Kathie - given how much you like Angkor, I would be inclined to plan for three days rather than three nights in Bagan! And take the time from Yangon, you don't want to short-change Inle either. I'll have to dig out my journal to answer the other question.

yea---you are going to do it!!!

i have a driver for you if you need one...

strand is too sterile...

I found the journal. My notes say that the temples on the south side of Inle lake were rather touristy. (I didn't like the cat show!) We went by canoe, not the usual power boats, to a quiet monastery with just one elderly monk at the northern end, but unfortunately I didn't write the name down. The monk was an ex-policeman, and there was a well outside.

We visited Mt. Popa on the way to Bagan from Mandalay, which was the place I was trying to remember. The site is dramatic, but I'm not sure the temple is worth a detour. I'd recommend visiting one of the Nat shrines as well as the Buddhist temples. And take a boat out on the river for the sunset one of your evenings.

My totally unedited pix are at kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/287618 - Myanmar - password myanmar - the best Mt. Popa photo is 353.

Kathie, please keep this thread active. Some of us, the lord willing, would like to follow in your foot steps. What are your primary planning sources/references?

Some friends went to Burma recently and brought back a long string of colorful prayer flags. Some they put on the roof of their house (they live in a rural area so no neighbors to complain) and it looks really cool.

They enjoyed the trip, but said the food was pretty bad. So maybe bring some snack bars and candy just in case.

I only had two nights in Bagan at the AP hotel and could've stayed longer. I too enjoy learning about Buddhism and my guide there, once a monk himself for quite a lengthy time, took me to 3 small monasteries to meet the head monks at each and have a chat. It was one of my more memorable events and one monk was even interrupted by a villager from his meditation in one of the caves to come and meet the solo American woman-I was quite the curiosity! Bagan was a mystical place and if you enjoyed Angkor temples for a week, I think you would love the have more time there.

I really enjoyed the food and had the best mulligatawny(sp?) soup ever in one of the restaurants at lunch. There was an Indian/Chinese flavor to a lot of dishes.

Kathie - congratulations, I am so glad that you are finally taking the plunge.

To answer your questions and offer some of my own thoughts:

While I thought the Pindaya Caves were somewhat tacky (or kitschy, as LP would say), I can't imagine anyone defacing the golden Buddhas in the caves. Did you see this on Thorntree? This is what the Buddhas looked like when we were there:
http://craigandjeane.smugmug.com/gallery/3736104_dbfji#214692151_NJd8h-A-LB
If you do choose to go to the caves, know that we were on an earlier flight than you and did not arrive at the resort until the late afternoon.

While you probably have good reason for doing Inle Lake first and Yangon last, I would suggest doing your trip in the reverse order so that Yangon is not the big letdown it was for us at the end - or at least consider splitting your time in Yangon.

Flights usually do not leave Heho much earlier than 9 AM, whereas you can fly out of Yangon at 7 AM to get to Bagan at 8 AM. This could buy you some additional time there. Two days was enough for us to see the temples but as you know we are not really temple people. While Mt. Popa is dramatic from a distance, the trip will kill a whole day and will not be worth your while. Are you going to do the balloon ride?

The "less visited" Buddhist site that I would recommend is the stupas at Kakku. If you go (from Inle Lake), you will have the place almost to yourselves. The town of Taunggyi which is on the way has an interesting central market. There is also a small winery(!) nearby that offers tastings for a small fee. This would be a full day away from Inle Lake though.

As for Inle Lake, try to do one day visiting the major sites that are close by (yes, even the jumping cats) and then another off the beaten track to the far south of the lake, preferably on a market day at Samka (LP calls it "Sankar").

We didn't think the food was that bad, but then we snack rather than eating lunch. We ate dinner out at restaurants in Yangon and Bagan but had our dinners in at Inle Lake Resort. Someone on this board wrote of having dinner at a restaurant in the small village next to the resort, but I don't think I'd risk it, if I were you.

We were told that for safety reasons, we could not go out on a boat at sunset.

