Bangkok street food

I can almost smell it! Yum!

I went to Bangkok intending to try street food, but couldn't see how the vendors with little carts and no water could possibly produce hygienic food, especially anything on a plate eaten with a spoon. I am generally adventurous, but didn't feel the risk was worth taking, even though I loved Thai food. What rules do other travellers apply?

Look for very busy stalls with a high turnover and high proportion of locals eating. Look for food that is cooked in front of you and served immediately. I tend to avoid seafood in cities away from the sea.
I have very rarely experienced problems eating street food anywhere around the world. I wish the same could be said of 5* hotels where I have been taken very ill (usually with seafood). At least you can see what is going on on the street whereas the same cannot be said of the kitchens in most hotels. As a student, I worked in a number of hotel kitchens and believe me, you really wouldn't like to know what goes on in some of them!
IMHO the best and most authentic thai food is to be found on the streets and in small hole in the wall type restaurants although I feel others are certain to disagree.

We never eat in hotels. First, the "Down and Out in Paris and London" factor, second, the food is usually mediocre, and third, the other diners are the type of people who eat in hotels. On the other hand, I have been very very sick after street food in Mexico.

Crellston, I completely agree with you -- I like to see what they are doing and how they do it. Often the minor details, like how they wipe their implements or the way they scrape the grill are good indicators of how they treat all of the other ingredients of their commerce.

If you want to get food poisoning in Bkk, a good way is to eat at a lot of hotel western buffets.

If you apply normally held Western concepts of "hygiene" to the way food is handled especially with street food, not only will you get the wrong end of the stick about it, you will also lose out on eating some of the best food in Thailand.
What you really have to do is think how you actually get food poisoning.

Hotel buffets are off our list , even here at home. Bob once saw chicken sitting out in the heat and sun outside the Shangri-la in BKK for about an hour. Five star is no garuntee for food safty. There is better food to be had at the small local resturants. We tend to avoid street food for the reasons stated above. If you are on vacation for a limited number of days, the inside of a toilet bowl is NOT the scenic view you came for. As always, commonsence prevails.

the thing that continues to bother me is where is the refridgeration of this food (mostly the raw meats) while it is sitting outside in 85 degree weather for long periods...

Stay away from Som Tum on the street or any markets. The regular stuff can get contaminated with raw crab- mess you up!!

the thing that continues to bother me is where is the refridgeration of this food (mostly the raw meats) while it is sitting outside in 85 degree weather for long periods...

It would have to be covered with bacteria to begin with for that to be a problem. And even if filthy flies have been walking all over it, don't forget that one of the things that cooking does is to sterilize things.

Nevertheless, I know that there is no way to reassure people who are afraid to eat this food. It can be perfectly good, but if you are afraid that you will get sick from eating it, YOU WILL GET SICK. I have seen this time and time again, the power of psychosomatics, not just in Bangkok, but everywhere in the world. I have known one or two people whom, if you say 'did I see a trace of pink in that pork?' (or chicken) will vomit for the entire night, even if 50 other people ate the same food with no ill effects.

So if you are afraid of it and cannot open your mind to the idea that maybe it might be all right, yes you must avoid it and eat exclusively authorized insipid items instead.

Haha, Kerouac. I remember seeing some imbecilic lady freaking out because she thought the the tofu in her pad thai was pork, despite multiple assurances from the staff.

I love food stalls in Yawarat at nite.
My favors are shark fins soup chiu chow style, fish maw, salt fish in tin foil, barbeque jumbo shrimps, crabs, a bowl of birds nest soup as dessert.
Buy a durian at the street corner and finish it before going back to the hotel.

I confess that although I had eaten durian ice cream before, I had never actually eaten a durian, although I was very much familiar with how they look and of course their, errr, special aroma.

But one day when I was returning to my hotel in Phnom Penh, all of the staff were sprawled in the lobby having a durian party. Just the way they were sprawled, made me remember two things that I had read about durians:

1. Men prefer eating a durian to having sex.
2. If a house catches on fire, the residents will not leave unless they have finished eating the durian.

Anyway, they offered me several pieces, and I ate them. OMG! I had never tasted anything like it, although I don't think it would be appropriate to post my description of the flavor here, because it would contain some references that are not acceptable to all readers.

enjoy your fly eggs and meats that are starting to turn from 80+ degree heat

Ha, didn't you have any biology classes in school? Do you think that fly eggs hatch in 30 minutes?

(Not that I would care, since they would be cooked.)

i did not in fact have biology... but in that heat lots could hatch quickly...

my main point is that if you are on vacation you don't want to be laid up with stomach problems for even 5 minutes...time is too valuable...

you eat and enjoy and i will refrain and continue to not eat street food and in 12 trips to bkk i have never been ill at all but have managed to have fantastic tasting food...

Cat1234- Why not avoid Thailand completely and just go straight to China?

Thailand and street food are synonymous, absolutely inseparable.

Thailand and hygiene are synonymous, absolutely inseparable. I’ve never seen people scrub so hard and so much. http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3932930930/

My memories of Thailand’s hygiene goes back to 1977, and being amazed watching the street vendors scrubbing the #$%& out of the pots alongside the curbs.


Ask us and we'd say, "Why go to Thailand if not for the street food".

What? You think we go there for the 90F plus life threatening heat? We tolerate the heat to get to the food, the street food.

OK, I'm overstating (actually, NOT one itsy bit) but think about it, the ubiquitous street food in Thailand is not exactly "cheap".

