I don't know about NW, but United has the zones too. The problem I see with ANY kind of boarding procedure is that people want to stand right in the front of the ticketing machine before their zone or row gets called instead of sitting and waiting their turn. And then the path gets blocked for those whose rows/zones have been called and they can't get through!! ARGH!

(I feel better now that I've vented)

Seriously, who cares how the aircraft is boarded, as long as it's fast and efficient.

The only people who care so much about boarding early are those who have a big roller-on and need to get the overhead space early. My suggestion to those people - check your bags.

As for seats being too small, you can always fly AA's (except their 757 and A300). Or pay full-fare coach on United to get Economy+. Or fly first/business. Why are big people deserve more room when I'm also a paying customer too? I like the extra legroom as well!

US Air just moved to this system. They tested for months and the Zone method of loading proved to be a quicker way to load the planes I was told.

As for exit row seating, why cram a preferred customer in a middle seat with no room when they can keep them more comfortable in a exit row. Economics talk here, they need to keep the 100k per year fliers happy rather than the occasional flier.

I seem to read a number of posts where someone suggests putting all the families with children in one part of the aircraft. You might think this sounds like a good idea, but:

Suppose you get assigned to the very first row next to that section?

If you have problems with a few kids nearby, how loud are you gonna complain about many kids nearby? I see no reason to create a "kiddy ghetto" aboard flights, but I do think families should board last, so the kids are not cooped up in seats any longer than necessary.

I have no idea why it matters when you board an aircraft if your seat is assigned - in fact, I wait until after initial rush - who needs to be on a plane longer than necessaary.

My husband, however, insists it makes a difference. He wants to make sure he has a "good place" to put his carry on in overhead bin.

LT, doesn't it make a fair amount of sense to board the rear of the plane first and then work up to the front -- like filling a stocking? However, that DOES always seems to lead to abuses -- like people sitting in the back putting their luggage in the front overheads AND taking all the pillows and blankets.

I've often wondered about the efficiency, possibly, of having window-seat people boarded first, then middle, then aisle. Just idle speculation -- it's always a cumbersome thing to funnel a crowd inclined to chaotic and Brownian motion into the highly ordered sardine can that's a plane nowadays.

Interesting replies!

Simpson: Glad you were able to vent, as well!

rkkwan: I agree -- boarding should be fast and efficient. But, from what I've seen, the zone system isn't any more efficient than the old-fashioned row system; as a matter of fact, I think it gives people more opportunity to stow their big honking rollaboards wherever they want . . . And yes, I understand first-class is an option, etc., but all I am saying is that if they are going to now parcel out coach seats based on FF status, and continue to decrease the spacing between seats, then just simply make all the other coach seats non-reclinable -- that's all I'm asking!

rb: What would I do if I were seated in the row in front of the "kiddie ghetto?" I'd make sure I got a seat assignment in advance that was far enough away from that section of the plane . . . That's the point! I also remember that on some of the older MD80s, some of the airlines had an additional bulkhead near the rear of the plane . . . Wouldn't that be a perfect section for families w/kids?!?

Cassandra: Interesting and creative idea! Whether or not it would make a difference is another story . . . And as far as people putting their stuff where they are not sitting, I've found no difference w/the zone system. IMO, it's just as bad, if not worse!

I actually don't think the window-seats-first idea would work any better than anything else, because people traveling together would get indignant if they couldn't board together, and all the other abuses wouldn't be changed.

I don't really see that "zone" seating is much different from the "now, rows 15-22 may board" system. Am I'm frankly sick of the class system that's now being fragmented into about 5 levels of privilege. All it does for me is turn me more decidedly away from airlines on which I have fewer or no miles -- and you'd think that as much as an airline wants to build loyalty, it's no longer enough -- they need to attract new passengers! It's also one of the reasons that the non-majors are getting more attractive every day -- I won't be ghetto-ized in the least desirable seats just because I'm an infrequent, discount-level passenger on that airline.

We flew Lufthansa last year and they boarded all the window seats first (by zones), then middle, then aisles. It did not appear to me to go any better or worse . . . it was just confusing to couples who thought they would/could board together.

Sandy (in Denton)

The zone would work if people paid attention to it.

There seems to be some BA'd BG'd with a huge carry on(?) with seats in the front of the economy area who stands in the aisle blocking the whole loading process as those with seats in the rear try to get past.

I thought the zones work better than boarding by rows. Now people that are in the late zones tend to wait longer before hovering at the gate.

When you are in row 15 and they are boarding 21 and higher, you don;'t really know when your group will be called. When you are in group 4 and they are boarding group 1, you know that it will be a while.


Keith

Please excuse my lack of knowledge -- what is zone seating? I haven't encountered it yet. How is it different than boarding row-by-row or groups of rows?

