Is this for real or is it an advertisement? Or are you just trying to rub it in for those of us who have to choose between riding in coach or staying home? There is a certain arrogance and sense of entitlement in this posting that I find distasteful.

That certainly was not my intention. There has been a lot of talk on this forum about airlines that offer flat beds in business class. I think Swiss has an excellent setup for long-hall flights. I liked the way they showed me the food options before I made my selection.

Note that I did not mention the name of the airline in the title. If you find this posting distasteful, may I suggest that you find a private island with no internet access to live on.

Having flown biz class for the first time (to SE Asia) on United this spring, I'm happy to hear first-hand reports regarding the other airlines because I hope to do it again on future long-haul trips. FWIW, San Francisco-Seoul on United 747 biz was fantastic.

For one, I was quite pleased to read Wally's diminuative report on Swiss. Just the kind of information we look for here.

(except I believe almost all chicken is fed corn)

wally34949 is very definitely not an advertisment. Maybe not quite yet an institution, but often a refreshing and always an original voice in this forum.

Not all people who fly in the front end of airplanes are loaded with money; some have just learned how to play the game well.

And Wally, I very much agree with you that SWISS business class is one of the best out there, even with the Euro-size wine glasses.

<<<Not all people who fly in the front end of airplanes are loaded with money; some have just learned how to play the game well>>>

That would be me

And me.

Upgrade certificates, frequent flyer points, or discounted business class tickets. There are ways to do it.

Hi wally -

I'm glad to hear you had a good flight. My last flight on Swiss in Business Class was memorable because it was so awful - Zurich - LAX about two years ago.

The seats were impossible to sleep in, the entertainment system was awkward, my vegetarian meals were abysmal(rice, green beans, carrots and cooked spinach) and the service was aloof at best. Somehow it was all worse knowing we'd paid for it; no upgrade. I said 'never again' and so far, I haven't.

Wally, did you get the incredibly fabulous chocolate mousse for dessert??? To die for! I could have eaten several of them instead of the meal.

I like Swiss as well, but I'm usually in the back of the bus. Nice to get those upgrades whenever possible. I'm another one who is playing the game. Flying first class around the world right now, on 140,000 ff miles and about $80. On UA. Loving it. Will be flying LH first class (upper deck) to FRA on the way back from BKK to ORD.

Unfortunately frequest flyer programs in Australia are crap.... you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a free trip from Australia to USA. Unfortunately I have to pay to lie flat.

It will cost me 288,000 points for one ticket for Syd to LAX first class. So if I use my Visa card I will have to spend over $500,000 for ONE free ticket. Ridiculous.

Info from bank site;

1 point per $1 spent on purchases using your ANZ Frequent Flyer American Express® card, to maximise your points earning

1 point per $2 spent on purchases using your ANZ Frequent Flyer Visa card, with the convenience of 29 million locations worldwide

Is that on Qantas MissGreen? From what I understand, you have to pay to join their frequent flyer program, which I think is ridiculous.

FWIW, both Finnair and Delta use the same seats as Swiss on some of their planes.

Unfortunately frequest flyer programs in Australia are crap.... you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a free trip from Australia to USA.

Why not just use a US-based FF program?

Wally, did you get the incredibly fabulous chocolate mousse for dessert???

Would you believe I had a bowl of fruit instead.

I'd like to add that the Zurich to Miami flight doesn't leave Zurich until after 1:00 p.m. and arrives in Miami around 6:00 p.m., giving one plenty of time to connect in Zurich. Example, I took the 9:45 a.m. flight from Barcelona to Zurich. The Lufthuansa flight leaves earlier for Miami, which means one often needs to fly to Frankfurt the night before.

Not my fav not great experiences

for me in the past though not recently

on new planes with new seats should be good though.

airlinequality.com has balanced like this one recently

sevice leaves something to be desired GREAT chocolate though.

