Kathie

I've never bought a RTW ticket and would appreciate some info from those of you who have.

I have just retired and we are thinking about our trips for 2015. We's like to go to Europe in Sept/Oct (several options are vying for our attention, either a Paris (14 nights)/Amsterdam (5 nights) trip combo or an Italy trip (5 nights in Venice, three three-nights stays in smaller towns, 7 nights Rome). Then we'd like some time in SE Asia including at least in week in Bangkok and perhaps 5 nights in Hong Kong. November would be best for these destinations.

We would want to use Star Alliance (as I'm a million-miler) and we live in Seattle. While I'm aware that some places are better to buy RTW tickets than others, I'm not sure if it would make sense for us to fly somewhere to start our RTW trip. We would want Biz class tickets.

Any tips from those of you who use RTW tickets regularly would be much appreciated.

Don Topaz, are you out there?

janisj

Gardyloo is THE expert re RTW tickets on here. He is wonderful about posting detailed options/pitfalls. A few others will also likely post useful advice, but Gardyloo is our guru - hope he sees your thread.

In the past he has explained the huge savings by starting in one continent/country vs another.

janisj

also check out this thread

http://www.fodors.com/community/trav...ickettrips.cfm

w/i that thread are multiple links to other RTW threads and Gardyloo's 'RTW primer'

These should at least get you started.

Kathie

Thanks, janis!

DonTopaz

I am out there. So to speak.

RTW tickets can be a great buy. They can save you a fortune, give you enormously more flexibility than most other tickets, and are a great way to build up FF miles. But thay can also be maddeningly complex, and they offer about 11 zillion possibilities that can send your head spinning.

To answer your question about whether it would be worthwhile to fly somewhere else to start your RTW, the answer is almost assuredly "Yes -- Japan." A Star Alliance RTW ticket that lets you travel 29000 miles in business class costs $9986 (+taxes/fees) if you begin your trip in Seattle. That exact same ticket costs $6232+ if you start in Tokyo -- big enough difference for you?

Not only do you save about $3750 by starting in Japan, but you can break up your trip much more easily. For example, you could do the Europe parts in one trip, then go back home to Seattle, and then do the Asia parts in a separate trip. Especially now that one-way FF tickets are available, it makes all the sense in the world to start the RTW abroad.

The main principle in general planning is that, for purposes of RTW tickets, the world is divided into 3 areas: the Americas, Asia/Oceania, and Europe/Africa. When you start your trip in one area and then depart for the next area, you have to visit the third area before you can return to your origin area. For example, if you start in No America and then go to Asia, you would have to go to Europe/Africa before you return to the Americas.

The Star A RTW tickets are based on mileage -- you can get a ticket that gives you 29000, 34000, or 39000 miles. If you decide it makes sense to get a RTW, I'd encourage you to subscribe to Expert Flyer (expertflyer.com) to plan your flights -- it's inexpensive ($5/month for a basic membership, I think) and a lot more convenient and simpler than the Star Alliance planning tool. To figure out the distances for each flight leg, use the Great Circle Mapper -- gc.kls2.com (again, easier than the Star A tool).

Once you have a rough itinerary, you will need to use the Star A planner to verify the routing and mileage.

A few things to remember and look out for:

- Maximum 16 flight segments
- You cannot return to your origin city until the end of your trip
- You can have a surface segment (for example, fly to Amsterdam and then take the next flight from Paris, but that surface segment counts as a flight segment and as mileage against your total.
- Singapore Airlines has some hefty surcharges for many of its long-haul flights. Asiana has a surcharge on a few of its flights, and Air Canada has one on some flights to Asia.

That should get you started.

simpsonc510

Great information! I had no idea that a RTW ticket might cost less than the biz (z) class r.t. ORD-HKH-ORD ticket I have been considering for next April!

Kathie

Thanks, Don, more fuel for thought.

janisj

sheepish font on I knew there was another REALLY helpful Fodorite re RTW, but last night I couldn't think of the screen name. Good that DonTopaz saw your thread.

