I like them, especially on the longer flights. Good food and beverages, service is good, etc.

In the last 4 yrs, we've flown them on 6 transatlantic flights and 5 intra European flights. We've had good experiences. Very decent food (and good quantities), friendly and efficient FAs, very punctual, free wine etc (if that matters to you), plenty of snacks in between meals and have snacks and drinks available in galley during flight. Only complaint is their entertainment - no IFE, but drop down screens. Although plenty of choices of music.

Thank you for the replies.
It's great to hear positive feedbacks on the airline.
Thanks again!

They are okay. Certainly not remotely in the class of Singapore Air (no US or European carrier is anywhere close, IMHO), but definitely okay.

Seating can be tight in coach, on many of their planes. I think they have largely completed their IFE rollout which addressed their previously lacking entertainment options.

Guess I'll be the lone dissenter here ... have only flown Lufthansa once (Frankfurt to San Francisco) and decided never again. Seats were incredibly cramped, and onboard service was almost non-existent.

I fly to Europe and domestically (USA) often - have not had any other travel experience that measures down to Lufthansa.

Definitely one of the better airlines I've ever flown. On time, good service, with typical German precision. I use them whenever I can.

If you rank airlines by stars (one to five), Singapore would get 5 stars, Lufthansa 4 stars and all American carriers 3 stars.

Two weeks ago, on the LH flight from Denver to Frankfurt, economy class had personal inflight entertainment with a selection of 100+ movies.

traveller1959 - I think you vastly overrate Lufthansa. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between most of the major European carriers and most of the major American carriers for long-haul coach. Oh, you get a couple of free drinks, but that is about it.

Speaking about coach - If Singapore is 5-star, then Lufthansa and most of the European and US airlines would be 2-1/2 stars. Maybe BA would inch up to 3-stars. Some Northwest planes might get there too. Air France on a good day might be 3-stars. Delta would be 3-stars if they improved the IFE. A KLM 747 or MD11 would probably drop down to 2-stars, along with US.

Lufthansa has coach IFE in all Airbus A340-600 and A330-300. Not yet in B747-400 and Airbus A340-300. However they have placed orders for 15 A380 and some other B747-800 which will replace the -400s. A380 will start operating within the end of this year. All new aircrafts will have individual IFE in coach. As regards the pitch and seat width they are exactly in the average of major airlines, see www.seatguru.com. I like their service and mostly fly with them as my favourite european airline.

With all the respect I see no comparison between Lufthansa and major US airlines. Last summer I flew Delta FIRST CLASS from Salt Lake City to San Francisco and ALL I got was a SOFT DRINK.

Fabio - You are comparing oranges to apples.

If you fly intra-Europe business class, all you get is a economy seat with a blocked middle seat! Why don't you complain about that?

at least that is not called first class !

You are right regarding the intra-european business class seats but as regards food and drink service within Europe, as you say, it is like comparing oranges to apples.

<<Honestly, I fail to see the difference between most of the major European carriers and most of the major American carriers for long-haul coach.>>

People who write reviews on here and on www.airlinequality.com seem to be able to see the difference.

I've flown Lufthansa many times both in Europe and internationally and I've found them to be very good. The level of service is very high and consistent.

I have a young family and they really do make an extra effort to help you out, this I certainly haven't experienced on US based airlines.

<<Fabio - You are comparing oranges to apples.>>

Why is this the most commonly used answer to any comparison between European and US airlines, it makes no sense at all, I got the same answer when I compared Virgin with US airways

Geordie

Geordie - Many of the most knowledgeable frequent flyers on this board and others do not pay attention to airlinequality.com.

Also, Fabio is comparing a UA domestic flight inside the US with LH. LH doesn't fly domestic flights inside the US, so any comparison is useless.

Just like I will never say European airlines are crappy just because they use economy seats for their "intra-Europe Business class".

Geordie

Thanks for your message. I also checked www.airlinequality.com.
I would say that airlne rating mostly depends on individual experiences, either positive or negative. Coach seats and pitch for longhaul flights receive negative reviews anywhere by almost any airline, european or american, if not considering premium economy on some airlines or seats next to the exit with extra leg room.
Lufthansa is very late for coach individual screens and p3t0t will not have them on B747-400 BOS-FRA and SIN-FRA-BOS. However, despite of this, it is still a great and safe airline.

