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Cancelling trip to Burma; seeking advice for outskirts of Bangkok

Cancelling trip to Burma; seeking advice for outskirts of Bangkok

Old Sep 12th, 2017, 10:25 AM
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Cancelling trip to Burma; seeking advice for outskirts of Bangkok

Planned for a month long trip to Burma, Thailand, Cambodia and Laos starting mid October. Purchased plane tickets, prepaid some rooms and put down payment on Burma 10 day tour. With the recent reports of ethnic cleaning in Burma, I'm close to canceling that portion of the trip and will take a financial hit.

I'm feeling very overwhelmed with redistributing the 9 Burma nights. I want to repurchase as few plane tickets as possible. Burma was sandwiched between Bangkok and Chiang Mai (rooms prepaid in both cities). I will need to repurchase the CM tickets. We originally had 3 nights planned for Bangkok, so I will add a couple of nights there. I've looked quickly at Hua Hin, Ayatthaya, and Kanchanaburi. Would appreciate any insights into these area or others and how much time to spend there. We like smaller cities, jungles, good food, some markets and touring. I could also add time to CM/Chiang Ria, but already have 6 nights planned for that area.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 12:01 PM
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I am very sorry for you and how conflicted and confused you must be feeling right now.

We visited Myanmar last winter, and my husband and I were just discussing the fact that with what is going on there now we would not visit again. And, shortly after our trip, and before this current round of violence and forced emigration, I was already conflicted that we had spent money in a country that has this little regard for its citizens. Did you see this article?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-bad-to-worse/

Although many on this forum like Bangkok, we did not so I would never recommend adding time there. When I see what you like and enjoy, I especially feel pretty secure steering you away from an extension there.

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...-returning.cfm

We spent 6 weeks just visiting Cambodia and Laos and could have used a bit more time. Is there any way you could add time to those countries without costing yourself a whole bunch more? I should add in here that we kind of planned our trip as we went along and were easily able to purchase plane tickets at very reasonable prices at the last minute. It is a completely different system from what we are used to in the US and Europe where plane tickets keep getting more and more expensive as the date of departure nears.

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...-itinerary.cfm

Another thought: Plane fares are cheap out of Bangkok. You could substitute 9 nights in Vietnam (you need a visa though).

But, there is so much to see and do in the countries you are already planning to visit, that I'd just spend more time in those countries.

Best of luck!
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 12:40 PM
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Thanks Julies. Just as you suggested, I've wrested with the options-- replacing Burma with Vietnam or extending stays in Cambodia and Laos or winging it when I get there. Its all causing a lot of angst. I have a lot of research to do. Viet Nam sounds like it might be the easiest to figure out.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 01:12 PM
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I'm sorry you had to cancel your Burma trip. Cheryl and I were talking a couple of weeks ago about Burma and how we wouldn't go now.

I'm someone who loves Bangkok and could spend weeks there but it isn't for everyone.

Mid-October is not high season so if you feel comfortable winging it, you could decide at the time whether to extend time in each place. Just one warning about VN - don't plan on central VN in October/Nov, as they have torrential rains then.

Good Luck!
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 09:02 PM
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There are Human Rights issues in all the countries you plan to visit. Just because of the nasty stuff in Burma currently making headlines doesn't mean it's not been going on for years.

When we went in 2010 we knew of the issues, or at least some of the issues, but we made sure that as much of our spending went into the hands of the people and not the Myanmar Government.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 09:09 PM
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Looking at some of your Trip Reports, you weren't put off visiting Nicaragua and Turkey.....both have enduring Human Rights issues.
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 09:27 PM
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I notice iin your opening posting you are interested in a side-trip to Kanchanaburi. It's one of my favourite parts of Thailand, and it's very easy, with a bit of planning. to do a perfectly safe self-guided trip.

We were there for the 4th time in February this year. Here's my mutterings that I posted on Trip Advisor...

The train from Bangkok [Thonburi Station to Kanchanaburi...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop....html#80970228

Day trip from Kanchanaburi to Hellfire Pass...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop....html#80986688

The train back to Bangkok...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop....html#81053765
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Old Sep 12th, 2017, 09:48 PM
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You also mentioned a visit to Ayutthaya. The old capital of Siam is well worth a visit, stay over night and take in the low key nightlife...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop..._Province.html

You'll notice the links in my previous post about Kanchanaburi that they were posted by The_Giant_Axe, well unfortunately LancasterLad was forced to reinvent himself!

