bali is a possibility..

penang malaysia is another

I kind of decided to do Vietnam. and Siem Rap. Any sugestions?

You've decided to go to Vietnam and Siem Reap instead of the itinerary above?

for VN get assistence from tonkin travel in hanoi...wonderful to work with..

is this this year?? if so you better get cracking!!

Kathie, I read this as meaning she intends to go to Vietnam and Siem Reap from Phuket for the final five (actually four full) days instead of to Indonesia.
Gabi_Rebeschini, most people will probably advise you that it's enough at this stage in your trip to travel back through Bangkok and on to Siem Reap for the duration of your trip. You simply don't have enough time available to add on Vietnam for the remaining four full days you'll have on the ground, exclusive of travel. Four days in Siem Reap would be about ideal in my view in order to view Angkor Wat.

Vietnam is amazing. Decide what you would rather see though as I dont think you would have enough time to see it all.

Saigon is the bustling city and plenty to see such as the Cu Chi tunnels. Its very hot here!

Along the coast you have all the amazing beaches.

Hanoi is a dreary beautiful town with so much history and from here you can take a 3 hour trip and do an overnight stay on Ha Long Bay.

All would be beautiful but we spent two weeks alone seeing all those things and still wasnt long enough!

If you plan to spend your two and a half weeks in VN and Siem Reap, that is do-able as long as you have very limited goals in VN. As said above, you can't see it all in your limited time.

If WillJame is correct and instead, you thought you'd go to VN and Siem Reap for your last 4-5 days, then choose one city and only one city to visit. No way can you do even Siem Reap plus another city in a mere five days.

Hi Kathie, Will and Jame!

Thank you for helping, i have read a lot of your previous comments and posts. this is a great community, i'm happy to be part of it now.

I have decided to do Vietnam and Siem reap instead of Indonesia. and also changed the itinerary to start in Vietnam, then North of thailand, then Koh phi phi.
Still i would only have about 5 days in Vietnam (and Siem Reap)
I though this would be a better flow to the trip.

What i'm thinking is, Hanoi, sapa, halong bay, siem reap, chiang mai ( possible chiang rai) then koh phi phi.


But since you say it's too short, would you say Siem reap or Hanoi??
thank you!

With a mere 5 days, go to Siem Reap. If you fly, it will take you a full day to get from Koh PhiPhi to Siem Reap. So at most, you'll have 4 days in Siem Reap.

You may want to give us your new itinerary so people can offer suggestions.

<<<Hanoi is a dreary beautiful town>>>

I didn't find Hanoi dreary at all!

this is what i have in mind.
i need help planing my days in Hanoi and around, also between chiang rai and chiang mai. should i eliminate one of them?

Sep 26 NYC- Shanghai (meeting mom and sister)
Sep 27 Shanghai
Sep 28 Shanghai - Hanoi
Sep 30 hanoi
Oct 01 halong bay
Oct 02 siem reap
Oct 03 siem reap
Oct 04 chiang rai
Oct 05 chiang rai
Oct 06 chiang mai
Oct 07 chiang mai
Oct 08 chiang mai- phuket - koh phi phi
Oct 09 koh phi phi
Oct 10 koh phi phi
Oct 11 riley beach
Oct 12 riley beach
Oct 13 fly back to NYC

I think you are trying to do way too much. You will spend a lot of time getting from place to place and very little time in each place you have chosen.

Hanoi is a fascinating city. We spent a week there and enjoyed it. You have just one day in Hanoi, then you spend the next day driving to and from Halong Bay - that is 6 hours of driving for a few hours at Halong Bay. Is that worth it to you?

Then you fly to Siem Reap and have one full day before flying to Chiang Rai. It will take much of a day to get to CHiang Rai, as you'll have to fly to Bangkok, change planes and airlines to get to Chiang Rai. So you may have one day in CHiang Rai. You'll then go overland to Chiang Mai and spend a day there before flying to Phuket and taking the boat to PhiPhi. That is another full day of travel. I assume you mean Railey beach, a boat or ferry ride away from PhiPhi. Are you flying back to NYC from Phuket, or do you have to go to bangkok to catch your international flight?

