14 days Japan itinerary. First timers.

Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 06:15 AM
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14 days Japan itinerary. First timers.

Hi guys,

We are 2 couples in our mid 30's planning a 14 days Japan trip in The end of November. We like cities, nightlife, food and drink, village life and rustic towns, nature, mountains and any water bodies. We like running. Also most importantly local experiences. However with no disrespect, not too keen on temples.

I have been doing a bit of research and come up with this plan. Would love you thoughts and advice.

Friday Nov 17th. Arrive in Tokyo 7am

Nov 18. Tokyo

Nov 19. Tokyo

Nov 20. Train to Hakone. Sleep in hakone

Nov 21. Train to Takayama. Sleep in Takayama.

Nov 22. Takayama. Shinhotaka ropeway and Shirankawa-go. Sleep in Takayama.

Nov 23. Train to Kyoto.

Nov 24. Kyoto

Nov 25. Afternoon train to Osaka

Nov 26. Osaka. Hopefully we get into the Osaka marathon and get to run. Sleep in Osaka.

Nov 27. Train to Hiroshima. And trip to Miyajama. Sleep in Hiroshima.

Nov 28. Hiroshima.

Nov 29. Train to Yufuin. Sleep in Yufuin.

Nov 30. Train to Tokyo. Another night to explore in Tokyo.

Dec 1. 11 am flight out.

Is this doable or over ambitious. We are fairly active travellers and try to see a good amount in the given time. Alternatively we can cut a day in the start from Tokyo since we are coming back to Tokyo in the end and add that day somewhere else.

Also is Yufuin hyped up or is it really worth a trip or is there any alternate that we can try which is more easily accessible. Or is Nagasaki a better pick.

Appreciate all your responses. I'm still fairly overwhelmed by Japan so all advice and criticism welcomed.

Thanks.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 07:24 AM
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Yes, there are lots of options to Yufuin, but options for what interest? That is, why is it on your itin.

Yes, your itinerary is ambitious and doable. Is it desirable for all four of you?

Nov 22 might not be doable even with a rental car. Shinhotaka and S-go are in opposite directions from Takayama. Have you actually planned out that day, as far as driving times and time spent at the locations? Might be rushed. But could be a soft plan, where you end up spending more time than you expected at the first stop and thus drop the second one.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 07:39 AM
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After looking again, I would say it is overly ambitious. I think that might be why you are still fairly overwhelmed. Lots of places to visit, things to see and do, and you have probably already dropped some things because they wouldn't fit. You could make another go at that. What would you cut?
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Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 07:42 AM
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Or, maybe better, rank those stops by interest. I would assume that the marathon would be on top, but then what? What do you do if you don't get in the marathon?
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Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 09:09 AM
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If you haven’t already booked your flights, I would encourage you to fly “open jaw” – into Tokyo and out of Kansai or vice versa. If you MUST fly into and out of the same city, explore options for moving on to your “next” destination ASAP after arrival – you might be tired, but if so, you’ll be tired under any scenario. Moving on, if it works,will let you cut out one change of hotels. (As a rule, you want to be in your departure city at least one night before your departure flight, which is why I’m suggesting pushing on at the start.) It might not work for you, but it is something to consider.

Miyajima is, IME, particularly lovely after day-trippers leave, so you might want to spend a night there rather than in Hiroshima.

I trust you realize that Japanese temples and shrines are often most notable for their gardens?

If you haven’t already consulted it, you might want to look at japan-guide.com

Good luck!
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Old Apr 23rd, 2017, 08:59 PM
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You have eight different hotel stops in fourteen days. I would not call that overly ambitious, I would call that insane. Mrwunrfl makes a excellent point--the inertia is slowed down with four people, as someone always seems to want to stop for a snack, or do some shopping.

For a first trip, you should go to Kyoto and Tokyo, perhaps, and then you have the race in Osaka. So that's three stops already. I would personally only add one more stop, but five would be the maximum.