A great way to get into Laos is over the Friendship Bridge at Nong Khai. Nong Khai is easy to reach by overnight sleeper train from Bangkok [Hualamphong Station]...

https://www.seat61.com/Laos.htm

Stop over in Nong Khai for a couple of nights, it sits right on the Mekong River, and is a very pleasant place. We stayed at the Mutmee Guesthouse...

http://www.mutmee.com/

It's a lovely guesthouse, peaceful yet central, and right by the river.

Then it's a simple case of a tuk tuk to the Friendship Bridge, complete the Visa formalities. JUmp in another tuk tuk, and you'll be in the capital Vientiane in 20 minutes.

The well trodden path is Vientiane>>Vang Vieng>>Luang Prabang. There's side-trips, but they all depend on how much time you've got. Then either fly out of Lang Prabang, or take the slow-boat back to Thailand.

In my last post I should have included this excellent link about Kanchanaburi...

https://www.seat61.com/Bridge-on-the-River-Kwai.htm
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 02:06 AM
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Hello,

I think that you are making the absolutely right decision. While many countries do have human rights issues, it is now officially being called genocide and ethnic cleansing by the UN and the United States Memorial Holocaust Museum. Additionally, many respected human right activists including Malala and Desmond Tutu and over 100 Nobel Laureates are publically calling for Aung San Suu Kyi's government to stop the massacre of the ethic Rohingya Muslim population. You are making the right call.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/w...cleansing.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ingya-violence

I am none to happy when another Fodorite, LL, takes the time to research your other trips to condemn you for visiting in the past because they have human rights issues as well. While that may be true, it is completely irrelevant to your original post, as you are seeking to make a personal ethical choice now for the future. And Human Rights Watch, which closely monitors all countries and other institutional bodies, certainly do make a distinction when it comes to genocide. And we should too.

With that said, I love the ideas presented to you by julies. I widely visited Vietnam and it is easy to plan and get around. It is such a big and interesting country that it will be easy to choose locales that fit the time of year you are traveling. And I only made it to Siem Reap and its outskirts in Cambodia but left longing for much more. I have never been to Bangkok so I cannot comment.

I am sorry that you are having to scramble at the last minute but I am grateful for your choice.
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 03:29 AM
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In mid October we will be arriving back in Asia towards the end of a six month trip around Asia, Australia and New Zealand. Amongst other places, we did consider Burma, but for a variety of reasons ( genocide being a major factor) decided against it.

I have long been an admirer of Aung San Su Ki, but have been saddened to see of her decline into the realm of inaction that is the norm of all politicians.

Despite having visited Vietnam many, many times, we are drawn back to the country and will arrive in Hanoi about the same time as you. We will spend a few days in Hanoi, a fascinating city, great food, loads to see and a great base for exploring some of the rural wonders of Vietnam. This time we are heading to Ha Giang in the far north. Othe places you could consider are Ninh Binh, Mai Chau, Ba Be. 3-4 day in Hanoi plus a few days in the aforementioned places would be a great combination.

Personally, I not spen more time in Bangkok and definitely avoid Hua Hin. We returned there after many years and were appalled by the place!

It should be a relatively simple task to get from Thailand to Vietnam and would highly recommend it.
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 04:38 AM
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jw Marriott in khao lak I a great beach/resort place for a few days.

we like hua hin and it's lovely wide beach.
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 06:05 AM
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I don't know what your plan is for Laos but since you'll be in Chiang Rai you'll be very close to the Mekong and the starting point for the Luang Say boat trip to Luang Prabang. I've done the trip twice, the second time with these folks and enjoyed it very much: http://www.luangsay.com/
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 04:26 PM
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Thanks everyone for your response. I have read all the links. All very helpful. Julies and Kathy---I used your trip reports when planning my original itinerary.

Lancaster Lad-- After reading your reports I don't think train travel is for me and traveling by van looks dangerous making Bangkok surroundings look less desirable.

And, yes, I have been to other countries with human rights issues. This is different. The red flag first went up when I read that ISIS was threatening airports and tourist areas in Myanmar. I lived in Boston during the Marathon Bombing and it left me traumatized and very cautious. On top of that, the chaningl US policy on immigration caused me to "wake up". The final straw was reading that the UN had declared the violence to be ethnic cleansing. A perfect trifecta. At this time, it is the right decision for me and I will leave it at that.

For those suggesting N Thailand—thank you. It sounds like a good option. I might even wait till getting there to purchase plane tickets. For now, I'm going to check out hotels and day trips. I heard back from Myanmar travel company and will get back a portion of my deposit which helps with expanding scope of trip.

Thanks all for your help with this.
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Old Sep 13th, 2017, 10:33 PM
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>>

I started the threads on TA to encourage people to go to Kanchanaburi and Ayutthya, and to take their time to do those side-tips, and take in the unique atmosphere of those destinations. I never expected they would deter anyone.