Basically, you haven't taken travel time into consideration. You have 17 days and have 7 locations (not counting Halong Bay). For 17 days, 5 locations is the absolute maximum I'd recommend. Three or four locations would give you a better experience. Take a good look at your itinerary and decide what are the most important things for you to see/do/experience.

Also think about visas - you'll need a visa for China - $140 per person (for perhaps a day and a half in Shanghai), must be obtained in advance, for your two days in VN, you will each have to get a VN visa either in advance at $65 per person or as a pre-arranged visa ($60-80 per person), Cambodia also requires a visa, though it can be purchased on arrival.

Consider flights - you can't fly directly from Siem Reap to Chaing Rai or Chiang Mai, for instance. I'd suggest you cut at least two places (plus cut Halong Bay) from your itinerary. It will still be a busy trip, and you won't have long in any one place, but at least you'll have a brief experience of each place.

kathie. thank your for the honesty.

I will try eliminate some destinations, i appreciate if you can keep working with me
I haven't talked about myself at all... I'm from brazil, but have lived in NY for the past 5 yrs.. i have also lived in Cape Town, Paris, London, and miami and traveled to New Zealand, Japan, Alaska, Spain, Portugal, Chile, Argentina,.....

South East Asia is very big on my list
I'd be happy to share experience in one of this places if you are interested.

Like most people here, I don't like group tours... will opt for private transfers.. and possibly stay of tourist traps..

My boyfriend and I are flying to Shanghai to meet up with my sister and mom...

Koh PhiPhi and Railey beach are a must for me.
I would like to get to know a bit more of culture, temples, forest, elephants. Would say Chiang Mai or Chaing Rai would provide a better experience?

regarding VN , why do you say not to go to Halong bay?

Try working backwards here. You basically have 11 days between your arrival in Southeast Asia and your departure. You want to spend 4 days on the beach in Thailand. That leaves 7 days.

In my opinion you should pick two places for those 7 days. So among North Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia, what are your #1 and #2?

My #1 would be Siem Reap and I would spend at least 4 days there. After that, no opinion, both are good choices. (As is Indonesia, but you can do that next time.)

You don't have enough time to go to Halong Bay. A day trip there is at least 6 hours of a pretty boring drive. generally, people who enjoy Halong Bay go there and spend and night on the bay in a junk.

Marmot is right, if the four days at a beach are a must, then choose two places. Like Marmot, my #1 place would be Siem Reap. If elephants are high on your list, take a look at the Anantara at the Golden Triangle. It's a gorgeous resort and has a division of the Thai Elephant Conservation center on the grounds.

I think you need to cut VN for this trip. Go there next time.

ax halong bay, ax CM & CR

add to SR
add to Hanoi

go to one beach place

ok. so i'm decided on 4 beach days, plus SR... now i have to decide btwn Hanoi(and surroundings ) or chiang rai...

has anyone ever driven from siem reap to bangkok?? or hired a driver?

The drive is supposed to be long and grueling, although the roads may be completed at this time. With your limited travel days, IMO you would be wasting your time driving.

I agree that you should cut Halong bay from your itinerary. If you go to vn, Hanoi is a charming city and deserves more than a day.

Have you been to Bangkok ever? Would you consider going there in lieu of Hanoi? You will likely have to fly through Bangkok anyway in order to get Thai beaches and northern Thailand. We spent 8 days in Bangkok and didn't run out of things to see. There's a lot to do in vn also and you may be better off saving it for another trip when you will have the time to enjoy it.

The drive between Bangkok and Siem Reap takes time - basically you'll use up a whole day (each way) of your already too short time in SE Asia. You cannot hire a driver all the way to Siem Reap - you'd have to be dropped of at the Cambodian border, walk across and get a new driver on the other side. There are also lots of scams for the unwary. If you have any interest in doing this, read all about ti at www.talesofasia.com

dgunbug has the right idea - choosing Bangkok, Siem Reap and the beach (cutting out Hanoi and Northern Thailand) will make the logistics of your trip easier.

