China: on our own

Great report. Looking forward to the rest.

May I ask how much Jerry charge for a one-day trip to Mutianyu and the Ming Tombs?

Jerry charged $125 for a full day trip. He's a very intelligent entrepreneur who is regaining footing after business setbacks. We had interesting, far reaching discussions. (He is a licensed guide.)

Hi Marija,
Very interesting and helpful in planning my trip in the Spring.
Thanks.

I anguished over whether to book airline tickets and hotels prior to arriving in China (more than even where to eat Beijing duck). I'd read a lot of advice to wait, since there would be considerable price savings. On the other hand, I was concerned about encountering full flights and hotels, and especially about being stranded in Yichang, the end point of the Yangtze cruise. I ended up booking all internal flights, a couple of hotels, the Victoria Yangtze cruise, and a couple of tour guides through www.wacts.com. There were a couple of recommendations from this site for wacts, but what really sold me on them was their willingness to accept credit cards. This meant if they failed to deliver as promised, I could dispute their charges and would not be much worse off than if I had failed to book at all. I kept a careful record of our correspondence, making sure to outline all of the details of what they were to deliver.

In retrospect I think that booking in advance was a very wise decision which saved us considerable aggravation. Internal flights in China are much more fluid than those in the US. Flights are cancelled, combined and times are changed, especially for flights from smaller cities. Wacts representatives in China knew of the changes and delivered "updated" tickets at several points during our trip. Initially this was pretty alarming, since I wanted them to just give us all of the tickets for the flights we had selected. They delayed, saying some flights were still in flux. This sounded strange and I was unsure whether we would really get the tickets. We did and were so grateful that our tickets reflected reality. For example, we were told that the flight we wanted at the end of the cruise was cancelled and we would have to take a later one. One of the tour groups on the cruise was unaware of the cancellation and had to wait for a much later flight than ours. Three of the hotels we stayed in were completely full during our stay. If we had just showed up trying to score "the best" rate we would have been turned away.

Our first internal flight was from Beijing to Xian, early in the morning. For unknown reasons the Peninsula told us transport to the airport was included in our rate (an AMEX perk?), so we took the hotel car. Check in was easy. Signs and announcements were both in Chinese and English. We arrived in Xian at 10:30, as scheduled. Since we were only spending a day in Xian, I had a guide and driver meet us at the airport ($80) and take us to the warriors. The guide’s English was limited, though she was majoring in English. That didn’t really matter to us, since our concern was getting to the warriors and then to our hotel, the Hyatt in Xian. If we weren’t on a tight schedule, I would have just taken a cab from the hotel without bothering with a guide. Since we had luggage, I decided that it would be too complicated to try to explain to a cabdriver that we wanted to go to the warriors, have him wait for us and then take us to the hotel. (I did have all of that written out in Chinese in case the guide wasn’t there.)

We arrived at the warriors during lunchtime, which meant that the tour groups were eating and we had a good unobstructed visit with the eighth wonder of the world (as our guide consistently called it). Truly remarkable. The warrior site is mobbed with vendors and I somehow ended up with two sets of miniatures and a large statue of Qin himself (total cost $1). (Qin now joins Otzi, the iceman from Bolzano, and a botafumero from Santiago de Compostela on my computer. They remind me of why I work!)

After the warriors, the guide took us to the Wild Goose pagoda and the Xian city wall. She was eager to show us more, but we were ready to go to the hotel. The Hyatt, except for its questionable taxi dealings, was quite satisfactory. It is, however, within a construction zone, as is most of China. Even though it is within the city walls, it is quite far from the action of the city center (drum tower, etc.). I would have liked to stay closer to the center. We took a cab to eat a dumpling dinner at Defachang. There was no English menu but the decision was just how many types of dumplings you wanted to sample. I think we opted for 12. We also ordered tea from a separate tea menu. I was somewhat concerned about how this would work since I’ve been warned about “tea scams.” In particular, I wondered if we were going to be charged for each cup poured. That turned out to be a needless concern. Seems that the same tea leaves can be used for many cups of tea, and we were charged for a single pot. After dinner we wandered the market around the Bell Tower and Mosque before giving up and going to bed. We would have liked to spend another day in Xian, but we had to leave early the next morning so we could see Dazu before boarding the Yangtze boat.

Great report. I anxiously await more.

Really enjoying your trip report and looking forward to the rest.

Is Dazu crowded now? I went there in 1992 when it was a bone jarring 6 hour ride from Chongqing each direction, but we were rewarded with the fact that there wasn't a single other visitor there

love your report and am taking notes...looking forward to the rest

Our original plan was to fly to Chongqing in the afternoon of the second day in Xian. The next day, before boarding the Yangtze boat, we intended to go to Dazu to see the Buddhist carvings. The unavailability of the post-cruise flight from Yichang to Shanghai required us to change our plans and move the cruise up a day, as described later--which forced us to take an early flight to Chongqing, go directly to Dazu from the airport, and not spend a night in Chongqing at all. The change was done shortly before we left so it didn’t pose problems. However, it did mean that we had to have a guide and driver lined up in advance to meet us at the airport in Chongqing. Otherwise I would have looked for a guide/driver in Chongqing. Wacts.com lined up a personable young guide, Ricky, who spoke very good colloquial English. Like our guide in Xian he was an English major at a local university. (Cost of the Dazu excursion for a guide, driver and admittance to Baoding was $220. I originally thought the cost was pretty steep, but they both put in a very full day. I’m not sure we could have done better, especially for the quality of the guide.)

