Help for traveler who was fleeced in Beijing

Unfortunately, the cost of a tea ceremony depends on the quality of the tea you are drinking. Some types of teas are incredibly expensive. It's going to be difficult to show that you didn't drink a premier cru of teas.

We drank one pot of four different teas at a run of the mill teahouse in old Beijing. Are you saying even that could actually cost $450 US?

I'm sure you didn't actually drink $450 worth of tea. However, you might have to show that you couldn't possibly have done so. Is there any chance that this is a mistake where 450 RMB appeared as $450 on your card? A tea house visit to the oldest teahouse in Shanghai, including "tea snacks" was something like $20 for the two of us. We did go to a tea house in Hangzhou and insisted on drinking the best Longjing tea they had. It was like $20 per person. The tea house waitress, who spoke some English, made very sure we understood that this was very expensive tea before we ordered. (Unfortunately, our Western palates couldn't taste the fine nuisances of exceptional tea. Now we know!)

I wish this was just a mistake. In fact, I wonder if anyone else has fallen prey to this scam. My hotel front desk clerk knew EXACTLY what happened to me. When I told him. And Ironically, I had had a young couple the night before offer me the same invitation to a tea house in Tianamenn square and I turned them down because I was tired. I must look like an easy mark!

Hope your credit card company nails them! Let us know how it turns out.

Ouch. US$450 is more than the two of us spent on food and drink in a whole week in Beijing. I guess the message is that one should ignore all unsolicited approaches from helpful locals offering to take you somewhere in a dodgy unlicenced cab, a trishaw or on foot, handle your baggage, show you some nice art works, cure your ills with traditional Chinese medicines or anything else.

I don't drink tea, Chinese or any other kind, so while the amount is clearly obscenely extortionate I have no idea what a reasonable number would be. I do know that you can buy a 500ml bottle of Tsingtao beer for as little as 2 yuan (US$0.25), if that helps. And you can certainly have a very good dinner for three for Y300 (US$35), wine excluded.

hi scotty
unfortunately this is one of the most common scams in Beijing. You could try asking at lonely planet thorn tree as they'll have a number of Beijing-dwellers. Although be prepared to be flamed.
Also http://www.chinese-forums.com/ usually is quite sensible.
My boss did the same and said he ended up paying 100 USD.

The "price of tea in China" can range from cheap to incredibly expensive however I find it hard to believe that your group could have consumed that much. There may be a creative way to resolve this dilemma (or catch a crook at their own game).

If the amount was charged to your credit card, then the credit card company (or you) should have a way to contact them. Have a friend write to them in English and tell them they were referred to them (probably best not to use your name since you are contesting the charge). Ask them to reply with a letter of their services and prices ranging from the least to the most expensive or request a price quote for the tea ceremony for three and 100g tea that you had. If they reply, you will have documentation to compare with your previous experience to determine if you were charged fairly. If they do not reply after several requests, then you have documentation to prove to the credit card company that you made every attempt to investigate the charge and you were indeed scammed by an illegitimate "business".

Also, if you have the 100g of tea and can identify the brand or type of tea, you can ask reputable tea shops in Beijing what they would charge for it plus a tea ceremony to get a "qualified opinion".

I’m surprised at this happening in Beijing. When I was there some years ago I was under the impression that there was no crime. The understanding was that they would execute pick-pockets and petty thieves every Saturday. These people may need to be more worried about being nailed by a firing squad than by a credit card company.

Scotty - Do you still have the credit card receipt? How much does it say you were charged? If it equates to $450 and you signed it, then you may be out of luck. I don't think being "confused by the good time and exchange rate" will get the bill revised to a lower amount.

scottyP: Please write to me at pnhpublic at shaw dot ca and I will be happy to provide you or your credit card company with a qualified opinion that this was certainly a scam. (I'm the author, co-author, and/or editor of guides to Beijing for Cadogan, Frommer's, and Dorling Kindersley, and have also written on Beijing for everyone from Time to the Sunday Times. I'm familiar both with the numerous scams visited upon tourists, and the typical price of the 'tea ceremony'.)

NB: I will not discuss this matter further on this board (although I'd be happy to do so on The Oriental-List) nor will I reply to email on this matter from anyone except ScottyP.

Same thing just happened to me day before yesterday coming out of the forbiden city. Feel so stupid, someone says lets have some tea, I don't even think the cost could be much, then I get a credit card charge in the hundreds.