Also, take a look at the Bangkok Air Discovery Pass. If you fly three legs on Bangkok Air, the Pass will save you a significant amount of money.

Basically, you are choosing between spending your time in Vietnam with a trip to Siem Reap or Thailand with a trip to Siem Reap. Thailand is the obvious choice for the beach vacation. Bangkok, therefore, is the city for you to see this time.
Divide your time among the north and south of Thailand, Bangkok and Siem Reap. The order of things can be determined by travel arrangements, e.g., especially through use of a Bangkok Air Discovery Pass. See http://tinyurl.com/7vjm3dv
You'll have quite a time doing your planning using the Discovery Pass, but it will let you fly, e.g., from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Siem Reap, and Phuket at quite a savings. (This is how you get well acquainted with Bangkok on one of your trips through.)
So, e.g., if you decide to finish up your vacation on the beach before returning to NYC, see how you can route the rest of your trip with the fewest segments of air travel. Don't book any hotels until you have the flights nailed down.

Gabi, For culture, temples, forest and elephants, I second Kathie's recommendation of the Anantara in Thailand's golden triangle area north of Chiang Rai - a magical destination with views over the jungle of the misty Mehkong and the hills of Laos. Besides the extraordinary elephant experience, you can hike to hill tribes, do market visits and cooking classes, take for longboat rides and even go on a day trip with a guide into Burma (not the "real" Burma, but a taste, if you venture beyond the border area).

We traveled there on two quick flights from Siem Reap through BKK to Chiang Rai, where a driver met us, took us to the Chaing Rai market and then to the Anantara. It was a very easy travel day, with great scenery.

FYI - You're getting great advice here, but many travelers on Fodors are much older than you and might have different travel tastes. You might want also want to check out www.afar.com

but anantara's prices have gotten outrageous from all reports---at most it is worth $175.

I think the Anantara is now all-inclusive for certain seasons - nightly rate covers meals, spa treatments and all the activities. I'm not defending the new policy, but it's a lot less than the Four Seasons Tented Camp down the road, which offers a similar elephant experience.

if that is true and the food is decent, then it would be nice

thank you everyone.
Any suggestions on what is a must in hanoi? Most of what i read is about places around Hanoi, but not particularly in the city.
i was inclined to drive to Halong bay and stay overnight in the cruise, but got a little discouraged by some travelers here. Is Sapa worth the drive? i would stay a night there.

Still planning on Vietnam, Gabi? Sapa is nine hours each way by train from Hanoi. You can also go by motorcycle. It takes ten hours. See http://wikitravel.org/en/Sapa

Yes WillJame,
either i go to hanoi (5 days , 4 nights) or choose bangkok + chiang rai (2 nights each place)

in addition to siem reap and koh phiphi.

whats ur opinion?

Gabi, if you had enough time to go to Halong Bay and spend a night on a junk, that would be fine, but previously, you just had a day trip from Hanoi, which is not worth it.

There is plenty to do in Hanoi itself - interesting walking (and ahopping) in the old quarter and around the lake, good food, the Ethnographic Museum, etc.

Choosing to go to Spa would basically take all of you Hanoi time. It's an overnight train.

thank you kathie.

this is what i'm thinking.
it will be busy... but i would like to see the most that i can... and then relax on the beach.

3 nights chiang rai and 2 nights siem reap, or the other way around?

Sep 26 NYC- Shanghai (meeting mom and sister)
Sep 27 Shanghai
Sep 29 Shanghai - Hanoi
Sep 30 hanoi
Oct 01 hanoi- Ha Long bay (night at the junk)
Oct 02 Ha Long bay - hanoi
Oct 03 hanoi - siem reap
Oct 04 siem reap
Oct 05 siem reap - bangkok - chiang rai
Oct 06 chiang rai
Oct 07 chiang rai
Oct 08 chiang rai - phuket - koh phiphi
Oct 09 koh phi phi
Oct 10 koh phi phi
Oct 11 koh phi phi
Oct 12 koh phi phi - phuket -bangkok
Oct 13 bangkok -NYC

You really need three nights both at the Anantara near Chiang Rai and in Siem Reap. Remember that three nights is just two full days. With two nights, you are only there one full day.

