mjkimp

Dear All,

My better half and I are very excited for our trip to Japan. Unfortunately, between the wedding, etc, etc, etc, we have not spent as much time planning it as we would of hoped. WE have some basic ideas, and now need some helpful hints from you guys.

Our itinerary (We will be there May 1st to May 17th):

1. Tokyo (Day 1-5) - so as to avoid the mayhem of golden week.
2. Niko - I assume we can include it during our stay in Tokyo
3. Hakone-Mount Fuji - Climb mount fuji and stay in Hakone that night -- Day 6/7
4. Honshu - Day 8
5. Kyoto - Day 9-12
6. Nara - day trip as part of Kyoto stay.
7. Osaka with trip to Mt. Koya - Day 13-14
8. Kurashiki - Day 15
9. Hiroshima-Day 16
10 Day 17- back to Tokyo and fly home.

The good/bad news is that we haven't booked anything yet... so this is flexible. The bad news is we prob should start nailing t hings down a bit.

Questions/Advice needed:

1. What would you suggest in terms of overall flow of the trip? Does it make sense logistically?

2. Do you think we are staying in too many places and will spend more time checking in/out of places that sight seeing?

3. We will definitely book Tokyo from home. How hard would it be to leave it open ended and book as we go along? Sounds silly; however, this would allow us to adjust things easier. But booking while traveling might also be a hassle.

4. Should we knock a few things off our itinerary and go to Okinawa?

5. After golden week, how easy is it to travel on the train? I assume we will get JR passes, as it seems to be the most cost effective way .
j
Although we are on our honeymoon, we prefer to be very active (outdoors and cultural) and are big foodies.

Your frank advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike
. Advice for nice ryokan to stay in Osaka and Kyoto.

Mara

I'm not one of the resident Japan experts but I have a couple of comments.
First, you can't climb Mt. Fuji in May - here is info about the season. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6901.html

Your itinerary does seem a bit busy to me. I'm not sure what you mean by Honshu on Day 8. It is a large island.

I just based myself for three nights in Kurashiki and don't think I would do it if I were to redo my trip. It has a cutesy area with old buildings and museums but the rest of the city is just another city imo. And for me as a base it wasted time to get back to Okayama where the shinkansen runs.

You could actually base yourself in Tokyo and Kyoto and do day trips from there. Except for Koyasan - I was there for two nights - even from Osaka it is a long trip of over two hours.

Mara

Oops, I pushed 'submit' too fast.

May folks do day trips to Hiroshima from Kyoto as well as Miyajima Island where I stayed one night and really enjoyed.

I was going to say if you're foodies you'd probably like Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto for their many different types of cuisine.

I always get accommodations before I go, but that is me. If you have a laptop you may be able to make reservations as you go - don't really know.

Congratulations on your wedding!

mjkimp

Hey Mara,

Thank you for your kind reply. We were thinking of doing some of the easier hikes on Mt. Fuji, as I do realize that you can not fully hike it unless it is July or August.

Honshu - lol - I'm sorry my bd.. we Want to do Magome and Tsumago hike in the Kiso valley region.

Thank you for the advice on Miyajima Island. We will look into that.

I would prefer to stay in fewer hotels and pack and repack less.

If we get a JR pass, how fast are those trains? From Tokyo and Kyoto we can reach all those places and not spend most of the time on the train, back and forth? That would be a great idea.

Please keep your advice coming.

Thank you,

Mike

Kurashiki has the Himeji castle so we want to do a day trip there.

Mara

Hey Mike - No, Kurashiki doesn't have the Himeji castle - Himeji has the Himeji castle. ;-)

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3500.html

Oh, okay, now I know what you mean - I've wanted to do that hike as well in the Kiso valley.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6078.html

Japan-guide.com is a wonderful source of Japan travel info and has a forum as well.

You can check all the train times on hyperdia.com - there is an English link on the top left hand side of the home page.

shandy

Staying at Tsumago and doing the hike between there and Magome was amongst the highlights of our four weeks in Japan. I have no doubt that you would love it.