Dazu is almost 3 hours one way from the Chongqing airport. However, it was a pleasant drive (since we weren’t driving) and we enjoyed seeing the countryside and talking to Ricky. Before we left for China I had thrown a box of Granola bars into the suitcase. That’s something I had never done before, since food is an important component of our travels and we always enjoy a leisurely lunch. The granola bars came in very handy this time since we had them for lunch at the Great Wall, Xian and Dazu. Even my must-be-fed husband understood that we didn’t have time to stop for lunch.

We told Ricky that we wanted to start with the most impressive site and went directly to Baoding (Treasure Peak) Mountain. (We’ve learned that when you travel you don’t want to delay hitting up the most important sites, since you never know what impediments you may encounter later.) There are more than 50,000 sculpted figures scattered over 75 places in Dazu county. One site alone, Baoding, has more than 10,000 sculptures created under the direction of a local Buddhist monk during the Southern Song dynasty. The grottos in Baoding demonstrate Buddhist teachings and are absolutely incredible. For example, the statue of Thousand-Arm Avalokitesvara has 1007 arms, all with different gestures, covering an area of 88 square meters. (OK I didn’t count but that’s what my book says!) We certainly don’t regret the time and expense to see Baoding. It was one of the highlights. We spent quite a bit of time at Baoding so we didn’t go to any of the other Dazu sites. We probably should have, but we still had a long trip back to Chongqing and didn’t want to linger too long, lest we miss the boat.

We got back to Chongqing without any problems and still had several hours before the cutoff for boarding the boat. (The Victoria boats can be boarded from early afternoon until 9:00 PM on the day of the sailing.) Ricky took us to a park which is supposed to have a lookout over the confluence of the Yangtze and the Jialing rivers. The viewing tower was closed since the park was under renovation for some large conference of leaders taking place in Chongqing in October. We then went to a tea house and were instructed on proper tea behavior. The last stop before dinner was for a foot massage. We’ve never had one before and were dubious when Ricky suggested that we get hour long massages. How can you massage feet for an hour?! Well, we hoped the hour would never come to an end. (The cost was something like 100 RMB each.)

The last event was a Chongqing hotpot dinner. (Dinner is not served the first night on board.) We had agreed in advance that we would NOT eat the traditional hotpot in Chongqing, since we were concerned about untoward gastrointestinal consequences. Nevertheless, the temptation was too great and we succumbed. We like spicy food and have enjoyed no problems with the spicy hotpots we’ve encountered before, but they are chicken broth compared to Chongqing hotpots! Your whole mouth goes numb. Your lips tingle. You can only imagine what it’s doing to your other organs. Didn’t stop us, though. We cooked all kinds of fish, lamb, vegetables and whatever else was presented. We figured we had three nights on a boat to recuperate…. Fortunately, we had no ill effects.

Like with the Beijing duck and airline tickets, I had agonized about whether to do the Yangtze cruise, what boat to take and whether to buy tickets in advance. Despite Peter’s admonitions about inauthentic tourist ripoffs, we decided to give it a try. There seems to be general agreement (based on much surfing of travel sites) that the best route is Chongqing to Yichang. It’s three night, two and a half days. There’s not much to look at past Yichang as confirmed by talking to people we met who went all the way to Wuhan. The most “luxurious” boats were supposedly the Victoria fleet (based in NY) and the East Queen/East King. Bill Gates took the East King; the Victoria boats have balconies; there’s disagreement over who has the best food; the shore excursions may or may not be the same…. After much indecision, we finally decided on the Victoria line, swayed by the private balconies. No doubt, if there was availability we could probably have gotten the best rates if we booked in Chongqing. But we needed more than just the boat, we had to get out of Yichang when the cruise is over. You definitely don’t want to stay in Yichang more than you absolutely have to! It’s claim to fame is that it’s the end point of the Yangtze cruises. Nothing to see, nothing to do there, except wait for a flight out. (OK there is a museum of stuff found during preparation for the dam building.)

I looked at prices on the Victoria cruises website and was appalled. The listed price is $900 per person. I made inquires to various websites and found that the real rate, when bought through a tour agency, was somewhere around $500 per person. I got a quote from wacts.com for $530 per person. I decided to go with wacts, since they would reserve the flight as well. But even they had problems getting the flight on the day we wanted, since tour groups book the flights solid. We moved the cruise date up a day to match an available flight.

Next, life aboard the Victoria Queen.

I am planning a two week trip to China at the end of this November. Your report is very helpful and I am looking forward to the rest.

Especially interested in your comments on the Victoria Cruise. Still undecided on this. Thanks for all the info and taking the time to post.