If you consider 10-15 Bhat for ONE delicious marinated pork satay (you have to buy two or more) and then sticky rice or 25 Bhat for Som tam then… beginning to get the idea? You could easily end up spending more than one "local" restaurant dish (noodles not included).

Remember Anthony Bourdain and the Muay Thai chicken? Street food’s got huge "cred".

If this Som Tam handle is any reference, this lady been working the street for a while and this small plate was 25 Bhat. http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3907887685/



And the street food market is somewhat complex. If the price for a pork satay is 5 Bhat, it will be smaller and not marinated and people understand that.

And what about the “street food restaurants”?

Indoor restaurants that have seating and thankfully, fans, but prepare, cook and sell the food as if they were working out of a cart?

I've often wondered how the meat can sit in the hot sun during the day, probably a scientist can explain it, because it works and sure tastes good.

Waters easy, they lug it around in huge tubs or cut deals with people in the area.

Mango7, Different strokes 4 different folks, what's wrong with it? what's wrong with you?

Ok let me add a few points to the discussion:
1) Locals eat and don't get sick- well their systems are used to the bacteria- tourist stomachs are not.
2) Where do these stall owners go to the bathroom to do their business and do you think they have hot water to wash their hands afterwards?
3) Do they have hot water to wash their utensils?
4) Yes of course you can get sick at restaurants and hotels- that applies anywhere in the world even at home where ever home is but do you really think your chances are better with a street stall for all the issues mentioned above?
5) Bob makes the best point- do you want to roll the dice on your vacation by taking a chance on these places?

Hot water is such a miracle. That's why no American ever gets sick.

Have you ever looked at the food poisoning statistics for the various countries of the world, BillT?

http://www.cureresearch.com/f/food_poisoning/stats-country.htm

you cannot win either argument... those of us who play it safe and those of you who roll the dice...

personally i'll stick with bill and continue to eat in places where i feel they have the best hygiene and that is not on the streets, although i am sure many street places are perfectly ok...

its sort of like the argument of people who want to see the "real thailand"... i never know what that is....it all seems like the real thailand to me, whether it be a nana club on soi 4, sukhumvit, soi cowboy, or the wilds of an national park in the far reaches of the country....ITS ALL THE REAL THAILAND... i love the most touristy areas just as much as i love the most far flung quiet area.... its all thailand today and that is why we love it and return over and over----trip 13 is only 7 weeks away...

rhkkmk: You've taken 12 trip to Thailand and have never, ever eaten street food? How about the "street food restaurant" type thing I mentioned above?

Just asking because as you know so well, street food is everywhere and you've been to Thailand so many times.

12 trips is pretty impressive, really. That's a huge number.

Do you live in Malaysia? Sorry joking. Boston is a long trip to Thailand, I'll be you could write a book about jet lag.

Sorry, I did not do any research... From Boston, do you fly to Europe or suffer through the extra hours to Tokyo?

What routes and airlines have you taken?

All things are local, but, even right here in the states, if you hang out at the Four Seasons, Peninsula and Waldorf Astoria your getting a thin slice of the states, that few locals or anyone ever experience.

A thin slice that, while never replicated, is often duplicated in major cities around the world.

NOTE:
Not saying this applies to you, rhkkmk.. just saying my opinion... generally.

I'm a Thai and I take precaution over what I eat, especially street food. Myself and many others do occasionally spend a night or two at the hospital from food poisoning and most of the time it was from street food.

The advice given by the regulars here should be heeded and one should always use good judgment in determining if the street food vendor is practicing proper cooking and hygiene. Another thing to watch out for is the reusing of cooking oil which I believe is a carcinogen.

Do enjoy street food but use good judgment and don't blame anyone if you end up with the runs!

FYI karenmike,

I've taken rhkkmk out for street food before, to a well known vendor, and they thoroughly enjoyed the food.

This has been an interesting discussion for me as a Thai food beginner. I can't imagine street food is actually very different from what you eat in the small bars and cafes, and we thought Kinnaree (the spicier dishes) was excellent. Back in the UK, Thai restaurant offerings are pretty disappointing.

most of my trips have been on northwest going west....but the best trip we ever did was on air france going east....i did thai only once from nyc going west and that was good...shortly i will try singapore going east through frankfurt...

the place hanuman took me to was a unique restaurant...personally i would not consider it street food and certainly the food items were not your usual street food..

i would not drink drinks out of plastic bags, even though i think they may be ok if they don't have ice cubes...

i did eat a coconut tart at the floating market, but honestly i was not thrilled to do so....it tasted very good, but i was concerned about the oil it was cooked in...

we are all different...this is just my way of insuring that i can enjoy each moment of my trip.....add to that my wife is a nurse...

One could say that all events in life have a 50-50 chance of happening. They either happen or they don't.


rhklmk, thanks for sharing and your honesty. You are an experienced traveler and I admire that you know what works for you.

In our case, drinking Pepsi out of a bouncing bag full of ice is enough to get us on an airplane.

Despite frequent efforts, we’ve never been able to duplicate that perfect diluted Pepsi flavor here in the states. Maybe it’s the heat, the sounds and the smells in Thailand or that we can’t tie a rubber band to a plastic bag properly… Oh, I know the problem… you’ll never find us drinking “regular” sugar colas in the states – Oh boy, got to love the perks when traveling.

NOTE:
Ice in Thailand is made with filter water. After scrubbing the pots to a mirror shine, Thais have more than enough sense not to put tap water into their bodies.