Swiss International Air Lines customer review : 5 July 2011 by A Hoffmann (Germany)

Trip Rating : 5/10


PVG-ZRH in biz class. After reading all these excellent reviews my expectations were high. Unfortunately far to high. We were not greeted when boarding the aircraft nor were we addressed by name during the flight. Seeing that I hold a LH/Swiss Gold card that is rather disappointing as that detail can make such a big difference and gives every passenger that ´valued´ feeling. The new biz seat is the best business seat I have ever flown in. The ´lounge` position is wonderful and great to watch movies. Unfortunately the movie selection is so poor that - a total of 12/13 movies of very poor quality - one doesn't know which movie to watch. The food was mediocre at best but the worst by far was the attitude of the flight attendants. They simply couldn't care less. After another bad experience on Swiss last month when my flight from Zurich to Nuremberg was cancelled after several delays and the only alternative offered by Swiss was a 6-7 hrs bus ride I will try to avoid Swiss.

Spending $500,000 to get a roundtrip first class longhaul ticket that may costs $10,000 to purchase means you're getting a 2% rebate. That's actually better than average, when many cards' program only give you 1% back.

It is definitely NOT ridiculous.

Seeing that I hold a LH/Swiss Gold card

This terminology is wrong and makes me wonder if the poster of that review is as conversant as they claim.

Spending $500,000 to get a roundtrip first class longhaul ticket that may costs $10,000 to purchase means you're getting a 2% rebate. That's actually better than average, when many cards' program only give you 1% back.

It is definitely NOT ridiculous.

Rwwkan - if I paid cash for many things I would get a discount. I could save a lot of money paying cash and could save myself 10,000. Using a credit card is not the best course of action.

I am not in a FF program.... I just pay for what I get and shop around for the best possible prices by paying with whatever will give me the best price. I dont see any value for me in joining a US based FF program where I get points for travel as I use different airlines all the time. I am not too fussed about points.

"<<<Not all people who fly in the front end of airplanes are loaded with money; some have just learned how to play the game well>>>

That would be me "

Exactly right!

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

With thanks to spaarne. Airline seating explained: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/airplane_layout

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

MissGreen - You don't need to see any value in joining a US-based or any FF program. Up to you to find what's best for you. I'm just saying that getting a $10K rebate from $500K of credit card purchase is not ridiculous.

Can someone please tell me which FF program is best or best for Asia travel?

Mohan,
You may get an answer here, but a better bet would be to post it here also: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz-370/

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

thanks Orlando_Vic. I go to Flytalk sometime. I will brew a big pot of coffee and go there again. In the meantime, I need an intro 101 so I know what they are talking about.
I have been accumulating points on my gold amex, I used my points on hotels and shopping, probably not the most effective ways of using points and making my money work for me to the fullest capacity.

Rkkwan.. no proplem. I know you were just expression your opinion. I am not offended by what you said.

Can someone please tell me which FF program is best or best for Asia travel?

Where do you live? Where do you fly from and to? Do you have a preferred carrier? How much do you fly? What class of travel? How much annual spend can you put onto a credit card?

In general, the US carriers have the most generous frequent flyer programs, but your particular situation may steer you toward one or the other (or away from the US programs, entirely).

To be honest, the mileage game doesn't work for everyone. If you don't fly with some regularity, and/or you can't put a lot of money onto a credit card, then it can be a little difficult to get enough value from them to really make it worth your while.

Thanks travelgourmet. DH & i live in NYC. DH has family in S. E. Asia so we go there once in 2-3 years, for long haul we prefer Asian Airlines like Singapore, Japan and Korean for good service and decent food. If we could upgrade to first class would be nice, how?
We fly every year, we flew Delta economy to Stockholm in May 2011. Turkey and Greece are in our plans, looking at either Delta again or Turkish in April or May 2012. Annual spending in credit card is roughly about $12000 I think. At this point, we spread out in several credit card,
With FF miles, do I have to book tickets many many months in advance? Can I change dates? Are there many restrictions? Thanks in advance.

DH has family in S. E. Asia so we go there once in 2-3 years, for long haul we prefer Asian Airlines like Singapore, Japan and Korean for good service and decent food. If we could upgrade to first class would be nice, how?