The only cruise we had every taken, prior to this one, was an overnight trip on Doubtful Sound in New Zealand, so I can’t make any comparisons of the Victoria cruise to other river cruises. We were dropped off at the boat dock at about 8:00 PM and greeted by Victoria staff who lined the walkway. (Beware, there’s a lot of traffic around the dock so allow plenty of time for getting there.) Checking in was similar to a hotel, no lines, no waiting. We were shown to our standard issue cabin: twin beds, bathtub, desk, TV. It wasn’t opulent but it was certainly adequate. At 9:30, Marian, the Swiss “boat mother” of the Victoria Queen welcomed everyone aboard and outlined the rules of ship life. (The Victoria line has a fleet of ships, the newest is the Katarina.) There was a daily schedule outlining activities: a shore excursion each day, several talks (history of kites in China, painting of the insides of bottles, dam constructions). There were also fashion shows and other evening events. No report on these since we only went on the shore excursions. People who went to the talks and entertainment thought they were enjoyable. The boat was only about half full, even though it was high season, so we it’s likely we could have gotten a good deal on passage in Chongqing or maybe even on the boat but there was no way to know that.

Early the first morning, I went to get a hairdryer from the front desk (none in the room) and noticed a sign advertising that room upgrades were available. On the Victoria web site junior suites and deluxe suites are insanely priced. A deluxe suite is $1780 per person. Always curious I asked what an upgrade would cost and was told $800 (total for 2 people) for the remaining deluxe suite. That still seemed high to me so I declined. On the way back to the room I inadvertently passed by the open door of the remaining deluxe suite (there are 2 on this boat) and decided that it looked mighty fine. A standard cabin is 211 sq.ft.; the deluxe suite is 458 sq.ft., with separate shower, marble bath, large sitting area and expansive windows and balconies. I quickly realized that I had forgotten what I had already learned in China: you always bargain. Anyway, we got the deluxe suite for $500, partly on the argument that we had already spent the first night in a standard room. It was still expensive but I comforted myself with the most potent of the usual rationalizations: someday our heirs would no doubt spend our hard-earned money much more frivolously than we do! The suite was the major reason why we didn’t actively participate in many shipboard activities. We enjoyed sitting in our room, watching the shoreline go by.

The staff onboard is excellent. Helen, our cabin attendant, memorized our names the first evening and greeted us thereafter by name, with a smile. Meals on the Victoria Queen are eaten at assigned tables. Breakfast and lunch are buffets. Dinner is served family style at the tables. We were very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the food. There was good variety, both Chinese and European, and the food was well prepared. We had picked up a couple of bottles of drinkable Chinese wine in Chongqing, so we were able to indulge ourselves in that regard. Table service was as good as we could have hoped, friendly and efficient.

We enjoyed talking with our tablemates. All of them were either on an organized tour or a CTS (China Travel Service, the government-sponsored agency) "individual tour"--meaning that they had handlers who met them everywhere and guided their activities, including lots of shopping. One of the couples lamented the robotic quality of these guides, their total lack of interest in them. We had a completely different experience, since we deliberately did not deal with CTS. Our guides were intensely interested in the USA. They asked endless questions about our lives, they wanted to talk about everything. Our Xian guide was desperate to practice her English and conversed with us without pause for hours, asking us to correct her mistakes. She was particularly interested in discussing DINKs, a word which came up with other guides as well! There must be a lot of emphasis on this concept in China. The one alarming issue that all of the guides brought up, without any prompting from us, was their hatred of the Japanese. Scary…

The shore excursions were to a pagoda high on a cliffside; up a tributary of the Yangtze ("Little Three Gorges"); and ashore to view the site of the gigantic Three Gorges dam. They were well organized and reasonably interesting. The Little Three Gorges excursion, culminating in a sampan trip up (what else?) the Tiny Three Gorges, was a pleasant change of pace. We probably could have done without the villagers perched on hillsides or in trees to sing or play as we passed, but they no doubt were compensated by Victoria Cruises, or maybe by the Chinese government, and they probably needed the work. The water level in the Gorges had already risen by something like 25 meters, and by 2009 will rise by another 40. Locally the social costs of the Three Gorges dam are staggering, the broader economic benefits are enormous, and this is not the place to render a verdict on the project. (As if my opinion could make a difference. The Three Gorges dam is a project on a scale imaginable only in China. It will displace 1.2 million people before it is done. Many have already lost their traditional livelihoods and are now, well, sitting in trees singing to tourists.)

We are both pleased to have taken the Yangtze cruise and the Victoria line exceeded our expectation. It was also a great way to take a breather from the cities and relax a bit. We had arranged with wacts.com a transfer from the boat to the airport in Yichang ($30). I did this because I couldn’t find any information about whether we could just hail a cab at the dock in Yichang. It turned out that there are plenty of cabs around and there is no need to pay high rates for a transfer. (Still, at that place and time the feeling of security was probably worth $30.)

