leslieq

Many of you have helped me plan our trip in from April 3-20 2015.

Here is what our final itinerary looks like (with approximate transit times in between):

Kansai Airport (1 night)
(1 hour)
Nara (2 nights)
(2 hours)
Koyasan (1 night)
(3.5 hours)
Kyoto (5 nights)
(3 hours)
Tsumago (1 night)
(3 hours)
Shibu Onsen near snow monkeys (1 night)
(1.5 hours)
Karuizawa (2 nights)
(3.5 hours)
Hakone (2 nights)
(2 hours)
Kamakura (1 night)
(1.5 hours)
Haneda Airport (midnight flight)

We're staying in a range of places from guesthouses, hotels and an apartment to several nice ryokans.

Is there anything about the itinerary that I should be aware of? Are the train times in between places reasonable? We normally don't stay such short times at places, but somehow this trip just happened that way. We've never been to Japan and have so many things we'd like to see.

Just about anything can still be rearranged at this point if there is something of concern in the way I've planned things so far.

Thank you.

kja

I'm sure I've already asked, but just in case, have you considered going straight from Kansai to Nara? You'll be exhausted, but you'll be exhausted under any scenario, and it might be nice to wake up (when you do wake up ;-) ) ready to go and with one less hotel stay to boot.

For trains, I trust you've consulted hyperdia?
http://www.hyperdia.com

BTW, while in Koyasan, consider stopping at Kongobuji to see its magnificent screens.

leslieq

Hi kja,

You're so nice to always respond! We get in later in the evening in Kansai and we're staying at a small guesthouse in Nara (Sakuraya). I think we'd be getting in too late for the innkeeper there.

So far have been using Google Japan map for the quick guesses on transit, but really do need to start using hyperdia.

I had hoped to get a reservation at the temple you stayed at in Koyasan but they were booked already (months ago!). Thanks for the recommendation for Kongobuji. Am keeping a notes sheet for all of these great suggestions.

Wish we didn't have so many hotels to move between; I normally don't plan trips with such short stays in places.

kja

I'm glad you've found my responses helpful, but the "proof is in the pudding" as they say, so do let us know how your trip goes!

Yes, start checking hyperdia. IME, you can LITERALLY plan your trip, to the minute, using this site!

I trust you are aware of Japan's truly wonderful luggage forwarding options, called takuhaibin -- using it makes moving about SO much easier!
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html

mrwunrfl

Your times are in the right ballpark, except for the trip to Yudanaka. Here is what I came up with:
Kansai Airport
1.5 hrs
Nara
2.5 hrs
Koyasan
3 hrs
Kyoto
2.5 hrs by rail to Nagiso then bus
Tsumago (1 night)
bus back to Nagiso, or Magome to Nakatsugawa, and then 3.5 to 5 hrs by rail to Yudanaka
Shibu Onsen near snow monkeys
2 hrs
Karuizawa
2.5 hrs + travel from station to lodging
Hakone-Yumoto
2 hrs
Kamakura
1.5 hrs
Haneda Airport (midnight flight)

If I added up the fares correctly (check) then Kyoto ... Kamakura was under 20,000 JPY. So I don't think you need a JR Pass.

You could probably use one of the Kansai regional passes:
http://www.japan-guide.com/bus/kiso.html

I took a look at the Kansai Thru Pass which is good on non-JR trains. I searched on HyperDia to see how it could be used from the airport to Nara.

When I did a search with the Japan Railway box unchecked so as to search only private railways it shows a routing that uses a Kintetsu train. And the walking time from Kintetsu Nara station to JR Nara station is 14 minutes. I would take that into account when planning the trip - depending on proximity of your lodging to either station.

mrwunrfl

Here is the link to Kansai regional passes that I intended to use in my previous post:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2357_kansai.html

That other link can help with logistics for the Magome/Tsumago area.

leslieq

mrwunrfl,

Thanks for the double-check on getting to Yudanaka. I just used Hyperdia to go from Magome to Yudanaka. The shortest route was Gotanda, Osaki, Tokyo Shinkansen to Nagano, Shinshunakano, then Yudanaka.

Yikes!! The total time was 3.5 hrs, but so many transfers. This would be our trickiest trip. If it weren't for a desire to see the monkeys (we love wildlife) I would consider dropping it...and still might.

Magome to Karuizawa looks like 3 transfers and about an hour and a half!! Hmmmm....

This will be a fun trip but not necessarily relaxing with moving around so much. Still thinking about that.

kja, have heard about the luggage forwarding service but need to think about how best to use it. For sure we need to do it between Magome and Tsumago.

Thanks to both of you.

leslieq

Midee...we're staying in Nara for two nights as we don't want to immediately go to Koyasan with jet lag.

Many people do say that Nara is not worth two days, but it will be our first few days in Japan and think everything will be new and interesting to us then!

Thanks so much for your input. Every response helps.

mrwunrfl

The place named Magome that hyperdia uses is not the one that you want to visit. That is in Kanto region. The Magome you want is in Gifu-ken and does not have a railway station.

JR Nakatsugawa station is the one to use to get the bus to/from Magome. JR Nagiso station for Tsumago.

See the map: http://www.japan-guide.com/bus/kiso.html

mrwunrfl

>>and then 3.5 to 5 hrs by rail to Yudanaka<<

I made a mistake with that, but not sure how. I didn't include the bus from Magome in that.

I did another search, this time for April 11, 2015 which is a Saturday. The bus timetable shows weekend departures from Magome at 8:40 that arrives Nakatsugawa station at 9:05.