There was an article on a Finnish student magazine about the same trick that happened to 2 Finnish student boys in Beijing, Forbidden City, summer 2005.

After the boys noticed that they had been cheated (about 1 day after the cheating), they decided to go back to the Tea house. On the way there, they "hired" a Chinese girl to be their translator.

The Finnish boys decided to pretend the cheating was an "accident" i.e. they didn't "sued/insulted" the Chinese men at all but just said that there had happend some kind of "accident/misunderstanding".

And finally, they got back most of the money, in cash. Anyway, during the conversation, the Chinese girl had started to cry and the Finnish boys were a little bit amazed. Later on, the girl said that the Chinese men actually belong to some kind of "mafia". The mafia men had asked her name and that's why she had started to cry, she was worried about her safe. Anyway, it all ended happily. The boys got most of their money back and the Chinese girl - hopefully - is still alive...

but don't you think it's a bit weird that someone asks you to have tea with them?
I mean sure the girls are very pretty and charming, but
a) if they are offering a tourist service, wouldn't you check the price out or
b) if it's a friendly gesture, wouldn't you wonder why (unless you look like Tom Cruise of course!)
I know in China you can meet incredibly friendly lovely people just by chatting to them but in your home country, a stranger comes up to you and starts inviting you out immediately - would you go?

I might be a bit slow off the mark here, but how exactly is the credit card company at fault?

No one says the credit card company is at fault. But all CC companies have some kind of consumer protection policies. Whether they'll take on this case, I don't know.

As for people falling into these scams, well, I think it's due to two main reasons. One, some travelers still have a "romanitized" notion that China is this long-oppressed country that everybody works long hard hours to make a tiny wage. They didn't realize it's the most capitalistic country in the world where everything's about making money.

Second, many westerners have absolutely no idea that tea can be an expensive luxury item, where prices can be so high. I mean, there's no "super rare coffee bean grown from just a few plants in the world in a far remote valley deep in Columbia" that can cost hundreds of dollars for a cup, right? But such things do exist for Chinese tea. It's a very foreign concept.

yes, good points

there's also an intense amount of flattery going on here... I've heard of this scam many times already, and it's young pretty girls picking on foreign guys.
It's not just in Beijing, but very common in Shanghai on Nanjing Road too. My dad used to live there and he looks foreign (even though he's Chinese) and the girls were always hassling him.

One day in Shanghai's Old Town we gave in to temptation and went into an (overpriced) American ice cream parlour. Soon I became aware of a smiling old man waving at us through the window, and next thing he'd entered the shop, sat down with us and commenced a rambling conversation in excellent English - something to do with sport, a subject of zero interest to either of us. While I wondered how we could politely get rid of him (at this stage I was still thinking of him as an extreme example of Chinese gregariousness) he went into his sales pitch and yes, it was tea. Fortunately neither of us drink the stuff in any of its forms, so it became much easier to give him the brush-off.

You'll also find attractive and well-spoken girls in Beijing's central tourist spots targeting mainly Western males, masquerading as art students and touting their own work. Ignore.

I had the same thing happen to me on 5th Feb. Walking around the Forbidden City I was approached by a young man and his 'uncle' we had a good conversation. There was no immediate pressure to go for tea and they gave me a tour around a few sites before it was suggested. As a piece of social engineering I think it was masterful. Do I feel stupid? Yes! Did I feel I was being fleeced? Not until I got the bill - I was actually enjoying myself for two whole hours in their company. BTW I'm male so it wasn't a case of my being attracted to them.

The cost of the ceremony ($200 plus teas) was charged to my credit card twice but it is so obvious I don't think I have problems getting the second charge removed.

I did check the internet afterwards and found that these ceremonies can be expensive but not as much as I had paid.

I agree with rkkwan "They didn't realize it's the most capitalistic country in the world where everything's about making money."

Also - another one that I managed to avoid is to be invited to an art exhibition in the Forbidden City itself. You will be shown many pictures by a student artist who says he painted them himself and after admiring them will ask you which ones to buy. I just walked out.

I blame the jet lag for lowering my defences.

emvee

scottyP, you should scroll back up, find the post from PeterN_H and take his advice.

PeterN_H, welcome back, it has been a while.

tatersalad, I have never been to China but a friend of mine just came back and was horrified at the number of scams. He was ripped off from the time he arrived at the airport till he left so it seems you may be mistaken about the incident of crime. The Chinese seem to have adapted very nicely to the capitalist system!

