emd

I attended a reception in D.C. last night for All Nippon's new style of aircraft that will fly from JFK, San Fransisco, LAX, and Dulles to Narita starting in July.

I posted a report on it on the Asia board.

I am pasting it here in case anyone is interested.

Author: emd
Date: 06/12/2006, 09:54 pm
Tonight I attended a reception hosted by All Nippon Airlines at the Fairmont Hotel in Washington D.C. ANA is launching their new 777 plane configuration next month on the IAD to Narita route. Apparently this plane is already flying or will be flying shortly from from JFK, San Fransisco, and LAX to Narita also.

The reception was really nice. Great free nigiri sushi made to order(even toro!), all you could eat. And a big wooden sake tub, where attendants were using a wooden laddle to dish up the sake into square wooden cups that you could take home (but how does one drink out of a square cup??) Also other good food and free drinks.

In the middle of the banquet hall was a set up where you could sit in the new seats- premium economy, business Club ANA, and first class. I tried them all.

I'll say first that all of the seats still seem very narrow to me. I am size 14 and even the business and first class seats seemed claustrophobic on the width.

I have flown coach on ANA to Narita from IAD. My seat on that flight was incredibly uncomfortable, very little padding and hard and narrow. The premium ecomony seat that I tried out tonight seemed better padded. It had a footrest that extended (like business clsss seats on regular 777s, although the footrest didn't elevate as high). One problem for me is that the footrest didn't extend far enough. I am 5'9". I could not straighen my legs out, they were bent up at the knee, even though I asked the attendant to make sure I had extended the footrest as far as it would go. Every seat in economy plus (and on the entire plane) is equipped w/a universal powerport for your laptop. And if you are located in an aisle seat in premium economy then you will have a swing up digital TV screen; if you are in a middle premium economy seat then your TV screen will be on the seatback in front of you, as it is not in all economy ANA seats.

The business seating is nice, but again I could not fully streth out my legs in the reclining position. The seat does recline almost fully, but you are not completely flat, because your legs are not quite as high as your head. There is a plastic partition between you and the person seated next to you, so it is like you are in a semi-pod and have a bit of privacy. There are 60 stations of digital movies, music, videos and games on a 9 inch screen installed in the armrest. The business meal they had on display looked great- 4 courses.

First class is a completely separate seating compartment, like a litle separate pod. There are 8 first class seats on this plane. Your seat becomes a bed and fully reclines. In front of you at the far end of your pod is a table w/a 15 inch monitor for video and movies. Apparently there is some hi tech headset sound system (Euphony) that cuts out unwanted noise and has very vivid sound. While seated, you have another TV tray sized table in front of you for working and eating. You are provided a cozy down filled silk duvet.

I have experienced first class on United on a 777 that has the "pod" style seats. I think United's was much roomier and more comfortable than the ANA seat I sat and reclined in tonight. Again, the ANA first class seat was too narrow for me to feel really comfortable in, and the seat was somewhat hard in the mid-portion when it was reclined.

I had thought of using my United points to go business on ANA. But actually, I think I will use the points to go business on a United 777. The seats are wider and more comfortable on the international United 777s I fly from IAD to LAX.

Also, they went over the new South Wing at Narita terminal 1, which is where ANA and all Star Alliance carriers (I think that part is right) are located as of last week. ANA has 126 electronic check in kiosks in that new location (the largest number at any one airport in the world). and if you have an "edy" chip quipped ANA Mileage Club card you can just swipe it against the machine and your baording pass comes out- no other steps. Apparently they have shortened the conection times considerably in this new area of teminal 1, eg. for internatl arrivals going out on internatl departures, the time has been cut from 110 min before the move to 45 min after this move.

They did give away many prizes tonight- free premium economy tickets, free business tickets, free nights at the Farimont hotel. I didn't win anything...but it was a nice evening. It was nice to see people bowing and the sushi was just incredible. And the 2006 D.C. Cherry Blossom queen was there. When I asked for hamachi (my favorite) the sushi chef was sad that he was out, and he gave me a full plate of toro instead. What more can you ask for.

I also got some fun freebies, like a model of the ANA 777 which I gave to my son, and a little model of an ANA flight attendant in uniform, which went to my daughter.

One thing I learned tonight-- at the end of the evening the president of ANA's DC operations closed the reception with what is apparently a traditional closing gesture to wish you luck on your way- a repitition of claps (3-3-3-1) repeated 3 times.





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Author: rhkkmk
Date: 06/12/2006, 11:48 pm
i hope you told them how uncomfortable you found the seats to be on your previous trip and that the new ones are not much better....



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Author: emd
Date: 06/13/2006, 05:38 am
Hi Bob. I did talk to two ANA reps who helped me w/the mechanics of the business and first class seats about how the seats were too short for me and that I felt they were too narrow. They didn't seem too interested in what I had to say, but then they were there to unveil the new seats and plane service- it is a done deal.