I used 9:05 as the departure time at hyperdia and got these result: http://tinyurl.com/ljmrxmn

The Route1 result shows a departure at 9:50 from Nakatsugawa to Nagano, transfer to Nagano Electric Railway to get to Yudanaka at 12:54. You would pay ¥1,160 for the second leg as a JR Pass would not apply on that private railway.

So the whole trip from Magome, bus + 45 minutes wait at Nakatsugawa for the train, the transfer at Nagano, would be 8:40 to 12:54.

So, 4 hrs 14 min.

Mara

I think your itinerary is very interesting and varied. I have been to the places you are planning to visit except those in the Nagano area.

Two nights in Nara is fine - there is so much to see there...

Even with that long trip from Magome to Yudanaka you will be on different buses/trains so it will be okay imo. I have taken many long trips in Japan and find if I change from time to time it goes pretty fast.

As far as sutra copying, not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned it, it can be done in Koyasan:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4908.html
I did it there first a few years ago and at the Moss Temple in Kyoto this year...

Enjoy your trip!

mrwunrfl

Depending on arrival time at KIX, this is probably how I would do the first part:

1-day JR Kansai Area Pass to take Haruka L'ex to Tennoji connecting to a JR Rapid train to Nara.

Nara to Shinimamiya on JR Rapid Svc ¥560. Then at the at Nankai Shinimamiya station get a Koyasan World Heritage Pass (i.e. I assume that is a "major" Nankai station). You likely can get that pass from a TA in Nara. I would get the pass for ¥3,400 so that I could use the Nankai Ltd Exp.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_012.html

Next day, use the Nankai pass to get back to Shinimamiya and then take JR Rapid trains, connecting at Osaka, to get to Kyoto for ¥920

mrwunrfl

Ok, I re-did the pricing for the JR part of your trip
8280 Kyoto to Nagiso
5700 Nakatsugawa to Nagano
3680 Nagano to Karuizawa
9570 Karuizawa to Odawara

¥27,230 total vs the ¥29,110 cost of a 7-day pass.

I would probably get the pass considering it to be worth the $1880 difference for the convenience.

If you activate the pass for the day you leave Kyoto then your arrival at Odawara would be Day 6 of the pass. You are planning two nights in Hakone and so would not be able to use the pass the next day on Day 7.

You could activate the pass for the day before you leave Kyoto. You could use it that day to save the ¥480 JR part of a day trip to Arashiyama. Or a day trip to Osaka would be ¥1120 on Rapid trains. With the pass you could take the limited express train which would be more comfortable and have reserved seats (and would cost a lot more if you paid for it).

mrwunrfl

There are two very worthwhile stops that you can make on your trip from Nakatsugawa to Yudanaka to Karuizawa.

The train to Nagano stops at Matsumoto, so you could visit the wonderful Matsumoto Castle. It is not far from the station. I took the bus to the castle and taxi or walked back.

Matsumoto Castle (松本城, Matsumotojō) is one of the most complete and beautiful among Japan's original castles ... http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6051.html

The other stop that you can make that day or the day that you go to Karuizawa is the amazing Zenkoji. I took the bus to the temple and then it was an easy walk back to the station.

Nagano's Zenkoji Temple (善光寺, Zenkōji) in is one of the most important and popular temples in Japan ... http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6001.html

leslieq

mrwunrfl,

You have been so kind to map all these options out!

After much consideration, think we're going to drop the trip to Yudanaka. It's just too long and hard to get to with the very limited time we have in Japan.

With all the short stops we have, we're instead going to add a day to either Karuizawa or Hakone. Still not sure which place; am looking to see what things there are to do in each. We like to walk and hike which sounds like there will be nice things in either area.

Sounds like we could visit Matsumoto Castle on the way to Karuizawa more easily, also. We wouldn't be in such a rush to get there.

Thanks again for all your great suggestions! You really helped me think through this part of the trip.

mrwunrfl

>>After much consideration, think we're going to drop the trip to Yudanaka.<<

I think that is a good idea (I felt that I could not actually suggest that you drop it not knowing the depth of your interest in it and me having no interest in the snow monkeys.)

Your route now, minus Yudanaka, still goes from Nakatsugawa through both Matsumoto and Nagano.

Nakatsugawa to Matsumoto is 74 min on the L'ex. Another 51 minutes Matsumoto to Nagano. Only 31 min on the shinkansen from Nagano to Karuizawa.

You could stop a night in Matsumoto and visit Zenkoji on the way to Karuizawa. Or visit Matsumotojo on the way to a night in Nagano. I would probably do the former (I actually did something like that - night in Matsumoto and then the castle and temple the next day before going on to Tokyo.

shellyk, I think, or another fodorite (or two) enjoyed spending a coupe of nights in Matsumoto. I think there is an old/traditional area or something - more than just the castle. Worth considering a night there for sure.

BigRuss

You can see the monkeys from Nagano. We took a bus from Nagano station and then hoofed it from the appropriate bus stop. It's a hike from the stop (about 3.5 km), and a long day out. The monkeys wander around and play in the springs and poop everywhere. It's ok for a day out, but going 3-4 hours out of the way is a bit much.

Matsumoto Castle (Matsumotojo) is excellent. Especially the stark pics of the castle that you can get on a sunny day.

leslieq

Thanks to both of you, BigRuss and mrwunrfl.

Several great options now. Spend the night in either Matsumoto or Nagano, or do three nights in Karuizawa and see the castle on the way.

Am favoring spending three nights in Karuizawa, to eliminate the time spent checking in and finding yet another accommodation.

By the way, if we're desperate for monkeys we could always go to the park in Kyoto that has so many of them! Definitely not the same as Yudenaka, though. I consoled myself by watching a documentary on them narrated by Liam Neeson.