Any chance you can add a day or two your your trip?

Well, a person could do what you're proposing but in some respects it doesn't make sense. You're passing through Bangkok twice, but not taking time to stop and visit?
I've spent probably a week all-told in each of Hanoi and Bangkok. There's lots to say about both as places to visit. Given one or the other, probably most people on this forum would recommend Bangkok. Why are trying to squeeze in Hanoi but not Bangkok, or have I missed something?

I have been to both Hanoi and Bangkok and agree they are both wonderful. I still think it makes more sense to visit Bangkok given the limited time.

That being said, if you chose to go to Hanoi, I would still skip Halong as you will spend most of your vacation time either driving or flying. Why not soak up the wonderful atmosphere of Hanoi. We spent days just wandering the streets of the old quarter. There is plenty to see there. Also, remember that the heat is very oppressive and you will take things slower than you'd imagine.

I get it. Kathie, Will, dgunbug

So i' need to cut out destinations...

Maybe i just vut out chiang rai? Do u think i'm missing out much?
I would like to get some nature and more undeveloped places in my list..
Afraid w hanoi and bangkok will be just too much city...
Can i get this experience from Hanoi? a day in the green, seeing rice fields, local people.. Quiet

If you want time out in nature and undeveloped places, leave Chiang Rai in. You can take a day trip outside of Hanoi, but it isn't the same as staying somewhere out in the country. Also, you said you wanted to interact with elephants - The Anantara at the Golden Triangle will give you that opportunity. Take a look at the Ananrara and see if it is in your budget. If not, we can recommend other places in northern Thailand. I think, given what you are looking for, that you need to cut VN.

Fly from Shanghai to Bangkok, spend some time in northern Thailand, Bangkok and the islands. Logistically, it makes better sense and it gives you what you say you are looking for.

The last itinerary looks too busy even for me. But, I will look into the logistics of it. I would cut Chiang Rai or Hanoi. You really want at least 3 nights in Siem Reap.

Oct 3, looks like you have two options, according to Travelocity, too fly at an affordable price, $295, flying on Vietnam Airlines.

Depart Hanoi 9:50AM, stop in Luang Prabang, no plane change, arrive Siem Reap at 1:50PM
Depart Hanoi 5:10 PM, nonstop, arrive REP at 6:50 PM.

Oct 2 only has the 9:50 AM flight at that price and the nonstop apparently is not offered on that date. Thought you might go from Halong Bay to the airport that day, but no.

You won't want to get Siem Reap - Chiang Mai as those fares are over $400 and take 12 hours. Have to look at a ticket on Bangkok Air and another on Thai for that trip. Each of those tickets cost about $156. Say $316 for both and you would have to pad in some time for the connection. There are 3 options for departing Siem Reap and two connection options on Thai. Connection times between 1hr 40 minutes and over 7 hours.

Maybe 9:45 dep from REP, 2 hours 15 min connection, getting to Chiang Rai at 2:35. It's a five hour trip.

Maybe a different order would be better as far as airfare and travel times might be better: Hanoi, Chiang Rai, Siem Reap, and then Bangkok Air to Phuket.

Anantara in over $1000 a night.... is this their regular price?

for a real splurge i would pay max 500.
any other hotel that would provide similar experience?

Even at that time of the year? You might check some of the discount websites as well as the Anantara's own website. I understand it is now all-inclusive. The other place that offers a similar experience is the Four Seasons Tented Camp near Chiang Rai. It is probably twice the price.

Instead, you could go to Chiang Mai, stay outside the city and go to either the Elephant nature Park or the Thai Elephant Conservation Center near Lampang.

How about Luang Prabang, Laos for the elephant experience (plus monks in a charming, spiritual town with fabulous hotels)? The plane from Hanoi to SR stops there anyway. We tried to go there originally during our holiday but couldn't get a flight.

Wow - we wanted to get to luang prabang, but it was inconvenient to get to. What a great thought to combine the three destinations.