Besides, the air we breathe over a two week trip is the scary part.





On the face of it, it’s seems reasonable that people are afraid to eat Thai street food because they consider something that comes from the street to be of lower quality and/or not as hygienic as “building food”.

NOTE:
The above has to be true, because if peopled believed that street food was of higher quality, how could they possible pass up that meal? Higher quality but gets me sick? That does not compute!




But in reality, people are not eating street food because it’s not a common practice in their country, it’s not what they are used to, what they see and participate in everyday, therefore, not eating street food speaks more to the way people travel (for example: a mild case of xenophobia it you will) than actual facts.

When travelers don’t take part in something that is so quintessentially a part of a country, so essentially a part of all segments of Thai life, and so ubiquitous in nature... that is...


Simply put: Not eating street food in Thailand is basically missing out on the heart of the country – or should I say stomach?




We all know that Thais are great cooks.

Imagine this... People in Italy, France and Spain, dragging the best cooks in their families out on to the street and having them cook popular dishes for you, because that’s what’s happening in Thailand, home cooked meals on the street.

One dish, all or nothing.

Even though Thais are great cooks, you can be sure, with street food stalls plopped down shoulder to shoulder everywhere, that cooks face a challenge for business and personal satisfaction, to know that that people like your food “best”. So, in a situation like that, we all win. Yummy!


Having written ALL that… We’d have to say, “building food” is quite good also.




NOTE:
Yes, much of Thai street food is the “usual” eclectic fare (although the flavors vary widely). Nevertheless, if you look hard enough, especially outside Bangkok, you’ll find some special dishes. Get there early, because they run out fast.

If the street food is not as "tasty" it usually sells a bit cheaper. Not that it’s “dirty” food, but, prepared with less ingredients or TLC (time). There is a market for this “cheaper” street food, because not everyone has the “big bucks” but everybody eats some of their meals off the street.

Many times have I had Thai iced tea or other sweet drinks out of a plastic bag when in Thailand. You're really missing out, Bob!

This is way over the top, but bear with me, this took some effort. We did a “thing” comparing street food to “building food” at Port Blair, Andaman Islands and Nicobar Islands, India.
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=13.175771,95.361328&spn=14.913947,17.885742&z=6


NOT Thailand, but... we made several points, claiming that street food was “safer” because street vendors sell only one item, prepare it simply and when it’s gone, they go home with nothing left to store.

The photos below are video grabs and we can’t find the street food part now, but one highlight of the street food “Samosa Man” was using fresh oil each day, something I think this restaurant did not do.


Nice looking “building restaurant” in Port Blair, Andaman Islands, India
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938967884/in/set-72157622419715956/

With delicious food
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938967166/in/set-72157622419715956/

Delicious food that came out of this kitchen
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938967296/in/set-72157622419715956/

With a large menu, "building restaurants" have to store food.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938189827/in/set-72157622419715956/

Cutting Board
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938966570/in/set-72157622419715956/

Kitchen Prep Table
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938189433/in/set-72157622419715956/

Shrimp Cleaning
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938188613/

Shrimp Tandoori
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938965732/in/set-72157622419715956/

Shrimp Floor Corner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938188689/in/set-72157622419715956/

Despite these horrid photos, we ate at this restaurant several times. The food was GREAT!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3938189227/in/set-72157622419715956/

i believe you.....but street food is not the "real thailand"...the real thailand is royal thai food, eaten only by the royal family...so there you are, again i am missing out...

i'll continue to take a pass...

be my guest, eat and enjoy---i'm sure the taste is fantastic, but don't forget your kleenex...

I'm confused by your first paragraph, Bob. Are u serious, lol?

Great photos, karenmike! I know all about those kinds of restaurants and it's best not to see the kitchen. I agree that street food is much more hygenic compared to establishments like that -- where I would eat as well without hesitation.

I don't believe you

If you think about how you actually get food poisoning you will be a lot less fearful of street-food.

Food poisoning is a general term that usually refers to bacterial or viral contamination of food resulting in both upper and lower gastrointenstinal symptoms. It is caused by lapses in sanitation, often related to hand-washing by food handlers. The most common bacterial "food poisoning" is caused by e. coli. Given this info, it should be clear that having sanitary toilet and hand-washing facilities are important in preventing this type of food poisoning.

Another type of food poisoning is caused by growth of bacteria in foods that have not been kept at temperature that retard bacterial growth (not properly chilled) or kill bacteria (not properly cooked). This is a especially a problem in buffet situations.

One should also consider other food and water bourne illnesses, in particular Hep A and typhoid.

Since the Bangkok street food is mostly served hot off the grill after being cooked in front of you, bacterial contamination is a low risk.

I'm with Bob- but I understand others who would like to enjoy the street food- its just that I don't like to take that chance on my vacation. For those I say - enjoy but make sure you have your Pepto Bismal ready.... just in case!

Errr... I don't think that Pepto Bismol is meant for food poisoning. It is for people who have found the street food so good that they couldn't stop stuffing themselves with it.

Don't block it just let it flow out!

Bottom line:
If we were getting sick, as Hanuman wrote above,


"I'm a Thai and I take precaution over what I eat, especially street food. MYSELF AND MANY OTHERS DO OCCASIONALLY SPEND A NIGHT OR TWO AT THE HOSPITAL from food poisoning and MOST OF THE TIME It was from street food."


"Occasionally" is one too many times for me (OK, maybe two times over 10 years - Food poisoning REALLY messes you up!)

