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First time in Japan in November - Request Itinerary Help

First time in Japan in November - Request Itinerary Help

Old Aug 8th, 2017, 06:23 AM
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First time in Japan in November - Request Itinerary Help

Hi everyone,
My husband and I are headed to Japan for the first time to spend our honeymoon this coming November. I've sketched out the following itinerary and am looking for guidance on whether we've given ourselves enough time experience each place in our itinerary - prioritizing food, nature, and unique experiences (e.g., staying at traditional ryokan/minshukus, onsen). Our major stops are Tokyo, Kyoto, the Kumano Kodo trail, short overnight in Osaka, Hakone, and back to Tokyo.

My questions:
-Have I allotted enough time/too much or too little time to any one place?
-Should we skip Osaka altogether and go straight from the end of the Kumano Kodo trail to Hakone (doing so would give us one extra day at the end of our trip in Tokyo)?
-Should we make time in our trip to go to Naoshima (if we're already planning on going to the Hakone Open Air Museum)?
-Any other suggestions for unique experiences that aren't captured already here?

11/10/2017 Arrive at Haneda in time for dinner, stay in Tokyo
11/11/2017 Day exploring/getting over jetlag, stay in Tokyo
11/12/2017 3 hour train to Kyoto, half day exploring, stay in Kyoto
11/13/2017 Exploring, stay in Kyoto
11/14/2017 Exploring (option for day trip to Nara), stay in Kyoto
11/15/2017 Exploring, stay in Kyoto
11/16/2017 3-4 hours train to Kiitanabe/start Kumano Kodo pilgramage trail, stay in Takahara
11/17/2017 Kumano Kodo, stay in Tsugizakura-oji
11/18/2017 Kumano Kodo, stay in Yunomine Onsen
11/19/2017 Kumano Kodo, stay in Koguchi
11/20/2017 Kumano Kodo, stay in Nachi
11/21/2017 4 hours train to Osaka/low key half day Osaka (okonomiyaki), stay in Osaka
11/22/2017 2.5-3 hours train to Odawara/half day in Hakone/Hakone Open Air Museum, stay in Hakone
11/23/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/24/2017 1 hour train to Tokyo, exploring most of the day, stay in Tokyo
11/25/2017 Exploring, stay in Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM

Thanks in advance for your help!
Mimi
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 08:50 AM
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I think that plan looks really good.

I haven't been to Wakayama but have read about Kumano Kodo and it sounds like you are doing it right, and am assuming you can take all of those 1-night stays on the route.

You can (should) keep Osaka. It is the right spot to stop on your way from Wakayama to Hakone. And you have expressed an interest (okonomiyaki) in visiting there, which means that you have actually looked into staying there (a lot of people put Osaka on their itin without knowing why). Visit the castle if you have time. It is worthwhile, esp if you read the history of it.

On the 11th, I recommend going to Meiji Jingu for shichi-go-san. You might also see a Shinto wedding party. If you fill the 11th without Mieji Jingu then Sunday the 12th might be better than the 11th. I suggest that it is worth the visit to MJ on the 12th at the expense of Kyoto time.

But if you don't go to MJ, or even if you do, and you have a Shinto shrine on your Kyoto itinerary then you could plan that shrine visit for the 15th. that is the "official" day for 7-5-3 celebration, though people often go on the weekends before/after the 15 when it is on a weekday, like this year (Wed). Heian Jingu would be an obvious choice. I did see something on web that discussed shichi-go-san at various Kyoto shrines. I don't recall a best choice, but that there are several good choices.

You can find more about shichi-go-san and see if it interests you. If you go to my profile page then you will see the first picture that I ever took in Japan. It is still my favorite. That was Sunday, Nov 11, 2001 and that 3-year old little girl, her mother, and her grandparents were celebrating her.
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 09:28 AM
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As far as Naoshima goes: it is not on your already well thought out route.

Your closest point to Naoshima that is on your route is Osaka. It is 2 hours from Osaka to Uno where you can get a ferry to Naoshima. So that is 4 hours of train, roundtrip. Add another hour or so for the two boat rides.