Happy planning!

I ate in the village at Inle Lake (I was staying in the village), but I was told to avoid the Indian restaurant there because they used lake water.

Craig - was it at Bagan you were told you couldn't go on a boat at sunset? We had no problems doing that (early '05), and it was beautiful and very peaceful.

Many thanks to all of your for your input.

Thursdays, thanks for your suggestions. I am inclined to cut a day from Yangon so I can have more time in Bagan. I'll put the Nat shrines on my list. I plan to ask specifically to visit less touristed Buddhist sites at Inle, but sometimes that works, sometimes not. I want to spend some time with your photos.

Bob, opinion on the Strand seems to be divided. The final decision will depend on many factors. Thanks for the offer of the info on the driver.

degas, I'll be glad to post more about my planning references. I have a whole shelf of books on Burma, as I started planning this trip in the early 1990s.

Jaya, prayer flags? I associate those with Tibet and Nepal. Do you also see them in Burma?

moremiles, thanks for your comments, especially about the monasteries at Bagan. I've read your report thoroughly.

Craig, the comment about repainting the Buddhas at Pindaya was in the LP guidebook. I can also ask on Thorntree. Thanks for your photo. I don't want to split my time in Yangon. I haven't yet submitted my itinerary to the travel agency, so I'm not sure baout reversing the order, but I'll expore that. Thanks for your comments on Inle, I have a lot more research to do on that area. In Bagan, we do plan to do the balloon ride.

More info is welcomed!

Kathie - must be in the 10th LP edition just out as I have the 9th - usually I can bring it up on Amazon and take a look inside but they don't seem to have the latest...

thursdaysd - it was Inle Lake where we couldn't go out at sunset

"I started planning this trip in the early 1990s" - lol! Sounds like me and Central Asia. So glad you're finally getting to go!

Three days in Bagan is long.
Tourist can hire horse drawn carts as cab to get around.
Used to cost US2 or 3 for half an hour.

Actually, now that you mention it the script on the flags was very likely Tibetan, not Nepali because their script is the same as Hindi. Burmese script is very round and rolly-polly looking. So, now that I know they are Tibetan, I'm not sure where they picked them up. If I find out that they DID get them in Burma, I'll let you know.

Apply some thanaka (yellowish white substance organic medication} on your face.
Tourist can use it as suntan lotion.
Get a longyi (Burmese Sarong) with Huyat phanat (Burmest slipper and mingle yourself in downtown Yangon.

Kathie,

Just wanted to add a personal tip on walking around in Myanmar. Bring lots of socks or wipes as you will have to walk barefoot through the temples. It can be dusty(dirty) or muddy so bring those really inexpensive socks and through them away after you leave the temples.

Don't forget the balloon over Bagan experience!

Cat12345 - we only paid $15 per day(8 - 9 hours) for the horse drawn cart. A few years earlier it was $10 a day so when did you go to Bagan?

Craig, I just checked the edition of my LP and - oops - it's the 8th. I'll have to pick up the latest edition! GIven that the "fact" I was worried about wasn't in the 9th edition makes me think it may not have been fact.

thursdays, I first planned this trip back when you had to go on a group tour and the maximum number of days you could stay was 7. ASSK asked that tourists not visit just before I did the final booking, so I cancelled. I've made a couple more aborted attempts since then. So - when are you going to central Asia?

Cat: "Get a longyi (Burmese Sarong) with Huyat phanat (Burmest slipper and mingle yourself in downtown Yangon" LOL as a blue-eyed blonde, I stand out no matter what I'm wearing.

Hanuman, thanks for the tip on socks.

Hanuman, I remember you booked your Balloon over Bagan in-country. Craig, how did you book yours?

Kathie - provided I don't break any more bones, and the dollar doesn't tank, I'm hoping for next spring for Central Asia. I think it will work better starting in the spring, as I'd like to spend some time in the Himalayas at the end. I'm starting to work on E. Turkey, Georgia, Armenia & Azerbaijan for this fall, with Iran if I can get a visa.

