degas

Like many of you, I love to read and dream, but am often short on actual time to act out my desires.

I started to focus on Vietnam and got real excited and started a plan, but then the LW, who had a great six days in Bangkok last year, asked me to throw in Thailand since Hue had a rainy period and the Mekong Delta didn’t immediately appeal to her.

Then she started thumbing through the travel guides I bought last weekend and saw amazing pictures of the limestone formations of Krabi, but wait, she then a helpful friend told her about Laos and the temples of Cambodia, and so it all started to fall apart.

I feel like my limbs are being pulled off in a torture device! But strangely, it doesn’t hurt and actually feels kind of nice in a weird sort of way! So I had a few glasses of wine and started all over again.

Maybe you good folks can advise me on some trip options. I’ve outlined the trip parameters and our objectives below. My gut instinct, and I have a very huge one, tells me it will take two or maybe three trips to see it all:

PARAMETERS

ORIGIN: Hawaii

TIME: Nov/Dec, and then maybe again in Mar

DURATION: 15 nights in region (includes arrival night and night prior to departure)

LODGING BUDGET: $60-100 per night on average, willing to splurge a bit to $125 for a truly great experience. Prefer small resorts or hotels: character, nice architecture, quiet with tropical garden feel. No concrete boxes filled with screaming kids or drunk tourists.

PACE: adventurous with brief periods of rest and relaxation. Some combination of city/nature/beach mix.

PRIORITIES & DESIRED EXPERIENCES

Waterfalls, Caves, Limestone Rock Formations

Hikes, Nature/Jungle walks (LW says no long death marches)

Long tail boat rides

Cooking classes

Great views over mountains and jungle

Orchids & Butterflies

Massages

Relaxing pool

Sunsets

Wildlife: Water buffalos, Monkeys, Elephants, Birds

Hill Tribes & Minority Cultures, Traditional Dancing

Temples & Monks (BUT NOT TOO MANY!)

Trying new foods

History & Museums

CONCERNS: being disappointed with the beaches in Thailand after living in Hawaii. Trying to do too much in such a short period of time.

POSSIBLE TRIP OPTIONS

Option One: Chiang Mai, Krabi, Siem Reap

Option Two: Hanoi, Sapa, Halong Bay,

Option Three: Hanoi, Luang Prabang, Chiang Mai

Option Four: Hanoi, Luang Prabang, Siem Reap

Option Five: Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Luang Prabang

Substitutes: Samui or Phuket for Krabi, Chiang Rai for Chiang Mai

NOTE: I realize I might have to spend a day in Bangkok on either end of the trip to relax or make flight connections.

Enough already. I’ve got to go hiking and hit the beach before it gets to hot. Have a great holiday everybody. And don’t worry, I’ll calm down in a little while! Tell me what you think about the options and which one to do first.

degas

Sorry, my LW says to add night markets and some shopping to the desired experiences, but its not a top priority.

We tend to look and gwack, rather than buy huge volumes of stuff.

Kathie

First of all, I want to tell you I think you are smart to be thinking about just three locations in 15 days, and to consider that you have gorgeous beaches on Hawaii.

If it were me (and, obviously, it isn't) I'd cut the beaches for this trip. Have you spent time in Bangkok before? If not, consider adding Bangkok to your mix. It's an amazing city and will give you lots of exposure to Thai culture and history. Also consider the complicatons of some air connections. There are limited flights to LP and Siem Reap, and only a few cities have reasonable connections with those places. If you are worried about too many temples and monks, don't do both LP and Siem Reap in the same trip.

Here are a couple of ideas to consider: Siem Reap and Northern Thailand - a few days in CM, staying in the city, then go to one of the outlying areas like Pai or Mae Hong Son.

Bangkok and Laos (both LP and perhaps a trip to more remote areas, see Mealea's report for a place that I plan to visit at some point). This would be a great combination of urban and rural, a real trip of contrasts!

Hanoi and either LP or Siem Reap. With this plan, you could augment your time in Hanoi with one or two overnight trips (Sapa or Halong Bay), or, do a Bangkok-Hanoi-Siem Reap combination.