The airport was about 45 minutes away from the dock. The Yichang airport is small and under renovation, not a place you want to linger. We spent three hours there waiting for our flight, as our fellow passengers on the Victoria Queen showed up, in large or small groups, many still dazed from the local museum and shops, to catch one of the small number of flights out of Yichang.

Next, fleeing Yichang for Shanghai.

Marija - Based on your recommendation I booked tickets with wacts.com. I used their website which gave me a price. The price was listed as "Total Price: US$800 (flight price + airport tax + credit card banking fee)". When I sent in the confirmation they also had a $24 booking fee. I agreed to pay this and sent them the credit card info. They now want to charge me an extra 5% for using the credit card. I e-mailed them and said I didn't think I should pay more because the total amount listed a credit card banking fee. Did you have this type of problem with them?

(Sorry, I know this is misplaced but I knew Marija would see it here.)

I am wary that this is common practice in China that you agree to a deal and then they try to tack on additional fees to increase their profit. I will be watching for this on our trip.

I looked at my correspondence and we did not pay anything itemized as a "booking fee." We did pay a 4% credit card fee which appears to be fairly standard for prebooking with credit cards with Chinese operators who accept payment in dollars. Since I was being billed in dollars, not RMB, I didn't have to pay the usual foreign currency conversion charges that my credit card imposes. I wanted the protection of using a credit card, so I paid it. In China, we didn't encounter any tacking on of fees, except for a strange $1 per person per night fee at the Sheraton in Guilin. Since our total came to $4, I just didn't bother investigating that.

Marija - Thanks for the info. Wacts wants to charge me a $24 booking fee plus a 5% fee for the credit card. The explained that their website has a mistake when the quoted price includes the credit card fee. I am looking for alternative places to buy my tickets as I don't feel that they are dealing with me fairly.

Marija-

Out of curiosity- do you think you saved a great deal of money by booking this all on your own?

I am planning a trip to China with my mother next fall, and I want to cover all the sites that you have covered...but I just feel that with a 19 day tour costing $4k US, how much could I really save by doing all the work on my own and looking for reputable touring companies.

Thanks!

Audsquad,
I'm not the OP but I think what's more important than the cost factor is which mode of travel do you actually prefer. Are you the type of person who typically enjoys independent travel and the type of planning (and possible mishaps along the way - which turn into great travel stories BTW ) that go along with that? Or do you prefer structured group tours where you have all of the details taken care of for you, but maybe not as much choice in what you want to do? I'm not a tour person, so I wouldn't consider that an option even if it means saving money overall.

There's also the possibility of arranging an 'independent' tour where your hotels, transportation, and perhaps one or two tours are included, but you're on your own the rest of the time and not traveling in a group environment. This would take care of the larger details but give you a little more freedom and choice in deciding what to do each day.

There's quite a range of accomodations, transportation options, etc. in China and you can travel as inexpensively or expensively as you want.

Thanks for the reply- well stated.

I do not consider myself a tour person at all. However- I will be travelling with my mother (age 60)- and she prefers to have the whole trip laid out for her and to not have to worry.

If this were a trip I was taking on my own with my husband or my favorite travel buddy from college (whom I traveled across the US and backpacked across europe with) we would do it on our own! I just wasn't sure of the choice to create your own itinerary was driven by saving money.

I think we will go the tour route- but I will be very careful to select a tour with a small group and one that allows us the freedom to see sites on our own at times- rather than a strict agenda.

Thanks again for your reply!

We traveled on our own not to save money but to be in control of what we did and when we did it. We wanted to choose accomodations, meals and everything else. We also wanted to interact with the Chinese, not other Americans. Our trip was fairly high-end but we paid considerably less than A&K and some of the alumni group tours we had looked at charge for shorter trips using the same hotels.

Our flight to Shanghai, like all our flights in China, was uneventful. We landed in Hong Qiao airport, which is only 8 miles southwest of the city center. There are two separate cab lines, one for short distances and one for long. Somehow the trip to the city center is considered long. The line moved quickly and soon we were at the JW Marriott on Tomorrow Square. The hotel lobby is on the 38th floor, our corner room on the 52nd floor. What a view! We were pleased with the room, location, and service at the Marriott. The breakfast buffet was exceptional. Our only complaint was with the wind noise the second night. Our guess that poor construction was responsible was challenged when we read the morning paper and found out that a typhoon had passed near Shanghai that night! (Both airports were closed, which meant that we would have had to spend the night in the Yichang airport if we had taken the Yangtze cruise on the date we wanted!)

In Shanghai we saw an acrobat performance at the Shanghai Center theater, across the street from the hotel. Definitely worth while. Our most memorable meal in Shanghai was at 1221, a recommendation from this board. It's a bit far from the center (might have cost us $4 to get there!), but the food was exceptional. We also had excellent dim sum at Crystal Jade in Xintiandi (2nd floor, above MacDonalds). Our splurge meal was at Whampoa Club on the Bund, which features "modern" Shanghainese cuisine (ask for a window table). We had the chef's special dinner which included shark fin soup and other delicacies we hadn't sampled yet. The room was striking, the food unusual but good. Prior to dinner we had drinks at the rooftop bar of the Peace Hotel, admiring the astonishing Pudong skyline. We also ate at Shanghai Uncle, which had excellent slow roasted pork. The last night we went for drinks at the Grand Hyatt in Pudong, atop the tallest building in Shanghai. The view is worth the trip, but it took us almost an hour to get there from the JW Marriott in the late afternoon. Getting back to the Bund by taxi also took a half hour. There must be some quick way to cross the river other than the Disneylike tunnel (which my husband was enamored with) but taxi wasn't it. Perhaps the subway.

