Brunei?
Nov 2nd, 2015, 01:05 PM
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Brunei?
Following up on an earlier post, I'm considering a few weekend trips from Singapore while I'm there for a month early next year.
There's not too much on this forum in regards to Brunei (one post I found helpful was from 7 years ago!) but was hoping someone might have some more recent information about it!
I'd be flying in FriPM/Sat AM, leaving Sun PM. Other than seeing the Sultan's house and Kampong Ayer (the venice of the east!...) I'm unsure of what else there is to do?
Brunei wasn't really on my radar, and not sure there's enough there to warrant it's own trip at a future time, so I think it would be perfect to see while I'm 'close by' (and being paid to be close by!)
Thanks!
There's not too much on this forum in regards to Brunei (one post I found helpful was from 7 years ago!) but was hoping someone might have some more recent information about it!
I'd be flying in FriPM/Sat AM, leaving Sun PM. Other than seeing the Sultan's house and Kampong Ayer (the venice of the east!...) I'm unsure of what else there is to do?
Brunei wasn't really on my radar, and not sure there's enough there to warrant it's own trip at a future time, so I think it would be perfect to see while I'm 'close by' (and being paid to be close by!)
Thanks!
Nov 3rd, 2015, 11:53 AM
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It's a 'dry' country.
People are happy enough, so a bit like Saudi Arabia with a smile.
We had a couple of nights there prior to leaving by catamaran to Kota Kinabalu via Labuan.
Never ventured and all that...!
People are happy enough, so a bit like Saudi Arabia with a smile.
We had a couple of nights there prior to leaving by catamaran to Kota Kinabalu via Labuan.
Never ventured and all that...!
Nov 3rd, 2015, 12:08 PM
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It was dull because there is practically nothing to see except the large, sparkling mosque (to which I was denied entry because I am a woman) and the small homes on stilts that house most of the citizens. I didn't find any tours that went any where outside the main town, Bandar, but I did rent a little boat with captain to take me in and around the water communities. I saw such uninspiring sights as water taxis that take the children back and forth to school, scrawny dogs, and clothes hanging out to dry. My accommodations were pleasant, but there were only a few mediocre restaurants.
I would not ascribe the sterility to enormous wealth, although citizens receive major government benefits and support. Brunei is not a crossroads of commerce and ideas that would bring vitality to a location that is hot and water-logged. It is poor in resources, except for petroleum products. Having a benevolent government that supplies what must be considered a pretty good life, there isn't much incentive to get off one's duff.
I was interested in Brunei because I had considered writing my dissertation on the kingdom, its sultanate, and the oil industry. I'm glad that I chose another topic. ZZ
I would not ascribe the sterility to enormous wealth, although citizens receive major government benefits and support. Brunei is not a crossroads of commerce and ideas that would bring vitality to a location that is hot and water-logged. It is poor in resources, except for petroleum products. Having a benevolent government that supplies what must be considered a pretty good life, there isn't much incentive to get off one's duff.
I was interested in Brunei because I had considered writing my dissertation on the kingdom, its sultanate, and the oil industry. I'm glad that I chose another topic. ZZ
Nov 3rd, 2015, 03:11 PM
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No. However, in light of the sultanate's subsequent adoption of Sharia law and apparent more conservative direction, I'm don't know what to make of it, unless allowing admission to women is part of the greater plan. ZZ
Nov 3rd, 2015, 03:49 PM
#9
I had a friend who along w/ her husband were personal friends of the Sultan (this was 30 years ago - things were more innocent/less rigid back then . . . ) they met when the husband was in the diplomatic service years before that. They were invited to be his guest at least once a year sometimes more . . . and Karen told me once that if it wasn't for these trips where they were feted and really couldn't refuse, they would never go there.
With the imposition of Sharia Law last year it wouldn't be on my travel list . . .
With the imposition of Sharia Law last year it wouldn't be on my travel list . . .
