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Time to commit to a loyalty program; which airline?

Time to commit to a loyalty program; which airline?

Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:17 AM
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Time to commit to a loyalty program; which airline?

I'd appreciate some expert advice on airline loyalty programs.
My husband has recently changed jobs and his travel has increased exponentially so I've been given the job of researching the best program for him.

He's flying both domestically and internationally. He has FF numbers for lots of airlines and in the past has tended to pick and choose domestic flights based on shortest routes and convenient times. Tended to ignore miles except to use as upgrades for exit rows in coach but is now typically flying in business class overseas.

So, best airline/s program to choose? Majority of overseas flights are currently within Europe (over next 3 months London/ Denmark / Sweden/ Finland) and he already has status with Icelandair but maybe BA has better alliances?
Over the next 2-3 months he also has to book flights to China, Brazil, Australia plus lots of domestic travel. Home airport is Boston, Logan.

Our goal is to accumulate points that I can use to occasionally accompany him or to use for us to travel as a family.

We do not currently have an airline credit card. Time to get one?
We have a Hyatt card/ Chase and collect hotel points with Hyatt, SPG and Marriott.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:38 AM
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Well... from BOS, you have choices with all the alliances.

With Oneworld, you can take American or BA to Heathrow and connect from there to much of Denmark, Sweden, and Finland. In biz, BA is miles ahead of American. BA's facilities at Heathrow are fantastic - T5 is the best airport in Europe. While BA is the better airline, I'd consider accruing miles with AA, which has an excellent FF program. AA would be the obvious domestic choice.

For the other travel, Oneworld is competitive. You would be looking at AA to Brazil, Qantas to Australia, and AA, Cathay, or JAL to China (Cathay is the best product). Once JAL starts the nonstop to Tokyo, Oneworld might be the best option to Asia from Boston.

With Skyteam, you can fly Delta directly to London - I think the biz product is on par with BA, but not if you are on the wide side. Fewer frequencies though. To the other destinations, you can fly Delta and connect to KLM at Amsterdam, or fly Air France to Paris and connect onward from there. The biz product offered to Amsterdam and Paris is no as good as BA's or Delta's product to Heathrow, but they are decent. Delta is the best program for accrual with Skyteam, but it is not as good as AA's program. Delta has the best terminal facilities at BOS, and has good domestic coverage - I think Delta is better than AA for domestic flights.

Delta is the choice for Brazil. They also offer good coverage to China and flights operated by the 777 have a very nice product. Korean would be the other Skyteam option to Asia - Skyteam has China Eastern and China Southern too, but I would stick with Korean or Delta. Delta's product to Australia is competitive with Qantas, but with only one flight a day.

With Star Alliance, you can't get to London nonstop. The obvious choice for connections would be Lufthansa, via Frankfurt or Munich, or Swiss, via Zurich. The new Swiss product looks quite nice, while Lufthansa is a notch below. I think this is the least convenient option for the Europe trips.

Options to Asia are good, with a lot of choices. To Brazil, you are looking at Continental as your best choice. To Australia, United flies direct from the west coast. For FF accrual with Star Alliance, United is a good program, but you might also look at the Lufthansa program, which gives 200% miles for paid business class. High fuel surcharges with Lufthansa's program, though.

All in all, I'd lean toward either Skyteam or Oneworld. I like the BA product to Europe, so I would probably lean toward them, but Delta/Skyteam wouldn't be the end of the world, and would offer a better domestic experience. Delta would also have the edge in service to some destinations in China, as you can single connect via DTW to Beijing (not every day) and Shanghai. AA miles are quite a bit more valuable than Delta miles, at least right now.

So, my ranking would probably be Oneworld as #1, Skyteam as #1a, Star Alliance as #3, due to the lesser European options, and Icelandair as #275. Honestly, biz on Icelandair is a waste of money (I think it borders on fraud that they list it as business class in booking engines), and the lack of an alliance makes their miles near worthless.

