Frankie

Due to my husband sudden health problem we have to cancel our Tuesday flight to Greece from Newark on Air France. I am trying to get through to Air France. After three hours of waiting for some knowledgable supervisor I gave up.

Anyone had experience with canceling your flights so close to the date of travel? We will be happy if we receive credit for future flights.
I need your suggestions how to get credit
Thanks

gloria

If you purchased travel insurance you can have the full cost refunded. If not, hopefully you purchased from a travel agent or the airline direct and you will be able to apply the cost, less a penalty toward a future trip. If you purchased a 'web only' fare you may be out of luck, unless you have insurance. Good luck

Vic

why are you waiting for a supervisor?

There are no web fares on Air France. You can change your reservation by paying a penalty.

If you didn't buy travel insurance you're smart. Commissions on travel insurance range between 25% ane 40% of the "premiums". Buying trip insurance in stupid.

Well, agents don't think it's stupid.

Gloria

I had tto cancel a trip to Australia in November when my husband had a heart attack. I had spent over 4000.00. I bought travel insurance for 300.00. I was refunded every penny but the cost of the insurance. My friend broke her leg in Rome and travel insurance got her home 1st class without any extra cost. You are stupid Vic. But I don't think you travel much. I think you just like to spout anti-agent advice in hopes that someone cares. What would you do if you had a heart attack on a safari? Of course, that would never happen? If you can't afford the insurance, you can't afford to travel as my friends at Qantas said.

Louise

Vic - I don't think you know what you are talking about. You can get trip insurance over the net and not go through an agent. Also, the costs are not that different than agents. Check it out. We have gotten back probably in the range of $30,000 from trips we have had to cancel and also different occurances while we have been on trips. And, this has been only 4 trips!! Wouldn't go anywhere without insurance.

Vic

You'll waste much money if you think of insurance as a lottery. Lucky me, I had my car stolen and I collected insurance. Bill Gates probably doesn't have collision insurance on his cars. Why? Because if you can be a self insurer you'll come out ahead in the long run. Car insurers pay out about 60% of the premiums that they earn. So insuring yourself, if you can afford it, is a great bet.

Travel "insurance" is crazy stuff.

Vic

You'll waste much money if you think of insurance as a lottery. Lucky me, I had my car stolen and I collected insurance. Bill Gates probably doesn't have insurance on his cars. Why? Because if you can be a self insurer you'll come out ahead in the long run. Car insurers pay out about 60% of the premiums that they earn. So insuring yourself, if you can afford it, is a great bet.

Travel "insurance" is crazy stuff. It's marketed by travel agents because its so profitable. Why is it so profitable, because the insurance companies pay out so little to the traveler.

Are you covered if?

Certainly not if you just decide that you don't want to go.

Certainly not if you get sick due to a pre-existing condition. That is, a condition that existed before you bought the insurance.

Certainly not if your medical insurance covers the costs. The travel insurance pays only after all your other coverage. Many have adequate coverage with their medical insurer when traveling overseas, you should check.

So what does travel insurance cover? Buffalo stampedes.

And, believe it or not, it covers your agents commission if you decide to cancel. Usually, the agent must refund his commission, but if you buy travel nsurance, the agent is "covered" by your insurance that you paid for.

No wonder, agents push the stuff.

Louise

Hello again, Vic - I was only referring to having to cancel a trip. There are companies now (as an example CSA) which will cover you for a pre-existing condition. Incidentally, we have purchased this on the net and been reimbursed three different times. I guess the older you get the more one needs the security. When we were younger we never worried about having to cancel a trip because of personal or family illness. I am at the point now that I am paranoid about having coverage.

gloria

I might trust Bill Gates advice but not yours. Yes- pre existing conditions are covered. Commissions to agents are not. Many policies are primary insurance not secondary, as you state.Most HMO's, Medicare etc coverage is not valid outside the US. I'm pleased you have as much money as Bill does. Why don't you spend some of it on educating yourself before you hand out bad advice for free. In case your wondering how I know this? I do work for an insurance company.

sam

Vic, Every post you make really say no more than 'I hate travel agents and all of you should too' I, for one, am tired of it. I like my agent, I buy travel insurance. I will do as I please and so no doubt will you. But please, stop the endless diatribe and go somewhere.

Vic

You travel agents out there are either stupid or liars or both.

Just think about it. Let's say that you're on death's door and you decide that you want to die on the French Riviera being attended to by some French doctors. Do you really believe that any insurance company legitimate or otherwise (and I consider those that sell travel insurance Otherwise) would not have a pre existing clause that would protect them from my cancer patient?

And agents do get protection for their commissions by many travel "insurance" companies.

