Advice needed from Japan train pros

Old Feb 19th, 2017, 07:19 AM
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Advice needed from Japan train pros

My husband and I arrive at Tokyo Narita on Thursday April 6 and depart Tuesday April 18. Our flights and hotels are already booked. I’m now reading about the trains and playing with Hyperdia to determine if a JR Pass is a good decision and I’d appreciate your input. Here’s our itinerary:

Apr 6. Arrive Narita 2pm, travel to Kyoto. Take Narita Express 34 to Shinagawa, then either Nozomi 243 or Hikari 481 to Kyoto.
Kyoto for six nights at Hyatt Regency. Daytrip to Nara during this time using JR Nara Line.

Apr 12. Travel to Hiroshima on Nozomi 9 or Hikari 495. Two nights at Sheraton. Daytrip on Apr 13 to Miyajima using JR ferry.

Apr 14. Travel to Tokyo on Nozomi 12 or Sakura 540 & Hikari 516. Four nights at Shangri-La.

Apr 18. Narita Express 7.

We will use the Green Car on all the longer trips. If I’m doing the math correctly, a 14 day pass will be almost break even. Or if I get a 7 day pass starting Apr 12 it would save around $110 USD. But on the downside, with JR Pass I’m forced to go on Hikari instead of Nozomi trains. For the routes I’m looking at Hikari means 30 minutes longer on Apr 6, 50 minutes longer on Apr 12 and 60 minutes longer (plus a transfer) on Apr 14. Two extra hours over the course of 2 weeks is not a big deal, however saving $110 in the grand scheme of the cost of this vacation is not really significant either.

So my question to you train experts is it better to have it than to not? Will having the pass will make things easier, like not having to stand in line at ticket counters? Are there benefits to having it (or not having it) that I’m not considering?

My goal is always to do as much as possible before I leave home so I don’t have to worry about details after arrival. Faster and easier usually wins over cheaper.

I know I’ll still need a Suica in Tokyo. For local travel within Kyoto I have a feeling we may use taxis to make things easy and relaxing.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 02:41 PM
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You'll still have to stand in line either way. you need to exchange your voucher for the actually pass in the beginning, but unless it's really busy can make all your reservations and seat assignment at the same time. If you don't use a pass, you'll stand in at least one line (or more) to buy tickets. .

Just out of curiosity, how much is a 7 day Green pass now?
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 04:28 PM
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I have never ridden in Green, and not felt I am missing anything. Why are you planning to pay more for Green? You will arrive at the same time.

A pass is certainly convenient, once you have it, and you might decide to take a side trip you haven't planned.

The Kintetsu station in Nara is more central and convenient than the JR station. The trip on either line is very cheap.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 11:04 PM
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The standard class carriages in Japanese bullet trains are very spacious, certainly the legroom was amazingly generous, such that my 6 foot 6 inches (2 metres) tall husband had plenty of space.

So for us, there was never any reason to pay more for green car. We buy ekiben (train station bento boxes) for the longer journeys, and drinks from the on-board vending machines.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 05:03 AM
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>

Why? The ordinary car seating space for travelers is MORE than what you would get in domestic USA first class on an MD-80 or 727, and about on par with what you'd get on a transoceanic business class seat. JAPANESE SHINKANSEN SEATS ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO ECONOMY AIRLINE SEATS, they are far superior.

Here's how you may want to work this based on your schedule: (1) take the Nozomi to Kyoto, (2) take the Kintetsu from Kyoto to Nara, (3) get a pass for the 12-18 days.

Don't take a Hikari to Hiroshima, even if you can. Go from Kyoto to Shin-Osaka and hop on a Sakura, which is JUST AS FAST as a Nozomi between Shin-Osaka and Hiroshima. Or go to Kobe or Himeji if the wait time between the Hikari and Sakura will be less. Fact is, the Sakura will pass your Hikari en route to Hiroshima. The difference between the Sakura and Nozomi (other than length - 8 cars v. 16) is that you can use the Sakura with a JR pass.

And go with the regular JR pass, that'll save you way more than $110 because you'll save the difference between green car (unnecessary) and ordinary.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 06:12 AM
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You've done your homework! I think you have all the bases covered. I will check on the prices, but you are probably in right ballpark.

Taking that Hikari train to Hiroshima is a good idea because there is no transfer required. I think that one and the earlier one are the only Hikari trains on the Sanyo shinkansen that go south of Shin Osaka, tho I could be wrong about that.