As for the card. The Hyatt card is a good card, and doesn't carry foreign transaction fees, which is very nice. The SPG card is awesome for the flexibility of the SPG program, as well as the large roster of hotels, but the foreign transaction fee is a bummer. I like Marriott hotels, but their card lags, IMO. As for the airline cards, I'm not convinced they offer a lot of benefit to someone traveling in paid business class, but if you wanted to double-down on the miles, then all offer cards of various stripes.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 08:24 AM
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And now a second long response. Your cup runneth over...

Welcome to the asylum.

First, some suggestions for independent study:

http://www.flyertalk.com/
http://milepoint.com/
http://www.webflyer.com/
http://www.milemaven.com/

Next, some basics.

Most people join and focus on frequent flyer programs with two aims in mind (to varying degrees)

a. Earning elite status with a program in order to obtain improved service, such as upgrades, baggage allowance, expedited security, premium seat selection, lounge access, etc.; and

b. Accumulating miles/points to redeem for travel - for themselves or for others.

Most major airlines greatly enhance one's ability to achieve (b) once you've achieved (a) - i.e. once you attain (usually) mid-tier elite status, you earn bonus miles/points that have the effect of bumping your redeemable mileage totals rapidly - often a 100% bonus.

Elite status is only achieved through "butt-in-seat" (or BIS) travel - you won't earn elite status by melting your credit card, but you'll achieve redeemable miles. You'll see abbreviations like "EQM" - Elite Qualifying Miles - which are the ones the airlines use in determining elite status. Some airlines have other metrics, such as "Tier Points" - based on the combination of flight length and ticket class (economy, business, first) but aimed at achieving the same result - elite status goes to frequent flyers and not just mileage accumulators.

(There are a couple of exceptions to these rules. A handful of airlines grant lifetime elite status to flyers who've accumulated 1 million or more miles - through any means - but this is not especially relevant to most beginners.)

Next, a big key to making the most of your miles is to look at (a) where you fly, how often and in what class of service; and (b) what are the airline partnerships/alliances that work the best given those factors.

The partnership/alliance thing is crucial. Earning miles in Airline A's program can provide huge leverage when redeemed on Airline B's routes, provided A and B are partners. And note that while many/most big airlines are in one of three global marketing alliances - Oneworld, Star Alliance, Skyteam - most airlines have partnership arrangements with other airlines that aren't co-members of their alliances, even sometimes members of other alliances. So you can earn miles on American Airlines (Oneworld) that can be redeemed on, say, Air Tahiti - a subsidiary of Air France, one of the key members of Skyteam.

So where does this fit into your situation? Well, a couple of things. First, having numerous FF accounts doesn't especially help. For the purposes of attaining elite status (and hence bonus redeemable miles) your husband should pick an airline that flies where he needs to go, with minimal hassle. (And note that that might not mean shortest flights. The flight connection business - where to connect, how long does it take, etc. - can make a huge difference.) Instead, focus on an airline that has a good partnership/alliance profile, so that the miles earned can be expended more easily, or for a better flying experience, etc.

Looking at your husband's short-term travel plans (northern Europe plus Asia, South America, Australia) and a base in Boston, my first guess would be that Oneworld (American, British, Lan, Qantas, Cathay Pacific, Finnair and others) is likely to be the best fit. The various alliances all have their geographic strengths and weaknesses - Oneworld is weak in Africa but dominant in South America and Australia, Skyteam good for central Europe, terrible for Australia/NZ, Star great in SE Asia and North America, lousy in South America, etc.

American's FF program is the oldest and by most measurements the easiest in which to accumulate miles and achieve elite status. In your husband's case AA has a fast-track "challenge" program through which one can achieve elite status (Platinum - their middle tier, and one which earns 100% mileage bonuses) quickly, so the miles could start mounting up right away.

Flying from Boston, AA has reduced its domestic service rather dramatically in recent years, relying more on hubs in Chicago, New York, Dallas, Miami and Los Angeles, but right now BOS isn't anybody's hub, so there's not much in it on the domestic front. Decent service to Europe too, with AA, BA and Iberia nonstop flights to London, Paris, Madrid. With Oneworld BOS also has a lot of one-stop alternatives worldwide, including lots of options to South America and Asia, Australia and other points in Europe.