I didn't go to Myanmar the first time I went to SEA because of the boycott, but a woman I met in Vietnam went, and virtually adopted her driver. So I used him (he's the local in my photos), and stayed in guesthouse type places.

Re: ASSK - I just saw this: www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/05/13/world/AP-AS-Myanmar-Oppositio.html?_r=1&hp - looks bad....

Kathie,

You might find this dining guide for Myanmar interesting: http://www.airmandalay.com/pdf/GF0405_06.pdf

Yes, I saw that, Thursdays. Alas, things don't seem to get any better in Burma.

Hanuman: Like the Massage service in the hotels around Inle lake.
It was US$1 for an hour. I felt guilty and always tipped them more.

Thanks for the dining guide, Hanuman! I know you ate at Le Planteur in Yangon, did you eat at any of the other mentioned places in Yangon or Bagan?

Knowing you, I would think you would want to take one day away from Yangon to add to Bagan.

Hanuman makes a very good point about having wipes for your feet. Watch out for monkey and bird poop and other things at which I didn't dare look to close.

I didn't really enjoy Mt. Popa that much, but then I'm not usually interested in temples.

The best food I had was in the places the tourist is warned against. At my guide's local eatery in Taunggyi there was no refrigeration and some of the food was room temperature. No menu, you just looked in the pot to see what was cooking that day. But it was where I learned I really like pickled tea leaves and chatted with the locals(with my guide as interpreter). It was really one of my best meals in Burma. Food was generally plentiful but bland. The lake fish was some of the best fish I've ever had, till I learned where it came from and what they were fattened with.

A lot of times monasteries serve as the social safety net for the community. You might consider making merit and visiting one. One tradition for the locals is on their birthday they may to go to the orphange supported by the local monastery and serve a meal to all the inhabitants.

we had two very good meals at L'Opera on the outskirts of yangon....its a cousin of the one in bangkok

We tried a few local restaurants in Bagan for lunch and we just pick the nearest or the most convenient since we were touring or going somewhere. The restaurant at the Aureum was good and in our experience one of the better hotel restaurant in Myanmar. The breakfast was very good as well with plenty of choices. Note that we did not get charge(corkage) for drinking our own wines and champagnes in their restaurant and it was the same thing in Inle and Yangon at the Planteur.

In Inle we did have a good lunch at a restaurant on stilts. The owner of the resort(Inle Princess) told the boat driver to take us there(while touring) and then took care of the bill for us!

Yangon was our last stop and the food that we found were ok but nothing really spectacular.

From our trip we did not find any exceptional dining experience in Myanmar and we were hugely disappointed that we could not find the famous large river prawn there. There were all exported to Thailand!

Some small hotels built by the British on the hilltops in Kalaw had pretty good western food, not outstanding, but acceptable considering this is Myanmar.
Servers were pleasant and sincere, not the commercial type.
Pine Hill Hotel and Kalaw Hotel were two of them.

I am so glad you finally committed to visiting Burma (using the British names is my little rebellion against the regime). In Rangoon Shwedagon Pagoda is not remote but worth as much time as you can spare. Its one of those places you feel the aliveness of Burmese Buddhism. Late afternoon put golden light on the shrines and by closing time you can watch the brigade of groups of young women sweeping the marble floors.
The Rangoon monastery Ja Kat Waing houses some 750 monks; arrriving just before lunch will allow you to see all the young monks lining up for lunch and chat with them in the dining hall. You can walk the grounds and absorb the atmosphere, perhaps find a meditation spot.
My notes say we took a 6:30 am flight from Rangoon to Pagan. If you can spare an hour or two, between am and pm shrine and stupa viewing (they are all you hope for and more) the local village of Myen Ka Ba is worth strolling through; the villagers are most welcoming.
I agree with all Craig's comments on Inle Lake and thought Kakku very worthwhile and was to me special. The village of Indaing on the Western shore of the lake is not only a characterful village but contains a complex of shrines and stupas of interest. There are many monasteries around Inle, some with outstanding Buddha images; unfortunately, I didn't record the names of them. If you're doing a private tour, you could request a meeting with a meditation master, lama or reincarnate lama for study and inspiration. I've found these encounters precious.

