julies

We just had a delay that got us to our final destination five hours late. As I understand, this qualifies us for compensation under EU 261 since our originating flights were on Lufthansa.

Route was BLR (Bangalore) to FRA (Frankfurt) to ORD (O'Hare) to MSP. Tickets were booked on United's website. The BLR and FRA originating segments were on a Lufthansa codeshare, and we were on Lufthansa flights. These connected to a United flight out of ORD.

Our FRA to ORD flight was unable to get a gate at ORD, so we just barely missed our connecting flight out of ORD. All of United's flights to MSP were way overbooked, and there were no seats. We were on standby for two flights but couldn't get two seats on either of those flights. Finally, we got seats on a flight that got us into MSP almost five hours after we were scheduled to arrive.

Do I approach Lufthansa or United about compensation? Frankly, it is United I am fed up with since they provided absolutely no assistance whatsoever and did not even acknowledge that we had already flown eight thousand miles on two ten hour segments and were exhausted. They couldn't manage to get us the last three hundred miles conveniently. But, I also know that it is Lufthansa that is the airline covered under this regulation, and since they offered flights in tandem with United they should work together to assist passengers in situations like these.

Thanks.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

This is not the answer to your question because I don't know that one.

These situations are always frustrating, but United met its obligations to you. When you misconnect, you get put on the next flight that has available seats. That's different than the next flight. They aren't going to bump passengers on the next flight out to accommodate those who have been delayed. I think your anger with United is misplaced. They did all they could do.

julies

Jeff--

I never expected United to cancel booked passengers. My frustration with them lies in the fact that every single flight they had was overbooked. They operate such that if there is any sort of glitch there is no capacity to resolve problems, and passengers are basically screwed.

I know that there are many different reasons people are on stand-by lists, but it seems to me that people who have missed connections through no fault of their own should be put at the top of stand-by lists. That is not how United operates. Since we do not have Gold level status, we were further down on the list. And, once at one of the flights we were trying to get on even saw our position drop a slot down on the list as they added someone above our names. That, of course, was the flight that ended up having only one seat available for us because the other person got the seat while we were left to try for the next flight since they couldn't accommodate both of us on the same flight.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

Nobody misses a connection through their own fault, unless they stop to shop and lose track of the time. It's always weather or something that delays their incoming flight. The passenger is almost never at fault. In this case, the no-gate thing doesn't seem to be Lufthansa's fault. It happens.

Delays happen. They're no fun, especially when you came from the other side of the world. In the grand scheme of things, I bet everybody who posts here could tell you about a five-hour delay. Was this during the wave of bad weather two weeks ago? I was flying and I got to my destination 48 hours late. I could say to you, five hours? That's nothing. But I won't.

You question is about EU261 compensation. If you can get it, try it.

janisj

>>Our FRA to ORD flight was unable to get a gate at ORD, <<

Was that because of the blizzards/winter weather? If so the delay is weather related and you are likely SOL.

>>My frustration with them lies in the fact that every single flight they had was overbooked. They operate such that if there is any sort of glitch there is no capacity to resolve problems, and passengers are basically screwed.<<

Same on just about every airline.

>>I know that there are many different reasons people are on stand-by lists, but it seems to me that people who have missed connections through no fault of their own should be put at the top of stand-by lists. That is not how United operates. <<

AFAIK that isn't how <i>any</i> airliner operates, not just UA.

They got you there -- If it was during the big storms -- they probably deserve a medal, not a claim for compensation . If it wasn't due to weather then you might have a case.

(I've had weather related delays of 15+ hours - not counting actual cancelled flights.)

NoFlyZone

Delta does give top priority to IROPs passengers in economy. The only categories above such economy IROPs passengers are those confirmed in first/business class and certain company travelers.

And IROPs passengers in the middle of a trip (connecting) are prioritized over those on the first leg their trip.

See the Full Wiki at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...rity-list.html

julies

No it was not anything related to weather. It was just a typical glitch where everything snowballed.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

Try applying for compensation. I'd approach Lufthansa since theirs was the flight that delayed your connection. If they say no, they say no. I'll be interested to hear.