As regards comparison between US and EU airlines, again, all depends on individual priorities: seats, food, drinks, punctuality etc..
Nevertheless www.airlinequality.com reports a 4 stars rating for AF BA LH and 3 stars for DL AA CO UA US.
Lufthansa, being based in Germany, has short intra-european flight, max 1,5 / 2 hours as average, while US carriers have long domestic flights, up to 5 hours and more. This might be a reason why US carriers have larger first class seats even on domestic routes while LH business class on short flights gives priority to the food and drink service.
On our DL 1 and half hour first class flight SLC-SFO I found a larger seat but a poor service.

<<Geordie - Many of the most knowledgeable frequent flyers on this board and others do not pay attention to airlinequality.com.>>

But some do

Author: rkkwan
Date: 11/17/2006, 09:15 pm
www.airlinequality.com though I hardly ever use it.

Author: AAFrequentFlyer
Date: 09/02/2006, 01:58 pm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/israir-airlines.htm

Author: AAFrequentFlyer
Date: 01/02/2006, 04:44 pm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/etihad.htm

Author: Gardyloo
Date: 02/27/2008, 04:46 pm
Welcome to the club. There's no "U" in Qantas; Air Tahiti Nui has a pretty decent reputation - see here: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/air_tahiti_nui.htm

<<Also, Fabio is comparing a UA domestic flight inside the US with LH. LH doesn't fly domestic flights inside the US, so any comparison is useless.>>

Of course its not, you can compare food, service, entertainment, seats etc regardless of which airspace your 30 minute/ 60 minute / 2 hour flight is taking

Geordie

Coach seats and pitch for longhaul flights receive negative reviews anywhere by almost any airline, european or american,

And this is my point. Even if we were to take airlinequality as the gospel (I don't think it very useful), the fact of the matter is that the bulk of the reviews of the coach cabin for Lufthansa, or any US or European are poor to middling, at best. The site is simply no help in differentiating between carriers in coach.

Take a look at some stats and quotes from the website:
- Mean comfort rating for LH coach = 3.5 out of 10.
- Comfort rating mode (most common ranking) = 1 out of 10.
- At least 6 out of 22 respondents made some version of the "worst flight/most uncomfortable seat ever" claim.
- 3 separate unfavorable comparisons to either Click (a Mexican budget carrier), a charter operator, and 3rd World Airlines.

Now, I am not saying that this makes LH a bad airline. But, it does not support claims that they are somehow a good airline and any better than your typical American or European airline.

As to the 3 vs 4-star debate... I don't put much stock in rankings that are completely opaque. The site provides neither the methodology nor the complete scores behind the various rankings. My guess, though, is that LH is lifted by their premium cabins. And, were the OP traveling in First (I am perhaps erroneously assuming they are flying in coach), then, by all means, Lufthansa is a top choice. Even in Business, Lufthansa might sneak into a preferred category.

But, when it comes to coach travel, I stand by my assertion that Lufthansa is no better (nor really any worse) than the average TATL carrier, European or American.

Well, the only opinion I care about is my own. Nothing personal. And that opinion is that the American carriers don't come close to Lufthansa. And yes, I'm an American, and not one of the Blame-America-First crowd, either.

My experiences on Lufthansa have been very predictable and professional. Most of the time, they are on schedule, they don't lose baggage, and their service is far better than what I'm accustomed to from the big US airlines, with the exception of Southwest.

They're wonderful... just came back from Europe on American after flying with Lufthansa last October. Making that comparison, which I realize isn't quite apples to apples, I'd deliberately fly with them whenever I could. The FA's are really friendly, and the food and beverage is far superior to any American carrier I've flown with over the pond.

Go with Lufthansa for sure.

travelgourmet

"""But, when it comes to coach travel, I stand by my assertion that Lufthansa is no better (nor really any worse) than the average TATL carrier, European or American."""

Having this point in common, the difference is made by the rest and posters here are an example

For airline evaluations, in general, we can consider many key points: some of them are measurable (number of destinations, average age of aircrafts, safety records, punctuality etc etc..), others not (individual preference, quality of service, own feeling, professionality of staff on board and on ground, kind attitude to customers etc.etc.... Here only individual experience counts and at the end the number of positive vs. negative customers reviews makes different ratings.

p3t0t

As alternative, have you considered the Singapore Airlines direct routing JFK-SIN-JFK ? Just add your short domestic flight to/from BOS with UA or US. The SQ flight will have a stop in Frankfurt.

If you travel frequently you find that quality of food, beverage, onboard entertainment etc. are not the main points.

A main point is punctuality. Another main point is how often the airline looses your bag and, even more important, how they perform in locating the bag and sending it to you.

In this regard (I am sorry to say that) American airlines have gotten very bad during the last years. There are some recent threads on this topic here on this forum. Especially travelling during X-mas time seem to turn into disaster each year.