'Apply some thanaka (yellowish white substance organic medication} on your face.
Tourist can use it as suntan lotion.
Get a longyi (Burmese Sarong) with Huyat phanat (Burmest slipper and mingle yourself in downtown Yangon.'

Well, Kathie - if you take the above advice, you can be sure to stick out like the proverbial sore digit. Maybe it would be easier to just buy a neon sign that says 'Really Dumb Tourist' and stick it on your head.

I'll be interested on your take on Kakku. The inner sanctum has been virtually destroyed by a rich Korean benefactor who has covered the entire thing in bathroom tiles. I reeled away horrified.

Remember Kathie, your interactions with people will be almost exclusively stage managed - no matter what you think. You will ALWAYS be the foreigner. Luckily Burma is so rich in temples and monks and stuff you won't notice the first time.

The only hope you have is in wandering WITHOUT a guide in Yangon... which means you need to stay Strand or Traders. Actually Traders is the best located... but it ain't in the Raffloberaj style. I see you've found the hidden great rates at the Strand. I didn't find it sterile - just relentlessly EMPTY.

But no Pandaw cruise...?

Should I wear the longyi and Burmest slippahs to dinner at the Planteur?

Do you think wearing the "really dumb tourist" sign would be overkill?

Here is more on the restaurant:

http://leplanteur.net/

Kathie, we booked the balloon ride ahead of time through Santa Maria to avoid being disappointed - on the day we were there, all three balloons were full.

In Yangon, Monsoon restaurant was our favorite.

Dogster: Tourist wear pants and sneakers on the streets in Yangon. Locals wear longyi and slippers.
Putting on longyi and slipper is to remove the dumb tourist neon sign.

Thank you! I will wear only longyi and slippahs so to blend in better. It will be very hot in late February....

Cat,

The dogster is a 6'8" strapping blonde surfer from Bondi beach, Kahtie looks like a blonde Viking and my boss Eks's real name is Elizabeth Taylor. No matter how you dress them they will not look like the locals!

lol Cat.

We-e-e-ell, maybe yes - and maybe no...

In my limited experience of Asia - and Burma in particular - the sight of a very large, very white, very fat and foreign tourist waddling around in a lunghi, slippers and the inevitable stupid hat would draw nothing BUT attention - and some considerable hilarity [politely, behind their retreating back].

But I think your suggestions are well-meaning, so don't I'm making fun of you.

I wish I could dress like a local and blend in, I'd LOVE that - but I'm much, much too white to be able to do it. I think tourists generally look a bit silly when they try to 'go local'. It's not just about the clothes.

We are ALWAYS 'the foreigner' in Asia. Always visible in a street full of friendly brown faces, towering head and shoulders like a lumbering white giant in the crowd. Some of us are fatter than an entire Burmese family. We look old, we look ugly, we look very, very large.

Oh, maybe that's just ME... lol.

Sorry Kathie to divert your thread. To get back on topic, think of all the above as Dogster's Fashion Tips for Burma. Please post pictures of your adventures in lunghi and slippers when you return.

LOL!

As always, dogster, I am enjoying your posts.

I do know that everything one does in Burma is observed and managed. I don't usually have long conversations with my seat mates on flights, but had a 4 hour talk with a guy on a flight from IAD to Seattle years ago. It turned out he was the son of some professional colleagues and now worked for the World Bank. Burma was his territory. He had great tales to tell. He couldn't, of course, go anywhere without his "handler" though he was allowed into areas where tourists were not allowed. Everything was carefully orchestrated. The story that struck me most was his story of staying at place at Inya Lake. After dinner, he wanted to stretch his legs so went outside to take a walk along the lake. He said he got as far as the lake, perhaps 20 meters when a spotlight hit him. He waved, turned around and traced his steps back to the hotel.