Gardyloo

Don beat me to it; for business class Star Alliance RTWs, Japan is currently the cheapest start point once the JPY fare is converted to USD.

But of course that doesn't dissuade me from another tedious long-winded exposition on RTWs. I need little prompting, alas. ;-)

With your basic itinerary, a 29,000 mile Star Alliance (we use the abbreviation *A) starting in Japan would more than suffice; in fact within that limit you’d have enough “extra” miles to do some domestic travel in North America.

Say for example you flew out to Tokyo sometime before the end of this year – maybe late leaf-peeping or skiing in Hokkaido – and picked up the ticket. Then you fly home and go back to work. Your stay-over in Japan could be very brief. (I’ve actually flown into Narita, picked up an RTW ticket at the counter, and got back on the same plane to return to the US in one day. Not recommended, but possible.)

Then, since RTW tickets are good for a year, you use some of the allocated miles for domestic travel, or maybe for a midwinter escape to the sun. You’d have to be careful to follow the rules, such as the one that allows only one stopover in a given city, so maybe you fly from Tokyo to Seattle, then after a North American trip, return to Vancouver instead so as not to break the “one stopover” rule.

Anyway, then in September/October, you rocket off to Europe for your planned holiday there, then down to SE Asia, then ultimately back to Japan. Maybe more leaf-peeping, or attend some fall festival, whatever.

As you can see, you can leverage the one ticket into quite a lot of travel, with up to three or four separate “vacations” (or, alas, could be work trips too) squeezed into the ticket over the course of a year.

An imaginary 29,000 mile route might look something like this - http://tinyurl.com/orrdwgf - and includes a “free” trip to Costa Rica and New York taken at some point between your arrival from Tokyo and your departure to Europe. Or you could go to California, or the Caribbean – all part of North America – instead of Costa Rica.

And also note that any changes of itinerary (not date changes – free) will only incur a $125 change fee, provided your revised route still fits within the mileage limits. They will, however, assess any changes in taxes and fees that result from your rerouting, e.g. airport taxes, fuel surcharges.

Now I want to address one other factor, and that is the limitations of the *A RTW product compared to the competing Oneworld product. (I am duty bound to do this, forgive me.)

Unlike *A, Oneworld’s main RTW product, the Oneworld Explorer, doesn’t count miles, it counts continents. The fewest number of continents you can include in a OWE is three – North America, Europe and Asia, which just happens to be your itinerary.

While Japan isn’t the cheapest place in the world (in USD) to start business class OWEs (that distinction remains with South Africa) it’s pretty decent at the moment. As Don says, the *A 29K mile price (CRWSTAR1) ex-Japan is $6232+ today. A DONE3, the Oneworld 3-continent product, is $90 less, $6143+.

So on the surface, not much in it. However, there are some major differences when one looks under the hood, so to speak. First and foremost is the missing mileage limitation. With the same 16 segments, you can fly a lot more using the Oneworld product than you can with the Star product. For example, here’s a valid DONE3 route starting in Japan and hitting the same European and Asian “targets” - http://tinyurl.com/mys4su9 - but including a stop in Hawaii on the way back from Japan, and a trip to Alaska during the summer before you head to Europe.

Two other differences come to mind as well. First, with *A RTWs, if the business-class booking code (usually “Z”) isn’t available on a given flight, you’re bumped down to economy. With Oneworld, in North America, if business class isn’t available, you’re bumped up to first class. This not only makes a difference in comfort, it also makes a difference in frequent flyer status. With the sample Oneworld route above, you’d acquire Platinum status with American Airlines easily, and could earn up to 100,000 or more AA miles, usable on Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, or any Oneworld partner airlines.

Second, the OWE rules don’t carry any of the surcharges for certain routes/planes that you see with *A. (Note the references from Don on Singapore’s or Air Canada’s surcharges – as much as $500 or $600 for premium-cabin flights on many long-haul routes.) While some Oneworld airlines DO charge very high fuel surcharges (notably British Airways) so do *A carriers such as Singapore and Lufthansa. So the “bottom line” for RTW tickets can vary greatly, depending on your choice of carriers and routes.