My rant with boarding the rear rows first are the people who stash their luggage in the bins above rows in the front of the plane as they pass by. If I'm seated in the front, where am I supposed to put my carry-on? Should the passengers in row 5 walk to the back and place their carry-on in the row 30 bins, once the row 30 passengers have filled up the row 5 bins? And how does this work when everyone tries to deplane? Will the row 30 passengers stay seated so the row 5 passengers can run back and retrieve their luggage before disembarking? IMHO this is a breach of unwritten airline etiquette. Isn't the whole idea of carry-on that its supposedly something you need nearby during the flight? If you don't need it, then check it. Why stash it over my head? (rhetorical question).

TC....Airline "etiquette" is a thing of the past.Nobody cares, unfortunately.Its basically a free for all, or maore accurately, a me-for-all.It's all about lost baggage,delayed baggage.Thats why people are reluctant to check luggage.It's all about our helter skelter world.Every traveller is the busiest traveller on the planet.Consideration for fellow travellers? NOT!Or should I ssay, those travellers are in the minority.

In zone seating, sections of the plane are designated 1, 2, 3... Instead off calling row numbers, they call the area number.

Regarding the trade off of space for carry on between the front in the back, I felt the trade off was obvious and that means that when I choose a seat I weight my desire for a place for my carry on versus my desire to be in the front of the plane. If I want to be guaranteed of space for my carry on, I can choose a seat in the back.

In my experience, the people in the back usually don't start putting bags in the overheads at the front until those in the back are full. Someone sitting in row 30 would rather have their luggage in their own overhead where they can watch and access it.

Keith

Keith, In my experience people haul so much stuff on board just because they don't want to check it -- o.k. so the airlines loose a few things - but so does the Post Office and you don't hand carry your mail. That aside, they stuff it in the front bins because they don't want to carry it to the back (its heavy or they have two or even three pieces) They want the stash it and then retrieve it on the way out - like a coatcheck. I've actually been on flights where passengers and/or flight attendents have pulled luggage out of the overheads and toss it on the floor forcing those from the back to retrieve it. I've heard passengers told, "if it won't fit in YOUR overhead, under YOUR seat, or on YOUR lap - check it!" It think that's fair.

Regarding zone seating: are the different zones spread out around the plane - not numerically sequential rows. For example, does Zone 1 include Rows 32, 16, 11, 5 etc. or Rows 35, 34, 33, 32 etc. It sounds quite confusing to me.

No, zone 1 is in the back, with zone 2 in front of it and do forth.

It is exactly the same as boarding by rows, except you know where your row is in the mix. When they are boarding zone 1, you know that zone 4 will be a while. When they board by rows, when they are boarding 21 and higher, you don't know if row 15 will be in the next group or later.

Keith

Actually, Zone 1 is premier, first class, etc. and then Zone 2, I believe, begins at the back of the plane. The higher the number of the zone, the further forward the rows/seating. Always seems to me the middle zones have fewer rows than the others, for who knows what reason.

TC is right, zone boarding is staggered. It's not the same as the old back-to-front with a different name. At least on Delta, zones 1-3 are for business, 1st class, and elite. Then zone 4 will be a chunk of the rear; zone 5 is a chunk a bit further up, but not immediately in front of zone 4; and they keep skipping around.

I can't explain it well, so I found this illustration (no, it's not from the National Enquirer; it's from the Cincinnati Enquirer): http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/01/24/biz_zoneboard24.html

Theoretically, this minimizes congestion. I guess I've been lucky, because boarding on the few zone-boarded flights I've taken has indeed gone smoothly.

And you know something, at LHR, there is none of this boarding by rows. When the flights is called, you get on.

And you know something, it takes no longer nor is there any more congestion than with the old fashioned back to front.

I've been through LHR 4 times since December and boarding by row was done on all flights. It is a function of the airline itself, not the airport, how it boards its planes. You may have travelled on an airline that just opens the floodgates.

Just have to add my two cents - I don't really care whether airlines board by rows or zones or whatever, but I REALLY hope they don't all take up the Southwest style of free for all boarding. In theory this would be fine if people who arrived/checked in first got on first, but what happens in my experience is that the most rude and obnoxious people (including many people I know!) just push their way to the front and sit down first, regardless of their boarding pass letter.

I have to question "audreyleigh99"'s "experience" in SW boarding. While some people may try to butt into a line, I've NEVER seen anyone get past the A-B-C boarding, other than the pre-boards. I agree with the O.P. that Southwest's policy DOES get people to the airport sooner, which is probably why their on-time performance is so good.

I find the SW model a hastle. I have to get to the airport early, stand in line waiting for the counter to open to get my pass and stand in the line at the gate to get near the front of my assigned group.

Otherwise, after all the poeple with children and others that need extra time, followed by those that stood forever to be in the front of their group, I end up with seating I don't like.

And if I have to change planes, I am SOL, because I can't pick up my pass in the second airport quick enough.

I live in a city with a SW hub, and I am glad they are here, since they get the prices down for all of us. But SW is low in my choices.