I don't know where that day for Naoshima would come from.

It could come from the end, at the expense of Tokyo. Take the 25th from Tokyo and add it to Osaka for a day-trip to Naoshima?

Maybe even do that and take away the 24th from Tokyo and move it to the 12th. That is, add the 12th to Tokyo and move everything a day later, then go from Hakone to the airport. That is something to think about, anyway.
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 09:34 AM
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My meaning is that Naoshima needs to be really important to you to "break" your solid (imo) itinerary.
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 02:15 PM
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It looks pretty good to me too. Although if you really want some "unique experiences", in addition to staying in a ryokan, especially since it is your honeymoon you might try to stay in a number of 'love hotels' for your trip. They are generally not expensive and offer quite a unique theme for each night of your stay.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2031.html
https://www.tsunagujapan.com/10-phen...-counterparts/
There generally easy to find in big urban areas.
Although if you are already spending time in Tokyo, you can safely de-emphasize Osaka somewhat. Every place has something though. Dotonbori at night is a gem, and there are some great night views - particularly the Umeda Sky Bldg and Abeno Harukas Bldg.
goo.gl/BSyVLi
By all means try the okonomiyaki - and you also might try the octopus dumplings (takoyaki) also. And as said, getting from Kumano to Hakone in one shot will take more than 4½ hours.

If you'll be in Japan in November, then by all means try and see some of the fantastic autumn colors if you can. There are some very famous places for them.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2014.html
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 03:06 PM
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Hi there.
I am planning to walk Kumano Kodo in early November (forth time). The itinerary looks pretty good.
Osaka has its own charm but you may also consider riding the train from Nachi/Shinbu to Nagoya.
I recommend you to leave Naoshima along with Miyajima and Shimanami Kaido for another time.
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 03:14 PM
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I mean Singu. > Nachi/Shinbu
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 05:46 PM
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IMO, 3.5 or 4 days for Kyoto / Nara is not much. IME, many first-time visitors to Japan want at least 6 days for that area. YMMV. Osaka is very close to Kyoto, so you might consider taking Osaka off your itinerary and add the time to Kyoto, with the idea that you could day-trip to Osaka if you find you want to do so once there. Just an idea….

Should be a great trip no matter what you choose!
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Old Aug 8th, 2017, 08:10 PM
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The OP's plan is to break up the trip from Kumano to Odawara by stopping in Osaka for a night. Maybe a nice western bed in a nice hotel after your Kumano trek?

mimilovespierogies, I can't find an itin from Nochi to JR Osaka station in 4 hours. Looks more like 5 hr or more. Maybe you are using a different station in Osaka. Like Nachi to Tennoji in 259 min.

Going to Nagoya, as srsddan2017 suggested, could be 4 hours, departing 8:51. I think Osaka is more interesting, tho.
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Old Aug 9th, 2017, 09:50 AM
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I will float the ideas of staying at a love hotel, going to Meiji Jingu on 11/11 or 11/12, and leaving Naoshima for our next trip to Japan with my husband. I’ll also do some double-checking on Hyperdia to confirm trail time/distance from Kii-Katsuura to Osaka or our next destination. I really appreciate all of your insights and help. A few follow-up questions I have for specific commenters. Others please chime in if you have opinions to share!

srsddan2017 – Have you done the Nakahechi trail in less time than what I’ve proposed above, and was it still an enjoyable (not rushed) experience? To give us more time in Tokyo at the end of the trip (and perhaps to maybe even stay somewhere for 2 nights instead of just one between finishing the Kumano and heading to Hakone), I'm now re-thinking whether we should take the train from Kyoto to Kii-Tanabe the evening of 11/15 in order to be able to have a full day of hiking on 11/16 (thus getting us to Tsugizakura-oji our first night instead of our second). I’ve also been doing more research on the different routes we could take. As detailed currently, our Kumano Kuodo trek would take us through the most difficult sections from Hongu Taisha to Koguchi and Koguchi to Nachi Taisha, but I've also read about a 90 minute boat ride along the Kumano-gawa River that we could take from Hongu Taisha to Hayatami Taisha, and from there, we could walk to Daimonzaka and Nachi Taisha before finishing the hike. Doing so would allow us to see all 3 shrines, and it would also strip down the trip to 3 nights total. Any feedback you have on whether squeezing the trek into that amount of time is greatly appreciated – especially since you’ve done it before. 

