don't know what it is like on a Saturday.
- It might make sense to walk through Qianmen street after leaving the Temple of Heaven on your way to Tian'anmen square, but I'm not sure I would try to do that on such a short trip: I thought the renovations of Qianmen street turned it into a Disne-fied distortion.
- I wouldn't have had time to see the Summer Palace the way I wanted to see it on the same day that I visited the Great Wall (and I went to Badaling, not Mutianyu; Badaling is closer to Beijing that Mutianyu).
I'm not saying that JPDeM is wrong - just that his proposal wouldn't have worked in light of my interests and preferences.
I do agree that climbing Coal Mountain in Jingshan Park for the view over the Forbidden City is worth it if you can fit it in!
And I agree with both thursdaysd and JPDeM that it's worth trying to fit the Lama Temple in to your time in Beijing. I visited it after my trip to Badaling.
> You should add at least the Temple to the Eight Great Immortals to Xi'an
I agree!
> I think that you have one day to many in Xi'An (I am sure others will disagree).
I'm among those who disagree.
Hope that helps!
As the OP is coming from NY, jet lag means waking up quite early in the morning and going to bed early in the evening. Doing morning stuff should not be a problem.
Qianmen is not about Qianmen street itself. The key place to see is Dashilar which is adjacent to it. Old hutongs and one of the oldest commercial area in Beijing. The renovated Qianmen street portion actually has a lot of Chinese restaurants with a great variety of cuisine. Again not on Qianmen street itself but the area on the east of it.
Well, jet lag or no jet lag, unless the OP is flying Aeroflot, I don't see how she's getting to Beijing in time to do much sightseeing.
> As the OP is coming from NY, jet lag means waking up quite early in the morning and going to bed early in the evening.
My direct flight to Beijing from the eastern US arrived late afternoon. I had enough time to freshen, explore briefly, and eat dinner before collapsing. I did get up early the next morning, and took advantage of the opportunity to begin exploring. By mid-day, I was fading in and out. It was several days before I felt I could count on a reasonable level of energy throughout my day. So whatever time the OP's flight arrives, I personally think it wise to expect to lose some time to jetlag in the first day or two and to plan accordingly.
I'm glad to hear there are some vestiges of traditional hutong to the east of Qianmen street - thanks, JPDeM, for clarifying.
You should cut a day from Guilin. do you plan to go to LongJi (rice terraces) straight from the airport? Also, i'd add a day to Jiuzhaigou. One day at Jiuzhaigou doesn't do it justice. The park is really special and to properly see it and wander off the crowded bus stops, you will need two days. Huang Long is about a 3 hour drive from Jiuzhaigou and you need a day for it.
I went to Longji/Guilin/Yangshou 6 weeks ago. you will have the same scenery in Yangshou as in Guilin, actually better in Yangshou. We spent a morning in 7 stars park which was nice, but once we got to Yangshou we realized we should have went straight there and bypassed Guilin. i second the Yulong river rafting. We also took a bamboo raft on the Yulong River and at points had the entire river to ourselves! It was a great, relaxing way to enjoy Yangshou without loud boats of tourists.
Thanks so much for everyone input! Our flight isn't set for sure, but it looks like we may arrive at 1:45 pm. I thought we might have time just to look at Tian'anmen Sq. and the park but have moved stuff around a bit per various suggestions.
I saw comments that Mutianyu might be a better spot to view the Wall because it was less crowded. And that there is a cable car there which sounds like it might make it less strenuous to see some of the Wall.
Saturday Arrive Beijing - Lama Temple
Sunday Beijing - Temple of Heaven Park / Qianmen St. and east / Dashilar (hutong) / Tiananmen Sq.
Monday Beijing - Day trip to Great Wall: @ Mutianyu or Badaling / Summer Palace
Tuesday Beijing - Forbidden City (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)
Does this seem doable, allowing to see some of the major highlights?
Then the next part. I added the Temple in Xi'an. We'll arrive in Jiuzhaigou at 8:50 am and there is a 2 day tour for both Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong. Hopefully we'll get to see at least a good part of each in those 2 days.
I added 1 night in Chengdu. I deleted the Reed Flute cave day in Guilin and then added 1 day to Hong Kong. Does the Yangshuo part make sense or still too many boat trips or 1 too many days? Though we have a boat and love the water. I just don't want to do something that is too repetitive. I figure with an extra day in Hong Kong we can also see Macau.
Tuesday Xi’an - City Wall / Great Mosque / Muslim St.
Wed. Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda / Temple to the Eight Great Immortals
Thursday Morning fly to Jiuzhaigou
Friday Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong
Saturday Fly from Jiuzhaigou to Chengdu
Saturday Chengdu: Pandas / Buddha @ Leshan, etc.
Sunday Fly from Chengdu to Guilin - tour of Rice Terraces; check into a hotel
Monday Guilin -morning cruise boat or bus to Yangshou; West Street at night
Tuesday Yangshuo - Yulong River rafting /sound/light show /
Wed. Yangshuo - Biking / Moon Hill / Li River raft trip ??