For upgrades, your options are somewhat limited, and the cash cost can be high. They are not the value that they once were, though they hold some benefit, depending upon how you book travel. For practical purposes, you are largely limited to upgrading on the US carriers. To the extent the foreign carriers offer upgrades, they usually restrict the eligible fare classes to the most expensive ones, often meaning you could just pay for the business class ticket itself.

Among the US carriers, AA flies only as far as Tokyo, so you would have another long flight to SE Asia that you couldn't upgrade - the upgrade to Tokyo would cost an additional $700 on top of the ticket and the miles. Delta flies to Singapore and Bangkok (via Tokyo), but requires an M fare or higher, which will add as much as $2k to $3k to the cost of the ticket. United is a bit better, but the co-pay can still be as high as $1200 to upgrade.

You can get better value going to Europe. With AA miles, you can upgrade BA flights booked in premium economy to business. Ditto using Delta miles on Air France premium economy. For flights originating in the US, premium economy fares can sometimes be attractive. Short of these options, however, you are stuck with the same co-pay or minimum fare class situations as to Asia.

Booking a free business class or first class ticket can deliver tremendous value, but I have to ask if you will really accumulate enough miles to do this with any regularity. You seem to take maybe one long-haul flight each year and you have the $12k in spend. That would get you to roughly 20k miles earned in a given year. Let's assume you take a few other short-haul flights. If you concentrated all of those flights on one carrier or alliance, I'd estimate that you are only going to earn 30k miles per year. You are looking at 4+ years to earn a free business or first class ticket. You could goose the balance initially with a credit card bonus, but I don't think there are any 100k mile offers out there right now.

I'm just not seeing the value proposition there. You could get into mileage running, or scouring for promos that you can leverage, but do you really want to do that? I'd concentrate on getting the best price on each ticket and the best deal from my credit card and socking the cash away.

"At this point, we spread out in several credit card"

If you just use one credit card for all (and I mean all) your charges, you will build up your total and opportunities for premium class seats much faster. Diversification does you no good. I put every possible purchase on my AAdvantage card (groceries, postage, car insurance premiums, newspaper, even a new roof for my house at >$10K) Stay focused on just one airline (and their partners).

"With FF miles, do I have to book tickets many many months in advance? Can I change dates? "
I can only speak about American...and the 331-day "rule" has worked very well for me. Take a look: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-aadvantage/681036-331-days-award-tix-what-time-does-aa-load.html

Can you change dates? "Probably" not, because you would essentially be starting over from scratch. FF seats are severely limited, more so with premium class seats.

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

If you're only putting $12K on a credit card a year, you're not going to get much from that card in terms of miles enough to do anything. BUT, some airline-affliated cards can give you free baggage allowance, along with no or low fees, so it doesn't hurt to get one of those.

Since you live in NYC and fly to Europe and Asia, I want to suggest you go with UA/CO. But since you only fly once to Europe a year, and only once to Asia every 2-3, you simply don't fly enough to play the FF game. Seriously, if that's all you fly, just consider each trip on its own which airline offers the best price and itinerary for that trip.

With that much of flying and spending on credit cards, you won't get enough miles to earn status or to upgrade.

Thankyou all.
Sorry wally34949, I am hyjacking your post.
The $12k expenses is only with one card. Forgot to count other cards. Would $20k make a difference?
I use the Amex points for hotels mostly. Annual fee for the card is $160 for me and DH. I heard great things about the Starwood card, Thinking of getting that card too.
I do understand the concept of charging all expenses to one card. Many merchants in Europe, Asia and even NYC only take Visa and Master card and not Amex, that's why I need several cards.
We do have the Delta Platinum Amex that we used for buying Delta airline tix, we get one check-in bag for free when paying with that card. The card also offers one free companion tix which I forgot to use this year. There is an annual fee to that card, I think $95.

I heard great things about the Starwood card

It is a great card. For comparison to using miles, $20k in spending would give you enough points for 5 nights of cash and points ($60/night co-pay) at a category 4 hotel, and there are some nice hotels at that level.

Would $20k make a difference?

IMO, not with such limited flying. Sorry. Short of a small business owner that can churn a lot of money through a card, I think an airline credit card should be used as an adjunct to your flying. I think the SPG card (or a good, low-fee cash back card) would give you better return than trying to work the miles angle.