Nov 3rd, 2015, 07:15 PM
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...and add to that the benefit of their incomparable bigotry towards everything and anything they don't deem "appropriate", I'd consider Brunei to be up there on the list of to-see's with Iraq...and Kentucky.
There are so many more interesting places close to Singapore. Why on earth choose there?
There are so many more interesting places close to Singapore. Why on earth choose there?
Nov 3rd, 2015, 09:37 PM
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I did a day trip to BSB from Miri, Malaysia just a few weeks ago. I had a wonderful time, but mostly because I had an amazing and enthusiastic driver who also acted as a tour guide. We left Miri at 8:30 AM, and we were out for about 11 hours, although a fair amount of time was spent "commuting" from one city to another.
The driver started by giving me a driving tour of the city. The guard at the palace let us stop and take pictures, which is very unusual. He showed me the area where many Americans live (for some reason Shell Oil has a big presence there), and we saw many government buildings.
At lunch time, we went to a fun buffet restaurant, then I took a boat to the water villages. We went to the main museum, but it was mostly about the sultan, and lacking in history of the country. We finished by going to the main mosque, and I was allowed in (I am a lady), although I did have to wear a black robe.
I think a day trip to BSB is enough, and you could conceivably do a weekend trip to Miri, where you could also visit the Niah Caves. I used a travel agency based at the Miri Marriott called "Minda Travel." I rarely use agencies, but this one was very reasonably priced, and just generally wonderful.
The driver started by giving me a driving tour of the city. The guard at the palace let us stop and take pictures, which is very unusual. He showed me the area where many Americans live (for some reason Shell Oil has a big presence there), and we saw many government buildings.
At lunch time, we went to a fun buffet restaurant, then I took a boat to the water villages. We went to the main museum, but it was mostly about the sultan, and lacking in history of the country. We finished by going to the main mosque, and I was allowed in (I am a lady), although I did have to wear a black robe.
I think a day trip to BSB is enough, and you could conceivably do a weekend trip to Miri, where you could also visit the Niah Caves. I used a travel agency based at the Miri Marriott called "Minda Travel." I rarely use agencies, but this one was very reasonably priced, and just generally wonderful.
Nov 4th, 2015, 01:45 AM
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<<<Thanks LL, I'm not a big drinker, so 'dry' countries have never bothered me.
You didn't venture at all around BSB?>>>
I can remember taking a speedboat trip into the Jungle, which was quite exhilarating. And also going to a big shopping centre, where there was a big talent contest going on, something like 'Brunei's Got Talent' - interesting!
Here's the Wikitravel page...
http://wikitravel.org/en/Brunei
Here's the 'Things to Do' page off TA...
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract..._District.html
We flew in to Brunei, and got the catamaran out to Kota Kinabalu via Labuan.
You didn't venture at all around BSB?>>>
I can remember taking a speedboat trip into the Jungle, which was quite exhilarating. And also going to a big shopping centre, where there was a big talent contest going on, something like 'Brunei's Got Talent' - interesting!
Here's the Wikitravel page...
http://wikitravel.org/en/Brunei
Here's the 'Things to Do' page off TA...
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract..._District.html
We flew in to Brunei, and got the catamaran out to Kota Kinabalu via Labuan.
Nov 4th, 2015, 12:49 PM
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Thanks LL and CaliLady- super helpful!
FilmWill- I posted as the books I have that cover Brunei have about 2 pages on the whole country, and saw it on the map and said 'hey, that's close by!'
I don't have any immediate want to go to Iraq, but Kentucky is beautiful and if you are a horse-loving person like I am, it is fabulous- one of my favorite places to compete!
FilmWill- I posted as the books I have that cover Brunei have about 2 pages on the whole country, and saw it on the map and said 'hey, that's close by!'
I don't have any immediate want to go to Iraq, but Kentucky is beautiful and if you are a horse-loving person like I am, it is fabulous- one of my favorite places to compete!
