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3.5 Weeks in Japan (First-time) Itinerary Help

3.5 Weeks in Japan (First-time) Itinerary Help

Old Jan 15th, 2017, 10:15 AM
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3.5 Weeks in Japan (First-time) Itinerary Help

Hello!

I am planning a 3-month trip through Asia this summer before I start medical school in the fall as a last hurrah. I am traveling alone in Japan and I'm primarily interested in the outdoors, Japanese culture, Japanese food, photography, meeting new people, and going out a few times a week (so basically everything!) I will be traveling on a relatively tight budget ( Kanazawa via Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route (9000 yen?); 1 night in Kanazawa
May 22: Explore Kanazawa + JR to Kyoto in late afternoon; 1 night in Kyoto
May 23 - May 27 (5 days): Explore Kyoto + Day trip to Nara
May 28 - May 30 (3 days): Osaka (from Kyoto via JR) + Day trip to Himeji and Okayama (from Osaka via JR)
May 31: Matsue (from Osaka via JR); 1 night in Matsue
June 1 - June 2 (2 days): Hiroshima (from Matsue --> Okayama via JR) + Day trip to Miyajima; 2 nights in Hiroshima
June 3 - 4 (2 days): Osaka (from Hiroshima via JR)
June 5: Osaka (KIX) to Shanghai (PVG) via JR
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 12:15 PM
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Not enough time in Kanazawa, too much time in Osaka. Look at going to Matsue from Kanazawa.
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 03:32 PM
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I'm guessing that your rail tickets are not included in the $65/day?

Because even if you can manage to stay in $20 hostels every night, nearly everywhere you go in Japan has an entry fee. $10 to $20 for many castles and $3 to $10 for shrines, $5 to $12 for museums, $75 for a day at Disney, the $90 alpine bus. The bus from Nikko to Chuzenji and the waterfalls is about $20, and even eating in convenience stores will run at least $15 a day. Add in an occasional coffee or beer, restaurant meal, subway/bus ticket and and I think you are going to spend a lot more than expected.

I'm not trying to discourage you. Even on a budget, Japan is a great place to travel, but you might find a slightly larger budget will be more realistic.
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 03:51 PM
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It looks very active, so I presume you're OK with a brisk itinerary.
The first question is if you get your money's worth with the pass, and it looks like you do. With a few caveats.
But first, since you're on a tighter budget, from Narita you should use the ¥1000 bus.
http://accessnarita.jp/en/home/
For getting around Tokyo, you can save money on the 3 day subway pass.
http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/v...dex.html#anc03
For cheap places to stay, look at:
http://www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/featu...stels-in-Tokyo
For Kamakura, get an early morning start and add Enoshima. On the way back in the evening you could see a bit of Yokohama too if you wished. If the hydrangea are in bloom, you're in luck. Kamakura is famous for them and they're beautiful.
For the Fuji Lakes, the pass will only take to to Otsuki. Then you pay the rest of the way. Or get a special pass.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6905.html
If you can see the shibazakura, great.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6919.html
The pass won't help you much for Kamikochi.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6040.html
not to mention non-JR transport for the Alpine Route
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7551.html

I agree that you're shortchanging Kanazawa.
And if you're already seeing Tokyo, you can mostly skip Osaka in the day. If you want to have a new unique experience, why not do an overnight at Koyasan?
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4900.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_012.html

Also not to knock the place, but why all the way to Matsue? And why backtrack from Okayama to Osaka if you're going there? With a good connection from Osaka it's almost 4 hours sitting on trains.
At the end...again Osaka. There are many other places you could go - Kobe, Hikone, Iga-Ueno, Miyama, Amahashinodate, Ise, even Nagoya & Inuyama.

Look up all these on www.japan-guide.com and www.jnto.go.jp
and see if any of these appeal to you.
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 07:22 PM
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Congrats on your acceptance into med school!