BTW, airlinequality.com reflects my personal experiences perfectly.

traveller1959

actually airlines themselves never loose any bag but local airport handling staff do, which usually handle and mishandle bags of many different airlines. This is an outsourced job, never done by airline staff. The same is valid for the "baggage service" or "lost & found" staff who has to locate the bags. Many EU airports have just one office with their own staff having to handle all the lost bags files for all airlines flying there. Most of the time the main reason of loosing bags is therefore strictly linked to the local insufficient airport (from/to/through) infrastructure and poor/wrong/incomplete working procedures which vary a lot from airport to airport.
What airlines really loose is their image towards the complaining customers even though the "real" resposibility is somewhere else. So, in terms of losses of bags I would rate each single airport rather than the single airline.

There haven't been a baggage disaster with US airlines each Christmas. USAirways had a major one a couple years ago, but that was one incident.

Interesting, the most recent large scale, well publicized baggage disaster didn't involve a US airline. It was British Airways when they opened up LHR T5 last year.

<<Many EU airports have just one office with their own staff having to handle all the lost bags files for all airlines flying there. >>

And the award for the worst office goes to Servisair at Newcastle airport. A shambles, I could write a book about my experiences.

<<Take a look at some stats and quotes from the website>

Why not show comparisons to support your theory, take for example Northwest which is your preferred airline and as you say equal to any European airline.

Take the last 10 economy reviews or the first 10 or the one's in the middle, none of it supports what you say.

Look at the same criteria for Lufthansa, add up the individual review ratings, there's a huge difference

In addition (Out of 400 reviews, 94% of reviewers said that they would recommend flying with Lufthansa, a pretty huge endorsement)

We could look at American Airlines but that even makes grimmer reading. The only US airline that seems to be able to hold its head up, is Continental

I'll leave it at that, I'm sure the topic will surface again

Geordie

Another main point is how often the airline loses your bag

Then you shouldn't fly European airlines, period. I posted some numbers a couple of months back. From the available information, European airlines lose luggage at a rate of something like 3x that of US airlines. The best major European airline was worse than the worst US airline.

Lost luggage is an art form in Europe. BA got so bad that my company stopped booking people on BA. And this despite a corporate contract with BA.

Why not show comparisons to support your theory, take for example Northwest which is your preferred airline and as you say equal to any European airline.

Because neither NW nor Delta had enough comments about international planes to be remotely compelling. NW had 4 comments (with an average rating of 4.25) and no "worst flight ever" comments. Indeed, the only complaints seem to be about the seat selection process, rather than the seats themselves. Delta had 3 comments, with an average rating of 4.

<<Because neither NW nor Delta had enough comments about international planes to be remotely compelling. NW had 4 comments (with an average rating of 4.25) and no "worst flight ever" comments. Indeed, the only complaints seem to be about the seat selection process, rather than the seats themselves. Delta had 3 comments, with an average rating of 4.>>

I said I'd let it go but what you've just written it is load of .... It simply makes no sense, it begs the question are you actually looking at the reviews on airlinequality

Here's a small selection (5) only for flights between US and Europe from just the first page for Northwest. (Please note: a code like AMS = Ansterdam)

<<NORTHWEST AIRLINES review : 15 January 2009 : by Agnes Bach
Trip Rating : 2/10
MSP-AMS. Boarding was very slow, cabin crew not helpful or caring at all. One of the FAs made fun of a pax who did not speak English - such a rude way to treat an old man who obviously did not feel comfortable onboard. Food was horrible,…….>>

<<NORTHWEST AIRLINES review : 23 November 2008 : by Leo Enticknap
Trip Rating : 5/10
MAN-AMS-DTW-DCA and back in economy. Outward transatlantic flight was on KLM and return on NW; both A330s. All the flights were on time and connections (both me plus luggage) were made without any problems. The KLM cabin crew were courteous and professional in dealing with the person behind me who started complaining when I reclined my seat. The return transatlantic flight was a horrendous experience. The legroom was so small as to be virtually unbearable (much worse than on KLM), made even worse by a large metal object under the seat in front, and the flight attendants were rude and aggressive. When booking an NW/KLM codeshare trips, always try to get KLM flights if possible, especially for the long-haul segments. If you're over six feet tall, the lack of legroom in NW economy class will probably leave you in significant pain at the end of a long-haul flight unless you can get an exit row seat (which is now virtually impossible unless you're willing to pay extra).>>


<<NORTHWEST AIRLINES review : 12 November 2008 : by O Banderas
Trip Rating : 2/10
Another wretched experience 757 transatlantic. Poor seat comfort, very outdated entertainment, horrible food served by poorly informed crew, dirty toilets. Hope Delta invests in the 757's of NW they really need refurbishment inside. Always pick A330 for long haul.>>