I did want to mention, given your description of his travel plans for the coming few months, that he/his employer might want to take a little time to research round-the-world tickets, in particular the Oneworld Explorer RTW product. With a little premeditation (or a lot) there might be some real benefits to looking at an RTW for his short-term needs, possibly one originating in Europe, which would allow not only the South America, Asia and Australia trips to be paid for in one ticket, but which also would allow for a significant amount of domestic travel within North America as part of the same ticket. Devil < > details of course, but worth a gander. http://www.oneworld.com/ow/air-trave...world-explorer

He might also look at a second carrier with which to accumulate miles when flights aren't available or convenient using his primary alliance. In his case I think you should look at Alaska Airlines, which, as an independent (non-alliance) carrier dances with pretty much everybody - AA, Delta, Air France/KLM, BA, Qantas, Icelandic, Lan… Alaska's mileage program is one of the best, and worth investigating in your family's context.

If you go with AA, then Citibank is their principal credit card ally - have a look for bonus sign-up schemes, which come along quite frequently. But also pay attention to the benefits of any existing credit card plans you're in now - in particular the options for transferring miles between programs. SPG is the one to look at most closely in this regard. Use the Webflyer and Flyertalk links above, both of which have a lot of terrific information on credit card offers as well as a huge store of hints on how to leverage miles and points out of everyday transactions.

Like I said above, welcome to the asylum. Be on the lookout for the signs of mileage mania - it can sneak up on you.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 09:40 AM
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Wow! My head is spinning but thank you both very much for the detailed answers and I could follow nearly all of it ( I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for the dizzying heights of EQM and tiers but I will work on it). I do sometimes read flyertalk but I need a crib sheet for all the acronyms.

Initial thoughts are I'm leaning towards Oneworld.
No major problems with AA over the years and we like BA plus the majority of my husband's travel is within Europe/ N. & S. America plus he expects to visit Australia/Asia 2-3 times each during the next year.

Alaska Airlines is now on my radar.

Gardyloo, My husband is very keen on all the perks you mention with elite status (apart from baggage allowance as he travels light). The RTW sounds very appealing but my husband often has to change travel plans at the last minute and he'll probably have to return to Boston frequently which I think won't work with a RTW but I'll check it out.

travelgourmet, my husband is on the tall side 6' 3" but not especially wide (just a bit wider than average in correlation with his height). I didn't have a clue that his girth might affect our airline choice significantly so thanks for bringing this to my attention.

By the way he started traveling Saga class on Icelandair when one particular professional body dictated that business class fares could only be expensed on flight durations longer than 8 hours (Boston to London direct is shorter than this but not when you travel via Iceland ). Somehow routing via Frankfurt seemed like cheating but via Reykjavik was OK!
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 01:48 PM
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I play the field with all the cards open them get all the bonuses and close them B4 the annual fee is charged.Have gotten like 500000 miles perhaps 8 free IC flights maybe 4 domesticflights.Lots of pros and cons for each.Currently I have

capitalone.com Venture had a matching mile special a few months ago I have almost 100000 miles with them.DOUBLE
MILES a Visa NO Foreign exchange fees a big plus use it
everywhere taken widely.Con takes more FF miles than some
others like AA

AA.com Business Visa 40000 miles to sign up no fees got them
used the card my wife also for 2 months booked our Paris Flights for 2 then closed the cards. $45 of tax each way.
Pro only 40000 miles to Europe Con miles expire no double miles.

Amex Open Business Card 75000K bonus for putting $2k on the card by Nov have already started that.Pros lots of bonus miles
up front no credit limit on my card can use Continental/United
or Delta not american Cons no double miles Amex not taken as
widely more foreign fees on some not all cards.

Have recently closed

BA.com Chase Card got 200000 FF bonus
with them my wife 200000 also we got over to Europe twice with them big con was we paid "fuel surcharges" of several hundred
each time making it not as great.

Continental 1 pass 40000 miles free SA flight 1 domestic canceled also Spirit.com MC free to SA only 10000 miles
500 each way off peak.Big cons not taken widely and no double
miles.