Although we're not really shoppers we did go to the "fakes" market (Xiang yang Road Market). Our assumption was that everything is a fake and I bargained accordingly, never paying more than 50 RMB for anything. It was a strange tactic: regardless of the initial asking price, I countered with what I thought would be a ridiculously low price and refused to budge. It drove them nuts but after much sound and fury they often agreed. (I paid 40 RMB ($5) for alleged Gucci wallets.) Ever since we saw an exhibit of Chinese ancestor paintings, we've been longing to acquire some. The Yu Yuan market provided us with "antique" paintings of somebody's long lost Chinese ancestors who are now proudly displayed in our family room.

We certainly weren't disappointed in Shanghai, despite the negative comments it receives on the board. Yes, it's different from Beijing but it's "real" China as much as Beijing is.

Next, the honeymoon destination of China

Yep, the metro would've gotten you back and forth much quicker.

We have a Chinese friend from the Hangzhou area who thinks West Lake is the most beautiful place on earth. The books say it's the honeymoon destination of China. Easily swayed, we went there by train from Shanghai (2 hr.; $6 per person soft seat). The Marriott got us the tickets for an additional $6. The train station was easy to navigate, though English was less prevalent than at the airports. Train attendants are not idle: they try to sell you toys, books, as well as food. It's actually quite entertaining. We took a metered cab from the cab stand outside the Hangzhou train station to the Shangri La hotel. Instead of arriving at an idyllic waterfront, we arrived in the middle of a large city, most of it under construction. The traffic to the hotel was intense. We had reserved a lake view room, but the lake view included the Hangzhou skyline, so it was probably not worth the premium. The hotel grounds are vast. It's divided into separate wings, east and west. The rooms were large and dated, but clean. That was good enough for us.

The West Lake area was also all torn up everywhere. We got up at 5:00 each morning to go strolling around the lake and watch the Chinese morning exercises. We went to the silk market; to the Ling yin temple (hard to find cabs back when it closes at 6:00); to a teahouse; and we took a boat ride on West Lake. We were also able to fit in a massage at the Shangri La. At the tea house we drank the highest grade of Longjing tea. Unfortunately, our western taste buds were insensitive to the fine nuances. It tasted like boiled water. However, we could taste the flavor in less delicate Longjing tea. (We discussed this with a Chinese friend in Hong Kong who says he has the same problems with French wines. He can't taste the difference between "the best" and "good." Fortunately--or not--we can taste differences in French wines.)

We ate both dinners at the Shangri La. The first, in the Coffee Garden cafe, featured a special Asian dinner by some locally renowned chef. It was rather pedestrian. The second was at the Shang Palace restaurant and was considerably better. We ate water shield soup, dongpo pork and other regional specialties.

After two relaxing days in Hangzhou we flew to Guilin. (Hangzhou was the only place where our cards were rejected by an ATM. At the airport, you can get cash by going to the machine in front of the international terminal. I was unsure how we were going to get to the Sheraton, but we just jumped into a metered cab and for 80 RMB we quickly took a deserted new highway to the Sheraton. That was the emptiest road we saw in China! The Sheraton has seen better days, but it was clean and the staff friendly. (We had a river view room but there's very little river to view.)

As soon as we arrived we set out in search of tickets for a Li river boat ride for the next day. The cab driver had presented my husband with a CTS agent on the phone attempting to sell a cruise on the way into town, but he had declined. The hotel wanted 550 RMB per person for the boat ride. The Li cruise is why people come to Guilin. From what I had read, I expected us to be trampled by people selling cruises. That wasn't the case. Instead we made our way to one of many little storefronts selling cruises. After skillful negotiation (hah!) we settled on a price of 325 RMB per person for an "English boat." Supposedly that was a better boat than the Chinese boat for 280 RMB. We had to pay upfront and in return they gave us some sort of receipt written in Chinese and said they would pick us up at our hotel the next morning. The agents were unwilling to sell us tickets for the evening boat to see cormorant fishing, claiming that the tickets were all gone.

We sought the advice of the Sheraton concierge for obtaining cormorant fishing tickets. He told us to come to the desk at 8:00 PM and he would talk to a taxi on our behalf. He was astonished that we were on our own, without the benefit of official guides or tour groups. By that point it was easy to assure him that we were doing just fine!