That would be incidence not incident! ( by the way great name tatersalad!).

Peter, it's nice to hear from you ! It's been a long time.

I travel to China quite a bit for business. The "art school" thing is a pretty common - summer palace, forbidden city, etc. I'm from the US and we just think it is so wrong to take advantage of a national monument by selling "your wares" in a public place, (Other then the "official" souvenir stand!). But China is all about people trying to make a buck/RMB so the "student art" thing is very common. (And the stuff they sell there is not too special - you can find most at tourist markets).

I have been approached many times by girls (i am a man) who speak wonderful english, they love talking to you, but they certtainly have an agenda (and I don't mean sexual) but some how they want to make a buck off you, it's the way they live. In a way it's the way business is done in china - relationship, relationship, relationship...

Travelers in China should keep that in mind when you are a part of a freindly chat with someone. The biggest thing is that if you are not thinking "wow that is incredably cheap" for any thing you buy, you most likely are getting ripped off. AND - maybe it's somethng that is well worth it to you! Just beware...

Take Peter up on his offer, and keep talking to your CC co. It's hard not to let your guard down when on vacation but scams happen almost anywhere in the world including the U.S. Not the best example but I observed the red-wrapper "Lucky" chinese candy for $2/bag in the heart of San Francisco Chinatown being sold for $9.99/bag to tourists on the edge of Chinatown at Grant/Bush.

This is totally obnoxious and I'm amazed that this is not part of every guide published on Beijing. I met a young girl "Anne" near Tian'anmen Square who started chatting me up. It was an enjoyable conversation. We walked through the square and eventually to the culture street (I was originally headed for the Temple of Heaven). She said she is a math tutor here in Beijing, originally from Xi'an. Anyway, we went through a couple of stores and eventually she suggested we have tea. It seemed reasonable and most everything here generally is (just bought a bag of groceries for 25 Yuan and last week, dinner for seven at a very nice restaurant for 240). When we arrived, we were ushered into a private room- as everyone in their account states, no menu no costs. We had a very nice time for the entire ceremony with a pleasant girl who served us a variety of different, excellent teas. Then, she provided us the option to buy tea and this is the first time money came up. I was getting nervous at this point. Lo and behold, the prices were obscene- amost more than my four-star hotel. Then the bill came- ridiculous. I've already called my credit card company to dispute the charge. But it hasn't posted on my account yet. I'm hoping I can get it reversed at this point. Already embarassed enough.. Paying for this for months would simply add insult. I've been literally all over the world and never been "taken" before. Puts a real stain on the visit. I wish I had known about this through the several guides web and book that I looked at in preparation for this trip.

Update #1: I called the police and went back to the establishment with them and one of the staff from my hotel. There, the manager said that "I drank" so "I pay". They wouldn't take the tea back saying that I should've seen the price list (though the price list I saw had teas at 80 RMB per tasting). Now I'm going to my credit card company.

Update #1: I called the police and went back to the establishment with them and one of the staff from my hotel. There, the manager said that "I drank" so "I pay". They wouldn't take the tea back saying that I should've seen the price list (though the price list I saw had teas at 80 RMB per tasting). Now I'm going to my credit card company. The hotel staff were very helpful and apologetic about the experience.

I'm really sorry to read about this, and a bit surprised. Traveling on my own in China, speaking essentially no Mandarin, I found people to be incredibly helpful - and no one tried to sell me anything. Of course, I'm female, and I didn't spend much time in Beijing and Shanghai. Good luck getting these charges reversed!

thursdaysd - Uhoh... You're giving them ideas. Next new thing will be attractive guys chatting up with female travelers like yourself.

I just arrived back from Beijing, and I too found it very safe for a female, even after dark. Apart from propositions from the "art students" to take me to the museums, which every guide warns you about, there were no worries whatsoever.

Going to any place with no menu is a bad idea regardless of location. My sister-in-law went to supper at a menuless restaurant near Sorrento this summer. The meal was US $980 for 10 people (5 kids)!

rkkwan - since I'm late fifties, that might be fun! Actually, it's interesting that these scams always seem to be practiced on men - you read about them all the time on European discussion boards, although there it's alcohol not tea.

Same thing happened to us Sept. of this year. We are still fighting the credit card company who is forcing us to pay for the charges. Any advice on how to deal with credit card companies with this scam and any consumer protections available? We reported the incident to the credit card company 2 hours after the incident and they refuse to assist. Just foisted the charges on us and said too bad!