Delta Skymiles used them all most recently for a Suite at the
Bauervenezia.com 40000 miles per night but it was awesome now
closed.

I do not know why anyone would stick with just one when u
can play the field with awesome signup bonuses being where
most of the juice is but then I am a FF slut basically.

If I had to choose my one most uesful card to hold it
would be my Cap 1 Venture card due to the double miles
and NO FE fees saves me thousands annually and I can
dispute reverse any and all charges.

AA.com for airline card best value but use them or lose them.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 01:58 PM
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All of this assumes you will not carry a balance on your
card of any kind.Also remember that on all cards IF you
use an ATM it is treat as a CASH withdrawal so it accrues
a high interest rate from the get go probably the one major
negative of all the cards.

So IF you use an ATM abroad get on line pay it off right away

or accrue 1-2%/month interest until you do...

I do get the best Forex exchange rate and no fee from Cap 1

for the change just the interest charge...
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 02:19 PM
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BOS is my home airport. BA is a good choice, but I think Lufthansa deserves serious consideration. Travelgourmet mentioned it in passing, but you can build up miles in a hurry on Lufthansa when you fly in premium classes: 200% in business, 300% in first, and those are valid for discounted business/first. You reach the first elite tier at 35000 mi., and then add an extra 25% bonus. When you get to 100000 mi (which, with bonuses, would happen after 5 or 6 RTs), your husband becomes SEN, and that's where you come in: he gets 1 award trip per year where you fly for half the needed miles. Plus, he keeps his SEN status for 2 years.

Also, from BOS, the Lufthansa group (including SWISS) has 4 flights daily from April through October, which makes connection a lot easier.

Don
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 03:46 PM
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Don,
Thanks for your input but you've muddied the waters!

But .. I think DH, will rule out Lufthansa based on the via Frankfurt or Munich options... London is a frequent destination for work and vacation and flying via Germany would be bad for the morale (11 hours+) versus a direct flight on AA or BA.

My Dad used to fly Lufthansa in the 70's and I was never impressed with the naff airline trinkets he bestowed on me in lieu of gifts he'd forgotten or not had time to buy so although the rapid tier climbing and bonuses sound good I don't think I can bring myself to sign up as a FF.

qwovadis,
I will look into cc offers. We don't carry balances or use them at ATM's.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 12:29 AM
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I think Lufthansa deserves serious consideration. Travelgourmet mentioned it in passing, but you can build up miles in a hurry on Lufthansa when you fly in premium classes: 200% in business, 300% in first, and those are valid for discounted business/first. You reach the first elite tier at 35000 mi., and then add an extra 25% bonus.

You can earn a lot of miles with Lufthansa, but I think the gap largely disappears for elites that fly in either coach or biz. With only a 25% elite bonus, they lag the 100% bonus offered by most of the competition to mid-tier elites and up. Lufthansa also has high fuel surcharges on awards and their mileage requirements for redemption are merely average. I think Lufthansa is a better program for the infrequent flyer that flies in paid J or F, as opposed to the frequent flyer, who does as well or better with other programs.

Also, from BOS, the Lufthansa group (including SWISS) has 4 flights daily from April through October, which makes connection a lot easier.

That isn't really any more coverage than offered by Skyteam and Oneworld.

But .. I think DH, will rule out Lufthansa based on the via Frankfurt or Munich options... London is a frequent destination for work and vacation and flying via Germany would be bad for the morale (11 hours+) versus a direct flight on AA or BA.

I would also note that going via FRA (and especially MUC or ZRH) adds a decent amount of extra mileage to the Northern European destinations you mention. I fly CPH-BOS with some frequency and find that Lufthansa and Swiss simply offer sub-optimal routings. Both Frankfurt and Zurich also lag Amsterdam or Heathrow T5 as airport facilities (the food options are absolutely dire in FRA and absurdly overpriced in ZRH). I'd even choose connecting in Paris over Frankfurt and it would be a toss-up between Zurich and Paris. Lufthansa's business class lounges also lag the competition, especially the lounge in BOS, which is simply awful. Things improve when you can access the Senator lounges, but they still don't come close to the level of BA's T5 facilities.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 01:07 AM
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50,000 mile sign-up bonus for Chase Continental credit card ... up bonus ever on the Continental Mastercard. The offer is 50,000 miles ... worse, Continental and United miles ...
boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2011/01/26/50000

Just closed my AAdvantage card this is the new one I will get.
My wife will get this too.So 100000 miles just for the sign up.