"Many others"? I'd stop eating street food immediately!

"Two nights"? I'm dying here!

Now the part I don't get is, "MOST OF THE TIME IT WAS FROM STREET FOOD."

Question:
Where else is Hanuman occasionally contracting food poisoning?


And still, I truly believe, if Thai people were getting sick from street food, they would have "taken care" of that "situation" quickly.

Yes, Thais don't scream and yell (some exceptions) but they don't take #$%&# either.





We all know the story:
Why, in Bangkok, do you seldom hear car horns honking at each other?

A situation that is absolutely remarkable.

Some here many have heard a different story, but we've asked a lot of drivers and all came up with the same exact answer, "BOXING".

A little "toot" is OK, but if you lay on the horn, the other driver will come over and "Box you".


It goes without saying, street vendors know it's bad for business to get people sick.

Hey there are good and there are bad street food. You're generalizing and you are saying all street food are safe - well you're wrong. Even the Thai FDA crack down on them and they do try to promote and create safe environment for street food vendors like in Singapore. But sadly they only do it when there're major news about food poisoning or death.

How do I or others know when they got it from street food? Usually the symptoms will start in 4 - 6 hours after consumption before other meals are consumed.

I'm really happy that you're promoting Thai street food but just because you haven't been affected by food poisoning here it doesn't mean that it's safe or people should not take precaution.

Oh and I had street food today but from a hawker center and so far so good!

One of the Pizza Hut locations in Paris was closed a week ago due to a major problem with rats as well as a dead mouse actually being cooked into a pizza.

Do you consider Pizza Hut to be a safe place to eat or will this incident preclude any future visits to that establishment?

If rat poops and mouse meat can get into your food at Pizza hut just imagine what can get in your food at an unclean street food vendor!

I'll still eat pizza from pizza hut but I definately will not in Paris when there are so many good restaurants to go to.

Eat what you want to eat - in Thailand and elsewhere. But know what the risks are and choose your risks carefully. You may want to read about food and water precautions so you know what is risky and can make good choices. For instance, I will have ice in my drinks in Bangkok when it is commercially made ice from purified water (the cylindrical ice), I eat salads at restaurants I know, etc. I don't usually eat street food - when I do I choose carefully.

For instance the comment "Since the Bangkok street food is mostly served hot off the grill after being cooked in front of you, bacterial contamination is a low risk." Recognize that bacteria in or on the food will be killed if a high enough temperature is attained and kept for a long enough time. But even hot off the grill, if the food is touched by hands or utensils that are contaminated, you may still get sick. The comment above by tarquin about plates and utensils is well taken.

you can lead a horse to water.....

lol, HT, but it is tap water or purified water?

Hanuman, you are absolutely, 100 percent correct! Your scolding is proper, well received and probably overdue.



To everyone, my overzealous attempt to promote (push) a style (our style) of travel on people could be putting someone at risk - not that anyone would eat street food just ‘cause we say.

It’s obvious that people have their own style of travel, tastes in food, and favorite activities and not that I’m qualified, but, yes, I am guilty of writing words hoping to convince people to “do it different”.

Our travel style is in no way unique or even correct (you could say it’s a waste of time). We often miss the important sites in county only to spend a lazy time in a restaurant or park bench blabbing away the afternoon eating and drinking.

One could say if there is no food or drink inside, nor will you see us.

Only when we return home and glance at the guide book we never used, do we ruminate on locations that might have good to see.

But, many travel in a similar fashion, we just don’t see them, they are invisible, lost in the country side or down a narrow city street.

Anthony Bourdain is an example of such a traveler. His episodes rarely show the “highlights” of any location they visit, instead, he just goes there, eats, drinks and talks to people – outtakes of the show have him moaning and groaning about contrive shooting locations – OK, their all contrived, but you know what I mean.

Given a choice, people will do what makes them comfortable and happy, but, think about it, whether it’s a soft reminder from Rick Steves with his “Back Doors” analogy to Anthony Bourdain’s unseemly addiction to the mundane, many if not all the travel shows encourage people to do what the locals do, to seek out places that are not specifically designed around tourism or at least specifically designed around their home lifestyle.

And all of 'em eat street food.

Well, I have to admit that I have eaten unclean crap everywhere in the world and can now claim to be immune to just about everything.

Yes, I have been puking want-to-die sick from food eaten in:

Karachi, Pakistan
Biloxi, Mississippi

I have been nothing-left-to-drain-out-the-bottom sick in:

Yogyakarta, Indonesia
Chambord, France
Marrakesh, Morocco

Frankly, I do not see a pattern here, and I certainly do not see it anywhere in Southeast Asia where I have eaten everything, including tea made from water dipped out of a stream in Cambodia.

Damn that Morocco, two TIMES!

Kerouac,
The constant in the pattern you fail to see is you. You are the one taking chances everywhere you go so it's only a matter if time before it catches up to you. But that's ok by me,no problem here,you just wouldn't catch me taking that chance again.we have a saying here in the US......been there done that already...

Aloha!

People who take absolutely no "chances" seem to get sick just as often, if not more often, because they have built up no immunity.

Americans are known to suffer from food poisoning much more than Europeans because they have "sanitized" their kitchens excessively. How else can one explain that the incidence of food poisoning in the U.S. is ten times that of France, where food handling is much more relaxed?

As I said......been there done that.....

So your travel days have ended. Kraft mac & cheese until the end of days.

And I am not a more seasoned or in the know traveler for doing so.