Kathie

I had the same thought, Jeff.

Yes, do contact Lufthansa as it was their late flight that tipped the dominos. And please let us know what happens.

kybourbon

>>>Our FRA to ORD flight was unable to get a gate at ORD, so we just barely missed our connecting flight out of ORD.<<<

You need to list the facts (which you have left off this thread). Dates, times, flight #'s, etc. We don't even know if you arrived ORD on time because you didn't state your expected arrival time and whether you made it. You've only said it was a ground problem getting a gate. Sounds as if Lufthansa got you there on time (they will base it on actual recorded departure/arrival times). You also didn't state what your scheduled connection time was in ORD. Just because you are unaware of any weather delay, doesn't mean one didn't exist (could have been simple as fog an hour earlier, thunderstorm that passed through, etc.).

If you post on Flyertalk, I suggest you post the facts (all of them), leave out all the anecdotes and emotions (they will tell you that). The people that post there will know the exact specifics of the flights as they have access to a lot of that info.

julies

Thanks for all the help. I will try FlyerTalk. I just didn't want to add all of the specifics here.

We actually touched down early in ORD but then sat on the tarmac for an hour waiting to get a gate. The captain made several announcements as we were sitting there about how passengers were now starting to worry about making their connections and requested that those passengers who weren't in a hurry let those people through who had flights shortly. Of course, this didn't happen and everyone got up all at once to get off.

The itinerary had a connection time of 1 hour 35 minutes in ORD. And, now having been through this mess I am realizing that it probably was inadequate since, in addition to all of the required immigration and customs formalities, we landed in Terminal 1 and had to take the train to Terminal 5.

travelgourmet

I believe you get no compensation for two reasons:

1) Airlines are not liable for air traffic/airport delays, and not having a gate available would likely mean they aren't liable.
2) Your ultimate delay for which you are trying to claim was on a flight operated by a non-EU carrier, entirely outside the EU.

Good luck, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

julies

travelgourmet--

I don't know either, but I guess we'll see.

As I understand it, the ruling reads that it is the late arrival at the final arrival destination on the booked ticket that triggers compensation. Our tickets were booked Bangalore to MSP (not Chicago). And, I don't know if since United and Lufthansa were working together on this itinerary and United was majorly at fault if that makes a difference. The reason we couldn't get a gate was because United has forgotten to remove an empty plane from the gate. We were on a 747, and there apparently are only three gates at O'Hare that can handle a large 747; none were available. This is another reason why I've said all along that United is majorly at fault. But, they did sell me a ticket on Lufthansa for our in-bound journey, and we got home late. So, as I said, we'll see.

kybourbon

>>>Thanks for all the help. I will try FlyerTalk. I just didn't want to add all of the specifics here.<<<<

I don't know why not. If you are going to add it to FT, it's no different than adding it here. The FTers will not be as tolerant with lack of facts as here, nor will they be tolerant of all the emotional details unnecessary to the claim. They will also tell you to leave all those things out of any complaint or request for compensation.

>>>>We actually touched down early in ORD but then sat on the tarmac for an hour waiting to get a gate<<<<

I don't believe a one hour delay on an international flight (although it sounds like less than one hour) qualifies. They might throw a few thousand ff miles at you though.

>>>The itinerary had a connection time of 1 hour 35 minutes in ORD.<<<

I never schedule less than two hours transit for arrival on an international flight. I'm sure the minimum legal connection time is less than that (you would have to check that with your airline for that particular airport), but in reality, most people allow more time when booking flights (especially at airports like ORD).

janisj

Don't know if there is anything you are due -- maybe/maybe not, but maybe it is just me, but a 5 hour delay getting home - I'd never even consider seeking any sort of compensation. If they'd throw me some miles -- would I turn it down? No. But I don't see how you were hurt that much??

But that is just a philosophical issue - not what you are <i>legally</i> due . . .