Getting there and back to Tokyo/Kyoto is fairly time consuming and given your time constraints would need careful thinking about. I think that you are trying to fit in a little too much (very tempting I know) and probably need to cut it back a bit.

However, as a honeymoon couple, if you want a chance to spend some time by yourselves in a beautiful setting, this is one of the places to go and would be a good counterpoint to the extrememly busy and crowded cities. If you have not come across it yet, you can read about our time in the Kiso Valley in my trip report at http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ough-japan.cfm

Another place where the two of you could have some time alone is to rework the trip to include a night or two on Miyajima, the little island just off Hiroshima.

As previously mentioned, I wouldn't bother with Kurashiki. We enjoyed our one night there but it is not worth going out of your way though. In relation to Himeji it is easy to fit it in on the way down to Hiroshima so doesn't need a night in itself. Or alternatively, if you should decide to cut the Hiroshima part of your trip it is an easy day trip from Kyoto.

BigRuss

The Shinkansen are fast, the rest of the trains are efficient but none are exceedingly swift. The fastest trains go about 168 mph between Tokyo and Kyoto, and up to 186 mph between Osaka and points south; the non-Shinkansen do not exceed 90 mph. It's about 2.25-2.5 hours from Kyoto to Tokyo on Shinkansen -- more like 2.5 hours if you have a JR pass because the fastest train (Nozomi) is not available (but the Hikari lines are plenty swift). Non-Shinkansen trains from Kyoto to Tokyo are not a legitimate option.

We used Kyoto as our base of operations in Central Honshu for Osaka (15 minutes by Shinkansen), Himeji (40 minutes by Shinkansen), etc. There is no Shinkansen from Kyoto to Nara (yet).

Do not assume you will get JR passes, go get them. The cost of going from Tokyo to Kyoto round trip without JR passes will be more than a two-week pass. Get the two week pass and activate it at Narita Airport and set its effective date to cover the day you fly home, NOT THE DAY YOU ARRIVE. You won't need the JR pass in Tokyo. You each get a Suica card at Narita Airport (3500Y), it covers the Narita Express to Tokyo (1500Y on the card, 3100Y retail) and about 8 train rides (either local JR lines or Tokyo Metro) in Tokyo, which would be about 160-220Y each.

Yes, you go to Nikko from Tokyo and consider taking the Tobu deal (http://www.tobu.co.jp/foreign/), which includes RT train to Nikko and entrance to the main temples and shrines.

mrwunrfl

It is easy enough to book accommodations along the way. You will find a travel agency in the train station. You are moving around a bit, but that is ok, it is not very far/long on most days. It is up to you, your style of travel.

I think you are squeezing the time in Kiso Valley. Also, your plan of leaving Hiroshima and getting on a plane at NRT on the same day might not be reasonable.

You probably should get a 14-day JR pass unless you can firm up your plans.

You can scratch Osaka and just go to Koya-san.

RufusTFirefly

We just returned from Japan Saturday night (USA). You might want to consider a mix of buses and trains. We saved over the price of a train pass by using buses where the travel time difference was not significant--buses cost a lot less than trains. Our itinerary was not the same as yours, but it still might work well for your itinerary. We went Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagoya, Shirakawa-go, Takayama, Tokyo. Used the train (Skyliner) to and from Narita and from Tokyo to Kyoto, and buses for the rest.

The subway system in Tokyo and bus/subway system in Kyoto are great and easy to use.

mjkimp

thanks for the great train & bus tips...we are still working on cutting down & stream lining our itinerary. So we decided that we are going to make Tokyo and Kyoto our main-hubs (stay in each city for about 5-6 days & make some day trips i.e. Nara, Osaka, Himeji will be day trips from Kyoto and Nikko will be a day trip from Tyokya). And we definitely want to do the hike from Tsumago to Magome (in Kiso Valley)-- how long should we spend here and do you have any recommendations for accommodations? We also want to go to Mt. Fuji/Hakone, is this a day trip or do we need to stay over? Should we eliminate Hiroshima from our itinerary? We are eliminating Kurashiki.