I agree that travel in a van driven by some maniac isn't a good idea, and it's definitely not my chosen mode of transport. But travelling by train, especially on the Bangkok-Kanchanburi-Nam Tok line is a true Thai experience, and anyone deterred from that route is really missing out. Despite being 3rd Class only several of the carriagers have cushioned seating, and it's far from being an uncomfortable ride.

There's always something going on during the 2.5 hour train journey, the scenery is rural, and rail travel is one of the few ways to get really close to normal Thai folk.

If you go by road to Kanchanaburi from Bangkok, even in a posh hired vehicle, the journey is absolutely boring, travelling mainly through flat boring Industial landscapes.
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Old Sep 14th, 2017, 10:34 PM
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Those trying to justify the "goings on" in Burma like to say it "has been going on for years" - I don't see this as justification in fact part of the process of Burma being welcomed back into the world community was it is would stop these kinds of "goings on",.

What is happening at present is seen by most as indisputably that most vile of crimes - Ethnic Cleansing. The process of exterminating men women and children because of their heritage./
i really don't see that a government that behaves like this deserves to be treated as OK or a place where I would want to spend my money unless it was going to help stop this disgusting "pogrom"


i suppose one could argue that Burma is on paper at least more democratic that Thailand, but although Thailand is committing several disgraceful breaches of human rights, they have not as yet indulged in such blatant ethnic cleansing.

I have consider my position several times in Thailand for political/human rights reasons and certainly feel that Burma needs to feel the anger of the international community at this point in time.
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Old Sep 16th, 2017, 07:09 AM
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This is one of the more balanced accounts of the current situation:
http://harvardpolitics.com/world/und...ence-rohingya/
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Old Sep 19th, 2017, 12:50 PM
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Oops. OP here. Up thread I said I was going to N Thailand. I meant to say I'm going to Northern Vietnam. Planning on Hanoi for 3 nights, 2-3 nights in Nin Binh, 1-2 nights on Indochina junk, 1-2 nights at Mai Chau. I'm back to being excited about my trip--the Burma piece was dragging me down. Any suggestions on how to redistribute the nights at each location in VietNam?

For anyone interested in the cost of new itinerary, Bangkok Air would reroute me for $90/ticket, but they don't fly to Hanoi and my Asia Air tix were promotional so no refund there. I lost $300 from my deposit with the Myanmar travel agent. I'm in process of trying to change paid Chiang Mai hotel booking, but in the end, staying in decent VN hotels and purchasing 4 new plane tix, the cost should be about the same. Fingers crossed.
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Old Sep 20th, 2017, 11:09 AM
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Good to hear you are getting things sorted out Jackie.

Re Northern Vietnam. Here is a link to our blog covering our time in the region over the last couple of years. Plenty of info and photos on Hanoi and Ninh Binh. I confess I am not a great fan of Halong Bay but some love it. We did a lot of trekking in the area starting off in the Mai Chau valley and working our way down to Ninh Binh, staying in homestays along the way.

Mai Chau has changed a lot over the years. When we first visited maybe 10 years ago there were two homestays in ten village, now there are probably 50 plus. My advice is to stay out of town, somewhere like the Mai Chau Ecolodge and avoid weekends when the area gets packed with weekenders from Hanoi.

One full day, two nights should be enough to see most of Ninh Binh. 3n 2d for Mai Chau. Two full days is barely enough to scratch the surface of Hanoi. If it were me, I think I would scratch Halong and add the time to Hanoi.

Bear in mind the travel times can eat into your time considerably. Hanoi to NB is a couple of hours, Mai Chau 3 hours but Halong can take up to five hours from Hanoi, but you could get there from NB.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2017, 03:13 PM
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Crellston--link was not included, but I did find your blog in another thread. Love your pictures and the cave trip sounds EXTREMELY adventurous. Our pace is more like the ride in the rowboat in Nin Minh.

I was going for 2-3 nights in Mai Chau Eco lodge, but only one night available. Have asked about a waiting list. If nothing comes up, we will spend the add'l 2 days in Hanoi. Also planning on an overnight in Bai Tu Long Bay--last room left on that junk. I was surprised to see limited supply of rooms, but I'm not usually booking rooms so late in the game.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2017, 03:54 PM
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Sorry about that!

Shame about the Ecolodge but that sounds like a plan. Bai Tu Long is definitely preferable to Halong. Extra days in Hanoi are never a hardship. In fact I just booked our hotel there for either side of our trip to Ha Giang in mid-late October. Looks like we could be around at the same time!

The Phong Nha caves were excellent and actually we took the easier option as I was injured at the time. One other poster here, susiesan I think, did the 7km hike in the Cave that we had planned.
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