mrwunfrl and srsddan2017 – What would you recommend doing in Nagoya, if we were able to shorten the Kumano leg of our trip? For a little while I read about Shirakawa-go and Kiso Valley. Would those be the places to focus on for a day or two there? Does the countryside there have a different feel from the countryside in Hakone?
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Old Aug 9th, 2017, 08:11 PM
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I did (1) Takijiri ~ Takahara, (2) Takahara ~ Chikatsuyu and (3) Chikatsuyu ~ Hongu over three days. If you start early in the morning, you will be able to reach Tsugizakura on the first day.
This time I’m going to try a part of Kohechi (Totsukawa ~ Hongu) and Nakahechi. For Kohechi trail, you might have to camp at the hut. The boat ride to Hayatama Shrine is on my wish list. I took Dorokyo boat tour before and it was nice.
From Shingu to Nagoya, Magosetoge Trail is recommended too.
Kiso Valley can be a day trip from Nagoya. Magome and Tsumago are preserved post towns that aren’t in Hakone.
There are traditional farm houses in Shirakawago. If you add Shirakawago, you may want to stay Takayama or Kanazawa.

JFYI there is the flight route between Tokyo Haneda Airport and Wakayama Shirahama Airport.
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Old Aug 9th, 2017, 09:40 PM
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>>Would those be the places to focus on for a day or two there?

By "there", I think you mean Nagoya. S-go is too far from Nagoya for a day trip. Kiso Valley would work.

I stayed in Nagoya to visit Inuyama for the excellent castle and the teagarden, and to go to Ise Jingu. I also visited Gifu which is nearby.

I wasn't much interest in Nagoya-shi. The baseball team was out of town. The castle is not that interesting. But I did find a nice kaiten sushi place in Nagoya. That trip was back when there was an SFO - NGO nonstop and I was headed to Takayama Matsuri. I liked the Hilton which has a station shuttle. More recently, I stayed at the Marriott Associa where I was willing to pay for the convenience to the station.
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Old Aug 9th, 2017, 09:55 PM
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>>some double-checking on Hyperdia to confirm trail time/distance from Kii-Katsuura to Osaka

Now I see why I got such longer travel times to Osaka. It is because the train from Nachi to Kiikatsuura is very infrequent.

But that train trip is only 4 minutes! You walk that or take a bus. I'd taxi. Then you could have that 240 min train trip.
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Old Aug 15th, 2017, 01:29 PM
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Hi everyone,
After bumping up with some reservation issues with the Kumano Kodo leg of our trip, here is our latest itinerary. Does anyone see any major issues with the way I've broken up our time in Kyoto/Nara? This version gets us to Kyoto earlier, shaves off one day of the Kumano Kodo, and allows us a little more time near the end for Tokyo. It also takes into account advice to take the train in the evenings to Kii-Tanabe. I'm wondering if 2 nights in Hakone is too much, but I've booked a luxury ryokan as a special treat to ourselves for the end of our trip. Appreciate your feedback!