Cowboy1968

When I tried to get compensation in a much more clear-cut case, I went thru one of the commercial agencies that handle EU261claims. The airlines themselves will not help you to make a successful claim, they are not that stupid.

The downside of going thru an agency is that they take a substantial fee in case you get cash - eventually. Something in the vicinity of 20 pct.

The upsides are that the agency makes a free assessment first - if you can win this case (otherwise they won't take the case anyway). When they take the case, there are no extra costs - from the first contact with the airline (which usually results in nothing) all way up to possible litigation. This takes a lot of paperwork and stress out of the matter.

My "easy case" (EU carrier on a point-to-point intra EU flight, delay caused by technical issues) it took half a year and resulted in a 60% or so settlement with the airline (of which the agency took its share of 20%).

I will not advertise going thru any of these agencies, but I know for myself that I would probably not have had the nerves to handle it by myself.

Anyhow, some items in OP's case are easy to answer, others not:

1. EU carrier or not (LH/UA) is only relevant for flights TO the EU. For flights FROM the EU, any carrier falls under the regulation.
2. While changing planes from intl to domestic at ORD in just 1 1/2 hrs would also not be within my comfort zone, it is irrelevant for the case.
3. It gets a bit tricky, IMO, whether UA's fault to vacate the gate at ORD for OP's on-time arrival with LH can be seen as LH's fault (because you will "probably" need to file the claim against LH, the actual carrier for the FRA-ORD leg). But, as codeshare agreements among airlines like Star Alliance, have the purpose to virtually extent the participating carriers' networks by using the partners' flights as if they were their own, one could argue that this also extents the responsibilty and liability across the virtual super network.
But this will need some expert legal assessment and you usually don't find that on the web..

julies

kybourbon--It is not that I didn't want to add in all of the exact details of dates and flight numbers here. It is just that I thought all of those exact, specific details would bog people down. If anyone wants all of those, I'm more than happy to offer them.

janisj--Yes, we are all different. The reason I am contemplating pursuing this is that I feel that when I purchase an airline ticket I have a contract with the airline. They are obligated to get me where I want to be within the general timeframe they sold me a ticket for. What would they say to me if I showed up five hours late for a flight? Why should their obligation be any different? Plus, I do think that when one has already taken two ten hour flights (not counting the time spend waiting to check in and layovers) some consideration should be given to a paying passenger. Finally, I believe that too many passengers have just given up and mentally become so beaten down with the drudgery of flying that they have also just accepted the idea that they are completely at the airlines' mercy and do not stand up for their legal rights.

cowboy--Thanks for sharing your experience with your own claim. As is said previously, I believe that United is greatly at fault here. And, that is why it is a sticky situation. I was flying on a Lufthansa plane, but it is United that sold me the ticket, had the plane that obstructed the gate, and failed to get me on another reasonably-timed flight out of ORD. As you said, these alliances are supposed to create seamless traveling for passengers on the participating partners. They accept the benefits and profits that emerge from such a partnership. So, why should blame not also be the responsibility of an airline participating in such a partnership? Of course, I know as well as anyone that this is a philosophical/theoretical argument. An airline's legal department is quite likely to have a different interpretation.

jacketwatch

I just tried to register at FT. It seems impossible. I put in like 20 or more user names and all were in use??? Weird.,

Jeff_Costa_Rica

You do have a contract with an airline when you buy a ticket. Read it, and you'll see that it's written greatly in the airline's favor. They guarantee they will get you to your final destination. Nothing is promised about when that will happen. If that's going to be your argument, you don't have a leg to stand on. Lufthansa and United got you to your destination. They fulfilled their terms of the contract.

Cowboy1968

Jeff,

On the contrary, it is quite unclear and depends on the assessment of the failed connection in Chicago.

Otherwise, in the course of any air travel to Europe on EU carriers or any flights within the EU or leaving the EU on ANY carrier, airlines get penalized with monetary compensations for passengers in fixed amounts of euros for delays and cancellations unless caused by force majeure - according to the aforementioned regulation EU261.
These statutory rights void any contractual agreements between you and the airline which would put you in a less favorable position.