I love mac and cheese

And where do you come up with the health stats? 10x the amount of Americans.....really?
That would be interesting

"People who take absolutely no "chances" seem to get sick just as often, if not more often, because they have built up no immunity."

Kerouac, it's a myth that getting food poisoning gives one immunity against another case - even with the same organism. So your repeated cases of food poisoning have not made you immune. And your "data" about food poisoning is dubious at best. I looked at the "data" and it would never pass a peer review.

I have no objection to your eating street food or to your getting food poisoning if that is what you want to do. I am more cautious about what I eat, perhaps because I know more about the medical issues.

There are things we have control over and things we do not. We do not have control over the sanitation of the peple and places that handle our food. We do have control over the choices we make.

The idea that some people take "no" chances is false. There are things we can do do decrease our risk; there is nothing we can do to eliminate our risks. I advocate that people take conscious, considered risks rather than ignoring risks.

"health stats"
This link posted above by kerouac
http://www.cureresearch.com/f/food_poisoning/stats-country.htm



Playing around here, but, the stuff I’d like to see in a Fodor’s profile would read like this:

Upscale hotel as important as location
Beach suntan
Bars drink
Tour bus
Meet boys (aka get laid)
Meet girls (ditto)
Show off photos when I return home

You know? The specific “true” intent why people travel to a location.


I say this, because in the African forums, you might read more about the quality of food at the upscale lodges than the safaris.

No surprise there, stuffing eight people into an open air “jeep” and moving about the bush checking out the wildlife is much less surprising than paying $400 per person, per day and getting a crappy meal.

Now having said that, I think some would write:

Cultural experience** - **but to a limit.

And that’s ok.

And that’s ok, RIGHT!?

km, I saw the above stats listed but when I added Europe up against the US I didn't see the US as 10x more than the European countries, quite the opposite.....cie la vie

Honestly, I didn't even look at it.. my point... if it's there, try it, push yourself a bit you might have fun. Keep in mind that serendipity is a travelers best friend.

But, if you're too freaked out. It's OK, no problem.


One point we forgot to cover, is that some people are not as interested (obsessed) with food as others. As in, not the focal point of their life.

And in the case of Thailand, they really, really like air conditioning. Yes, AC is enough to get us into a "building restaurant"

In my case, I've never done a bungee jump despite taking photos at one of the highest jumps in the world in South Africa.

What!!? How can we not have taken one of the best-est, highest jumps? Jumps are pretty darn safe.

Scares the *$%^# out of us.
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/highest-bungee-jumps-on-earth/13932

You are a wise person, karenmike.

I've eaten from street vendors MANY times and have never gotten sick (yet). I only had it happen when I inadvertently ate Som Tum PU at MBK eatery. The key is to eat at popular stands and make sure your dishes are well-cooked!

Karen, I saw the health "stats." What I said about them is a nice way of saying that they are bogus.

And I don't think I read that anyone was "freaked out." The issue is choices. You are great at pointing out that people travel for different reasons, like different activities, choose to stay in different places, etc. I agree. I just believe that people should make decisions with their eyes open - with good, accurate info - whether it's about where they want to go, what they want to do, where they want to eat.

As someone in the healthcare field, I do feel the need to correct misinformation about health issues.

Freaked out no.

Well informed, yes!

Stubborn to the point of not being able to see the nose on my face? Not as much as some people.

Semantics?
This is not the 70’s
Freaked out – simply afraid and worried at the same time.


Afraid and worried are powerful words, saying, I’ve made a choice, describes nothing.


Most people are used to seeing the negative side of situations, especially things in which they are not accustomed. They may be hesitating to try something because of the potential negative risks involved. So, the fact that they are traveling and street food is ubiquitous and clearly a major part of Thai life is not enough for them to overcome their fears of what could happened should they eat street food.

I used the word, “xenophobia” – The fear of anything foreign. Sure thought I’d get blasted for that.




No one is saying people are wrong, just that they are missing out – big time!

Many posters here made a choice to encourage people to push their comfort zone, to do something they don’t want to do, because we believe they might like it and we don’t want anyone to miss out on something good.

TV travel people have done the same thing.

Anthony Bourdain on street food:

“If you only eat in restaurants (Viet Nam) you missed the point entirely.”
“The true face, the heart and soul of where you are.”
“Often you’ll find the very best of this world.”

This year, Anthony Bourdain did an episode on street food.
http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Anthony_Bourdain/Episode_Guide_Down_on_the_Street

According to my channel guide, the show will air again, Tuesday September 29 @ 08.00 CDT and 16.00 CDT.

As a street food addict, I thought it was a great watch.






But, the question is still there.

When traveling, why not push yourself to try something that is “quintessentially a part of a country, so essentially a part of all segments of Thai life, and so ubiquitous in nature?”

Is this not what we are “supposed” to do when traveling?






And finally, “FREAKED OUT”

We saw this Som tam vendor near Khaosan Road and ordered up some Papaya and asked to take some photos – that’s the polite way to do it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/sets/72157622440055732/

Hey, how can you not trust this face?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveltv/3947481735/in/set-72157622440055732/



While we were doing a “photo shoot” four guys came by and asked us to move out of the way, as we were blocking their photographs.

Whoa buddy, buy your own Som tam and then you can have the front row for pictures.

They FREAKED out.

Yes, totally freaked out. “No way, I’m going to EAT this!”

Setting aside the fact it was street food, they had not tried Som tam in Thailand (see my head spin).

The subject quickly changed to you have to try this food, you must try this food.