Thursday Yangshuo to Guilin Airport - Fly to Hong Kong
Friday Hong Kong
Saturday Hong Kong
Sunday Hong Kong - Fly Home
> Saturday Arrive Beijing - Lama Temple
Sunday Beijing - Temple of Heaven Park / Qianmen St. and east / Dashilar (hutong) / Tiananmen Sq.
Monday Beijing - Day trip to Great Wall: @ Mutianyu or Badaling / Summer Palace
Tuesday Beijing - Forbidden City (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)
Could work, but keep your eye on the time. Given that your energy levels might dip unexpectedly (due to jet lag) and that you are trying to see a lot in your limited time in Beijing, it might make most sense to come prepared with several options so you can make the most of your time. For example, if you arrive in Beijing at 1:45 p.m. on a Sunday, you very well might have time for the Temple of Heaven and Tiananmen that day, and if you do have time, that would make more sense to me than devoting the rest of that day to the Lama Temple. And whatever time your flight to Xi'an is, it might make sense to plan on something for that day that is likely to allow you plenty of time, since you'll have to pack, check out, get to wherever and back to your hotel to claim your baggage before heading to the airport in plenty of time for your flight.
> Tuesday Xi’an - City Wall / Great Mosque / Muslim St.
Wed. Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda / Temple to the Eight Great Immortals
Again, potentially do-able, but some of these things will close earlier than others, and it might serve you well to plan for various options to make the most of your very limited time in Xi'an. For example, you can probably access the City Wall after many of your other intended destinations close, so it might not make sense for that to be your first order of business.
Hope that helps!
>>>>>Sunday Fly from Chengdu to Guilin - tour of Rice Terraces; check into a hotel
Monday Guilin -morning cruise boat or bus to Yangshou; West Street at night
Tuesday Yangshuo - Yulong River rafting /sound/light show /
Wed. Yangshuo - Biking / Moon Hill / Li River raft trip ??
Thursday Yangshuo to Guilin Airport - Fly to Hong Kong>>>>>>>>
Are you planning to spend Sunday night at Long Ji (the rice terraces)? The drive from Guilin to the rice terraces is on a narrow, winding road - about 2.5 hours. From Long Ji to Yangshou is about 3.5 hours, so unless you really want to do the Guilin to Yangshou cruise, you can have the driver take you directly to Yangshuo for an extra 100 - 150 RMB.
I don't think you need 3 boat trips - the yulong river bamboo rafting and Li River are very different, so I'd keep those two. Moon Hill is a lovely short climb but one tip - bring lots of bug spray!! Good bug spray from wherever you are coming from. I had some organic bug spray (that didn't work) and had lots of bad bites to prove it...
Also on Thursday morning, after you fly to Jiuzhaigou, do Huanglong first. It is closer to the airport and in the other direction from Jiuzhaigou. A driver from the airport can take you there and keep your luggage and wait for you, and then can take you to the Jiuzhaigou area (3 hours away at least).
I admire your research and planning. It will be a great trip.
What works well, I find, is to always have a sidebar list of options for when Plan A cannot be implemented. For example, I look at day 1 and worry about whether you really have time for a visit to the Lama Temple. (Someone correct me but doesn't it close at 4:00 or 4:30?) Depending on your arrival time in the afternoon at Beijing Capital, the length of the immigration lines, etc., and especially the location of your hotel, this plan may work fine or may not work at all. Beijing is so enormous that you will not only require time to get to your hotel and check in, you may need substantial cross-town travel time to get to the Lama Temple. Then you need some reasonable time to stroll through the many couyards of the temple.
If you are on the United flt from Newark that arrives at 1:45 pm, and if your hotel is not far distant from Yonghegong (Lama Temple), and your energy level is up to it, then you should be able to swing it if you are disciplined about dropping your luggage in your room and heading out quickly. If you arrive in Beijing later in the afternoon and your hotel is far from the temple, you will want to brainstorm other plans.
I hope that you do get to see it. Even though it is usually mobbed, it is an entrancing place. The Confucius Temple and old Imperial Academy more or less across the street is also very appealing.
So late to the party, I probably should not raise this next issue, but since the point of these boards is to sample a wide range of advice, here goes. IF you are getting a visa for this trip (maybe you are not), would you not want to sample Shanghai or elsewhere in the PRC and save Hong Kong, which likely does not require a visa for you, for another trip? I am a huge fan of Hong Kong. It is one of my favorite cities. I just wondered whether you wanted to see more while you have the visa. Maybe it is not an issue. Come to think of it, I don't know whether this is a first trip or return, nor whether you are getting a single entry or mltiple entry visa so I'll drop it. Just couldn't help wondering though.
Again, this will be a wonderful trip. You are starting your planning early so you have plenty of time to generate alternatives once the master plan is in place.
If time allows, don't go to Huanglung immediately after arriving at airport, because of altitude. Visit Jiuzhaigou first, which is at a lower altitude. I've heard too many stories of visitors getting sick and unable to enjoy the whole Jiuzhai/Huanglong trip because the tour company decides to save time.
rkkwan has a good point about Huanglong that I forgot about. it is at a very high altitude - I think the top is about 14,000 feet up. I was fine there, but my husband, who is asthmatic, got a bit short of breath. However, they do sell inexpensive oxygen once you take the cable car up.