Hello Scotty,

Last year in August 2006 we had I think the same experience. During our visit to the Royal Palace we met 2 nice Chinese people and took also a tour to the old city. We end up first in a nice herb shop for some sightseeing and next to it was a tea house. We drank very nice; Chinese Emperors teas ! Very nice, but we had to pay for 4 persons 80 RMB per cup (8 Euro per cup ) times 9 types of teas. We drank them all ! and also bought some extra 100 grams tea packs for our guests. In total we had to pay 300 Euros !!! for 2 hours of fun......
This was for our nice 2 Chinese people a lot of money nd refused their credit card and we payed as 2 rich Dutch tourists. At the end also our 2 Chinese people felt ashamed and did some bargening on a new digital foto camera....

I have a foto of this famous tea house street in old Beijin and my friend has a credit card receipt.

Up to now we do not now if we have been crewed....

Caught for same scam in Shanghai refused to pay looking for 640€ eventually they had to accept 45€ as that was all I had.I had lots of cups of tea and enjoyed the ritual Believe it or not I dont possess a Credit Card.On holiday I withdraw a limited amount of cash each day and leave all cards in the safe in hotel so I cannot lose too much to scammers or pickpockets.Otherwise my stay in China was wonderful and I felt a lot safer in the cities I visited than I have done in some cities in Europe

ScottyP
I would suggest contacting the Chinese Embassy when you return.... and telling them that you plan to take it to the news media in your country. The Chinese government is running nonstop commercials for tourists to go to Beijing for the Olympics, they don't want this kind of thing getting out.

They may be able to pressure the tea shop to reverse the charge. But definitely look at your receipt to make sure that you signed for Yuan & not for US $.

I second AskOksana's suggestion.

Copy this thread and send it to your nearest Chinese Consulate, cc the Chinese Embassy in Washington, DC. (assuming you reside in the US).

Say politely in the accompanying letter that you are also sending copies of this thread to your local newspaper, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time Magazine, etc. Also you will be posting this story on more websites.

In other words, because of this one bad experience, you are going to warn as many people as possible and discourage them from going to the Olympics in Beijing.

See what happens.

Bad publicity like this will spread like wildfire.

They may be Communists, but "face" is still very important to them. Those scammers have brought shame to the entire nation. Let's see if the Chinese authorities will want to save "face" in this situation.

I'm sorry but I'm missing something here....

It looks to me like scottyP was looking for something?

I meet a strange woman in a foreign land, I meet her on my terms. I pick and chose the place, and either she accepts it or not, but there is no way I'm going with a total stranger that I just met to a place she suggests, especially a place where a private room is offered.... YMMV.

Drugged and robbed, tea ceremony, friendly girl at a bar that charges $1000 per glass of wine, possibly killed, is not my idea of fun.

Buyers beware.

To the OP, tuck this away as a lesson learned. Beautiful, friendly young girls in foreign lands are just as hard to meet up as the ones in your hometown.

They may be Communists

- easytraveler, I doubt that I met a single Communist in 3 weeks in China! Only the name remains...

Neil: I didn't mean that there are Communists on every corner, after all, those who are members of the Chinese Communist Party are in a distinct minority - somewhere around 5% of the total population, if memory serves me correctly.

What I meant was that although the new political ideology is Communism, there are still many old cultural beliefs and habits which remain. One is "face". I may, of course, be very wrong in this perception.

if the credit card company is willing to consider your complaint... that is a bonus! they have the power to help you, but are not obliged to do so.

point them to the website of Lao She teahouse if you need to demonstrate some price guidelines

Last month, I actually sought out a classic tea house. Yes there are lots of different teas for many different prices. Reputable tea houses have a clear menu (in english - but you sometimes have to ask) with the prices for the entire ceremony clearly marked for each of the different teas. It is also always priced per person. In my case I had some excellent and very rare Purh-eh tea and the cost was about US$80, if I had wanted to buy some of the tea it would have been around US$700 for 100 grams. So there are lots of scammers but there don't pass up the opportunity to participate in an authentic tea ceremony