I’m a big advocate of people doing “multi-year” travel planning. As you can see from the above, you can pretty much do a year’s worth of comfortable flying – 16 flights – for something less than $450 per business-class flight. If you add in, say, a round trip to Europe the following year using the miles earned on the paid RTW ticket, the total can easily come to 20 or more business- or first-class flights over two years for, say, $7000 out of pocket.

Of course people’s financial situations aren’t all the same, but RTWs can let you think a bit out of the box. For example, for around $900 more per person ex-Japan, you could purchase a 4-continent business-class Oneworld ticket, and do a route something like this - http://tinyurl.com/muqxxpj - that includes a visit to Easter Island and Chile in South America. Or like this - http://tinyurl.com/lsyuumm - with a visit to South Africa thrown in. There are options to include Australia and New Zealand as well.

Or, with Oneworld, if you could get yourselves to South Africa in the first place (do you have a bunch of United miles? Use ‘em) the price of a four-continent business class ticket ex-South Africa is around $5300+. Again, with the mileage you’d earn, you’re looking at the potential of 20 – 22 business/first class flights over two years at an average out-of-pocket cost of three hundred bucks or so. That’s okay for London to Copenhagen, but a pretty screaming deal for Hong Kong to Vancouver on Cathay Pacific, or Johannesburg to Sydney on Qantas.

The point being, once you start, it’s hard to stop. It requires some strategic planning, but believe me, it’s worth it.

Kathie

Thanks for the info, gardyloo. I have a lot to digest. You can be assured I will be back with questions!

Many thanks to both of you.

Kathie

So having looked at these resources, I have a number of questions.

1. The duration of the ticket is one year, right?

2. I thought that once you started, you had to keep going in the same direction. So Narita back to the US (no more work to worry about!), then a flight to Europe via an east coast city, a couple of flights within Europe, then on to SE Asia, ending eventually in Tokyo (or could we end in, say, Taipei?) then buying a flight home. At what points in here could we break the trip and fly home for a few months?

3. I haven't flown American for a couple of decades, but I am a ff on Alaska. Could I book a One World trip using my Alaska account? advantages/disadvantages?

4 Frequent flier miles: Gardyloo, you mentioned the ticket buying me Platinum Status on American. On United, I'd figure 150% of actual miles for my gold status, and a 25-50% bonus for paid Business class, but It doesn't seem to me to add up to all that many miles. What am I missing?

I'm a great planner once I figure out all the rules, but that is my first task. Some of the routes Gardyloo posted seemed to double back - I thought that wasn't allowed?

DonTopaz

You are absolutely correct that it's essential to learn and understand the rules if you plan to buy a RTW ticket. Here's where you'll find them (and the answers to your questions) for OneWorld and Star Alliance:

http://www.oneworld.com/flights/roun...world-explorer

http://www.staralliance.com/en/fares...world-fare-tc/
http://www.staralliance.com/en/faqs/fares-faqs/

Kathie

Thanks, Don. I will come back with a couple of sample itineraries for you to critique.

Gardyloo

Answers -

1. Yes, a year from the first flight.

2. Right, forgot, you're retired. I was suggesting "breaking" the trip in the US until you're ready to head off to Europe, then on to Asia to end. But you could just as easily start in Asia, visit your SE Asia destinations, then "lay over" in the US, then hit Europe and fly straight to Japan to finish, for example, http://tinyurl.com/njdr7v2

You have to end in the country where you start, and you can't transit that country during the course of the RTW. With Oneworld, you're also only allowed two stopovers within the continent of origin, in your case Asia.

3. You could certainly book the miles to your Alaska account. However, not all Oneworld airlines are Alaska partners, so you might end up with fewer net miles, depending on which airlines you use. (AS partners with AA, BA, CX, and LA, but not Japan, Qatar, airBerlin, Finnair, Malaysian, and one or two more.)

