EWR or YYZ for connections
Feb 2nd, 2012, 12:50 PM
#1
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EWR or YYZ for connections
Grandma who knows very little English is arriving from Israel and needs to connect to Chicago ORD. Her flight does not go direct to ORD since she'd rather not make the connection in Europe.
Which is a better, easier, friendlier airport for her to make the connection, EWR (Newark) or YYZ (Pearson, Toronto)? Same applies to her flight back home...
...Thanks.
Which is a better, easier, friendlier airport for her to make the connection, EWR (Newark) or YYZ (Pearson, Toronto)? Same applies to her flight back home...
...Thanks.
Feb 2nd, 2012, 01:01 PM
#2
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This is hard. I find Canadian airports particularly unfriendly, but EWR is not a piece of cake, either.
At EWR she'd definitely have to pick up and then re-check her bags. So she needs to understand that.
I have never done a connection in Canada. The deciding factor may be if she'd be able to be in transit in Canada and not have to go through both Canadian and U.S. customs there. (Most U.S.-bound flights, if not all, have immigration and customs in Canada rather than in the U.S., so she gets right off the plane in Chicago and into someone's waiting arms). Someone with more knowledge of the Canadian customs and immigration process should take this one.
If it were me, I'd go through Europe. Much easier to do the transit, and she's almost certainly not have to claim and re-check her bags. That's a major bonus.
At EWR she'd definitely have to pick up and then re-check her bags. So she needs to understand that.
I have never done a connection in Canada. The deciding factor may be if she'd be able to be in transit in Canada and not have to go through both Canadian and U.S. customs there. (Most U.S.-bound flights, if not all, have immigration and customs in Canada rather than in the U.S., so she gets right off the plane in Chicago and into someone's waiting arms). Someone with more knowledge of the Canadian customs and immigration process should take this one.
If it were me, I'd go through Europe. Much easier to do the transit, and she's almost certainly not have to claim and re-check her bags. That's a major bonus.
Feb 2nd, 2012, 03:17 PM
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The port of entry in both cases won't be ORD, but EWR or even Toronto, as much as I remember from my past experience. My thinking was Toronto being a smaller airport, so easier to handle... Whenever I used to travel to Israel I used to connect in Europe, but grandma doesn't wanna do it....
Feb 2nd, 2012, 06:25 PM
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If one's connecting int'l-US within YYZ's rebuilt Terminal 1, which is used by Air Canada and other Star Alliance airlines, one does not need to go through Canadian immigration and customs. Only US pre-clearance. Therefore, the process is basically no different from connecting at EWR or other US port of entry. One still need a generous amount for the connection - 2 hours minimum for non-US citizens/residents.
Feb 2nd, 2012, 08:31 PM
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I very much second (third? fourth?) the suggestion to connect through Europe: non-Schengen to non-Schengen should be easy, and I'd expect European airports to be somewhat more familiar with the concept that not everyone in the universe speaks English. Does Grandma speak anything besides Hebrew and a little English?
Between YYZ and EWR... hmm. Unlike Doug, I find Canadian airports to be friendlier, less crowded, and cleaner. But going through an additional country increases the messiness if anything goes wrong (e.g., severely delayed flight, missed connections, etc.) And YYZ is quite a large airport, too. As rkkwan noted, there should be a path to US preclearance without clearing Canadian immigration and customs. However, I've seen these closed during off-hours, but I don't remember which airports (YVR definitely, not sure about others). If you're thinking of YYZ and the inbound flight arrives at an odd hour, you may want to call and check the hours for this international-to-US path. If it's closed, it means clearing Canadian immigration, claiming bags, clearing Canadian customs, then re-checking bags, then clearing US immigration and customs.
Between YYZ and EWR... hmm. Unlike Doug, I find Canadian airports to be friendlier, less crowded, and cleaner. But going through an additional country increases the messiness if anything goes wrong (e.g., severely delayed flight, missed connections, etc.) And YYZ is quite a large airport, too. As rkkwan noted, there should be a path to US preclearance without clearing Canadian immigration and customs. However, I've seen these closed during off-hours, but I don't remember which airports (YVR definitely, not sure about others). If you're thinking of YYZ and the inbound flight arrives at an odd hour, you may want to call and check the hours for this international-to-US path. If it's closed, it means clearing Canadian immigration, claiming bags, clearing Canadian customs, then re-checking bags, then clearing US immigration and customs.
Feb 2nd, 2012, 09:29 PM
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According to the optional itinerary I have, the YYZ connection is in Terminal 3. El-Al is working with AA, so plenty of flights connecting to ORD (which is also true for EWR).