We ate a very good dinner at the Sheraton's Cantonese restaurant. After dinner we went back to the concierge and he told us that for 30 RMB a cab would take us to the waterfront from which boats leave and wait for us to return. He said the going rate for cormorant viewing was 80 RMB pp, but that we should negotiate for a better deal. Sure enough the cabbie took us to the dock and somehow managed to get us on a chartered boat that was solely inhabited by a French tour group (60 RMB pp). We interpreted his sign of finger over the mouth to keep a low profile on the boat since we were probably not supposed to be there. It was kind of hokey since this entire boatload of several dozen tourists follows a single fisherman and his birds. But it was quite interesting and we were happy to have snuck on the boat. Upon our return the cabbie was waiting and took us back to the hotel.

We stopped at the Sheraton bar for bedtime drinks and admired an intricately embroidered robe hanging on the wall. We knew it would look great on a wall in our entryway at home. The next morning, while waiting for the bus for the river boat, we stopped in the hotel gift shop which featured a very similar robe. They asked some ridiculous price, I offered 800 RMB which they laughed at, and we parted ways.

The bus for the Li cruise was a couple of minutes late, enough for me to wonder whether I had really screwed things up by striking a deal with some unknown vendor. I figured if the bus didn't show we could catch a cab to the boat dock (about 40 minutes away down the river) and try to get on a boat there. Fortunately, the bus showed up. We picked up people at several hotels and made our way downriver to the starting point of the river cruise.

We were not alone on the river. There were at least 30 boats laden with tourists making their way to Yangshou. The four-plus hour boat ride was extraordinarily picturesque and worth the trip to Guilin. (My husband still regrets not getting a photo of a man riding a water buffalo in the river, but we were eating lunch!) We had decided not to eat on the boat, because of reported questionable sanitary practices for washing dishes. We started not eating by picking at some rice and before you knew it we were eating along with everyone else on the boat. Maybe the dishes were washed in river water but by then our digestive systems were getting to be Chinese…

Due to the large number of boats, it took us a good half hour once we reached Yangshou to dock and get off the boat. We had a half hour in Yangshou before boarding the bus for the one and a half hour ride back to Guilin. Yangshou seemed to be just an endless procession of vendors. After dumping my husband in a [surprisingly good--DH] coffeeshop, I managed to buy a robe, more intricate than the one at the Sheraton, for 500 RMB. A google search upon our return identified it as a ceremonial Dong Dragon robe. It has found an admired home in our entryway, looking even better than we envisioned.

Upon our return to the hotel we were too exhausted to attempt anything but dinner and drinks. (Not strictly true: my husband managed to slip in the shower and bang up his side.) The next morning we took an early taxi to the airport and were on the 8:20 flight to Shenzhen. The flight to Shenzhen was quite a bit cheaper than the flight to Hong Kong, but the main reason for going via Shenzhen was our ability to catch an early flight there. The direct flight for Hong Kong didn't leave until evening. We arrived in Shenzhen at 9:30. Our original plan was to take the 12:30 ferry, but we decided to just take the bus which was at the door of the terminal (100HK pp). We had to remove our luggage twice from the bus to go through border control but we got to Kowloon quickly. We caught a taxi from the bus terminal to the Intercontinental and were there by noon. Make sure to change your Chinese RMB to Hong Kong dollars before taking a cab. Hong Kong cabbies don't want RMB.

The Intercontinental is right on the water with expansive view of the Hong Kong skyline. Our room was on the third floor with floor to ceiling windows and French doors to a private terrace. The room was not one of the "updated" ones, but the incredible view made up for it.

There's a lot of info on the board about Hong Kong so I have little to contribute. We ate at the Tang Dynasty (superb) and some incredible harbor restaurant where you choose your seafood at a market and it is delivered to the restaurant of your choice, that my husband's college roommate, a Hong Kong resident, took us to. I wandered the night market, polishing my bargaining skills. We had some great dim sum at the Luk Yu teahouse, the oldest in Hong Kong.

After Hong Kong there followed a quick ride to the airport (300HK), an uneventful flight to Chicago, and an enduring feeling of real satisfaction for doing China our way.

The End

Marija, just wanted to thank you for probably the most informative and helpful trip report of the very many I've read on this and other sites. Like you were want to do China "on our own". You seem to have taken a very similar trip to the one we have planned for this Nov also from Chicago. Now looking back, anything you would change along the way, more or less time, different hotels? What was your best and worst memory? You've already helped us a ton, but any feedback on our proposed itinerary would also really be appreciated: 2 nights/1 day in Shanghai (Grand Hyatt), 1 night/1 day Guilin (Sheraton), 1 night/1 day Yangshou (Paradise), 4 nights/3 days Hong Kong (Intercontinental), 2 nights/1 day Lijiang (Zen Garden Hotel), 4 nights/3 days Beijing (Pen). We are also going to use WACTS.com for our internal airfare and some of your guides. How did you communicate with them once in China? They seemed very nice, knowledgeable and patient and quoted us the 5% Credit Card fee, $6 per ticket fee and a $10 hotel delivery charge. Seems pretty fair to me compared to what other agents charge. Thanks again! Really glad you had such a great time!

What a great and detailed trip report. Thanks for sharing!