Luang Prabang is one of my favorite places (though I was there many years ago when it was a sleepy little temple town). If you can time it right, as mrwunrfl says, you can fly from Hanoi to Luang Prabang, then a few days later catch a flight to Siem Reap from LP, and then fly through Bangkok to your beach vacation. The problem, of course, is that these flights are not daily, but you might be able to juggle your schedule enough to make it work. This would be a very efficient use of your time and cuts down on the complicated logistics.

As I said to someone else, do your research on the elephant place outside of Luang Prabang, as I don't know how well they treat their animals.

In 2009 we went to Luang Prabang (4 nts), Siem Reap (6 nts), Phuket (5 nts) and Bangkok (4 nts,) using a Bangkok Air Discovery Airpass. It all worked out fine, and was everything we hoped for.
This kind of circuit is done pretty often, and Fodorites will be able to give advice.
We really loved Luang Prabang. It provides a kind of charm unmatched elsewhere.
By eliminating northern Thailand and Hanoi, and spending a minimum of 3 nights in each place, a similar three-country trip would certainly be do-able, and fulfill pretty well all of Gabi's vacation objectives.
The flight times are all short, though you have to choose the order carefully in order to get the best connections on Bangkok Air.

Meant to say you wouldn't want to get SR-CR on Travelocity (probably other sites, as they didn't show Bangkok Air options).

Hanoi - Luang Prabang would be easier to manage. You could go from Halong Bay to LP via that 6:50 PM flight, 1 hour, Vietnam Airlines operated by Lao Aviation. Or the 9:50 AM, 1 hr 25 min, op by Vietnam Ailines. About four hours door-to-door.

Next, LP to SR, 1 hour 55 min on the 1 a day nonstop. Then Bangkok Air nonstop SR to Phuket.

Hanoi-LP-SR-Phuket in three short nonstops vs 3 connections, Hanoi-x-SR-x-CR-x-Phuket. That is do-able.

I couldn't find nonstops for Shanghai to Hanoi, but there is one for Shanghai to Siem Reap.

Oh, just saw the post by WillJame. Bangkok Air is an optionn for Luang Prabang to Siem Reap. And that nonstop for Siem Reap to Phuket.

You are shortchanging Bangkok..spend the extra time there.

Agree that Bangkok is being shortchanged, but the connections work out nicely with luang probing. Since Bangkok deserves more time and can be paired with ayuthaya, suko Thai and northern Thailand on a separate trip, IMO Bangkok can be skipped this time. While I think the OP is shortchanging Vietnam (note I spent 3 1/2 weeks there alone), it sounds like this makes perfectly good sense if the connections work out.

Wow guys! So helpful!
It seams like north of thailand is loosing priority on my list...

So these seams to be the best options


Hanoi-LP- SR - Phuket.

Or

SR- Bangkok -phuket

Or

LP-SR-BKK-PHU

You have a tough decision to make as all the locations are incredible. You should really do a bit of research, look at pictures and see what you think might be more appealing for you for this trip. If it were me, I would forgo the beach portion of your trip and include Bangkok which is one of the most incredible cities. But perhaps that is because I live in Florida and have access to beaches all the time. Whatever you do, you will enjoy. Just be careful not to flit from one place to another, spending more time traveling than enjoying the sites.

I looooove beach, so that is a must.
And everyone agrees siem reap is a must.
Bangkok is on theway... So it seams right.
So if i have time to add one more, would be hanoi or luan prabang.

I prefer the less busy one.. With more ruralmor country experience,. Villages.. Not so city like.
If anyone wants to give me their opinion.. I'm once again very grateful...

My trip has changed so much from when instarted planning... Crazy! But happy to have heard so many opinions.

Well, Luang Prabang is moew rural (by far) than Hanoi. The problem is getting there.

MrW says there is a flight from Shanghai to Siem Reap, so fly to Siem Reap first. Some days, there is a flight from Siem Reap to Luang Prabang on Lao Air. If you can get that flight, then it's easy. From LP, fly to Bangkok for a few days, then on the the beach.

On your last posted itineray, you have nine days between Shanghai and the beach. So you could get three nights in each place. That isn't a lot of time, but it is do-able. You'll get a taste of each of those places.