Another difference between the Sakura and Nozomi is that you can't use a Sakura traveling from Kyoto to Hiroshima without making a transfer. The Sakura trains are from Shin Osaka south.

I prefer the regular cars over the green cars and that is not based on price. The only time I rode in a green car was in Tohoku and there were only 2 other passengers in the car - two UK soccer hooligans.

I prefer the regular cars because I have had a lot of fun experiences with ordinary Japanese who don't want to pay the premium price for a green car seat.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 06:21 AM
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Fact is, you on the Hikari you chose will pass right on by a traveler who is changing trains to get a Sakura to Hiroshima.

I'll be back with pros and cons for you to consider. Neither option (pass or no pass) is a slam dunk.

I checked and neither JAL nor ANA have their cheap fares available anymore for NRT -> OSA on April 6.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 06:28 AM
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>>Fact is, you on the Hikari you chose will pass right on by a traveler who is changing trains to get a Sakura to Hiroshima.

Ok, so that is not actually true because your Hikari takes 125 minutes between Shin-Osaka and Hiroshima vs about 90 min on the Sakura. And transfers can be quick.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 07:08 AM
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Peach has really cheap fares for NRT - KIX for April 6, but it is definitely a budget airline.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 07:46 AM
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It would be a 5-hour connection to Peach. Cheap tho.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 07:55 AM
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"Connection"? I thought they were flying into Narita?
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 08:49 AM
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I did look into flying from Narita to ITM on Apr 6. I was looking at ANA and Japan Airlines and the flight prices were similar in price to the trains, and factoring in the travel time from ITM to Kyoto did not save much time. I didn't look at the budget airlines, and didn't look at KIX because it's farther than ITM from Kyoto and arrival at hotel would be pretty late. Since flying didn't seem faster or easier, I decided to stick with the train.

I didn't ask in my OP whether or not I should do the green car, I just mentioned it in case anyone wanted to check my math. However I appreciate your advice trying to talk me out of it. My reasoning was A) we are both very tall, B) we tend not to travel light and will be dealing with luggage and C) things I've read mention trains being more crowded during seasons like Sakura. So it's helpful to know from Kavey that her tall husband was OK in non-green and from Big Russ that seats are equivalent to business class airline seats.

Are there luggage racks near the doors of each car? Or do you have to store your luggage around your seat? (And yes, I already know about the luggage shipping services and that won't work for us for a number of reasons.)

I'll look more at the suggestions from Big Russ and mrwunrfl when I have more time later. I've seen a lot of your Japan posts and appreciate how you two always take the time to figure out train details for people!
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 08:50 AM
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If you want to call it a layover, ok. It is 5 hours from the 2PM arrival until the next Peach flight that they can catch to KIX. Add flight time and then and the Haruka L'ex time it would be 8 hours to get to Kyoto eki.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 09:06 PM
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Glad that was helpful info.

Re luggage, Japanese travellers don't travel with enormous amounts of luggage, so shinkansen don't have tonnes of luggage space. There are overhead luggage racks, these are big enough to hold our regular cases, we take two medium cases rather than one larger one for that very reason. There is usually space for one or two cases at the very back of each carriage, behind the last pair of seats.

If you can find a way to travel lighter than usual, I'd recommend it.

Depending on your itinerary, another option is to send one or more case ahead from one destination to the next (or to the one after) via the Takuhaibin (virtually every hotel can sort this out for you, and the case will be waiting at the destination hotel when you arrive). It doesn't cost much and is extremely reliable.

If you have two cases, you can rearrange to keep what you need for the next destination in one and send the other to the destination after that, and so on.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 12:58 AM
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Not all the overheads were big enough to take my 22 inch rolling case. There is space at the end of each carriage but it can fill up. I noticed that the N'Ex had locks for that space, but no other train did, so I imagine that was defence against visitors... Your life will be much easier if you either pack light (my technique) or use the forwarding service. There would not have been room in some of my hotel rooms for a lot of luggage, but you may be sleeping more expensively.

mrwunrfl - yes, I realized later that you were talking about the time between planes, although with an unprotected connection I would want a fair amount of time. I took the limousine bus from KIX, which I think is slower than the train, but it took me quite close to my hotel and saved a final leg from the station. It left from right outside the terminal, but since Peach uses Terminal 2 there weren't as many options.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 04:25 AM
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We never had a problem with luggage racks in the shinkansen, and last time we traveled with two fairly large duffels because of the season (November, heavier clothing) and we had the hobbits with us.

To be clear the "12-18 days" above meant the 12th-18th.
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