Just a few comments on your plan:
• I seriously regret spending only 2 nights in Kanasawa. One night there seems very, very little!
• 5 days is a nice chunk for Kyoto and Nara. Nonetheless, FWIW, I felt rushed to fit my priorities for the area into 6 days.
• I wasn’t very impressed by Okayama, but I acknowledge that others seem to have had a more pleasant experience there.
• I was glad that I chose to spend the night of my time in Hiroshima on peaceful, quiet Miyajima, and to see that lovely island before and after daytrippers were there – BUT my timing was very different, so your plan may make much more sense for YOU.
• I didn’t visit Osaka, and so can’t speak to it. FWIW, I have no regrets about skipping it.

I agree with lcuy that your budget seems a low to me, but I can’t speak to whether it is manageable or not. I would encourage you to consider what you will do if you can’t do everything you want on this budget, or if you find yourself running out of money while on the road. I’ve been there, and it can be very disconcerting! (I remember a museum I decided to skip in Europe because I didn’t feel that I could afford it’s entry fee – and I still regret that I couldn't find a way to free even $5 more from my remaining budget -- I was already limiting myself to only bread-cheese-&-fruit meals, pre-paid transportation, etc.)

Hope these comments help!
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 07:47 PM
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Wow! Thanks you all for the suggestions!

@thursdaysd Kanazawa --> Matsue seems really far! What would be the advantages to doing this?


@lcuy I think you are right and I guess my budget for $65/day is not very reasonable. Do you think $75-80 (I could probably stretch it up to $90 is necessary) would be feasible?


@Adastra2200
I've actually gotten some advice on a different forum that the JR pass may not be worth it for me. I could probably have more time to move around earlier which would probably make the latter part of my trip a bit more reasonable. Any thoughts on whether I would lose a lot of valuable time by switching to buses?

Thanks for the tip on Eonishima, I will add that! I do plan on seeing the Shibazakura festival as well. Do you think it would be enough if I add 1 more day to Kanazawa? I will probably carve out some more time from Osaka.

The appeal of Matsue for me is the castle, garden, and the art museum. Do you think I am traveling too far just to see those things?

Finally, the backtrack to Osaka is to have reasonable access to KIX. I am flying out to Shanghai and there are some extremely affordable flights via Peach Airline out of Osaka and Tokyo (which would require even more traveling).


@kja Thank you! I will definitely revise my itinerary to add more time to Kanzawa. I'm also probably going to move time spent in Osaka to Kyoto.

So you did an overnight in Miyajima? I will consider spending a night there.

Thank you for that suggestion! I actually did some similar trips in Europe while I was studying abroad, and looking back, I should have budgeted more. I'll revise my budget to $75-80/day (up to $90-100 on select days). Do you think that would be more feasible?
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Old Jan 15th, 2017, 11:11 PM
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I don't know who said what elsewhere, but I added up the cost of the segments as you listed them and you did better than break even. If you like, you can try it yourself at
http://www.hyperdia.com
You can see regular fares, routes and schedules there also.

Frankly, switching from bullet trains to buses pretty much makes your itinerary impossible without cutting out a lot of places or seeing a lot less.
Adding a day to Kanazawa is very worthwhile though.

By backtracking, I'm referring to May 31 - if you really are going to Matsue, why go back to Osaka from Okayama? Stay overnight in Okayama and save yourself a couple of hours. You'd be going back and changing trains in Okayama anyway since you'd have to get off the bullet train there to catch the ltd express train for Matsue. With a good connection, from Okayama to Matsue it takes about 2½ hours.
BTW the Adachi Museum is not in Matsue - it's about an hour away. You are overnighting there, so if you could devote a fair chunk of time on June 1st to see the rest of what you want in Matsue, it is doable, but then it's another 3½ hours from there to Hiroshima.
Only you can decide if the gain is worth the pain. The garden is often rated as the best in Japan, but you can only peer into it from outside.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5806.html
There is of course no shortage of closer alternatives. Kurashiki, the Kibi Plain, Onomichi, Kotohira, Takamatsu, Iwakuni, etc. You need to research more and decide yourself. Also if you like gardens, there is Korakuen in Okayama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zAI3_N7NEM
which is one of Japan's traditional Top 3 (#1 being Kenrokuen in Kanazawa), and Ritsurin in Takamatsu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afx-Ju52FiY
which is very good too. Plus the half day hike in Kotohira between Okayama and Takamatsu is one of the best you'll ever take in your life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ley9rVIewoQ

You still have time to consider and decide.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 12:07 AM
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Yes, I spent a night on Miyajima, and I enjoyed it immensely! But as already noted, part of that was dependent on my specific timing. If it works for you, go for it! If not, and if you are willing to do single-night stays, considering a night there in addition to a night in Hiroshima could work. JMO.