How can you desperately want a photo of something that you have no intention of taking part in, like putting on bungee harness and standing there for a photo opt? (I did not do that)

In the end, we convinced one out of the four young guys to literately use their pinky and thumb to pick up one small piece of papaya, He said it tasted good as he shuddered and the other laughed and looked on as if he was crazy.

Anyway, sure hope he did not get sick.



To say this is a discussion about “I’d prefer not” or “take precautions” in my mind is not accurate. It’s about fear and the unknown and the courage to go outside your comfort zone.

When in Rome, people, when in Rome.




NOTE:
Som tam is eaten with a spoon because the getting the mixed juice is an important part of the flavor.

I would never quote Bourdain.. he's only sophisticated to those who are green and his quotes are flaccid and uninspired at best, despite his intent to impress.

It's funny because my husband and I approached our recent first trip to SE Asia with a lot of trepidation, mostly for experiences like eating 'street food'. Looking back on our planning makes me chuckle. We thought we were all set if we took a good first aid kit, alcohol gel, malaria pills (for the next part of the trip) and refused to have ice or salads and only drink bottled water.

But we ended up going to the railway market and then floating market with Tong and she was bought a whole manner of things for us to try from stalls at each. My mouth is watering now remembering the coconut bananas and the yummy satay. Pretty much everything we tried was delicious and no, we didn't get sick. It made us feel a bit silly. I guess the stalls we ate from there had the high turnover you have been mentioning.

The funny thing is that at one point on the trip, in Cambodia, not Thailand, we did both feel a bit ill (mild runs, sorry for the detail) and the whole time there we ate in hotels.....so it just goes to show. We can't decide if us feeling a bit run down there was due to the food or maybe because we were taking malarone as an anti-malarial. So we decided to switch the time we took the drug to jsut before bed and man, oh man, the nightmares we had!

All in all, I think on our next trip we'll be a bit more adventurous. And, we'll save the malarial zone until the end of the trip to minimise time on vacation taking the malarone.

That's my two cents worth.

I always eat street food whenever we travel but I am very conscious of picking vendors that appear to have a constant turnover and always choose foods that are cooked in front of me.
I think that this gives me less chance of getting sick than eating in restaraunts where I cant see the kitchen, or the people preparing my food or eating hotel buffet's from Bae Maries.
A good friend of mine who is a doctor claims that most of the bugs that we contract that we label as "food" poisoning are contracted from our hands or the utensils that we use and not the food itself.

Alot of unpleasant things can happen when we travel. We can avoid all of these by not travelling. But having made the effort to take myself out of the comfort of my own home and country, I choose to immerse myself in the local culture and in most places that I visit, street food is a major part of this.

I totally agree about the utensils and unclean hands. We always clean our utensil prior to eating(despite where eating) and clean our hands.

my main issue with the food is not the cooking of it, or the people who cook it, or the utensils used, IT IS THE TREATMENT OF THE FOOD, ESPECIALLY BEFORE COOKING OR IN TRANSPORT OR IN PREP....

rhkkmk, well you've certainly never experienced THE REAL Thailand then have you? You've wasted your time..... off with your head.

When in Rome eat Chinese, when in China eat Italian......words from a famous panda I know.....

Aloha!

A few thoughts on “food poisoning”....
Is it actually that serious or are you just referring to a bout of diarrhoea?
How did you REALLY get it?
FP can take up days before the effects are felt, so it’s not always right to blame the last thing you ate.
Street food versus restaurants.
In the west, most food poisoning comes from the home but we all know of small restaurants blamed for food poisoning and also the major chains...e.g. Tacobell in the US not long ago.
The problem with a chain of restaurants is that they share suppliers. So if a batch of food is contaminated, it is then distributed to several outlets. This is less likely with small independent businesses.
Hygiene is a problem but as was highlighted a few years ago in the UK the main problem is now storage and distribution.
All food has bacteria on it..........Modern western style food relies a lot on “chill serve” methods. Food is first prepared and then kept at just above freezing (+5C). It is then heated and served. This low temperature does not kill off bacteria; it just holds them in stasis, so they don’t multiply. The problems start when the food is allowed to get above the 5C temperature and the bacteria start to multiply. In hot climates with poorly trained or inexperienced staff, this is a particular problem. Food is removed from the fridge and returned again, left in 30C or over the bacteria have a field day.
From a personal perspective I know with reasonable certainty of 3 separate incidences where friends have got quite seriously ill (hospital in 2 cases) by eating at “western” restaurants...this includes a fast food burger chain on Samui.
It is the toxins produced by the bacteria that cause food poisoning, so they have to colonise your gut and then produce their toxins...this is why there can be a delay between eating and symptoms being felt.
Bacteria generally lie in wait on the surface of foods. If you eat a rare steak, so long as the outside is well and truly cooked, it is quite safe. However if you mince the meat...i.e. for a burger you are mixing the bacteria to the inside of the food....if this is not cooked through thoroughly there is a good chance that the bacteria will multiply to a dangerous level.
With street food in Thailand, you are dealing with quick-fire cooking methods that have been tried and tested for decades, food is killed, quickly cut up and fried at high temperatures...contrary to some peoples observations, it is not left out for hours...it is sold....having been cooked a lot of potential bacteria are dead, so the contamination process is set back. Mince in Thailand is cooked lose so it is cooked through properly. The vendors are dealing with kinds of foods that they are used to dealing with, refrigeration is not a part of the food preparation here, the process is therefore fast, and the chances of contamination reduced.
Westerners look at Thai food stalls and apply their own standards of hygiene to them, this is a mistake from the start as hygiene is not the only cause of food poisoning; it is preparation, storage that will cause the main problems.
There are other ways to get sick....hep A (shellfish), amoebic dysentery (water-borne) liver fluke (fish)....Google them up and see how to catch them......this has little to do with dirty hands and cloths....
Yes, anyone can get food poisoning, from anywhere, but the claims against street food stem largely from ignorance and prejudice.
As others have said, be “street-wise” use some common sense and you will be OK...eat enjoy....and carry a packet of tissues!