<<NORTHWEST AIRLINES review : 6 November 2008 : by L Sorensen
Trip Rating : 2/10
I ran the new York Marathon this weekend. It was nothing compared to the 8hr flight from JFK to AMS with Northwest Airlines. Small, old seats with defects like not working tray tables and audio systems.>>

<<NORTHWEST AIRLINES review : 27 October 2008 : by Michael Veitch
Trip Rating : 4/10
BOS-AMS. B757 showing its age - cabin bland and non-descript. Leg room excellent however cabin feels a little cramped for a 6hr+ journey. Inflight entertainment a disaster - showed 2 (terrible) kids films on the 1990s style monitors hanging from the roof. Food fine but disapointed at no breakfast. Cabin crew varied from friendly to downright rude. Compared with the outbound journey (AMS-YYZ) on a KLM 777-200 the contrast couldn't have been more stark, and having booked both legs with KLM, they ought to be ensuring Northwest are offering a standard more in tune with their own.>>

Its exactly the same story for Delta.

Why you gave out incorrect information such as

<<the only complaints seem to be about the seat selection process,>>

I have no idea

Geordie

Well, although reviews and ratings speak themselves (SQ 5 stars, LH 4 stars) rkkwan and travelgourmet will never change their idea in favour of US vs. EU airlines and I think it makes no sense here now trying to convince them.
At least p3t0t has found answers to the first question.. !!

Where did I say I favor US airline over European ones?

Did I ever say any of the US airline is better than LH for US-Europe flight?

No. I'm just trying to strike some balance here to say that European airlines are not necessarily better than US ones. And in coach, service levels on all airlines are so similar anyways...

Fabio, they discredit any source that contradicts them but I'm yet to see them give any evidence to backup their opinions

<<And in coach, service levels on all airlines are so similar anyways...>>

I agree flying on US carriers are similar on the proviso that you bring the following:

Your ipod/dvd/laptop,

Your own drinks,(because it takes a
lifetime to get served),

Your own food (because everyone here agrees the food on US airlines is so bad)

This all ensures that you have no need to interact with the already unattentive FA, therefore making the level of service equal, no matter what airline you care to fly.

Geordie

It's funny. Some of you guys don't even know what my position is.

Anyways, I've said enough already in this thread. I have nothing to add about LH.

It simply makes no sense, it begs the question are you actually looking at the reviews on airlinequality

I was looking at the section prominently labeled "economy class seat reviews".

Regardless, none of the responses you quoted are any different from those for LH or any other carrier.

Your own drinks,(because it takes a
lifetime to get served),

Your own food (because everyone here agrees the food on US airlines is so bad)

Meaningless cliches and stereotypes. Within the past 12-18 months, I have flown KLM, Air France, SAS, Thai, Singapore, Lufthansa, Northwest, Delta, Continental, BA, and Swiss in long-haul coach. I've been told by SAS flight attendants in hour 1 of a 10+ hour flight to "get what I need, because they won't be around." I've been awoken by Air France flight attendants adjusting my seat without asking, because the person behind me didn't want me reclining. I've seen 4-6 hour gaps between seeing an FA on Lufthansa flights. I've been served completely inedible food on so many of the carriers that I lost count.

I fly a lot, and almost all of it is long-haul. I find no discernible difference between any of the US and European carriers in terms of service or catering quality - they are all barely adequate, at best. The Asian carriers are far better on food and service quality, but I never disputed that. Heck, I even noted that Lufthansa was "okay".

What I have a problem with is the silliness on this board, that there is some sort of huge difference between the various carriers' coach offerings. I can take it when people tell others to take the Asian carriers, or even BA maybe, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And I draw the line at decidedly mediocre carriers like Lufthansa, KLM, SAS, and Air France.

I never said that any of the US carriers are significantly better than the European carriers and am fully forthcoming with the faults of all the carriers. I am simply calling for an accurate representation of the European carriers, which is that of minimal service, lousy food, and tight seating. The divide between the European and US carriers is presented as so stark, that I think it becomes ridiculous.

Read this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=126&tid=35142421

The first two replies are significant.

Thank you all for your replies.

After reading them all, I now realized that I will not have the individual TV/screen on LH B747-400...?
That's really a bump

I usually fly SQ to Asia and am kinda spoiled (esp with its direct JFK-SIN route) w/ it.
However, this time, I used my KF points for the tix. So, they didn't give many options. Of course my preference would be SQ (JFK-SIN), but I'm on a waitlist on that one. I didn't know if I had good chances in getting it, and so I decided to redeem its star alliance (LH) option.

pt3t0t

I cross fingers for you that your SQ waitlist JFK-SIN will be confirmed.