One other thing I did not mention. I am 5'9" and relatively long from my waist to my knees. The new ANA seats are not long enough in the seat for me. The seat stops about 3 inches before it gets to the bend in my knees. I had the same problem on the ANA coach seat that I had in April, and I thought the new ones might be longer in the seat, but they are not.

I get the sense that these seats are designed for Japanese people. I wonder if they tested them on average sized American people. I really do like their level of service on ANA; I found it several steps above the NWA service I got in 2005 regarding food service, beverage service, and the flight attendant's friendliness and attitude (and those cute perky uniforms). But seat comfort on a 13 hr flight is ultimately more important to me.



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Carrybean

That's interesting about the seats not being comfortable. They must have based it on Japanese passengers as you said.
Too bad you didn't win any free tix though.

mrwunrfl

Free sushi!!

Thanks for the report. You are right about the *A carriers having recently been co-located. That is the current news at www.star-alliance.com

That must be the same configuration as is currently in use from LAX, JFK, SFO, which are more popular. NRT-IAD used to have the "Full Flat Seat" but sounds like it is now the "New First Class Seat". Both of the seats are shown here:
http://intsvc.aspwb.com/contents/Eng.../index2_e.html
At the bottom of the page you can check which seat options are available.
I do think that those shells are a bit confining and so was not disappointed with the Full Flat Seat.

http://intsvc.aspwb.com/GE/C/200607/...seat/seat.html

mrwunrfl

according to seatguru the NS Club ANA is a half inch wider than UA Biz class on 777, and the Prem Economy is also a half inch wider than E+

rkkwan

I believe all the other routes have gone to the new 773ERs. IAD is the last that's still on the 772ERs. I think they'd have heard enough comments from passengers on that route already.

emd

Wow, while sitting in those seats I never would have guesseed that they were wider, even a half inch. It may be the way the seats are stacked on the sides w/the plastic dividers? It certainly felt much more confining and more narrow than those business and coach seats on United (which I am very familiar with after flying 14 times btwn IAD and LAX on them this yr.)

mrwunrfl

Boeing delivered three planes to ANA today: a "next gen" 737-700, a 777-200ER, and a 777-300ER. I doubt that the new 773 is going to be on IAD-NRT.

emd

They had a reception for the new plane (is it a 773- they never referred to it as that) for the IAD-Narita route w/about 400 people there (mostly travel industry people and corporation big-wigs from what I coule tell), and they have it advertised on their website as starting on the IAD-Narita route in July.

http://www.anaskyweb.com/us/e/travel...r_3/index.html

It semms like marketing madness to say it is coming and have the big introduction and then not roll it out...but I guess we'll see what happens in July.

emd

oh, maybe the one they delivered today is going to be on the San Fran-Narita route, as that seems to be the next one starting up...I guess that is what you meant?

rkkwan

http://www.anaskyweb.com/us/e/travel..._s/us_nrt.html

IAD switching to 773 7/1, SFO switching 10/1.

mrwunrfl

Thanks for the link, emd, I entered my AMC number into the drawing.

I was speculating that the brand new plane might go to NRT-LHR or NRT-JFK and that the plane it replaced would go to IAD.

I flew ANA 001/002 (Dec 2004-Jan 2005) in first class. Before I booked it I called to find out if there was any plan to upgrade the seats on that route from the "Full Flat Seat" and the answer was no. The new style seats were in use on some routes.

At the time I did that I was also checking out the discussion at flyertalk. The rumor (hope) was that ANA was going to drop the IAD-NRT route (the hope being that UA would pick it up).

btw, I have no regrets in using the Full Flat Seat when the newer seat was available on other routes. Nothing could beat driving 12 miles to IAD, getting on a plane and getting off in Japan (enroute to Thailand). Even if the seat width difference was a half inch the other way, the ANA nonstop would be the way to go, for me, imo.

emd

You'll probably win the drawing, based on your good luck w/the horses.

I know, it is very convenient to fly IAD to Narita nonstop. That is why i did it in April. I'd probably do it in business, but not in economy again.

I still can't get over the 1/2 inch difference. I wish I could sit in an ANA E+ and a United E+ side by side, and also the biz seats and figure out why I feel so much more confined and uncomfortable in the ANA seats. I do think they are harder and more compact on the cushioning on ANA.

germantour

Not sure if anyone is on this thread anymore, but I'm planning a trip to Tokyo in January 2007 and am debating which airline to take from IAD, namely UA or ANA. Like emd, I am 5'9, so pitch and recline are a concern. Unfortunately I can only afford an economy class seat. I noticed on seatguru.com that ANA's economy seats are 16.5" wide, whereas UA's are 18". They also state that the pitch for ANA is 31, and UA is apparently the same. Does anyone know if the newer economy seats on ANA from IAD-NRT in economy are more comfortable than those on UA, even for taller people like me?