Nov 5th, 2015, 02:50 PM
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that geographically that any of those places are similar--just that they are similar in their lack of tolerance and equality.
I'm simply saying that I can't imagine going somewhere where, as a woman, you would have to abide by a code of conduct better suited to the Middle Ages (and even by those standards, still pretty abhorrent).
Anyway, enjoy your planning...
I'm simply saying that I can't imagine going somewhere where, as a woman, you would have to abide by a code of conduct better suited to the Middle Ages (and even by those standards, still pretty abhorrent).
Anyway, enjoy your planning...
Nov 5th, 2015, 11:00 PM
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filmwill.
How many innocent people are blasted in the USA because of Wild West gun laws? Pretty abhorrent!
If you go to many places in SE Asia you'll see how women do practically all of the very heavy manual labour, more suited to the Middle Ages...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ne...Fci9FAod9hcIhA
How many innocent people are blasted in the USA because of Wild West gun laws? Pretty abhorrent!
If you go to many places in SE Asia you'll see how women do practically all of the very heavy manual labour, more suited to the Middle Ages...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ne...Fci9FAod9hcIhA
Nov 6th, 2015, 10:59 AM
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Ya, I'm tolerant of others beliefs even if they don't align with my own-whether it be gun or 'coverage' laws. I appreciate you providing your view on the country/it's laws, but I will make my own decision. Who knows, if I go, I may find you're right! Or my experience might be closer to CaliLady's.
Bonus- I have to wear long pants for at least the next 7 months due to the burns on my leg from the lightning, so being covered up won't be a hardship
Bonus- I have to wear long pants for at least the next 7 months due to the burns on my leg from the lightning, so being covered up won't be a hardship
Nov 6th, 2015, 03:25 PM
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LL, first-off: what do US gun control laws have to do with this (not that I disagree with your assertion about guns in the USA...it's just irrelevant to the points about Brunei/Sharia Law.)
Not a great link, either. I see a bunch of smiling, happy people who don't look like indentured servants. Sure, tons of women work in SE Asia. They also have rights or representation...not death if they look the wrong way at the wrong person.
Sorry but any comparison of a Sharia-ruled country (Brunei, Taliban-led Afghanistan, etc.) to the USA--or even SE Asia--is kind of off.
NMV, I love that you're tolerant. But tolerant of Sharia Law? It's a bit more that 'covering up'. Just a few nuggets:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand.
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives.
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
• Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
• A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
...that's amazingly tolerant, if you ask me.
BTW, I'm all for you going wherever you want. Just hoping you realize that this isn't a matter of 'they cover up women' in Brunei. To me, at least, it's similar to the quandary of going to Burma during the most brutal of days of the military dictatorship -- but worse. Or the equivalent of going to the deep South during slavery...
Just be aware of where your money is going -- and what it is going to support simply by nature of being there.
Not a great link, either. I see a bunch of smiling, happy people who don't look like indentured servants. Sure, tons of women work in SE Asia. They also have rights or representation...not death if they look the wrong way at the wrong person.
Sorry but any comparison of a Sharia-ruled country (Brunei, Taliban-led Afghanistan, etc.) to the USA--or even SE Asia--is kind of off.
NMV, I love that you're tolerant. But tolerant of Sharia Law? It's a bit more that 'covering up'. Just a few nuggets:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand.
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives.
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
• Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
• A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
...that's amazingly tolerant, if you ask me.
BTW, I'm all for you going wherever you want. Just hoping you realize that this isn't a matter of 'they cover up women' in Brunei. To me, at least, it's similar to the quandary of going to Burma during the most brutal of days of the military dictatorship -- but worse. Or the equivalent of going to the deep South during slavery...
Just be aware of where your money is going -- and what it is going to support simply by nature of being there.
Nov 7th, 2015, 12:47 AM
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Filmwill
The population of Brunei is less than half-a-million. If you don't like Sharia Law [who can blame you], then it's alive and well, and growing fast [as you know] in your own backyard too....