Wally, I like your response to sumrcr. I'm not sure why he or she would feel the need to post something so critical so early in his or her Fodor's career. Or ever, for that matter.

Thanks, pdx. I appreciate that.

In response to Wally 3449 and pdx: First of all, my apologies to Wally. I was sure that was a testimonial ad targeted for upscale flyers, like in Conde Nast Traveler. (To me, the reference to "corn-fed chicken" (as opposed to what? "manure-fed chicken"? in coach) seemed a little over-the-top. Sorry, but that was my impression. I just have never known anyone so enthusiastic about a flight or airline. But you really were that impressed by the new SIA planes and service, so I don't want to knock that. Maybe one day I will be that excited about long international flights instead of dreading them as a necessary evil.

Second: I do not post a lot, but I am not new to Fodor's. I have been a member for several years, but earlier this year I had to change my username and start over, with Fodor's permission, because it included part of my e-mail address.

A third point: References to "working the system" are not realistic. The only way to "work the system" is to have a job that requires employer-subsidized frequent travel, collecting air miles in the process, or having the time and money to make frequent flights and/or purchases with a high-interest, airline-affiliated credit card. I have a Delta AmEx card but use it sparingly.

"References to "working the system" are not realistic. The only way to "work the system" is to have a job that requires employer-subsidized frequent travel, collecting air miles in the process, or having the time and money to make frequent flights and/or purchases with a high-interest, airline-affiliated credit card. I have a Delta AmEx card but use it sparingly."

sumrcr, I think this is a common misconception. I have been retired 9 years (I retired early) and have only a personal, airline-affiliated credit card. Yet, we (Mrs. OV & I) have managed to fly in the front of the plane on international trips four times, once in F from SYD to MCO. I enjoyed every minute of it. Next year, we are going to Rio in business and returning home from Buenos Aires in F. I don't even know what the interest rate on my credit card is because I never carry a balance. It is always paid in full, each month. Nevertheless, everything is put on that card and I hardly use cash.

Now, as to "working the system", I have learned so much from online research, particularly on Flyertalk. Take a look here for other ways to earn miles without flying: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz-370/ And yes, I'll admit to churning a few credit cards too for the bonuses.

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

sumrcr, just as an example (and I do not travel on business), we got two Hyatt credit cards last year, and are staying 4 nights for free at the Grand Hyatt Kauai in October. Same trip - we got an Alaska Air credit card, which gave us 25,000 miles plus a $99 companion certificate -- not only did we use the companion certificate, thus lowering the cost of the flight by about $300, the airfare has since gone down and we've received $98 in credits from Alaska Air. Our credit score hasn't suffered one bit.

You don't need employer-subsidized travel, or spend a fortune, to make FF programs work. My parents are a good example. They only travel for leisure, 3-4 times a year, and doesn't put much money on credit cards. In fact, they don't even have an airline-affiliated card. Yet, because they fly enough each year to maintain a second elite level in one FF program, they get tonnes of miles and benefits. All you need is to pay to fly to get 50,000EQMs. With 100% bonus, that's 100,000 spendable miles in the account, with free domestic upgrade with available, free access to lounges while flying internationally, free bags, etc. And that's enough miles each year to pay for free tickets and/or upgrades.

Houston to Hong Kong is over 18,000EQMs for each roundtrip. Do two of those, a trip to Europe and a few other shorter flights, and that's 50K.

It's WAY MORE important to maintain elite levels than spending on credit cards to earn the spendable miles.

> It's WAY MORE important to maintain elite levels than spending on credit cards to earn the spendable miles.

Well, it depends on the specific FF program, as well. On Lufthansa, I receive only a 25% bonus for elite status, while some elite levels on American and United receive 100% bonuses. On the other hand, I get a 100% bonus for flying in business class and a 200% bonus for first, even for very deeply discounted business and first. (That's in addition to the 25% elite bonus.) Plus, elite membership is valid for two years. So, a single 34,000-mile RTW in F has (on 2 different occasions) gotten me over 100,000 miles plus 2 years Senator (* Alliance Gold) status.