I have flown both airlines some time ago to Japan and far preferred ANA's service, but ultimately, as emd said, comfort is the most important on such a long haul flight.

Thanks!

rkkwan

ANA uses their new 777-300ER on that route. It's the same 9-abreast as on UA, so I won't worry about the width, unless you're a very "wide" person. Some newer airline seats have slightly wider armrests, which probably explain the number. 9-abreast on a 777 is plenty of room regardless.

Seat cushions on ANA's 773ER should slide forward when you recline, making them more comfortable. They also have a much more advanced Audio-Video On Demand (AVOD).

In short, I'd choose ANA.

germantour

Thanks to emd for reposting the message from June; I'd seen this so it's what prompted my query about UA vs. ANA. ;-)

rkkwan: I'm about a size 10 so the seat width in theory shouldn't be a problem, but I was concerned when emd said the cushions weren't very comfy. I really would like to avoid being bolt upright in a hard seat for 12-14hrs! But from what you've said it sounds like ANA may be the way to go; maybe I can work with my agent on the seat selection and clarify what equipment she's booking me on.

mrwunrfl

I've been on both airlines to Japan in economy on 777. If I couldn't get into economy plus on United or the premium economy on ANA, then I would go with the new style ANA. You definitely won't be sitting bolt upright. Seatguru shows the recline angle for the economy seats.

germantour

Thanks for the recommendation, mrwunrfl; I think I'll stick with the new style ANA in economy. I'll be flying to Japan again in the summer but with my family; perhaps by then I'll have enough UA miles to get to Premier, but then we all probably wouldn't be seated in Economy +.

Incidentally, what do people think about banking miles earned on ANA with them vs. UA? At the moment I have about 23K on UA, but zippo on ANA. However, since I'll be traveling in the summer again and ANA has a family campaign underway through which we can combine our miles to put them toward a free ticket, I'm inclined to go with that. Then again, getting Premier status would be nice, as long as UA doesn't go bankrupt!

mrwunrfl

Seems like it might be a good idea to put the whole family on the ANA Mileage Club if you can combine the miles and you aren't doing much United flying next year or the year after. Are there fees involved with doing the ANA mileage transfers?

And that idea is most useful if your "we" is a family of 3 or more and not a couple.

Only hitch with that is the 23K that would be left in your Mileage Plus account. You could easily get (or buy) 2000 miles to get up to a free N.America coach award ticket.

IAD<->NRT is 13,500 so the two trips would be 27,000. That would give you Premier status (or *Alliance Silver status) from next summer, on your return from your Japan, thru Feb 2009. I don't think the *Silver will get you into E+ on United, but if you are flying UA the second half of 2007 or during 2008 then the Premier status would be good to have.

If there are two of you then your combined ANA MC mileage would be 54,000. That's just short of the 60,000 required for a coach ticket to Japan or North/South Asia. And you'd have the 23K in MP.

If the TWO of you didn't combine mileage then you would have 50,000 and the SO would have 27,000. Your 50K would get you to Europe, I think, or would get you two N.America coach tickets, and your SO would have enough for one award.

If there are three or more of you then you could put your miles into MP, get Premier, and have 50K miles. The others could combine miles.

There may be other permutations but I think that sums it up.

germantour

Thanks for your detailed response mrwunrfl. My family consists of DH and two 6 year old twins, so although they don't fly much (nor does DH), we could combine the mileage for our trips to Japan in the future, although I haven't checked to see if there is an expiration date on the miles. DH and I used ANA many years ago (pre-kids) but our miles expired before we could use them. However, now that the kids are of an age that we can take them to Japan more easily (i.e., without towing a ton of diapers and their carseats!), we'll probably try to go once a year or once every year if we can. So I've been thinking about starting the AMC account for that reason.

I looked at ANA"s family deal site but couldn't find any info about fees for transferring miles; all I could find was the note that the usual 1,000 mile registration "fee" for the signup to the plan is waived until March 2007. Does anyone know about the transfer fees?

mrwunrfl

I took a look at the ANA website and it looks like the only fee is the 1000 miles registration.

Almost forgot: if you fly ANA you will get only 70% of the mileage flown if you are flying on an APEX fare.


For United MP earning that is clearly explained here:
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,1182,00.html

For ANA MC earning, I think it says the same thing (see the "ANA [NH]" line in the International Mileage Accrual Rates table):
http://www.ana.co.jp/amc_e/guide/tam...le_int_hd.html

On United you would earn 100% of mileage for an economy APEX fare.

ANA does charge only 50,000 miles for an IAD-NRT award and currently have a 5000 mile discount offer. That reduced mileage amount doesn't make up for the reduced earning rate.

There is a double miles offer for United flights ORD-NRT good thru Jan 31 with Y,B,M,H,Q,V economy fares or first and biz class.