3 1/2 week trip to Japan advise please!

Old Jan 17th, 2014, 07:29 AM
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3 1/2 week trip to Japan advise please!

After living in Japan for 2 years in the mid-70's I am finally getting to go back for a visit. I lived near Kamakura and of course want to revisit that area. Also traveled to Kyoto, Tokyo, Hakone, and Nara when living there. Not much travel in the country other than that tho.

Is the following itinerary making sense? I am afraid that I'm trying to put too much in and moving from place to place too often.

Any and all comments appreciated!

10/18 - Leave JFK
10/19 - Arrive in Japan, Overnight in Tokyo
10/20 - Tokyo
10/21 - Tokyo
10/22 - Tokyo

10/23 - Kamakura
10/24 - Kamakura

10/25 - Matsumoto
10/26 - Snow Monkeys

10/27 - Kamikochi

10/28 - Hirayu Onsen

10/29 - Takayama
10/30 - Takayama

10/31 - Shirakawago/Kanazawa
11/1 - Kanazawa

11/2 - Koya-san

11/3 - Osaka

11/4 - Takamatsu
11/5 - Takamatsu

11/6 - Matsuyama

11/7 - Miyajima Island
11/8 - Miyajima Island

11/9 - Travel to Kyoto
11/10 - Kyoto
11/11 - Kyoto
11/12 - Kyoto during the morning, travel to the airport, Overnight next to the airport

11/13 - Depart Japan, arrive JFK
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 08:29 AM
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I'll leave the itinerary comments to others, but, unless you have already purchased your tickets and have a morning flight, there's no particular need to overnight at the airport before returning to JFK. At least four non-stops to JFK (on ANA, JAL, Delta, and United) depart between 2:30 and 5:45pm. For any of those flights, you could leave Kyoto at a reasonable hour and get to NRT in plenty of time for the flight.
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Yep, but screwed up and already have tickets. Late morning flight. I originally thought I'd spend a couple of days at the end in Tokyo and leave early to Narita to catch the flight.
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 10:28 AM
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I have quite a drive once I get to JFK to get home. No excuse for not totally thinking it through.
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 02:09 PM
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You may have already done so, but I'd just check the timings of the journey from Kanazawa to Koya-san as you ideally want to arrive at Koya-san fairly early afternoon. The timings for dinner, certainly in our temple, were rather early. We also wanted to ensure we had time for a walk in the cemetery during the daylight - went at the same time of year as you and it was dark fairly early in the evening. That said, we headed off fairly early after breakfast, of course you could tour the cemetery the next morning...
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 03:21 PM
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Kavey, thanks. I'm not sure of the actual travel times yet for the places that are new to me. I'll check that.
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 03:29 PM
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If you leave Kanazawa at 8 am you can actually get to Koyasan around 1 pm - that's not terrible imo....check out travel times on hyperdia.com
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 03:51 PM
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Kamakura could be done as a day trip from Tokyo.
I don't think you would need two full days there unless you have a special interest.
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 04:01 PM
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Apologies for not fully reading original post.
You do have a special interest in Kamakura
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Old Jan 17th, 2014, 06:28 PM
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Should be a great trip! Just a few observations:

I gave Kanazawa only 1.5 days, and really wish I had given it more. Don't miss Nomura-ke!
http://experience-kanazawa.com/sight.../nomurake.html

From what I read, the specific temple at which one stays on Koya-san makes a huge difference to the quality of the experience. I enjoyed Shojoshinin very much:
http://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/r...n=Shojoshin-in
Don't miss Okuno-in at dawn or dusk (or both).
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4901.html

On Miyajima, I enjoyed Momiji-so, which is a bit more affordable than many ryokan:
http://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/r...yokan=Momijiso

Hope that helps!
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Old Jan 18th, 2014, 03:11 AM
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Thank you for these specific recommendations. I'll definitely check into them.
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Old Jan 18th, 2014, 08:29 AM
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Your passage through the Japan Alps is leisurely compared with what most people do. I take it that your itin listing means that you intend to stay overnight on the dates listed.

If that is the case then it means you are staying at Hirayu Onsen but just stopping at Shirakawago on the way to Kanazawa. Which is fine if you have a particular interest in Hirayu, but otherwise I would recommend stopping at Hirayu on the way from Kamikochi to Takayama and then staying overnight in Shirakawago.