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-us/53298792/1
What are you doing about it? How many practising Sharia Courts are there in the USA? It depends which website you want to believe, but the answer will still be that there are far too many! Should people stop travelling to the USA because of Sharia Law?
And ditto in most other civilised countries around the world. In UK there are [apparently] over 80 Sharia Courts. Most muslims are good honest, law abiding people, but many aren't. The UK [Swedish, German, French etc] Tax Payer indirectly funds Sharia with financial welfare benefits that many muslims claim [legally or not], and we continually kowtow to their ever increasing demands on welfare and their Human Rights. So we are all complicit!
The population of Brunei is less than half-a-million. If you don't like Sharia Law [who can blame you], then it's alive and well, and growing fast [as you know] in your own backyard too....
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-us/53298792/1
What are you doing about it? How many practising Sharia Courts are there in the USA? It depends which website you want to believe, but the answer will still be that there are far too many! Should people stop travelling to the USA because of Sharia Law?
And ditto in most other civilised countries around the world. In UK there are [apparently] over 80 Sharia Courts. Most muslims are good honest, law abiding people, but many aren't. The UK [Swedish, German, French etc] Tax Payer indirectly funds Sharia with financial welfare benefits that many muslims claim [legally or not], and we continually kowtow to their ever increasing demands on welfare and their Human Rights. So we are all complicit!
Nov 7th, 2015, 02:10 PM
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Hi Again needmorevacation,
If you are intellectually curious about Brunei, as I was, then you should definitely visit. I saw a very different picture there than the western media is painting. The women are driving fancy cars (Mercedes 500 series), and in fact, drive dangerously fast. They wear fancy clothes with nice make up and jewelry. They seem to be running everything, as they were the only employees at the museums and the mosques.
While in the Sukau area of Malaysia on the same trip in September, I met a young British woman who was spending a year teaching in Brunei, and we spent an evening talking about her experiences. She said that the citizens are treated quite well, and the Sultan routinely buys houses for people who cannot afford them.
Regarding your itinerary, I forgot to mention previously that we visited a famous "six star" hotel just outside of BSB. My driver allotted me thirty minutes to look around, so I greased myself up on fancy moisturizer in the bathroom, sprinted up and down beautiful escalators, drooled at the food in the restaurant, and admired the golf course.
Lastly, I want to give you the email of Allen from Minda Travel:
[email protected]
He arranged for my private driver, Dali, for my day trip from Miri to BSB. Allen can also arrange overnight trips as well, and I saw the hotel that they use, and it looked nice. The sites in BSB are quite spread out, so you will not get the same experience if you do not use a driver.
If you are intellectually curious about Brunei, as I was, then you should definitely visit. I saw a very different picture there than the western media is painting. The women are driving fancy cars (Mercedes 500 series), and in fact, drive dangerously fast. They wear fancy clothes with nice make up and jewelry. They seem to be running everything, as they were the only employees at the museums and the mosques.
While in the Sukau area of Malaysia on the same trip in September, I met a young British woman who was spending a year teaching in Brunei, and we spent an evening talking about her experiences. She said that the citizens are treated quite well, and the Sultan routinely buys houses for people who cannot afford them.
Regarding your itinerary, I forgot to mention previously that we visited a famous "six star" hotel just outside of BSB. My driver allotted me thirty minutes to look around, so I greased myself up on fancy moisturizer in the bathroom, sprinted up and down beautiful escalators, drooled at the food in the restaurant, and admired the golf course.
Lastly, I want to give you the email of Allen from Minda Travel:
[email protected]
He arranged for my private driver, Dali, for my day trip from Miri to BSB. Allen can also arrange overnight trips as well, and I saw the hotel that they use, and it looked nice. The sites in BSB are quite spread out, so you will not get the same experience if you do not use a driver.