Sorry, but I can't speak to your daily budget -- just not an aspect of travel about which I can speak meaningfully. I can say that after many, many wonderful international trips, I now feel fortunate to aim low (e.g., selecting lodging at the low end of those that meet my criteria), plan a splurge or two along the way, and otherwise not worry too much. BUT that wouldn't have worked for me in my more budget-constrained days, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it unless you think it through. Even a single unexpectedly large expense can really throw a planned budget off .. as I know all too well.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 05:40 AM
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"Kanazawa --> Matsue seems really far! What would be the advantages to doing this?"

They are on the same side of Honshu. I thought I had planned to do this in 2010, but when I look at hyperdia now it insists on sending me back to Osaka, so forget I mentioned it. I like Matsue but if that is the only place you are going on that side of Honshu I'm not sure it's worth it.

The Adachi museum was one of the high points of my recent trip, however, it is a bit of a slog to get to by public transport. You need to take a local train to a shuttle bus and the train, unusually for Japan, isn't always on time. Read the timetables (get them from the excellent T.I. in Matsue) very carefully, and be sure to pick up a return voucher for the (free) bus on arrival, as it fills up. It is true that you cannot actually walk in the gardens, they are designed as pictures - even more artificial than most Japanese gardens. It does make taking photos easier! I spent several hours there.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 11:01 AM
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You really need a second night in Matsue, considering the time and cost of getting there. You want some time to visit Izumo Taisha. An alternative would be to visit the castle in Hikonne instead of Matsue-jo.

Here are some transport options that might save some money over the 21-day JR Pass:

Consider using Tobu Railways to get to Nikko. Tobu has some passes and a bus option. You might be able to use a Tokyo Wide Area Pass - it could be used for Nikko and Fujigoko.

You could take a bus from Shinjuku Bus Center to Matsumoto.

Matsumoto to Shinano-Omachi, at the start of the Alpine Route, is inexpensive on JR. So, instead of 2 nights Osaka you could have 1 night in Okayama and add a night to Matsue (and Izumo Taisha).

Toyama, at the other end of the Route, to Kanazawa can be traveled on non-JR trains for ¥1,220 and 58 minutes. The shinkansen would be ¥3,130 and 19 minutes.

You could skip that first stop in Osaka. Go to Okayama with a stop in Himeji on the way.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 11:04 AM
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This sentence:
So, instead of 2 nights Osaka you could have 1 night in Okayama and add a night to Matsue (and Izumo Taisha).

was supposed to go after this sentence:
You could skip that first stop in Osaka. Go to Okayama with a stop in Himeji on the way.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 11:34 AM
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The length of your Kyoto stay is pushing you into a multi-week JR Pass. Consider moving Kyoto to the end of your trip.

Figure out the cost of the travel that gets you to Kanazawa (via what I suggested above, Tobu, the Tokyo WAP, bus, JR, non-JR trains).

You could start a 7-day pass in Kanazawa.

Travel Kanazawa to Himeji, visit the castle, spend the night in Okayama. Then two nights in Matsue. Another night in Okayama, maybe, with a visit to the garden and castle there. Then two nights for Hiroshima/Miyajima. That's 6 nights, so 7-days.

Or Kanazawa- Okayama- Matsue- Hiroshima- Himeji on the way to Kyoto.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 11:34 AM
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Note that rather than the full JR Pass, you may find one or more of the JR West Passes costs less and works for you.

http://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/ticket/pass/

I was able to buy mine IN Japan, unlike the JR Pass, although I also saved money by ordering it online.
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Old Jan 16th, 2017, 08:57 PM
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Yes, the Sanyo-Sanin pass might work and let you keep Kyoto after Kanazawa. Would be ¥6,700 from Kanazawa to Kyoto on a JR limited express train and then ¥19,000 for the pass. So, there is a small savings. Check the conditions, but I think it would include Nozomi shinkansen trains which would boost its convenience. Leaving from Kyoto, then: 1 nt Okayama, 2 nts Matsue, 2 nts Hiroshima, 1 nt Osaka, and then on day 7 the pass would get you to KIX.
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 11:55 AM
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Thank you for all the help! I have made a number of revisions that I am still working on it ironing out the fine details, but I'll try to share it when I am done.