Like Kavey, I noticed the Kanazawa to Koyasan leg in particular due to the length of the trip. I try to limit a day's travel in Japan to 4 hours or less. That is my rule and I sometimes break it if there is no suitable alternative.

I think that an alternative for you is to go to Osaka before Koyasan, then Koya to Takamatsu. It kind of depends on how you plan to get to Takamatsu, whether via Awaji Island or via the Seto-Ohashi bridges. The former, which I have not done, gives you a stop at Naruto for the whirlpools which is something to see and I don't think the travel time would violate my 4 hour rule.

The other route to Takamatsu offers spectacular scenery while traveling across the bridges by rail. I made that trip around sunset and remember my head spinning around to take in the views. That route doesn't offer much time benefit when compared with Kanazawa-Koyasan, tho.

Matsuyama is where fell in love with Japan. I recommend staying at Hotel Patio Dogo. Definitely visit Dogo Onsen and the castle, of course. I stayed two nights in Matsuyama, arriving there at night, then a day of sightseeing, including a soak at Dogo Onsen, of course. Next day another visit to Dogo, this time doing it correctly and not making a fuss. There are two tickets you can get, one for the bath and one for the bath and the tea room upstairs. This was explained to me the first day, but the explanation was in Japanese, so I didn't get it. The fuss was about that (the tickets and not bathing etiquette) and was amusing as it played out.

I left Matsuyama late afternoon using the hydrofoil across the Seto Naikai. This was quite beautiful at sunset. The boat travels thru a national park, after all.

I suggest taking that boat across to Ofuna, the Hiroshima port, and look into taking a boat from there to Miyajima. There is a boat, if not from Ofuna then from nearby.

Takamatsu is the only place on your itinerary that I haven't visited.

So, my recommendations suggest this:

10/27 - Kamikochi
10/28 - Hirayu Onsen/Takayama
10/29 - Takayama
10/30 - Shirakawago
10/31 - Kanazawa
11/1 - Kanazawa
11/2 - Osaka
11/3 - Koya-san
11/4 - Takamatsu

or
10/27 - Kamikochi/Hirayu Onsen
10/28 - Takayama

You could leave Kanazawa on the 1st in late afternoon or at night and spend two night in Osaka and then Koya. Or Osaka-Koya-Osaka for the three nights.

When I visited Hirayu and Kamikochi I did it one day: bus from Takayama to Hirayu, soak in onsen, bus to Kamikochi, walk the circuit with a stop for lunch and another soak, then bus to Matsumoto for the night.
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Old Jan 18th, 2014, 09:07 AM
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With a many-stop itinerary like yours, I think the next step is to flesh out your itinerary with planned departure or arrival times, with an eye on available daylight. To that end, I suggest:

Arrive Shirakawago by 3PM to check in at a gassho zukuri and have a couple of hours of daylight.
Depart Shirakawago around noon.
Reach Shikoku island before dark.
Arrive Miyajima by 3PM

Hmm. Kyushu Bassho is in November. That is the grand sumo tournament in Fukuoka. Last year it started on November 10. If you are interested in this, and the timing is right, then it would be possible to leave Miyajima in the morning, go to Fukuoka for the day, and then take the shinkansen to Kyoto that night.

Another option would be to move Kyoto after Kanazawa. Fly from Fukuoka to Tokyo at/near the end of your trip. You are going to be too early for fall colors in Kyoto during your trip, so moving it up would not hurt. A Fukuoka-Tokyo flight might cost you all of $100 and the FUK airport is convenient to the city.
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Old Jan 18th, 2014, 05:07 PM
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I would like to catch a grand sumo tournament.
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Old Jan 18th, 2014, 05:09 PM
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It starts the 9th. Somehow I need to work this into my schedule.
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Old Jan 20th, 2014, 03:50 AM
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New layout. Comments?

The breaks are when I travel to a new overnight location.

10/19 - Arrive in Japan, Overnight in Tokyo
10/20 - Tokyo
10/21 - Tokyo
10/22 - Tokyo

10/23 - Kamakura
10/24 - Kamakura

10/25 - Matsumoto
10/26 - Snow Monkey

10/27 - Kamikochi

10/28 - Hirayu Onsen

10/29 - Takayama
10/30 - Takayama

10/31 - Shirakawago/Kanazawa
11/1 - Kanazawa

11/2 - Koya-san

11/3 - Kyoto
11/4 - Kyoto
11/5 - Kyoto
11/6 - Kyoto

11/7 - Miyajima Island
11/8 - Miyajima Island

11/9 - Yufuin Onsen

11/10 - Fukuoka
11/11 - Fukuoka, Sumo tournament

11/12 - Travel to the airport, Overnight next to the airport

11/13 - Depart Japan
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Old Jan 20th, 2014, 08:31 AM
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That will work. I would go Kanazawa to Kyoto on the 2nd and then Koyasan overnight from Kyoto returning to Kyoto or going on to Miyjima.