11/10/2017 Arrive at Haneda in time for dinner, stay in Tokyo
11/11/2017 Day exploring/getting over jetlag, stay in Tokyo
11/12/2017 Day exploring Tokyo (experience shichi-go-san at Meiji Jingu), take 3 hour train to Kyoto after lunch, stay in Kyoto
11/13/2017 Exploring (Arashiyami half day?), stay in Kyoto
11/14/2017 Exploring most of the day, train to Kii-Tanabe after dinner, stay Kii-Tanabe
11/15/2017 Kumano Kodo - Hike from Takijiri-oji to Tzugizakura (leave luggage at train station or Airbnb?)
11/16/2017 Kumano Kodo - Tzugizakura to Hongu, stay Yunomine Onsen
11/17/2017 Kumano Kodo - Hongu to Koguchi, stay Koguchi
11/18/2017 Kumano Kodo - Koguchi to Nachi, take 4pm or 6pm train along coast back to Kii-Tanabe (if able to get onto 4pm train, take train all the way to Kyoto if not completely exhausted)
11/19/2017 Morning train to Kyoto if didn't make it night before, explore and stay in Kyoto (or Osaka?)
11/20/2017 Day trip to Nara, stay in Kyoto (or Osaka?)
11/21/2017 2.5-3 hours train to Odawara/half day in Hakone/Hakone Open Air Museum, stay in Hakone
11/22/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/23/2017 1 hour train to Tokyo, exploring most of the day, stay in Tokyo
11/24/2017 Exploring, stay in Tokyo
11/25/2017 Exploring, stay in Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM
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Old Aug 15th, 2017, 05:44 PM
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Whether you can see Arashiyama in a half day depends on what you want to see there. I think I am not uncommon in having spent a full day to see a carefully selected set of its delights.
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Old Aug 15th, 2017, 06:41 PM
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Gotcha, maybe it'll have to be a full day in Arashiyama. Thanks!
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Old Aug 15th, 2017, 07:17 PM
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It really depends on your priorities for Kyoto -- you have so very little time there!
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Old Aug 16th, 2017, 05:43 AM
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So, you moved Kumano earlier, crushed the Kyoto time, and moved it to Tokyo. more or less

The Kumano part was 6 days, 16th to 21st. Now it is 5 or 6 days, 14th to 18th or 19th.

By crushed Kyoto, I mean that you originally had 3 consecutive full days for Kyoto, which I think is just fine. One of those days was a Nara option.

Now, Kyoto is one full day, the 13th, and a non-consective full day, the 20th, that is now a dedicated Nara day. And the 13th isn't really a Kyoto day, considering you would be taking the train out of town to get to Arashiyama (which you are inclined to squeeze into a half-day).

Am not sure if I would call these "major" issues.

A day trip to Nara could be nice. An overnight is better. With 2 nights you can do it justice with time for Nara and Horyuji.

Hakone moved up a day, which is probably better considering that the 23rd is Labor Thanksgiving holiday. IDK, but suspect that a lot of people will make it a 4-day weekend.

Your Hakone plan is good because it gives you time to do what you want without rushing. One reason mentioned for two nights in a ryokan is to be able to relax and actually enjoy the ryokan. I stayed 2 nights in a minshuku there just to have a full day without any schedule pressure.
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Old Aug 16th, 2017, 07:16 AM
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Boiling it down to the Kyoto specific days in our current itinerary:

11/12/2017 Train from Tokyo, 1/2 day Kyoto
11/13/2017 Full day Kyoto
11/14/2017 2/3 day Kyoto (train to Kii-Tanabe at night)
...
11/18/2017 Take 6pm train, arrive Kyoto at 9:45pm, stay in Kyoto
11/19/2017 Full day in Kyoto
11/20/2017 Full day Kyoto (perhaps here is where we would fit in Arashiyama)
11/21/2017 Kyoto morning, train to Hakone after lunch

I see what you mean about how splitting up our time in Kyoto and makes for a more disjointed trip.

Given the time we have left by moving the Kumano Kodo trip up, do you think it's worth skipping Nara altogether? Or, go to Nara from 11/12-11/14 instead of Kyoto? If it were you, how would you spend the time...?

I really appreciate your suggestions as I work this out.
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Old Aug 16th, 2017, 07:35 AM
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I assume the Kumano Kodo dates are fixed. Could you move all your Tokyo/Hakone time to the beginning, then do the Kumano Kodo, followed by Kyoto and Nara at the end (even better if you could fly home from KIX)?

There's a good blog on doing the Kumano Kodo (and much else) at http://www.japan-guide.com/community...ey/report-2248
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