You mentioned Nagasaki, and I think it's a great city. Only half the city was destroyed by the A-bomb, so there remains some great history there. Also, you can skip Hiroshima that way, and see the peace museum in Nagasaki instead. Then perhaps, you take a train over to Fukuoka, and leave directly from there. There are connecting flights into Narita, so you don't have to change airports. As long as it's on the same ticket, you are protected, and you can do that on the same day. I also liked Fukuoka.

So I would suggest:

Tokyo
Kyoto
Osaka
Nagasaki
Fukuoka
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 12:16 AM
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Would definitely drop Yufuin. Of our 8 nights in Kyushu on or 2013 trip I would say Yufuin was the town we felt most meh about. There was a very tiny pretty area at one end, which was so crowded it was unpleasant. The rest of the town was very ordinary. We did like the way it was nestled in flat lands surrounded by mountains, and the land around was mostly farmland, so it was pretty to drive through. But if I were going to Kyushu, I'd recommend Kumamoto, Fukuoka/Hakata, and Karakawa Onsen ahead of Yufuin. None are worth visiting for a single night trip with so much travel time attached.

If Kyushu is calling you strongly, consider spending longer there, but I'd suggest at least 5 nights or more to make it worthwhile.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 06:21 AM
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Thanks mrwunrfl. And thanks again Kja, you had helped me on my croatia post last year as well.

I have realised that Yufuin would not be realistic in my plan. Here is a revised schedule:

Nov 17th. Arrive in Tokyo 7am

Nov 18. Tokyo

Nov 19. Tokyo

Nov 20. Tokyo Possible sidetrip to Nikko or Kamakura

Nov 21. Train to Hakone. Sleep in Hakone.

Nov 22. Takayama.

Nov 23. Takayama. Either Shinhotaka ropeway or Shirankawa-go or neither depending conditions.

Nov 24. Debating between night at Miyajiam or Okahida.

Nov 25. Train to Osaka

Nov 26. Osaka.

Nov 27. Kyoto

Nov 28. Kyoto

Nov 29. Kyoto - Possible night in Mt. Koya.

Nov 30. Kyoto and late train to Tokyo

Dec 1. 11 am flight out.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 06:33 AM
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Nov 20. Tokyo Possible sidetrip to Nikko or Kamakura
Nov 21. Train to Hakone. Sleep in Hakone.
Nov 22. Takayama.
Nov 23. Takayama. Either Shinhotaka ropeway or Shirankawa-go or neither depending conditions.
Nov 24. Debating between night at Miyajiam or Okahida.

This segment seems very rushed to me.

If you are making a side trip during the daytime on 20th, you presumably won't set off from Tokyo to Hakone until a bit later, meaning you won't have much time there that afternoon and evening. And you'll need to leave at a reasomable time to get to Takayama. So you'll have a few hours there the next day at best.

For Takayama, even if you leave Hakone at the start of the 21(making there little point in visiting Hakone) you won't have much time there, just the afternoon and evening, and perhaps a short period of time the next day, but not much if you want to go to Shirakawa-go or the ropeway. Personally, and it is purely just my personal opinion, I'd skip Hakone and give that 21st night to Takayama - you'll need 3 nights there if you want to also include Shirakawa-go etc.

For the 24th, I might move this one to after Osaka / before Kyoto. That way you can set off first thing in the morning to Hiroshima, spend a few hours there, go over to Miyajima for the afternoon and night, plus have some leisure time on the island the next day before heading onwards to Kyoto.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 06:42 AM
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Hi kavey. I was thinking a day trip on the 20th and get back to Tokyo at night.

Leave for hakone 21st morning and spend the entire day and night there.

Leave 22nd morning from hakone to Takayama and spend the day and the next there. Might add another day to Takayama or okuhida.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 06:46 AM
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Hi CaliforniaLady. Just saw your post now. Let me look into in and get back to you for more suggestions. Thanks.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 10:19 AM
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Yufuin - I was thinking Fukui when I asked why there. An obvious reason for Yufuin is as an onsen stop. I think it is good logistically that you dropped it, but now your only onsen opportunity is Hakone. I guess Spa World in Osaka would also be an option.