If not, which month are you flying BOS-FRA ? Are you flying SQ FRA-SIN in connection on same day ? In the summer schedule LH has 3 daily flights to/from BOS:

LH423/422 BOS-FRA-BOS B747-400 no tv screen
LH421/420 BOS-FRA-BOS A330-300 WITH tv screen
LH425/424 BOS-MUC A340-300 no tv screen

So I suggest you calling the airline, check the connecting time with SQ FRA-SIN and, if suitable for you, ask to be booked on A330-300.


For the return flight from SIN you are on LH B747-400 without tv screens. There is another option:

LH791 SIN-MUC A340-600 with tv screen but then LH424 MUC-BOS has no tv screen. By the other side the SIN-MUC flight is longer than the MUC-BOS therefore I would prefer having the screen on the longer flight SIN-MUC.

Good luck !!

ooops... !! when I write no tv screen I mean no individual tv screen. sorry for maybe confusing you.

p3t0t

It seems now from www.seatguru.com that some of the total 28 LH A340-300 aircrafts have individual tv screens but I have no idea how to find out how many out of these 28 have indiv. screens and whether or not these few aircrafts with screens are operating the LH BOS-MUC-BOS route. It is a matter of luck !! Then the SIN-MUC-SIN A340-600s have all indiv. screens.

Travelgourmet my oh my, why can't you just accept that your are in a minority that believes service levels between US airlines and European are equal

Once again you've given your personal opinion, and nothing to back up your claims.

I've given links to over hundreds of indelpendent reviews from frequent flyers and you come back with 4 reviews and your 'personal experiences' to try to prove your point.

I've shown results of those reviews that 94% out of 400 reviewers recommend people fly with Lufthansa.

Oh and the other thing I've noticed is that you always seem to want the last word, so over to you

Geordie

Oh Geordie:

I accept I am in the minority. My contention is that the majority is wrong and selling the uninformed a bill of goods. I think the "majority" extrapolates from their domestic experience and assumes that US carriers are worse. I think that a handful of posters on this board are either alcoholics or idiots and overplay the free booze angle.

If you look at the hard facts then you will see that LH offers 31" of seat pitch. This represents a 20% reduction in legroom over a 32" carrier, such as DL,NW, or AA. They were also among the last carriers to add in-seat AVOD. I understand that some people are midgets, but I struggle to see how a slightly less lousy meal might tip the balance toward LH. I can't even begin to comprehend the posters that express a preference for KLM.

Believe it or not, I spend a lot of time thinking about these issues. I take at least 14 TATL segments in coach each year. If I honestly thought there was a difference,then I would share it. Excuse me if I dismiss the experiences if Joe E. Casual Traveler when he recommends LH.

<<I think the "majority" extrapolates from their domestic experience and assumes that US carriers are worse>>

Thats not possible as the reviews are not comparing services between European and US airlines. They are basing their reviews on a flight with an airline/airlines.

<<Excuse me if I dismiss the experiences if Joe E. Casual Traveler when he recommends LH>>

This is major assumption on your part and its flawed. How many casual flyers would be aware of airlinequality, let alone be bothered to write a review about their flight. Only people who have a keen interest in aviation would be bothered and as a result they probably fly a lot more than yourself.

<<If you look at the hard facts then you will see that LH offers 31" of seat pitch. This represents a 20% reduction in legroom over a 32" carrier, such as DL,NW, or AA.>>

Another misleading hard fact, it depends on which aircraft you're traveling on, Lufthansa's international routes have a combination of 32", the same as Delta, AA, similarly 31" is also found on Delta & AA (AA even have 30" on some planes).

The 20% extra legroom as a result of adding an extra inch to 31", I'll admit I'm puzzled by that bit of maths.

<<<<Believe it or not, I spend a lot of time thinking about these issues>>

I will actually put in a disclaimer here, I am used by Air France and their Skyteam partners to evaluate their products as I fly with them extensively, but more importantly I travel a lot with their competitors as I'm not married to a particular program. I am not paid money for this but I am rewarded in points.

<<Oh and the other thing I've noticed is that you always seem to want the last word, so over to you>>

Geordie

I think it is positive that a minority exists. It leaves more seats free for the majority !!

Cheers !!

God, I just booked two Business Class seats, IAD to MUC with return from geneva through Frankfort on LH....I hope NONE of you are on those flights and if you are you keep the rather nit-picky BS to yourselves!