Obviously, the permutations go on and on.

The one plan (#2) that I think has too little is the Hanoi/Sapa/Halong Bay - you could easily add another location to this.

Happy ruminating! Planning is a wonderful part of each trip.

eurotraveller

Kathie offered some good advice.

I think three locations in 15 days is your best bet. Since you originally wanted to visit Vietnam I would spend a few nights in Bangkok while recovering from jet lag and then visit Hanoi and Chiang Mai with maybe a side trip to Chiang Dao for hiking and amazing scenery.

For good shopping I recommend the Chatuchak weekend market in Bangkok. Great things at incredible prices!

The Baan Orapin in Chiang Mai is a wonderful place to stay at about $40 USD per night.

The Center Pointe Silom serviced apartments in Bangkok are a steal at $80 USD for an apartment that is probably about 900 sq ft.

In Krabi we stayed at Sunrise Tropical and it was another amazing place at about $80 per night.

Most of us enjoy SE Asia so much that several trips follow. Keep this in mind while planning so you don't kill yourselves trying to see too much in one trip.

When I was planning my first trip to Thailand I was overwhelmed with all the options. Now I am working on my second trip within a year!

degas

First off, we have both been to Bangkok several times and while we like it very much, we would prefer to see something different.

Kathie, I am going to push for not going to Krabi this trip, but those limestone formations look mighty attractive to my LW. Still, I'm thinking we could see them in Vietnam as a daytrip from Hanoi.

And you are right about flight connections - we don't wantt o make things too complicated. Seems like you add expense and lose a travel day when you fly between locations. We would like to keep it simple and easy. Thinking of an open jaw arrangment if possible.

Eurotraveller, thanks for the tip about Chiang Dao, I'm thinking now of doing it as a side trip from Chiang Mai. The Baan Orapin in Chiang Mai also looks great.

glorialf

Of the options you offered I would go with #5 with option #3 a second choice. Definitely skip the beaches. You can do everything you say you want to do in northern thailand so I would definitely do that and then add either Hanoi or LP. It will be a great trip.

rhkkmk

skip the beaches they can not hold a candle to HI....go to your beach and close your eyes and envision limestone outcroppings....end of that trip...

i like #3 given what you have told us about yourselves...

SR and LP would probably not fit your profile, although LP might and you could just skip most of the temples, but you might have trouble with cost of hotels there...and definately in SR the hotels are over your budget mostly...

KimJapan

I would go to Chiang Mai, Luang Prabang and Siem Reap. In fact, that's our current "plan du jour" for our next trip.

In Chiang Mai, cooking classes www.alotofthai.com - we did an absolutely excellent custom class here in December. Orchids and butterflies easy enough. Spa - Oasis Spa original location was a favorite part of my days. The elephant conservation center www.changthai.com To stay, Baan Orapin if you don't need a pool, Yaang Come Village if you do.

Luang Prabang...lots of places to stay for under $100.00 though you need to choose carefully to be sure you get one that suits your needs. These links might be helpful for you. http://en.tigertrail.travity.de/page...FB194E29576%7D
http://en.tigertrail.travity.de/page...B90AD42B343%7D
http://www.ubikasia.com/satrihouse/index_english.htm
http://www.3nagas.com/
http://www.calaoinn.laopdr.com/

Siem Reap is temples...but amazing ones, really amazing ones. Plenty to occupy you outside of temples as well. Ponheary Lee is popular here, and my correspondence with her has been very nice, too. More links for you...just a sampling of what I have bookmarked...many, many very nice places well within your budget.
http://www.bopha-angkor.com/gallery.html
http://www.peaceofangkor.com/ToursMini.htm
http://www.angkor-lanoria.com/uk/contactuk.htm
http://www.mysteres-angkor.com/english/default.htm
http://www.hoteldelapaixangkor.com/poolside.php
http://www.shintamani.com/index.php
http://www.palmvillage.com.kh/gallery.php
http://www.lavillaloti.com/
http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-twodragons.htm

Three places would be enough for me. If you wanted the limestone formations in the sea, you might add Hanoi or Krabi. I personally would stick with 3 places.