Nov 24 - I recommend not making the trip from Takayama to Miyajima to spend only one night in the area and moving on the next day. It is over 6 hours of travel. I did it in the opposite direction and did not like it. It means you squeeze your time in Takayama as you would want to leave there NLT 9AM. By "squeeze", I mean the plan applies schedule pressure. If your destination that day was Osaka, then you could leave at 9AM but you would have the option to linger, have lunch, see some more of Takayama before you have to leave.

You wrote Okahida, but I think you mean Okuhida, i.e. Okuhida Onsen, in the Hida region.

Okuhida fit very well with your other interests in the region. It can be combined with the Shinhotaka ropeway. And it restores the onsen opportunity that you scratched with Yufuin.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5940.html

That would make Nov 23rd easier. It would be Takayama with just one optional visit (Shirakawago) instead of two.

Extending your stay in the Hida region instead of traveling all the way to Miyajima makes a lot more sense, imo. I don't like suggesting to scratch Miyajima, but it doesn't fit the rest of the itin very well.

You could also look into visiting Kamikochi.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 10:27 AM
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Enjoying the fall colors, like the maples on Miyajima, is something to consider on a November trip. I think the 24th is too late, tho am not positive. It would be too late in the mountains around Takayama, but IIRC the trees were mostly evergreens so there was really not much color to have missed.
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 05:53 PM
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I’m glad you found my comments about Croatia helpful – thanks for letting me know!

I think Kavey and mrwunrfl make good points about your plans for Takayama. I tried to see it with just 1.5 days and regret that I didn't give it more time.

A night on Koyasan can be a wonderful experience, but I’m not sure the timing would work well to do so on the 29th. Be sure to check all the connection times on hyperdia before committing.
http://www.hyperdia.com/
Here’s some information about how to use hyperdia:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2323.html

And here's some info on koyo:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2014.html
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Old Apr 24th, 2017, 11:14 PM
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Thanks mrwunrfl. Can you please explain more about the fall colours. Are you saying there is not much of the fall colours happening in the Takayama area? Also do you expect we can see the fall colours in Kyoto and Osaka.

Option 1. Do you think it makes sense to drop Takayama entirely in favour of miyajima. So we would increase a day at hakone and head directly to miyajima via Hiroshima and spend 23rd and 24th night at miyajima or 23rd night at Hiroshima and 24th at miyajima.

Alternatively drop miyajima and add a day at okuhida instead.

Last alternative is drop the day trip to nikko/kamakura and move to Takayama from hakone on 21st and reach by 3pm and spend the day in Takayama. Spend the next day 22th in Takayama as well and head to hiroshima on 23rd. Sleep in Hiroshima on 23rd and head to miyajima on 24th. Sleep in miyajima and head to Osaka on 25th.

I'm really conflicted. Want to see as much as I can specially the J alps. But also want to experience the fall colours. All I have ever heard of miyajima are good things so I am confused. But I don't want to end up not able to enjoy these places due to schedule pressure.
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Old Apr 25th, 2017, 07:38 AM
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When will you know if you get spots in the marathon?

If you have sufficient lead time, then don't tie up two nights in Osaka - you can visit it in a day and have more time in Kyoto. If you like Osaka that much, you can get there in 25 minutes from Kyoto to Osaka station (shinkansen to Shin-Osaka, first train heading south to Osaka station) and can visit more than once. You don't even need to stay in Osaka for the marathon days - the Japanese trains run about as reliably as the atomic clock.
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Old Apr 25th, 2017, 11:05 AM
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>>Are you saying there is not much of the fall colours happening in the Takayama area?

Yes, that is what I am saying.

>>Also do you expect we can see the fall colours in Kyoto and Osaka.