We'd love to try the hot springs and the onsen (& eat a big traditional meal)- any reco's for an outsstanding one?

Also, regarding the JR railpass, we plan to purchase a 14 day pass, can we just buy it at NRT or should we purchase this online before our arrival? Do we have to book trains prior to arrival or this we can do once we get there?

One last thing, as this is our honeymoon, we want to stay somewhere special, doesn't have to be fancy or anything, just nice with comfortable beds, do you have reco's for Tokyo, Kyoto?

Many Thanks! Holly & Mike

hawaiiantraveler

You cannot buy your JR Pass in Japan. You must purchase your voucher outside of Japan in your home town preferably. See here for more details:

http://www.japanrail.com/JR_japanrailpass.html

I agree with mrwurfl that Kiso would be a strain on your time.....doable but not advisable

How about an itinerary that looks something like this?

Tokyo day 1-5
Hiroshima day 6
Miyajima day 7
Kurashiki day 8
Kyoto days 9-12
Mt Koya day 13
Mt Fuji(Fuji Five Lakes)or Hakone days 14-16
Tokyo days 16-17

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6900.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3401.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5200.html

What's your budget and we'll give some recos?

Looking back over this, you could do Kiso if you want to cut out or into something else......

Aloha!

hawaiiantraveler

or stay in Narita on the last day and do something from here:

http://www.mgnewman.com/narita/index.html

Mara

ht, would you say with your revised itinerary that they may manage with a 7 day rail pass since some parts of the railway trip to Mt.Koya and Hakone are non-JR?

Personally I would cut out Kurashiki and put Himeji-jo in - maybe on the way back from Miyajima.

Also depending on departure time, going from the Hakone to NRT is very doable - I did it by taxi from MotoHakone to Odawara and highway bus to NRT with my fractured foot. ;-)

BigRuss

You cannot buy a JR pass in Japan and you cannot buy it in the US. Here is what the transaction actually is:

(1) you purchase a voucher in the US from a travel agency for a JR pass.
(2) you exchange the voucher at Narita International for the pass.

HT's itinerary suggestion is good, but shortchanges Kyoto a bit, I think, especially if you're going to day-trip to Osaka (just a quick hop on the Shinkansen).

And I'd be da*ned if I spent times on buses in Japan instead of zipping from place to place by train. How much is your time worth?

RufusTFirefly

Sometimes the bus doesn't take any longer, or not significantly longer, than the train, and it costs a lot less. For example, Nagoya to Shirakawa-go would have taken 4 hours by a combination of train and bus. and cost over 9,000 Yen per person. Direct bus took 2-3/4 hours and cost 3,500 Yen per person.

It just depends on where you are going and your travel schedule.

Taking the bus from Tokyo to Kyoto or Kyoto to Nagoya made no sense, but it made sense Nagoya to Shirakawa-go and Takayama to Tokyo. Plus from Takayama to Tokyo the bus went through a scenic area we wanted to see but had no time for a stay--besides taking only a little longer than the train (about 1/2 hour on our schedule, and it cost less than half as much as the train would have).

Of course, if someone buys a rail pass because it works well for their particular trip, that changes the cost factor.

What it comes down to is that no one way of travel fits all schedules. And if you want the best combination for your trip you have to do some research--sometimes all train is best; sometimes all bus may be best; sometimes a combination is best. Or even air travel or car rental might be best--it just depends on the particulars of your trip.

BigRuss

Rufus, I'm trying to answer the question based upon the OP's stated itinerary.

The OP is discussing Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Hiroshima, Nara -- those are train accessible on mainline JR trains and all but one are on the Tokkaido-Sanyo Shinkansen. Shirakawa-go is a bit further off the beaten path. For places accessible by main line JR trains (check the japanrail.com website for the main intercity train lines), trains will be faster than buses. Figuring out to the yen each trip if you don't get a JR pass is a bit time-consuming, at the least. And given that the OP wants to go from Tokyo to the Kansai area and back, there's almost no way that a JR pass won't make sense unless the OP only stays in Kyoto and Tokyo.