Kathie

While LP and Siem Reap sound so tempting, I'd recommend against doing them in the same trip if you are concerned about getting "templed out." If you are a temple fanatic it would be perfect, otherwise. mix it up a bit more.

Let me also suggest the "picture is worth a thousand words" approach to helping with choices. You can see photos of many of the places you are considering at www.marlandc.com

degas

glorialf & rhkkmk, you are right, the beaches have to go.

Kim, thanks for all the links - loads of good info there.

Kathie, thanks for a look at all those great pictures. You do get around.

eurotraveller

Degas, here is a link to some photos I took of Thailand and Cambodia. Just go to those particular photo albums. I took photos of most of the accomodations and set up a separate photo album for them.

www.windjammer.smugmug.com

Enjoy!

orgy7

option 33 1/4 honoi, siem reap (angkor wat), chiang mai (markets), chiang rai (hill tirbes).

LP is a cool town but you may get a similar experiance in chiang rai.

vietnam airlines flies to siam reap daily

http://www.cambodia-airports.com/sie...metables=go%21

Guenmai

Welcome over to the Asia board, Degas. I read your comments in the Paris section of the Europe board. Anyhow, if you just click on my name, there's tons of comments on Thailand/S.E.Asia that I've written. I'm a regular on this board. Happy Travels!

hawaiiantraveler

degas:

Are you in Hawaii? If so come to the hnl gtg on Aug 26, see link below

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34812288

you can ask all these questions in person for all of our "asian expert" attendees. Kathie may even show up

Aloha!

Kathie

I'm still watching those ticket prices, HT!

kuranosuke

kathie, and i thought you gave up. lol.

degas, you in hi?? i've read a couple of your postings on the euro board, very funny, and well written. i thought you lived on the ec.

yes, by all means, join us at the gtg.

CFW

degas, We loved the beach resorts we have been to in Thailand and like to end our vacation that way, but I agree that coming from Hawaii you should definately skip the beach. Based on your interests, I think Chiang Mai & Northern Thailand are a must - elephants, nature, waterfalls, hilltribes and traditional dancing, cooking classes, great spas & massages, and orchid gardens (outside of Chiang Mia & at Doi Tung in the Golden Triangle area near Chiang Rai. If you can swing it stay at the Anantara Golden Triangle -- do a search on this forum.) I also agree that in the time you have you should not try to squeeze in more than 3 places. You'll have a wonderful time & will want to return to Asia for more...

IsisMnroe

Degas: I really enjoyed reading your posts on the Europe Board when I was frequenting the Europe Board a couple of years ago.

Yes, please come to the HNL GTG 8/26/06 if you can make it.

degas

Appreciate all the additional feedback.


Yes, I'm in Hawaii and loving it. The GTG sounds grand. but business travel will prevent it this time. If my schedule clears, I'd love to join you fine folks.

I got back from Italy recently and some of you might like to click on my name and read my trip report.

sharich

Here's a spanner in the works! Have you considered Malaysia?
You can go to Sabah,do a treck up Mt Kinabalu, see the orangutan,also you can go to where the giant turtles come ashore to lay their eggs; then go to Kuching and do a river excursion in a long boat visiting local villages and even staying in the Longhouses along the way. You can top it off with a few nights in Langkawi which does have beautiful beaches and some interesting sightseeing too.
If you to go to Halong Bay, be sure to do one of the overnight trips on the Junks, it is a wonderful experience.
Siem Reap is realy just for the temples, however on my first trip there I visitied an orphanage and as a result together with friends set up a fund raising foundation which you can see if you visit our web sitewww.riceforcambodia.org
there are some good pictures there of Angkor Watt too.
If you do go to Siem Reap and want to visit Green Gecko Foundation; a school for street kids or an orphanage I can arrange a visit for you, it is a wonderful experience.
Have fun!