And instead of just attacking me which I really don't mind. Why don't you tell us truthfully what kind of commissions these "insurance companies" pay. And I mean what they pay the agency, not the agents split. It's on the north side of 30% of the premium.

gloria

You prove Sam right. All insurance agents receive premiums from an insurance company. Those that sell car, life, medical and travel all receive payments. It's business for heavens sake. How do you know that a travel agents commission is protected. Our policies do not cover that. Why not start a thread on what a rip off car insurance is? Is anyone who questions your judgement and advice a 'travel agent'? I'm not but I am an agent. Am I a crook and liar too?

Vic

That's a profound thought that insurance companies pay commissions. Of course they pay commissions. I have no problem with agents receiving commissions, they're entitled to earn a living. That seems obvious.

I'm not wise enough to know why, but a perverse competitive process has raised the price of travel insurance. Instead of competition lowering premiums, the competition raises commissions and presumably the price of the "insurance".

My point is that the only event that it protects you against is inability to travel due to a condition that was not pre existing. It's not like the criminal law, you're guilty until you prove your innocense.

A friend of mine, a young dentist, wanted a Corvette but he was deterred by the cost of collision and theft insurance. I said, well you're making a good living. If the car was totaled or stolen and not recovered what would you do, assuming that the car was not insured? He said it might hurt, but that he would buy another one. That's the point, don't buy insurance that you don't need. If you can assume the risk, do it. It has little to do with travel agents other than the fact that their stupendous commissions make the thing even less desirable. Obviously, the thing will cost more if the company is required to pay those outrageous commissions.

Ask yourself the same question that my dentist friend thought over. If I can't go on the trip because I get sick can I afford the loss of the deposit or whatever the cost is? If the answer is yes, I can afford the loss, don't buy the insurance. That's true of life insurance, automobile insurance, all forms of insurance.

Richard

Vic is right. If you can afford to lose 100's or 1000's of dollars because you are sick or injured before or during a trip then there is no need to purchase travel insurance. He is incorrect about the pre-existing conditions clause though. Many companies do cover those if you buy tour insurance within one week of initial deposit. I know that because I have a pre-existing condition. I cannot afford to lose money though (wish I were so lucky) so I buy trip insurance. I did the research and found it costs the same no matter who you buy it from. Hopefully, I won't need it but once I did and the cost of insurance was far less than the medical costs it paid from a car accident in France. The extra 25,000 dollars in CDW came in handy too. I don't worry about who gets paid what as long as I and my family have the protection we need.

Vic

Wow collision damage waiver is really dumb. Typically, it costs more than $10 per day. That's equivalent to $4,000 a year for insurance that you already have.

If you use a Diners Club card, their insurance is primary coverage, that is, you just walk away. I was in Europe a couple of years ago and seriously damaged a Espace van. The cost of repairs including a charge for the vehicle being out of service for over $1,500. Diners paid it without any hassle.

Virtually all other credit cards provide secondary coverage. First you exhaust your own insurance then the card company pays.

In many states, but not all, you are covered when you rent a car if you have collusion insurance on your own car.

You really have to be dumb to pay CWD, there are so many ways of getting around it without costing you a cent.

Richard

The 25,000 CDW was included in the travel insurance. To purcahse it from the rental car company is indeed crazy. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that I am stupid, or that anyone who doesn't use a Diner's Club card is stupid. From now on, you may have the last word. To disagree with you only gives you more opportunities to show your superior knowledge and to discount the experiecnces of the rest of us. I will share my stories elsewhere.

Vic

Richard,

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. We agree, CDW is crazy stuff.

I don't talk about myself on this forum but let me say this.

I am a travel agent and I work by the hour like many blue collar workers.

I rebate all commissions including overrides to my clients. I work out of my garage to keep my expenses down.

I have no axe to grind. It's a relief. My clients and I decide what is best for them based on our collective experiences.

Travel insurance is a good example. If I kept the commissions on it, I would be tempted to recommend it. I could say, "Well it's not much and think of the protection." But since I must rebate the commission anyway, I just give my opinion, if a customer wants to buy it, great, it's his money.

I have never sold CWD, and I have never had anyone pay for damage to a rental car out of their pocket.

As far as air, I tell my clients to go to Orbitz, chose an itinerary and go the the website of the airline of your choice. See what they have to offer. These sites often provide bonus frequent flyer miles and other benefits. If they don't want to go through the hassle, kind of like cutting their own lawn, I'll go it for them for my regular hourly fee.

Other agents should try working by the hour, it's really liberating.

xxx

Hey Vic? How much do you charge an hour? And I always thought that only the car rental agencies sold the CDW(collision damage waiver) insurance? I used to be an agent a few years ago..when were you able to start selling that?

Vic

You're right I used the wrong term. I don't sell CDW in the sense that that I never receommend it. If the subject ever comes up and it almost never does since the people I work with are, by and large, sophisticated travlers, we go over their personal insurance and credit cards and virtually all my clients are covered in some way.

I also recommend against travel insurance and I have not sold much.

My fee is $200 per hour.

xxx

Hey Vic

For $200.00 per hour, what do I get other than your attitude and mouth