Grandma prefers to fly in a Hebrew-speaking airline.... El-Al is one, though Continental and Delta have some Hebrew-speaking FA in their Israeli-bound flights. She hopes for the crew to help her with the connection upon arrival, which can be tricky at times... One other option is, of course, JFK, but the one time she did it (against our instructions to her Israeli travel agent) via JFK it was SUCH a mess that we don't even consider it anymore.
Grandma prefers to fly in a Hebrew-speaking airline.... El-Al is one, though Continental and Delta have some Hebrew-speaking FA in their Israeli-bound flights. She hopes for the crew to help her with the connection upon arrival, which can be tricky at times... One other option is, of course, JFK, but the one time she did it (against our instructions to her Israeli travel agent) via JFK it was SUCH a mess that we don't even consider it anymore.
Feb 2nd, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Also, both LY flights arrive at both EWR and YYZ early morning, around 7am, so immigration and customs are suppose to be open. I once landed (not sure where anymore) from Israel almost an hour early, and we had to wait for them to open for business...
Feb 3rd, 2012, 04:04 AM
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<i>"... the YYZ connection is in Terminal 3."</i>
Here is a relevant page from the Toronto Pearson website. Take a look at the "Connecting to the US through Terminals 1 & 3":
http://www.torontopearson.com/Connecting.aspx#
It's a pretty safe assumption that her luggage will be tagged through to Chicago, so she will have to pick it up at the US connections belt and take it with her through US border control and security.
The key thing, however, is to spot the US connections signage after she deplanes from her LY flight, as most passengers will be streaming towards the Canadian customs hall.
I am more familiar with this in Terminal 1, but what she can expect to see will be a sign that diverts US-bound passengers to the US connections baggage belt and then, of course, US border clearance and security. If memory serves me correctly, there will be an security or border agent at the diversion point checking tickets/boarding passes to verify that the passenger has a US connection.
It works, but some might find it confusing. The most important thing will be for her to have her YYZ-ORD boarding pass in hand. If she feels uncertain, she could just show it to an airline rep, security agent, or boarder agent, who will steer her in the right direction.
Here is a relevant page from the Toronto Pearson website. Take a look at the "Connecting to the US through Terminals 1 & 3":
http://www.torontopearson.com/Connecting.aspx#
It's a pretty safe assumption that her luggage will be tagged through to Chicago, so she will have to pick it up at the US connections belt and take it with her through US border control and security.
The key thing, however, is to spot the US connections signage after she deplanes from her LY flight, as most passengers will be streaming towards the Canadian customs hall.
I am more familiar with this in Terminal 1, but what she can expect to see will be a sign that diverts US-bound passengers to the US connections baggage belt and then, of course, US border clearance and security. If memory serves me correctly, there will be an security or border agent at the diversion point checking tickets/boarding passes to verify that the passenger has a US connection.
It works, but some might find it confusing. The most important thing will be for her to have her YYZ-ORD boarding pass in hand. If she feels uncertain, she could just show it to an airline rep, security agent, or boarder agent, who will steer her in the right direction.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 04:53 AM
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Ah, and now I have even confused myself because I made the horrible mistake of thinking that Terminal 1 procedures would apply in terminal 2.
If you take a look here:
http://www.torontopearson.com/Connec...national.aspx#
you'll see that I gave you the wrong link. "Some International to U.S. connecting flights at Terminal 1 do not require passengers to clear CBSA before clearing U.S. CBP inspection." So it looks like you do have to clear Canadian Border Services at Terminal 3. Not very helpful. Nor am I, as it turns out.
If you take a look here:
http://www.torontopearson.com/Connec...national.aspx#
you'll see that I gave you the wrong link. "Some International to U.S. connecting flights at Terminal 1 do not require passengers to clear CBSA before clearing U.S. CBP inspection." So it looks like you do have to clear Canadian Border Services at Terminal 3. Not very helpful. Nor am I, as it turns out.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 05:10 AM
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The biggest difficulty at JFK is that EL Al flies into Terminal 4, and American flies out of Terminal 8, requiring your grandma to get on the Airtrain. I think that's a pretty big deal if she's easily overwhelmed by airports.
At EWR, though, your grandma would also have to change terminals if flying on EL Al and American.
So here's my suggestion. Choose EWR and have her fly Continental. that way she doesn't have to change terminals, and the process will be a easy as possible.
If she really wants to fly El Al, then I'd suggest requesting wheelchair assistance for her whether she really needs it or not. The attendant will help her change terminals and, though he/she will likely not speak Hebrew, it will be a big help for her, including help through the security line. This way it really won't matter whether she flies into EWR or JFK. I suspect that the connections to American will be easier through JFK, however.