I want to say that peak color in Kyoto is around the 18th. I think that is when I saw the peak in Kyoto. A week or so later, there were many fallen leaves in Kamakura but still colorful around the Daibutsu. You might do well in Kamakura on the 20th. But you should check the koyo season history and forecast.

I suggest planning to visit Meiji Jingu on the 19th or 18th. It might not be too late to see Shichi-go-san celebrants there. Maybe a Shinto wedding procession, esp. if the date is an auspicious one for Shinto.
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Old Apr 25th, 2017, 11:51 AM
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I see you got something from my first two posts. Thanks.

Your Option 1 makes sense. So do the two alternatives. IMHO, the last alternative is the least desirable. I notice that you didn't list an alternative that would shorten or drop Kyoto.

>>All I have ever heard of miyajima are good things so I am confused.

You hear good things for good reason. Itsukushima Shrine is a World Heritage site. It is beautiful. That you have now added Hiroshima, with Genbaku Dome (another WH site) and the Hiroshiam PP and museum, makes that excursion south worthwhile.

You also have more interest in the Hida region, beyond Takayama and Shirakawago, than most vistors do. Okuhida, the ropeway, and Kamikochi are not typical destinations for first-timers.

All your options are good ones now that you dropped the idea of a hit-and-run stop on Miyajima.

Staying in Osaka makes a lot of sense to me for your plan. If you did as suggested above, stay in Kyoto, then you would commute between Kyoto and Osaka on the JR Special Rapid trains directly. No changing at Shin Osaka.
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Old Apr 25th, 2017, 04:17 PM
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I provided a link to informaion on fall colors (koyo) in my last post upthread. For the best forecasts, I'd listen to mrwunrfl. JMO

It depends on your interests, but two nights on Miyajima would be a bit much for me. But a night there can be lovely. The only complaints I’ve ever read about Miyajima are from people who tried to make a day trip there during high season.

Unfortunately, you don’t have time to see everything and so are going to have to make some difficult decisions. Personally, I’d rather keep my ratio of time to see and experience places relative to my time in transit as high as possible. Rather than skimming the surface and spending time getting from place to place, I choose to skip some places entirely, even if I am sure I would enjoy them. I’m most likely to skip or skimp on places that have international airports, because those are the ones that I can most readily visit again. I’ve also realized that if I can return to a region, the LAST thing that I am likely to want to do is spend my time re-tracing all that extra travel time so that I can go back and finally see the things I skipped the first time. In fact, I might end up not returning specifically because it would mean wasting so much time going from place to place! YMMV.
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Old Apr 25th, 2017, 11:20 PM
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Thanks for your replies BigRuss, Kja, and mrwunrfl. Sorry Kja I didnt see your link on the autumn colors but saw it now. The link on how to use hyperdia was indeed very helpful.

Unfortunately we will know only by mid june on the marathon spots. So i plan to build in some flexibility there.

However with your advices I have made this revised plan:

Nov 17th. Arrive in Tokyo 7am. Tokyo Day.

Nov 18. Tokyo

Nov 19. Tokyo

Nov 20. Tokyo Possible sidetrip to Nikko or Kamakura

Nov 21. Train to Hakone. Sleep in Hakone.

Nov 22. Train to Kyoto. Expect to reach for lunch.

Nov 23. Kyoto

Nov 24. Kyoto

Nov 25. Afternoon train to Osaka

Nov 26. Osaka.

Nov 27. Osaka. Day trip to Nara

Nov 28. Hiroshima and Miyajima

Nov 29. Mt. Koya

Nov 30. Osaka. Last day for shopping.

Dec 1. 7.00 am Flight out of Osaka connecting at Narita to Mumbai.

So between Hakone and Kawaguchiko any preferences and how different is one from another. Also I read that nowadays that you cannot go near Owakudani at Hakone.

Also is the 27th, 28th and 29th doable?

Thanks!
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