I have had elite status off and some benefit in my travels just priority boarding lounge but for me the DOUBLE MILES
on EVERYTHING with www.capitalone.com Venture VISA allows me
to pile up the miles quicker than ANY other card use it for
ALL my transactions abroad over 100000 in 2-3 months.If your
DH is flying/traveling biz class a tonne he could rack 2X FF miles enough for free flights luxury stays everywhere at a double clip with that one.Do not think you can do that with any other card currently so might research carefully on that.

Always will keep one airline card whichever is most beneficial

Happy deciding!
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 07:24 AM
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Thanks for expanding travelgourmet. I'm convinced. DH does appreciate a decent business class lounge with good food (has to catch up on work in transit). We do like T5.

He's off to China in 2 weeks (not sure if he''l fly to Beijing direct from Portland, or if he'll have time to return to BOS).
Is there a Oneworld partner for flights within China
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 07:56 AM
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Is there a Oneworld partner for flights within China

Nope. This is a glaring hole in Oneworld's network.

Skyteam pretty much owns China, with China Southern and China Eastern (+ subsidiaries). Star Alliance has Air China.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 08:52 AM
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Ahh, I did find flights on Cathay Pacific for Beijing to Hong Kong when clicking on 'Oneworld' on Kayak. Premium prices though!

More flights to Shenzhen and Shi Jiazhuang to look into but I guess there's no one perfect network that will cover everywhere.
I'll probably continue to get some free magazine subscriptions with the stray points gleaned from other networks!
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 09:12 AM
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Ahh, I did find flights on Cathay Pacific for Beijing to Hong Kong when clicking on 'Oneworld' on Kayak. Premium prices though!

Oh... Between Hong Kong and China, Cathay is absolutely a great choice. They just don't have any internal 'China' (Hong Kong is kind of a separate animal) flights.

More flights to Shenzhen and Shi Jiazhuang to look into but I guess there's no one perfect network that will cover everywhere.

Shenzhen is easily reached by ground or ferry transport from Hong Kong. Certainly, if I were flying from a Chinese city to Shenzhen, I'd look to fly into Shenzhen, but if heading their directly from the US, I would think it easier to simply fly into Hong Kong and take the ferry.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 09:27 AM
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Intra-mainland China is a gap in Oneworld's coverage to be sure; however between Cathay and Dragonair (both using HKG as a hub) most of the markets in China have Oneworld service. Plenty of service into China via JAL from Tokyo too.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 09:50 AM
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OK, thanks again!
Yes, I realise Hong Kong is 'different'... and it will be a useful hub for my husband's business meetings.

He has a BA flight booked (BOS>Beijing return) and will fly from there to HKG etc. He has no actual meetings in Beijing but his colleague picked this routing.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2011, 01:17 PM
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I will say only DELTA.
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Old Aug 8th, 2011, 05:14 AM
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Quovadis - Yes, I used to close my FF credit cards before I had to pay the annual fee also, but I found out that all I have to do is call them and tell them I want to cancel my card because I don't want to pay the annual fee, and they "pay it for me". So, I've kept the FF card (Citi Master Card for AA) with no annual fee for the past 3 years.

Found that you need to have more miles with Delta vs. AA to get to the same international cities.
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Old Aug 11th, 2011, 02:54 PM
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Delta used to be great but has gone WAY downhill over the past two years. If you look at the flyertalk Delta board you will see the rage. I personally would go with Oneworld.
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Old Aug 20th, 2011, 01:01 PM
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Hi Kenav,
We are just about to make such a call with our FF card. Glad to hear this has worked for you.
S
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