At EWR, though, your grandma would also have to change terminals if flying on EL Al and American.
So here's my suggestion. Choose EWR and have her fly Continental. that way she doesn't have to change terminals, and the process will be a easy as possible.
If she really wants to fly El Al, then I'd suggest requesting wheelchair assistance for her whether she really needs it or not. The attendant will help her change terminals and, though he/she will likely not speak Hebrew, it will be a big help for her, including help through the security line. This way it really won't matter whether she flies into EWR or JFK. I suspect that the connections to American will be easier through JFK, however.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 06:48 AM
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JFK is out of the question.
El-Al's arrival to EWR is at Term. B, while the AA departure is at TA. So I think the idea of Continental, arriving and departing at the same terminal is helpful. the only thing we want to be careful about is choosing the late night flight from TLV (CO has 2 daily flights) so she arrives at EWR early morning (4:50am), not late afternoon which is when most intl. flights arrive and the lines are long....
...HOW EARLY IS IMMIGRATION/CUSTOMS OPEN AT EWR?
Yes, the wheelchair idea is a good one. She'd need it anyway...
...Thanks.
El-Al's arrival to EWR is at Term. B, while the AA departure is at TA. So I think the idea of Continental, arriving and departing at the same terminal is helpful. the only thing we want to be careful about is choosing the late night flight from TLV (CO has 2 daily flights) so she arrives at EWR early morning (4:50am), not late afternoon which is when most intl. flights arrive and the lines are long....
...HOW EARLY IS IMMIGRATION/CUSTOMS OPEN AT EWR?
Yes, the wheelchair idea is a good one. She'd need it anyway...
...Thanks.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 07:54 AM
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Just to be clear, don't count JFK out of the mix immediately just because she'd have to change terminals. The Airtrain there makes the connection at JFK just as easy as the connection at EWR (assuming she has to change terminals), and there are many many other AA flights to Chicago from JFK than there are from EWR in case she missed a connection.
But if she can go Continental all the way, that's the easiest solution of all.
But if she can go Continental all the way, that's the easiest solution of all.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 08:07 AM
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Thanks rkkwan. And no, no JFK, no no no, Doug... Beside her bad experience couple years ago there (she missed her connection to Miami because the JFK staff were acting stupid, she had to spend the night at a local hotel.... No English, no help, it was not a good experience), JFK doesn't have the best reputation as a connecting airport, or as an airport in general, from what I know...
Feb 3rd, 2012, 12:54 PM
#16
I understand that some older folks may still avoid Europe because of memories and "ghosts" but-- by any chance does grandma speak any Yiddish? Chances are she does. If so consider Swissair changing in Zurich. Yiddish has much in common with German, a language that Swiss flight attendants will be familiar with. DW had no trouble using Yiddish in Germany - most did not know what the language was but they were able to figure out what she was saying. One German lady asked her which part of Germany she was from because it was a new accent for her. We laugh about that.
Feb 3rd, 2012, 01:14 PM
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Thanks for trying basingstoke (Swiss is one of my favorite airlines), but alas, no, grandma (she's actually my mother in-law, hah) speaks Hebrew, Arabic and Farsi. I don't think she can trust Iran Air to take her from TLV to ORD.
...Maybe in another couple years?
...Maybe in another couple years?
Feb 3rd, 2012, 02:12 PM
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wherever you arrange the change, I wouldn't count on gate agents or anyone else making sure she gets to her connection. Obviously the wheelchair personnel will escort her but there's also horror stories of waiting for the wheelchair and gate agents leaving folks at the gate by themselves.
Feb 5th, 2012, 12:21 AM
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With the additional information, I switch my vote to EWR. If she's flying El Al, not only will all the staff speak Hebrew, but a lot of passengers will, too. My experience with Israelis suggests that some folks will adopt your mother-in-law and make sure she makes her connection! 
By eliminating going through Canada, it's very possible that e.g., flight crew or helpful passengers could ride in a cart with your mother-in-law all the way through immigration and customs and maybe even to her connecting gate. In YYZ, all the crew and most passengers will be entering Canada so won't be able to stay with her and the wheelchair attendant once she heads toward the US.
By eliminating going through Canada, it's very possible that e.g., flight crew or helpful passengers could ride in a cart with your mother-in-law all the way through immigration and customs and maybe even to her connecting gate. In YYZ, all the crew and most passengers will be entering Canada so won't be able to stay with her and the wheelchair attendant once she heads toward the US.