Most importantly, the changes are:

1) I have decided against getting a 3-week JR pass. I'll be using buses for the first 2/3 of the trip up through Kyoto. I will then get 5-day JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass (13,000 Yen) to explore Hiroshima, Miyajima, Okayama, and Himeji. I will probably start in Kyoto and end in Osaka.

I have a few questions for this itinerary:
-Would this be an adequate amount of time?
-I did the math for this trip and it seems like there is no way I could get a better deal through buses (each one-way bus was something like 3000-4000yen). Is this correct?

2) I have added a whole day Kanazawa (2 full days). My plan for the Hokuriku region now looks like this: 1 day in Matsumoto (more like 2/3 including travel time from Tokyo), 1 day in Kamikochi, 1 day in the Alpine Route, 2 days in Kanazawa.

3) I will spend more time in Kyoto (6 days) and will NOT be going to Osaka before Hiroshima, Miyajima, Okayama, and Himeji. I will save Osaka for the last 2 days in my trip.

4) I will be cutting out Matsue. It is too much traveling and I don't think it would be worth it as it would force me to follow a "tighter" schedule and I would have to get the JR Sanyo Sanin Area Pass which is 6000yen more (although it is 2 days longer).
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 05:06 PM
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Much better!
I'd still want another day in Kanazawa. ;-)
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 11:04 PM
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I cannot comment of your travel arrangements or lodgings as I do not travel like this anymore. You will need AC, especially in July and August. I did however travel like this in Europe and Asia for many two month journeys in my youth so I just have a few comments. First you will find that you cannot keep up a fast pace of travel forever. Every 10-14 days requires a slow day to catch your breath. This is especially true as the weather will likely be quite hot in Japan. Moving fast also tends to make one see "things" as opposed to people and the culture. The cost of food is not bad to me as my usual meals in Japan tend to be less than $10. You can eat out of the department store food halls quite well. If you wait until an hour or so before closing time you will find prepared foods like sushi plates discounted 25-40% in such food halls. Add fruit and tap water and you will be fine. Lastly do not think of this as your last chance to travel. You will probably have plenty of time in medical school for more travel if you wish. All bets are off however after you graduate.
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Old Jan 24th, 2017, 11:29 PM
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I can't comment either on pricing for budget accommodation, or the travel (since you have already looked it all up and have that to hand).

For food, one can certainly eat cheaply and still very well - there are many many chains and independents offering simple dishes such as beef on rice, chicken on rice, or noodles, ramen, katsudon or curry, omuraise (omelette and rice) and many others for less than $10. That's really not going to be difficult. What will put the price up is if you order drinks in the cafe/ restaurant rather than drinking the free water / tea. To save money, keep your drinking (whether that's beer, coffee or softs) outside of meals, buying from convenience stores / vending machines / supermarkets. To give an example, in many cases, we could find a very filling and delicious meal for well under 1000 yen per person but soft drinks would often be 300 or more, beers around 500 or more.
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Old Jan 25th, 2017, 11:34 PM
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Just saw that I missed that you are traveling in May. Not too bad of a time as you are after Golden week and before the rainy season. Will be warm and humid but probably not hot. I agree that you can also eat cheap at 7-11 or other convenience stores and there are also standing restaurants for ramen that are inexpensive. Often many inexpensive restaurants near train stations. Drink water or tea to keep costs down. Beer and drinks at clubs and bars not cheap.
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Old Jan 26th, 2017, 06:30 PM
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I also missed that this trip is for May! Even if it's a bit of a splurge, see if you can get a ticket for the magnificent Kamagawa Odori in Kyoto:
http://www.pref.kyoto.jp/visitkyoto/...kyoto_city/22/

Good luck!
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