We were happy with the amount of time we allocated to the different cities: Beijing (5 nights); Xian (1); Yangtze cruise (3); Shanghai (4); Hangzhou (2); Guilin (2) and Hong Kong (3). I found both Beijing and Shanghai more interesting than Hong Kong and would consider cutting a night from a 4 night Hong Kong stay. We are really pleased that we had the opportunity to see the terra cotta warriors, even though we only spent a day in Xian. It was worth the effort.

When we had to communicate with wacts in China, I had the Peninsula call the wacts China number. Since the first call involved having to change flight times because of flight cancellations, the Chinese office had Kay from the Chicago office call us right back. We corresponded by e-mail about the Shanghai ticket delivery. (They seemed to have added all kinds of additional charges in the couple of weeks we've been back. We didn't pay delivery charges or ticket fees and the credit card charge was 4%. It's possible that all of those charges were included in the cost of our tickets.) I hope you have a great trip and if you have any questions, do ask!

Marija, how did you book the Zen Garden in Lijiang? And for that matter, your other hotels?

We didn't stay in Lijang, so I didn't book the Zen Garden. I booked most of our hotels online, except for the Hyatt in Xian and the Sheraton in Guilin. Wacts.com gave us a better price on those two than the websites, so I went with wacts.com for those.

Marija: greazt report! Thanks for sharing!

It's always good to visit familiar cities looking through someone else's eyes. Makes me feel as if they are new cities! Thanks for taking me along!

Marija: I have been to China many times but have never taken a trip such as yours. The choice of cities is excellent. We plan to go back and visit the cities in your sequence. Thanks for taking the time to write such a great comprehensive report. It is very helpful.

Yours is not the first review to indicate you were upgraded at the Peninsula Palace. I am working out my reservation for 10 nights in late December. I can't decide if I should reserve and pay for the club level or chance the free upgrade. Got any insight???

We booked through Amex Platinum. Upgrades, when available, are one of the "perks" of the card. The club floor was great.

Hello,
Im going to Beijing this winter and I tried to e-mail your driver and got an error message. Are you sure that e-mail address is right?

Yes, the e-mail address is correct. Others complained about problems so I sent Jerry e-mail and checked that the address was still working. He responded. For some reason, e-mail doesn't always go through in China. Keep trying. Also make sure that your e-mail program will accept foreign characters in responses.

I enjoyed reading about your China Trip. My husband and I also travel extensively. We are going to be in China this December for the first time. We visited Hong Kong and Macau last year.
I was wondering if you could give us advise regarding our itin.
We have 15 days and 14 nights to spend in China. We land and depart from Beijing and would like to visit Beijing, Shanghai, Xian, Guilin and Hangzhou for sure. We are debating between Huang Shan and Lijiang.
We are also open to other suggestions for towns to visit. We don't like to hurry visiting cities but would like to see different sides of Chinese life.
Appreciate any response.
Thanks.

I have no idea what China is like in December, so I can't offer any advice except to stay warm. Hope you have a great trip!

Thanks for yr reply.

I created a new website called
Firsthand Travel Story , where you can post your trip reports.

http://www.firsthandtravelstory.com

I really enjoyed reading your travelogue and I am now planning our "Independent China Tour". I have a couple of questions about your booking. Did you book the hotels from AMEX Platinum? If not, what website did you use? So, am I right that you did all of your hotels on your own and used local guides from Wacts.com as well as booked your internal flights from wacts.com?
Thank you so much for your advice!

Great report. Thanks!

hbso--
We booked the Peninsula in Beijing and the Intercontinental in Hong Kong using Amex, since it gave us perks. We booked the JW Marriott in Shanghai on its website. Wacts got us better rates on the Guilin and Xian hotels than we found online so we booked with them. Our Beijing guide we found online. The Xian and Chongqing guides were booked through wacts.com. All flights were from wacts.com. Have a great time!

What a fantastic trip report! I am meeting my daughter in Shanghai in 2 weeks. She is arriving from Bankok and I from U.S. Any input on where we can meet up in the Pudong Airport?
Also, I have contacted wacts re: internal flights. They told me they'd charge 4% for the credit card, $10 delivery charge & $2 per ticket booking fee. Given your great experience, I will go with them! Thanks again; I have printed your log and will take w/me.

Marija, can you please tell me if you used James (Jerry) for only the Wall Tour? Who did you use as a guide for the other cities?
Thanks!

Marija! Thank you so much for sharing your wonderful tour! We are very excited...we will also go to Zhondian, Dali and Lijiang as well as Guilin, Xian, Beijing and Shanghai! In Guilin, we are trying to book the Modern Art Hotel! Should be interesting! Again, thanks for your input it is so helpful!

We used Jerry only for an airport pickup and the Great Wall/Ming Tombs trip. We took cabs everywhere else in Beijing. We had guides/drivers in Xian and Chongqing, for the drive to Dazu. We reserved them from www.wacts.com. The Dazu guide was excellent, the Xian guide was adequate. Since we used non-CTS guides we met some very interesting people and didn't have to make shopping stops!