I don't have an airline-affiliated card either, nor do I often travel for work. I still manage to earn 100k to 200k miles each year.

travelgourmet, tell us more!

Me too, travelgourmet. I maintain my 1K statues out of my own pocket, and most of it for pleasure.

All the imput has been very helpful.
sf7307, A question re:the Hyatt credit cards. Do you have to buy several nights full price to get the 2 free nights? I looked at Grand Hyatt in Istanbul, the cheapest room costs over 300 euro per night, litttle steep for me.

Just an update, I've been home for a week and I discovered that the red wine and french fry diet doesn't work so I've been at the gym burning 700-800 calories every day doing a one-hour bicycle spin class. I've only had two glasses of wine in a week! I just booked LAX to Singpore and Bali. $1,250 seemed like a good deal with Singapore and it should help me make 100K.

Where did you find that deal wally? I need a deal like that!

travelgourmet, tell us more!

Not much too it. I fly a lot.

A question re:the Hyatt credit cards. Do you have to buy several nights full price to get the 2 free nights?

Nope. You get two free reward nights (standard room only) with your first use of the card. In Istanbul, I'd suggest the Park Hyatt over the Grand Hyatt if using your free nights.

I found the deal on www.singaporeair.com. www.kayak.com said the ticket was $3000+. I'm on an Airbus A380 from LAX to Tokyo and on to Singapore. After three days I fly Silkair from Singapore to Bali. It is a Y Class ticket and had a checkmark on miles.

Confirming what travelgourmet said about the Hyatt credit card. In fact, DH and I each got a card, and got 4 consecutive free nights, no problem. (I do understand some people have had problems getting the free nights in, I think, Paris? It's supposed to be good for any Hyatt anytime, as long as a "standard" room is available. We actually shifted our dates a bit to get the room type we preferred -- garden view vs. mountain view)

Yes, the Hyatt deal is good for any Hyatt, any time, when a "standard" room is available. What might be confusing is the expression "standard room". That doesn't mean "any room"; rather, it means a specific type of room, as defined by the individual hotel. For the Park Hyatt Paris, it means "Classic Queen" room. The hotel is small and there are relatively few of those rooms, so scoring one can be a challenge.

Wally, just make sure your good deal is being booked at a high enough fare bucket to earn you some miles. With some of the star alliance partners, you have to book a higher fare than the cheapest ticket in order to earn miles/eqms.

There was a checkmark on miles and I have typed in my FF number with Continental.

The hyatt card sounds like a good deal. I am getting it.
Singaporeair is one of my favorite airlines but I wish they fly JFK - Singapore via west coast instead of Frankfurt (hate that airport, way too small for the flow of passangers).
The best way to book is to go directly to www.singaporeair.com. I registered and signed up for their email alerts. Got some good deals awhile ago.
wally34949, you got a good deal. If you have time you can hop all over Asia with Air Asia for very little. I did that. Was fun.
There is an Indonesian destination expert on the Asian Forum. Bali is lovely if you have not been. Enjoy!

Mohan, you have to use the hotel within a year of card issuance. Also, the card isn't free (I don't think). Full disclosure!

sf7307, paying the fee for the first year whatever it may be is not an issue. Then what?
I put the card aside and stop paying the annual fee the following year............no bad consequences?
Everytime I see a good deal, I do the same and my credit score doesn't get affected?

Mohan, I think that's right - I definitely have gotten cards that I have cancelled after the first year.

I think getting multiple cards can affect your credit score, but I don't know all the rules, and only know that we just refinanced our house, and my credit score was just fine, despite getting the Alaska card, Hyatt card, Delta Skymiles card and British Air card all this year.

Actually, getting credit cards can raise your FICO score. An important element of your credit score is the percentage of available credit that you're actually using. If you get additional cards, especially if they have good-sized credit lines, your ratio of credit-used to credit-available will go down, and your credit score will go up.

You cannot just put your card aside next year and not pay annual fees. The annual fees will be there and you will be responsible for it. To avoid the fees, you have to call to cancel the card or have the fee waived.