One other point...I wouldn’t think taking Imodium as a matter of course is such a good idea....if you DO have the runs, the best thing is sometimes to let it “run” its course and drink lots of (bottled) water; taking Imodium is convenient especially if you a re travelling., Of course, there may well be circumstances where you have to shut down your bottom for a few hours (bus-ride?), but is neither attacks the bacteria in your system or neutralises the toxins.
BTW - Antibiotics should really only be used if prescribed by a doctor.

Brb, getting popcorn..

I love street food.

There was a street food vendor competition in NYC this past weekend, called the Vendys $80 tickets all sold out.

OK I'm going to strangle the next poster who claims that unless you do certain things one does not experience the "Real Thailand"

just for the record...bill tempura is not part of the "real thailand" and neither is phad thai.. phad thai come from issan and issan is not considered the "real thailand", its the place where all "real" taxi driver come from

THis post is WAYYYYYY to long why can't we all agree to differ.

Well anyway, if all of the Asians were eating poisonous food (and the way they cook at home isn't different from on the street), I doubt that it would be the most populous continent.

Well you had Roman Polanski and we have good and bad street food.

Hanuman- The dense can make you weary!!

Silly Bob- Taxi drivers all from Isaan? With your line of logic, would it be safe to say that all fat western tourists are stupid Americans?

(pssst, Mango, Bob is joking)

I'm sure that some people think that Thailand is all about 5-star hotels, grinning dancers with pointy hats and metallic finger extensions, ladyboys, luxury bland buffets and floating markets photographed from air conditioned buses. And their impressions would be correct as well. Hey, and some of them will get diarrhea anyway.

Third stall down from soi Silom on soi Convent. Pork and vegetables over rice. My regular lunch in Bangkok. Best food on the soi!

Sorry, Bob. That one went over my head. I hadn't warmed up completely when I wrote that...

Hey, Thailand truly isn't an adventure until you're sitting in a stall pushing out water at least one time(I'm sure the dogster can attest to that). I still lmao when thinking of the those moments.

Fire water, lol

km, you forgot my fav and the one that says the most

When in Rome eat Chinese, when in China eat Italian......words from a famous panda I know.....

As the poster asking the original question, "What rules do other travellers apply[to eating street food]?" this has been a fascinating discussion. I haven't moved far from my original perhaps timid assessment, but will try to judge the vendor's stall when next tempted by something that looks really delicious.

Reading about travel is the next best thing to travelling, and the posters on this forum are a great, informed and combative bunch!

Damm u dogster... I wanted to be the 100th poster!

Yes, I thought I'd strike at the cosmic moment.

Fodor’s Obsolesce

That would be an interesting thread.

And just for the "record" there have been several posts on Fodors that claim that in order to experience the REAL Thailand one should do this or that- we are heading for BKK for our 3rd trip and what ever we do it will be REAL!

Fair enough. I (of course) was referring to this thread.

I am merely just the original poster, but I would love to see a few more Thai street food galleries rather than read some of these sterile (or are they contaminated?) comments about not eating the stuff.

I would also love to see food galleries showing what those who don't eat street food eat when they are in Thailand.

When I went to a luxury hotel in Phuket, there was a German night with sausages and sauerkraut.

Just cause people don't eat off the street, doesn't mean they don't eat Thai food

Hmmm... there were about 105 replies to this thread and now there seem to be fewer than 100. Who got deleted? I hope it wasn't me!

Just cause people don't eat off the street, doesn't mean they don't eat Thai food.

Absolutely. That's why I want to see your photos.

I eat quite a bit of Thai food at home in Paris, so it is very definitely not on the street!

I'm not sure i follow you, are my photos supposed to validate what i/others are saying?
Or are you just interested in photo's of Thia foos?
and yes i think some posts have been deleted

I’m thinking what Kerouac is on to: “WHAT THOSE WHO DON’T EAT STREET FOOD EAT” could be cool and interesting project.

I’ll hunt around and see if we can remember, find photos and GE (Google Earth) the places we ate.

Might be a bit boring in Chiang Mai though, ‘cause we ate almost two weeks worth of dinners at the same noodle location.

If many people contribute, this could garner a lot of useful information.



It’s funny, because one of my first posts in Fodor’s, back in 2000, was about asking people in country, where was the last place you ate?

Not, where do you think we’d like to eat, or your favorite place, just the last restaurant... (we still do this on every trip)

Discovered a private restaurant (to avoid the liquor laws) with newspaper windows and all, in Rome one time that kept everybody eating and drinking into the early morning hours.

so why not start a thread along those lines, i think it would be much more interesting than this thread that seems to go on for ever

Clearly this thread is long and contains lots of words (not a bad thing in my mind) but, I’d like to remind people that no one has written (in this thread) that people who don't eat street food, are WRONG, BAD PERSON or not traveling REAL.