Sorry that happened to you, but the same thing almost occurred to me yesterday in Shanghai. I had already read about that scam so I was aware. I still followed them just to make sure because they told me that they had come to Shanghai for the Tea festival in Peoples Square. "It's not far" they said "near the Shanghai Museum" where I was headed. We took photos together, talked about U.S. ( oh yes, they are always students wanting to practice their english) We arrived at a place on a second floor where I was escorted into a room and the host started talking a mile a minute ( I assumed she was explaining the art of tea) I politely excused myself - before any tea was poured. Don't feel as if you have a mark on your back, I was approached a second time yesterday on Nanjing lu. that time it was for an art student. My patience had ran out then so I refused immediately. It is only because you look different and seem to be kinda lost or in awe of your surroundings - unlike an expat. I am a 50 something woman traveling alone thoughout China, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand so I needed to be aware of too friendly strangers volunteering to be helpful. Good luck on your refund.

The Art students approached me in Shanghai. I told them I lost my deedee (little brother) and had to find him (he was back at the hotel). After that I was able to walk back and forth taking in the sights without being bothered because it sort of did look like I was looking for someone.

I was approached in Beijing and in Shanghai for various scams. I learned that the quickest way to get rid of these pests was to point your camera at them, smile, and tell them you want to take their photo..they scrammed pretty fast when I did that.. The other thing you can do is to just ignore the tea/art subjects and start asking them all kinds of questions about themselves..where are you from? When did you come to Shanghai? Where do you live? Or ask directions. Or questions about what you are seeing at that moment..Sometimes you get interesting answers but they soon become uncomfortable and take their leave. Or at least that is what happened to me both times I was approached. You have to turn the tables...

Or reply to their questions in another Western language--like French. Je ne parle pas anglais sent the scammers away--they don't understand and are confused by Westerners speaking something other than English.

linden, that's so funny, I've used that ruse before. And yes, in French. It does seem to confuse them and they go away.

I've lived in China for 4 years. Beijing 3, Shanghai 1. Also traveled their extensively in Sichuan, Yunnan, Tibet, Nanjing, Hongkong etc.

You were definitely taken. Sorry. I am happy to know your credit card company is so accommodating.

The maximum you can expect to pay at the finest teahouses in Shanghai is anywhere from 50CNY - 200CNY PER PERSON. (google 'famous teahouse shanghai' for prices).

(1USD = 7CNY).

So let's see 450USD x 7 = 3,154 CNY/ 3 people = 1,051!!!CNY per person.

Let's see if my Golden Formula for China holds up against your scam:

"Foreigner Price"/ 3 (-35%) = Local Price approx.

3154/3 = 1051 - 367 = 683.15

YES. Yikes. Sorry.

Next time you're there use my Golden Formula - it works every time.

If it's any consolation, the same slippery incident happened to two different friends newly arrived to China - once in Shanghai and once in Beijing.

I've traveled extensively, and I'm not sure I could even make an exhaustive list of the amount and diversity of scams that meets the traveler.

Rest assured it's not only foreigners, local people are always being tested - farmers, and country folk go to the big cities and get taken in a variety of ways too. Their weaknesses include temple scams and taxi scams. As soon as you in new territory no matter who you are, you are in a weaker position (even if you know the language) and there will always be people who have survived by capitalizing on it. Nothing personal, nothing racist.

Just keep in mind, any time people are really really really nice, smiling and wanting to take you to a:

1. restaurant
2. temple tour
3. art gallery/ student painting college
4. 'walking' tour (because they want to practice their english - you'll end up in a cousins' shop selling something)
5. very cheap tour of the city in their taxi $$ AND (ending up, after hours, in a cousin's shop selling something)
6. 'original' anything being sold street
7. 'discount' anything being sold on the street
8. 'real' anything being sold on the street, (or at a dreaded cousins shop)
9. 'expensive tea' being sold anywhere that isn't a top notch teahouse where many many Chinese customers are also drinking, laughing, eating fruit and smoking!
10. are requested to pay in USD$ for anything (in a foreign country)

...

YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED.

Good luck to all fellow travelers. Intuition and a mean poker face usually work.

Annette

linden1228 & Kathie -

I was in Jerusalem and had just entered the area in front of the Wall. I had just wandered in and a couple of guys pointed and instructed me to get a paper yarmulke to wear on the sacred ground. I think I paid a few shekels for it. A minute or two later a short Hassidic guy came up to me and started speaking in Hebrew.

I had just arrived in that city from Paris and so repeated what I had said there: "je ne parle pas". The guy started speaking to me in French!

MrW, that is very funny!