The RT from Tokyo to Kyoto on the Hikari Shinkansen is 12,710 or 13,520 (non-reserved or reserved, respectively) each way -- or 25,420/27,040Y total for round trip. Kyoto to Hiroshima is another 10-11Y each way, which is 20-22K round trip. If the OP goes from Tokyo to Kyoto, Kyoto RT to Hiroshima and back, and then Kyoto to Tokyo, he's already exceeded the cost of the 14-day JR pass.

Even paying a la carte rates for Tokyo-Hiroshima (18,000+Y) without going to Kyoto first, then Hiroshima-Kyoto (10,000+Y), then Kyoto to Tokyo (13,000Y), and finally Tokyo to Narita (3,000Y or 3500Y Suica) means the OP will blow 44K yen on those four tickets. The 14-day pass costs 45,300. Any other local JR lines (which are highly useful in Kyoto because it does not have an extensive subway system, unlike Osaka and Tokyo), trips to Osaka or Himeji, etc. are extra.

mrwunrfl

Can't really say what the OP's itinerary is. Last post was asking if Hiroshima should be cut. My guess is that will happen. I'm guessing based on question number 2 which the OP asked and later answered (Mike thought the original itin was good but Holly wanted to make home bases). Is that right Holly?

hawaiiantraveler

I missed the Tokyo/Kyoto being a hub part, sorry.

mjkimp

Hey guys,

Thank you for all your replies. We are both kind of doing this on the fly. We are getting married in 3 days and also sold our house and are closing on it in a week. Which does not mean, that we are not totally excited about Japan. We both like to be a bit spontaneous and flexible. So, although I definitely wished that we had more time to research it, I feel confident that we will make this work out well.

Thank you for explaining the JR pass ordering for me. I just
ordered it. I didn't realize that it had to be ordered in the USA. Almost blew it. Cost is not as much of a concern, and I do want to maximize our time. I do understand the points made about buses. Thank you for the lively discussion on this topic.

I feel bad that I didn't get to learn more, but now that the other things in my (our) lives are more in control, I can focus on this. I know, people plan their HM for year, and we are doing it under a week.

Budget - I'm hoping to stay within 15K for 17days. Is that reasonable? Any suggestions for great onsens and ryokans are welcome.

The hard part is the itinerary. Holly wants to make hubs. I'm ok with it as long as it makes sense logistically. I would love any any all suggestions, as I'm not totally clear on all the distances involved.

I like the idea of going to Hiroshima first and working our way back. However, our plane leaves at 6pm so we can still get on in the AM and be there by the afternoon, as I understand.

So, here is what I'm thinking:

Tokyo -Day 1-5
Niko - Day trip from Tokyo
Hakone-Mount Fuji - Day 6/7
Tsunamu/Magone (Kiso Valley) - Day 7/8
Kyoto - Day 9-15
Nara - day trip as part of Kyoto stay.
Osaka - day trip from Kyoto
Mt. Koya - day trip from Kyoto
Himeji - day trip from Kyoto
(do these day trips make sense, or some are too far)? Mt. Koya sounds like it is the farthest)
Day 16 either go to Hiroshima for a night or maybe scrap that and take an extra night in Osaka or Mr. Fuji?

What do you guys think? Are we making loops or it is flowing fine logistically? i.e. We are not going from Pittsburgh to Detroit by way of Miami?

Let us know your thoughts. Still too busy? I think we will be utilizing trains enough to make JR worhtwhile?

Any accommodations reccs would be appreciated. Esp Kyoto, Hakone and Kiso valley.

I want to thank you once more. You folks will be helping making our HM truly memorable.

Cheers,
Mike

mjkimp

What is OT? Sorry, we are newbies