Marija - how much did Jerry charge for the trip to the Great Wall? Thanks!

Marija,
Who arrannged your car+driver+guide in Xian? Also, do you recommend getting JW Marriot to arrange a car for pick-up from PVG or is taking a taxi ok? The hotel is discouraging us from taking a taxi? Do you have recommendation on arranging car+driver for airport pick-up and for tour guides in Shanghai and Beijing? Wats?

Our car and driver in Xian was arranged by wacts.com. You don't need to arrange for airport pickup. Just make sure you have the name and address of your hotel in Chinese characters and that the driver uses the meter. The guide we used in Beijing was Jerry whose e-mail is
jamesjuebj@yahoo.com.cn.
He did pick us up from airport when we arrived in Beijing and that cost $25. We arranged the airport pickup primarily to audition Jerry and see if we wanted him to take us to the Great Wall. We thought he was great. Shanghai was easy to explore on our own. We just took a cab from the airport to the JW Marriott. Prearranged transfers, especially by hotels, are unduly expensive. They just jack up the cab fare!

Thanks Marija. BTW, what is the difference between a NON CTS and WACTS guide? Did you try the guides through the hotel? Any good? Also, you mentioned Jerry was licensed (or atleast I thought I read that). How does one go about finding that out?

A non CTS guide is one who doesn't work for the government travel agency China Travel Service. Guides provided by wacts didn't work for CTS. There are many other agencies that provide guides that don't work for CTS. We didn't use hotel guides because we really didn't need them. We needed guides for the Great Wall, Xian and Dazu. Otherwise we could manage on our own just fine. I don't know how you find out if a guide is licensed. Jerry said he was licensed, and we believed him. We didn't do further background checking. I don't know how much "being licensed" matters.

Hi Marija and everybody,

Re: granola bars at the Great Wall, it dawned on me -- what do you typically do for lunch at Mutianyu when you're not on a group tour?

I'm planning on booking a driver, but I hadn't gotten any further than that. Suggestions appreciated!

There are some restaurants by the parking lot in Mutiyanu. If you want you can bring a picnic.

Thank you for your great trip report. We used much of the information you provided in planning our trip to Beijing, Xian and Shanghai. It was very helpful. (I am posting about our 11 week trip on the Europe travel board - Travelgirl's Trip of a Lifetime.)

Hi, I'm planning on going to Beijing and likely only one other place. I don't think I can manage three and I want to enjoy each fully.
I'm considering the Yangtze and Guilin. Would you recommend one over the other? I'm 37 and will be travelling alone once I leave Beijing.

jefegold -

I would really recommend going to Guilin for a day and then to Yangshuo. I was in China about 5 months ago and had this itinerary - Beijing (7 days), Guilin(2 days), Yangshuo(3 days) and then back to Beijing to fly out. Yangshuo was probably my favorite stop on the trip and it's only an hour by bus from Guilin. Wonderful views, lots of friendly people, great hiking. If you are traveling by yourself I would highly recommend it.

Whatever you choose will be wonderful, but that's my recommendation.

The "hotel cab" scam sounded so familiar. We fell for the identical scam in Paris, of all places. The hotel clerk swore we would have a very hard time getting a train to Charles De Gaulle airport and an even harder time getting a cab, so we signed up for their cab and got way over charged for a hair raising ride. How humiliating, after we had been taking the metro and buses, one of the best public transport systems in the world, all over the place. Well, live learn. These hotel touts must have some kind of international newsletter.

ttt

Those of you who have been to China , how have you found the people in China ? Are they friendly ,nice and welcoming ?

Yes.

I was amazed by just how helpful those who spoke some English were. People went out of their way to help me.

To those of you who wonder about the Chinese...are they friendly, nice and welcoming...yes, indeed on all counts.

I spent four glorious weeks in China way back in 1984, when the Western visitor was surely a strange sight to the locals...but everywhere we went, we were treated like royalty!(Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Wuxi, Nanjing, Xian, Kunming, Guiln, Guangzhou, HK and Macao)

Of course being friendly and pleasant, and non-demanding in return helps..as it does anywhere in the world.

We anxiously look forward to our return visit next April.

Stu T.

Thanks for all of the great info. We, too, are going to China - for the 1st time. And, unfortunately, doing a tour for the 1st time. We're taking my 11 year oldl daughter & going in February. Can anyone comment on the weather in February and on your thoughts of taking my 11 year old?

My sons, 11 and 13, loved China. I thought it was great for them to experience such a different culture.

Marija,
I am planning a trip to Beijing this spring and your trip report has been most helpful. I am caucasion and will be travelling with my Japanese American husband and would like your opinion of what sort of treatment we might encounter given your tour guides unsolicited hatred of the Japanese. Do you think the opinion was just of these particular guides or is that opinion still widely held in a modern city such as Beijing? Thank you ...

pmd2524: Where does your tour take you to? Beijing rivers/lakes will be frozen and southern cities will be quite warm, so bring layers and a warm coat.

11-year-old is a good age to be a young group traveller, there will be much to keep her interested and entertained.