Keith

If you don't live in a SW hub city, you can be SOL on the second leg of any journey.

I don't mind the zone system, actually, although the last-minute accommodations to the super-privileged do seem excessive at times.

Anyone hear the Puzzler on Car Talk this week?

One can check-in online on SW, and get a boarding pass of a early "group". No need to wait in line for ever at the gate for every flight you take.

However, if there were more than one people in the itinerary, then you can't check-in online. No idea if they have fixed this major inefficiency or not.

>Anyone hear the Puzzler on Car Talk this week?

Yes. Took me about 5 minutes to reason it out. I had to turn the radio off so their voices wouldn't distract me.

The 2nd person to get on the plane has 98/99 chance of getting the right seat. The 3rd has 97/98 (regardless of how #2 did), the 4th has 96/97... the 100th has 1/2.

Keith

Under the traditional back to front boarding, there is only one area of intense stowing, starting at the back. (except for people sitting in the back putting their carryon in the front bin)

Using the newfangled staggered row group zone boarding that Delta and a few other airlines use, for example rows 10-20 and rows 40-50 both being in zone 3, we now have two (or three) areas of intense stowing. This theoretically speeds up boarding.

Using zone numbers, the airline can experiment with different systems and not tell anybody. Also the zone system is theoretically easier to understand than row systems.

Travel tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

"If I Ran The Zoo" er, airline, I would make it possible for passengers to purchase and thus ensure they can have things lke exit row seats and overhead bin space.

NO, they have not fixed the multi-person problem... we just did an office trip, and all 6 of us ended up in group C. Actually, we got a lot of aisles, just not together- on the way out. On the way back, they all including my husband had B and I got C "because the printer broke", and they wouldn't let me board with everyone else. Silly system. What if our 6 have been with kids (over age 5, so no pre-board).... it wouldn't have made sense to let us be together? Isn't that the point of booking it all together?

>>> they all including my husband got B [southwest's zone system] while I got C ...

They all including your husband could dilly dally and then all of you could then board together in the C group.

The way it was being done at Phoenix, we were told that A's were to all go together- even if they showed up as they were boarding B or C, they still were to go first.... basically stick with your letter group. Yes, all six of us could have probably found some way to board as "C", but there were not 6 seats together by the time C's were getting their turn. We found it hard enough to get 2 together with him a B and me a C. I guess either you love Southwest's boarding policy, or you hate it. It felt hectic to me, and the standard board-by-rows seems more relaxed.

Any way you get boarded, it is stinky!! We are herded on and pay dearly for the priveledge! I do not want to be seated in the kiddie section, and I have kids-good ones 10 and 12 years old. I don't think seats should recline either. I barely have enough room for my legs and I am only 5'6. I also think that if you have the rows 10-15 area, you are the last to board and therefore can not get any carry-ons stowed away. I do like having an assigned seat, but I agree that any way they board us, it is inconvenient to some.

At least I know now how on a recent flight one of my family members was 3 zones off from mine even though they were only two rows behind me.

To give credit where credit's due, Delta did a really nice job on a recent Europe trip my family took. However, I never figured out the zone system. In fact, on one leg of the trip our boarding passes didn't include our zone at all so we just had to wait until the "everybody can board now" announcement.

There is and there has never been any proof that any system speeds thing up...back to front sure as hell doesn't; especially since there are many people who hear the pre boarding annoucement and get on anyway...

You know what...first come first served will get people, if they so desire, to the gate quicker.

And I do resent that when I am stuck in a later boarding situation, some of these bums take up the overhead compartment space with luggage that should be checked.

And I further resent, and it has happened, I put all my carry ons, small stuff in the overhead and am told that I should store this stuff on the floor in front of me because some jerk wants to bring on a carry on as large as what I checked.

How dare they...

xyz- has it right.
All airlines try to get the back to front going but there are always those who don't or won't get the message. Frequently some 300 pounder with a duffle bag nearly as big as he who stops at the first or second row and then puts his bag in the wrong way.

At least as important to me is whether disembarking ("de-boarding" -- a horrible term) is controlled to permit those with tight connections to get off first or not.

I can't say any particular airline has been outstanding on this point, but nothing ruins my day by being trapped behind pokey people getting things out of overheads and putting on coats when I have 10 min. to change terminals.

It doesn't take a huge amount of effort on the FA's part to be very clear in urging that people without close connections should stay put until those who have to run can get out and on their way. You won't convince everyone, but it makes a big difference when people accommodate the request.

I have only heard flight attendents ask that folks wait a minute while those with tight connections get off, once or twice.

On a flight that is late, particularly into a hub, this makes so much sense!

Keith

cfc--

You have found one of my pet peeves,

You embark = get on;

You debark = get off

To answer your question, NWA uses the traditional row boarding.

Most or all of the airlines are doing zones, but what is weird with delta is that they have 9 zones! most have 4 or 5, I was zone 9, I was the last person!