I don't normally use guides in a city. I have no illusions about seeing "the real Burma" but I do like to have some interesting interactions with locals - ones not mediated by a guide or translator. Usually, I find these kinds of interactions with locals in markets or craftspeople selling their wares or locals at wats. My thoughts about Rangoon were to take taxis as needed. I figured if I stay at GR, I'd just have a taxi drop me off where I want to be and wander as I wanted. Is this a realistic?

Robbie, I appreciate your comments.

Femi, thanks for your assessment that we should add a day to Bagan. There seems to be consensus from those who know us. It validates my sense that we need longer there. And we will plan to make merit at one or more monasteries while we are there.

Thanks to everyone for restaurant suggestions.

Alas, dogster, no cruise this time.

I had lunch at both Sunset Garden(excellent) and Eden BBB in Bagan and also enjoyed Monsoon in Rangoon. The AP hotel was incredibly quiet with maybe only 2-4 other guests but the GR and Inle Princess were somewhat busier in Feb. The boat ride to Indein village on market day was spectacular and I was able to have a couple of short conversations with various locals there.

Dogster:

MM: Do you, or anyone else here, have a link or info on what days of the week that Indein market takes place?

We found out the market days for all of the villages from Santa Maria and structured our tour accordingly. I was not successful finding this information on line, although I did try.

Craig: Am I correct that there is a market every day someplace around the Lake?

We will probably arrive on the first flight of the day from Mandalay and have the reminder of that day;, and the whole of the following day, in the Inle area. I hope that we can visit at least one market on the full day.

Where is Gloria, who used to post so much about Burma?

Kathie - there is a possibility I might be able to help with a connection with a monastery in Yangon - difficult to say given what's happened since I was there. If you're interested, email me at kmwilhelm at ekit dot com.

I'm not sure about everything you do in Myanmar being observed. If you work for the World Bank, no doubt! But I spent two weeks being driven around in a nondescript car in a big loop from Yangon (I actually most enjoyed driving through the countryside and stopping for lunch in the middle of nowhere), and even though I'm not very observant, I really don't think I was being followed! No doubt it also helped that I wasn't staying in upmarket hotels. eks mentioned on her thread getting a quote of $300 for a hotel - the places I stayed were a fraction of that. I didn't try and visit any of the more sensitive areas, though.

eks - I think the chances of there being a market day on Inle Lake or nearby when you are there are good and I'm pretty sure there's one almost every day. We actually went to 4 markets while we were at Inle Lake:

1) Aung Ban, not too far from the airport (not on the lake) on the way to Pindaya - no other Westerners there

2) Indein on Inle Lake - touristy

3) Samka on the reservoir connected to and south of Inle Lake - fairly small but interesting

4) Khaung Dine - this is the small village next to Inle Lake Resort - we went there early one morning before heading out on our boat and wish we had had more time to see it (this one was on the same day as Indein)

There really is no issue in the cities, re: observation by the government. On the well-beaten tourist path it really isn't that Big Brother-ish, of course. It doesn't have to be. You're already being controlled.

If you do get off the track, you'll know it. People will look at you as if you've just fallen from the sky. Little children will run screaming to their parents. The man from Planet Mongo has arrived. Within two minutes the head of the village will hurtle to your side... best you have a little chat before you wander around.

And the knee-bone is connected to the thigh-bone is connected to the...

That's more how it works.

a beautiful (and heart-wrenching) book about burma is "the lizard cage" a great, sad read about the country and its people

Eks,

From memory I recall that the car ride from He Ho airport to the Inle lake pier takes over an hour and then the boat ride to my hotel take another 30 - 45 minutes. So if you have an early morning flight from Mandalay, often there are delays due to fog and the flying time is something like only 20 minutes, you'll not get to your resort until early afternoon. IMO you will not have time to do much after you arrive at your hotel/resort.