You mean two nights in Kamakura? You could visit Hakone easily from there. An option to consider is doing the Hakone loop on the 24th and then take the Odakyu train to Shinjuku for the night.

Nov 8, I would spend the night, at least, in Hiroshima. Visit the Peace Park that afternoon or the next morning. Staying near Hiroshima station on the 8th would also shorten and ease your travel to Yufuin on the 9th. And there would be life at night in Hiroshima, unlike Miyajima.

You have some options on which JR pass you use. A 21-day pass is probably a bit of overkill, but it might be worth the difference (vs another pass + pay as you go) for the convenience and flexibility.

The sumo tournament will end at 6PM. Plan to get there at 1PM or earlier if you like, but definitely stay to the end. It would be possible to fly from Fukuoka to Tokyo Haneda after the tournament (likely won't find a flight to Narita that late). Travel by rail from Hakata to Narita would be 7+ hours.

I mentioned the cheap airfare that MIGHT be available for flying from Fukuoka. An excellent option would be to use some frequent flyer miles for that, especially if the special fare is not offered (actually, I have a vague recollection that it is not offered in November). But a one-way domestic Japan FF award would only cost 6,000 miles the last time I checked (United miles).
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Old Jan 20th, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the feedback mruinflr. I'll look into shifting Koyosan.

The two nights in Kamakura are definitely too many but I lived just south of there for 2 years in the mid-70s and need a separate day to just look up the old neighborhood. Otherwise one would be plenty certainly. I lived about a 10 minute walk to the Summer Imperial Palace in Hayama. It's a short train trip to zushi and then a short bus ride to Hayama from Kamakura. I really want to not feel rushed trying to remember what it all looked like before.

The 7 hour train is fine with us. We love train trips in general. Hopefully the scenery will be enjoyable. I'll check into the route. I agree that two nights in Miyajima is too much and one should probably move to Hiroshima.

Does the JR rail pass work for the Tokyo and/or Kyoto subways systems?
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Old Jan 20th, 2014, 11:15 AM
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> Does the JR rail pass work for the Tokyo and/or Kyoto subways systems?

Only on the JR Lines. For tourists, that mostly means the Yamanote and Chuo lines in Tokyo, and not any subway lines. (The Yamanote Line encircles central Tokyo, while the Chuo line is primarily useful for going from the Tokyo station area to Shinjuku.
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Old Jan 20th, 2014, 05:24 PM
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Ok, if your plan is to take the train on the 12th then that excludes the 5-day Sanyo-N.Kyushu passes.

The 21-day pass costs ¥57,700

A 21-day pass ending on the 12th would start on the 23rd. It would only be good for the 23rd to get you to Kamakura ¥900, 24th maybe not useful at all, 25th good for travel to Matsumoto ¥ 6,720, and 26th for Matsumoto-Nagano-Matsumoto about ¥ 5,200. That is all about ¥13,000 for the first part of your train travel.

After that, you would have no use of a JR Pass until you leave Kanazawa on the 1st or 2nd.

The 14-day option staring on Nov 1 would get you from Kanazawa, ..., to Narita Airport. That would cost the ¥13,000 for the first part, plus ¥45,100 for the pass, so call it ¥58,000.

So, the 21-day pass beats the 14-day pass.

A 7-day pass could start in Kyoto on the 6th if you left for Koyasan that day. That would mean ¥13,000 for the first part plus ¥6,500 for Kanazawa-Kyoto. Add in ¥28,300 and the total is about ¥48,000. If you go to Koyasan before the 6th then the JR part of that trip would be something like ¥1500 if you returned to Kyoto. A 7-day pass would mean your JR cost would be ¥48,000 to ¥50,000.

So the 21-day pass will cost you about ¥7,700 more than a 7-day pass + the cost to pay as you go all the way to Kyoto. The convenience and flexibility of the 21-day pass might be worth that difference. By flexibility, I mean you could totally rewrite the itinerary on the fly.
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