I believe if we were discussing New York (or XXXX), street food enthusiasm would not be pushed as much. NOT because we believe New York’s street food is not worthy of pro street food remarks, but more to the fact that street food is such an intrinsic part of Thai life.

This really is getting tedious!!! .

One of the things you've missed, KW, in your discussion is that sanitation issues aren't just a matter of the vendor getting fecal matter on your food before it is cooked. Let's leave the vendor for a moment.

You earlier mentioned Hep A, as I did. Hep A is a viral illness typically spread by an infected food handler. This happens in Asia, this happens in Europe, this happens in North America. The other way Hep A is often spread is through the ingestion of contaminated shellfish. How do the shellfish get contaminated? By insufficient or non-existent sewage processing. Likewise, typhoid is spread by infected food handlers and contaminated shellfish. So places with less thorough or no sewage treatment have more contaminated shellfish.

So the whole issue of safe food and water is a complex one. Again, I recommend that people inform themselves about these matters. The resource I consider to be the best is the cdc website:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/content/safe-food-water.aspx

I have absolutely no objection to people eating whatever they'd like. I do think it is wise for people to make informed decisions about risks and to choose their risks. There is no such thing as risk-free; we all choose the risks we take.

Let’s celebrate this uplifting story about growth told by GOTTALOVEPUGS above.

Gottalovepugs recounted how they, “… approached our recent first trip to SE Asia with a lot of trepidation, mostly for experiences like eating 'street food'.”

They had planned ahead NOT to eat salads or drink liquids with ice, but after “Tong” brought them, “… a whole manner of things for us to try from stalls”, they took a chance, went with the flow, tossed away their original plan of action and ate street food.

Mouth watering street food, “everything we tried was delicious”.

Gottalovepugs , wrote that they both felt a bit silly - I surmise that’s from their unnecessary apprehension about eating street food - and they now plan to be “more adventurous” on their next trips.

Heartwarming.

This account extols the best gifts that traveling has to offer, the accumulation of life changing experiences, the chance to expand your horizons and the opportunity to learn.

A great travel adventure.

One day they'll have a good laugh while on the can projectile pooping...you can't avoid doing this once in a blue moon, lol.

Kathy - I do wish you wouldn't keep jumping to conclusions prematurely about my postings - haven't "missed" anything - I simply, out of the interests of keeping it short haven't expounded on it.

This is a forum and it is great that others can add to the information in their own time so grows organically.

I'm not about to cover the whole thing 100% as you yourself now know how big and complex an issue it is - but a knowledge of the basics can safe a holiday......

I'm fully aware professionally of the complexities of food preparation and hygiene - especially in the tropics - this is a chat forum not a scientific discussion.

The last thing I posted was actually to do with processing of food and how sugar, salt acid etc can protect against bacteria successfully breeding as opposed to chilling or freezing as used in the west – Restriction is the key as you cannot wholly prevent bacteria from entering any process.

The western concepts of "cleanliness are great - in the west - but if you use them for a yardstick in the tropics you will mislead yourself into incorrect interpretations of which food is and isn't safe to eat.

As you have re-iterated food poisoning is not just the result of bacterial toxins there are other causes.
Again you also have mentioned food poisoning is not the sole preserve of Thailand – which I hardly think needed saying - but this is a Thai forum and I have been concerned really with the cultural aspects of Thai street food and how it can give the impression of being a greater source for contracting food poisoning than it actually is.

My overall position is that it is not as bad as it looks at first glance and there are several reasons what this may be the case - some of which - not all I have pointed out here -

you obviously are doing some research into exactly how food poisoning is contracted and this is a good thing, it would prevent a lot of people missing chunks of their holiday if others too took the time to find out more about how they actually get sick from whatever they consume.

A number of years ago in Malaysia, the government helped put together hawker centers to reduce the incidence of food-borne illness. The hawker centers have restrooms, hand washing facilities and places for the hawkers to wash dishes and eating utensils in soap and hot water. These facilities have reduced food-borne illness in Malaysia by a tremendous amount, something like 80-90%.

Of course, Malaysia isn't the only place that has hygienic hawker facilities, Singapore is well known for this. And I was delighted to hear from Hanuman there are there are some new hygienic hawker stall areas in Bangkok now.

It's true that as a health care professional and someone who has written about travel health issues here and for a number of other sites, I do keep up on the epidemiology, public health issues and the scientific literature in these areas.

Some of the legendary street food vendors like "Goh Hub" used to sell their foods(noodles) off a row boat in klongs. As time passes and more klongs were filled in they move to the roadside or markets. Now apart from the centers set up for the vendors the more famous one now own restaurant or chain of restaurants and have kiosks at food courts in shopping malls. At the same time, those that have restaurants situated on the street side often set up tables on the walkways giving impressions that they are street food vendors.

As Kathie has pointed out seek vendors at centers or those that have access to tap water and bathrooms to reduce your chances of getting food poisoning, dysentery or diarrhea.

Here is a link to a horrible food poisoning story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/health/04meat.html?_r=1

This speaks to the "mince the meat", "shared supplies" and "distribution" (a lot of people get sick at once) points khunwilko made above.

A sad story, enough to think about stopping eating all together.

NOTE:
Amazing, the article above is a New York Times 4,893 word report on food poisoning. Quite a read.

Hanuman- And remember they used to clean everything in the klongs (aka horng nam), too, lol!

Hey Mango I still swim in the rivers and klongs as well as do other things in there when nature calls.

bad boys

Kee nam! Mai dee!!