4. If you were contemplating AA for mileage, I'd recommend you do a "Platinum challenge" before you start. If you earn 10,000 elite-qualifying points in three months (not terribly hard) then you start as Platinum - Oneworld Sapphire - and will earn 100% bonus miles on most flights, and 25% cabin bonus for business class, 50% for first class. A 40,000 mile RTW with a few AA segments within North America (which book into first class) can earn 100,000 redeemable miles without breaking a sweat.

4a. "Doubling back" only matters between continents, not within them. You can zigzag and double back to your heart's content within, say, Asia or North America, but not between, say, Europe and Asia. The key is that you have to cross both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans in the same direction, and that you progress between the IATA "regions" - cunningly named I, II and III in order. The Americas are Region I, Europe and Africa Region II, and Asia/Oceania including Australia, NZ and the South Pacific Islands) as Region III. You can go III - I - II - III, or III- II - I - III, etc., but not I - II - I - III, for example. Hope that's clear.

In addition, there are a couple of "exceptions" to the doubling-back prohibition. For example, you can transit North America between another continent and South America (transit = 24 hours or less) and then return to North America after SA before continuing. Or you can transit Asia between Europe and Australia/NZ before returning to Asia. Like Don says, there are lots of rules to study to get the most out of these products. Some of us treat them like the Talmud - parsing words to extract maximum leverage.

Kathie

Having read the various rules (I don't guarantee I've fully digested them!) and thinking about our circumstances, I think it makes the most sense to do *Alliance. Only two stopovers in the continent of origin for One World is a deal-breaker for us.

If I think of a full year of travel, what would make sense is
(fly to Narita - spend some time in Japan - maybe at the Hyatt Hakone)
Pick up RTW tickets.
Fly NRT-HNL
(buy a ticket to LIH) spend our three weeks at our time share on Kauai
Fly LIH-SFO-SEA

Break in travel for a number of months

Fly to Europe AMS/CDG, or into ROM, out of Venice 2-3 weeks in Europe
[not sure about routing here - maybe via Frankfort on Lufthansa or via Dubai on Emirates]
Fly to BKK, a couple of weeks in Thailand,
Fly to HKG a few days there
Fly to NRT
(fly home on free FF mile ticket)

That would take care of our usual travel year. That won't work this year - we already have our RT tickets to LIH. But we could start later next year. I'll have to play with dates and options. But does what I've laid out make sense?

simpsonc510

Paying close attention! This sounds like something I could do. I have a minor problem in that I find it difficult to be gone from home for more than 2 to 2.5 weeks at a time.

Q: does one book all of this on line or speak with an agent?

DonTopaz

Kathie, your plan does seem reasonable and well within the rules. You'll be able to do at least some of your intra-Europe travel by air if you want, as you basic route doesn't come close to the max 16 segments. Just don't forget that any "land" portions (such as LIH-HNL) count as both 1 segment and the miles between cities. BTW, since I know you enjoyed Kyoto, you can fly from HKG to Kansai airport (KIX, which serves Kyoto), on your way home if you want.

Carol, I've done 7 or 8 RTWs since 2001, none for more than 18-20 days. *A RTWs are now bookable online. OW claims that you can book their RTWs online, but my recent experience is that you need to call them (in the US, AA has a RTW desk to handle the reservations).

Gardyloo

<i>If I think of a full year of travel, what would make sense is (fly to Narita - spend some time in Japan - maybe at the Hyatt Hakone)
Pick up RTW tickets.
Fly NRT-HNL
(buy a ticket to LIH) spend our three weeks at our time share on Kauai
Fly LIH-SFO-SEA

Break in travel for a number of months

Fly to Europe AMS/CDG, or into ROM, out of Venice 2-3 weeks in Europe
[not sure about routing here - maybe via Frankfort on Lufthansa or via Dubai on Emirates]
Fly to BKK, a couple of weeks in Thailand,
Fly to HKG a few days there
Fly to NRT
(fly home on free FF mile ticket)</i>

This will work with either *A or Oneworld. Remember the "continent of origin" is where the ticket started, so you'd only have two stopovers - Bangkok and Hong Kong; you don't count Tokyo as the ticket starts when you leave Japan and ends when you return.