Photos can help, as others have said. Here is a link to our photo site, which has photos of all of those places: www.marlandc.com

I see the flight from Shanghai to Siem Reap is just 3x per wk.
That's the same problem that wd arise if Gabi did Shanghai-BKK-LP-SR-PHU-BKK-NYC using a Discovery Airpass for 4 flights--LP to SR is just offered 3 or 4 times per week as well on Lao Air (included within the Airpass).
But the best use of the Pass wd be to spend time in BKK at the outset, and later fly directly from SR to PHU which wd count as one segment.
Bottom line: You have to juggle destinations and flights a bit to make these things work. Or be prepared to pay more and take, e.g., Vietnam Air one way from LP to SR.

WillJame
did you end up doing the elephant experience in tiger trails LP?

No, we didn't, but we considered it. For one thing we had another elephant experience lined up at LP that fell through. And, second, we had been to an elephant camp previously near Chiang Mai. And, for a third, there was something about Tiger Trails that made us a bit uncertain, but I forget whether it was mixed reviews or a recent change of management--something like that. In retrospect, we wish we had gone. Check it out and see if it gets good reviews today--that was three years ago.

Shanghai - Siem Reap isn't available on the 29th but is on the 28th but at a fare of $1022.

Took a look at Shanghai to LP and only saw 20+ hours travel time, connecting in Hanoi, overnight in Hanoi.

That result showed a nonstop from Shanghai to Hanoi that didnt show up when I put in PVG-HAN. There is a nonstop from Shanghai to Hanoi on Vietnam Airlines on the 29th. Assuming they are on the same time zone then the flight is two and a half hours.

I would go Shanghai-Hanoi-LP-SR-Phuket on the four nonstops if the price was right. Save Bangkok for another trip when I had more time to spend there with a sidetrip to Chiang Rai.

But the price might not be right: $681 for Shanghai to Hanoi. But Shanghai to Bangkok is over $800 for the nonstop.

Gabi, I think the flight connection might end up making the choice for you on where to go. Try to spend a minimum of three nights in all of your destinations. Less than that will give you no time to experience what you came so far for.

mrwunrfl, kayak.com shows nonstop flights from Shanghai to Bangkok on Sept 29 as low as $219 (Sri Lankan), and $520 (That Air), and $630 (Shanghai or China Eastern).

That is exactly it Kathie.
The flights will decide.
I have asked a travel agent to llok into all alternatives.
Def preference for all direct flights. Cut travel time..

I think there is a direct flight shanghai siem reap on OCT01.
China eastern

SR - LP on lao air

LP - BKK on bangkokr air.

This is how the initnery will look like.
Pls give any last advice... Booking all flights and hotel tonight!!! Hopefully!
So excited.
09/29 arrive in Shaghai
10/01 Shanghai- SR (4 nights in SR)
10/05 SR - LP. (4 night in LP)
10/09 LP - BK. (2 nights BKK)
10/11 BKK - koh phiphi (4 nights in Koh phiphi)
10/15 back to NY

Looks great! I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time!

Gabi, I think you've got it! You'll love this trip.

Gabi - it looks great. I can't wait for you to come back and report on your trip.

Envious!

booking hotels moment!! anybody ever stayed at Le palias Juliana in Luang prabang?
also, victoria Angkor in Siem reap
Royal orchid sheraton BKK
and in Koh phiphi
i lookd at Holiday inn, Zeavola and Village beach resort.
any votes?

I don't know the hotel in LP, all of the others are fine choices.

We loved the Victoria Angkor - stayed there several years ago, but some friends have just returned and were also very happy with the rooms, service and location. It's Vietnamese owned..has cool colonial vibe, interesting international crowd (many families), great pool, excellent bar, good food and great location - walking or tuk tuk distance to town on the same park as the Raffles. Only negative was the spa,pricey and no atmosphere. My husband found a massage in town for $2...part of the adventure.

my trip has just started! should i write a trip report? at shanghai at the moment.. tomorrow night flying to Siem Reap

Do write us a report, Gabi. Start a new thread and label it a trip report by checking the trip report box.