You have to use airlines in the alliance that sells the ticket; Emirates isn't available with either *A or Oneworld routes - they're not in any alliance. You can still stop in Dubai if you choose, however - for example (*A) FRA-DXB on Lufthansa, ZRH-DXB on Swiss, etc., then DXB-BKK on Thai. Or with Oneworld, London to DXB on BA or Qantas, then DXB-BKK via Doha on Qatar Airlines, or just reverse the order of BKK and HKG and go DXB-HKG on Cathay Pacific, HKG-BKK on CX, then BKK-NRT on Japan AL to finish. There are thousands and thousands of route permutations within each alliance/scenario.

<b>However,</b> looking at your itinerary, I find myself wondering if an RTW ticket is the right product for you. Even with the 29,000 mile *A ticket (the shortest distance you can buy in business class) your route would still leave several thousand miles on the table.

After taxes and fees ex-Japan you're probably looking at $7500 +/- total cost per ticket. By comparison, you can purchase round trip business class tickets from Seattle or Vancouver to Europe for under $3000 most of the year, and round trips from Europe to Bangkok or Hong Kong for under $2500. So you fly to Europe, visit Holland or Italy or what have you, then - separate from the Seattle - Europe ticket, buy a stand-alone Europe - Asia ticket, travel to BKK, HKG and/or Japan, then back to Europe and use the return portion of the Seattle ticket. You <i>might</i> be thousands of dollars ahead, and wouldn't need to burn a bunch of FF miles to "position" yourselves in Japan in the first place.

Remember with RTWs you're purchasing up to 16 flights for a fixed price; leaving half a dozen (or more) of them on the table means the benefit-cost calculation suffers by quite a lot. If you want to use those segments for domestic travel between overseas trips, then the RTW numbers might make more sense.

<i>Q: does one book all of this on line or speak with an agent?</i>

Both *A and Oneworld have online booking tools for RTWs. The vast majority of travel agents in North America have never heard of these products. There are a couple of specialty agencies that know something about them, and in Europe and especially Australia/NZ, TAs are better educated on them.

http://www.oneworld.com/flights/roun...world-explorer

http://www.staralliance.com/en/fares...he-world-fare/

Kathie

Gardyloo, (autocorrect wants to call you "grandly") I am aware that the simple itinerary I outlined "would still leave several thousand miles on the table." But I have given you just the places we've already planned for. If we were to buy the RTW ticket, there would be more stops we would plan. I have to play with these ideas a bit. (And, given our love of Asia, I can assure you that we would add stops in Asia)

Don, yes, we would stop in Kyoto during our Japan stop on our way home. And it looks to me like we'd have plenty of segments left for things like the side trip to Lihue.

Since we go to Kauai for three weeks every year, if we can integrate that into the RTW ticket, that would be great. It typically costs us nearly $1000 each for our RT coach tickets (we usually get free upgrades on 2 or 3 out of four legs).

I am surprised to hear that Emirates isn't part of *A - weren't they for a time? I remember receiving a glossy brochure on them a few years back when they started flying from Seattle. I actually have no interest - make that negative interest - in Dubai, so was just ruminating about routings. I have to look at all the options.

Gardyloo, when I've checked for SEA-somewhere in Europe biz tickets the prices are typically in the 4K range. Since I usually use miles for those trips I'm not up on how to get good Biz class prices. It sounds like I need to learn about that.

Don and Gardyloo, you have both been so helpful. We have lots to think about. If we opt to start using RTW tickets, it will change our whole travel planning process.

I'm sure I will have more questions.

julia1

Bookmarking for further study