Where to stay in Sabi Sands for 3 nights, late August, under $500 pppn?

Did you see this report?
http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/trip-report-south-africa-and-kenya-august-2009.cfm

Though I loved my Mala Mala stay and appreciated the no single supplement deal I got, if I could return to Sabi Sands, I would be checking into Ele Plains and Arathusa for the value.

What I've learned about EP is that the open vehicles can have up to about 10 people in them. Not good for serious photographers. Mala Mala has 6 max and often less. I spent 4 days with one couple, so we were 3.

I think EP houses quite a few people.

Rare sightings like pangolin, aardwolf, etc. are just dumb luck regardless of where you stay. But if you'd really like to see these:

Pangolin--Kafue in Zambia is one of the better places to see these, but I did not. But they are rare anyplace.

Aardwolf--Duba Plains has quite a few. I saw 2 or 3 in 4 nights with great pictures.

Ardvark--I heard of a spot in Linyanti that apparently has lots of these. Don't recall other details.

Honey badger--Zambia's S. Luangwa and especially the Lower Zambezi is about the best place for these, especially on night drives.

Here are excerpts of some past conversation on EP.

• numbat83 on Jan 21, 09 at 10:58 AM

"Elephant Plains was fully booked (which they almost always are -- one needs to book early to secure a reservation there) and our vehicle usually had 8 people. They have 3 vehicles, and others had fewer people on some drives, it just depends on the configuration of guests, of course. In our vehicle, one person sat in front with the driver, and then there were two people in each of the first two rows (where one could easily fit 3) and then usually 3 people in the back row, which was higher. I loved the sightlines from the higher backseat when I sat there. People changed around so that everyone got to try different seats. It never felt crowded. We traveled with wonderful, considerate people, and it was never a problem to get great photos -- the sightlines were excellent from all the seats. There were many "regulars" at EP and the drives were wonderful"


Me asking a question about an EP report:
"I've been waiting for an Elephant Plains report. Appears to have excellent game viewing. And you asked the question I wanted to know. Why is it less expensive? You also provided the answer. Not excessively fancy and more people per vehicle. Can you tell me how the 10 fit in? Was it a bigger jeep? I'm thinking 1 guest in front and 3 rows of 3 and a driver.

If you can recall, how long were your drives?"


Mad (screen name) replies to my question:
"It's a pretty big Landrover with four rows of seats- driver and 1 passenger and then 3 rows of 3. It's very spacious and comfortable. The drives are from 5:30- 8:30 a.m., a bush walk from 9:30- 10:15 a.m. and then another game drive from 4:00-7:00 p.m.. Your afternoon is essentially free, as it's too hot to be out. We used this time to nap and relax by the pool- it was wonderful!
If we were to go back again, I think we'd come at a different time of year to see the whales at Hermanus and to try for a shark dive again- I wouldn't hesitate to return to Elephant Plains ."

Mad went in April.

We've stayed at three SSGR lodges that I guess I would describe as "affordable" - Nkorho, Chitwa Chitwa, and Elephant Plains, always in mid-August - early September, most recently EP the second week of last month.

These things are subjective, of course, but I would say that of the three the accommodations were the most comfortable and attractive at Elephant Plains, then Chitwa Chitwa, then Nkorho. Food would follow the same order.

In terms of the immediate lodge surroundings, it's hard to beat Chitwa Chitwa with its pond immediately in front of the accommodation. Nkorho's pond (made famous on the Africam website) is smaller and more distant; in the case of EP there is often game visible in the river basin in front of the lodge and on the hillside opposite; however in winter the river is likely to be dry thus you're not as likely to see game right from the lodge as with the other two, especially Chitwa Chitwa.

Regarding game viewing and crowded vehicles, I don't think there's much difference that I can recall. Certainly I don't remember any occasions when there were too many people in the vehicles to impede photo-taking; in all cases the driver/rangers were very considerate of photo angles, light direction etc., to the extent they were able to do so given the immediate location or whether we were in first or second position relative to the sleeping lions or mating leopards (Nkorho.) And, I mean, it's the Sabi Sand reserve... what's not to like in terms of game sighting?

We would go back to Chitwa Chitwa or EP in a shot; not so much to Nkorho where the accommodation and vibe was, frankly, a little too "old fashioned" for our liking, if you get my meaning.

As for Aardwolves or Honey Badgers, luck is luck. Saw Cheetahs during the Nkorho stay, Civets at EP and Genets at Chitwa Chitwa. But that's how it goes - nothing yet tops the spitting cobra coiled around the flower pot by our rondavel's door at another lodge up in the Balule reserve. Thankfully.

Thanks -- good food for thought. I had written off Mala Mala main camp because it seems quite large and because of the cost, but I did not realize they only put 6 guests in their vehicle -- that would seem to be quite a big plus. Food for thought.

You might also consider Kirkman's, booked through andBeyond. Kirkman's used to be part of Mala Mala and shares some traversing rights with them. I'd say you would have about the same number of people in your vehicle as MM, although we only had our 4 in the vehicle when we were there in 2006.

"not so much to Nkorho where the accommodation and vibe was, frankly, a little too "old fashioned" for our liking, if you get my meaning."

Actually,I don't get your meaning could you explain what you mean by that? We will be at Nkorho (and also Elephant Plains) in just a few weeks. I am a bit concerned about the number of folks in the vehicles at Ele Plains, but now am really curious as to what you mean by "old fashioned" for Nkorho.

What I meant was, elephant foot umbrella stands/ashtrays and the like in the lounge, one of the staff reminiscing rather fondly with the guests about the days before majority rule, stuff like that. Really don't want to say more; I don't want to blow up anecdotes into sermons.

ah, okay, now I get your drift.

Shaytay - andBeyond abolished it's former "window seat guarantee" and so whether you end up with a packed car sitting 3 people in a row or a less crowded car is luck of the draw nowadays.

In Sabi Sand there is also Djuma. There the leopards are more on the ground than in a tree - compared to lodges we have visited in SS and Timbavati. Great photo opportunities. But here is also no "window seat guarantee" and Vuyatela might be round 500US$pppd.

What about Timbavati? We stayed at King's and it was very nice. Good value for money! They have a honey badger which visites "regularly" the rubbish bin close to the kitchen. We witnessed that animal for at least half and hour one evening!
Excellent leopard sightings - but mostly in trees.

It seems within the last couple years many of the formerly considered high-end lodges tend to not give a "window seat guarantee" anymore which is rather sad/bad.

Happy planning!

SV

Guess I'd also chime in here and suggest Kings Camp in the Timbavati. http://kingscamp.com/ Easy to get to out of Kruger (where are you staying in Kruger??). Drive out of Kruger to Hoedspruit. From Hoedspruit it is an easy 40 min drive back into Kings Camp. See my recent trip report for more details.
Kings Camp 2010 rate in Sep is right on your edge, 3,700 Rand per night. (Hope the $$$ strengthens!!!). But do the KC "special" which is stay for 5 nights but pay for only 4. Now that's the ticket!!!

"honey badger or pangolin or aardwolf", well I've seen only the honey badger 2-3 times in over 80 night drives. Never the other two. Other small cats more often, maybe every second drive. Good luck

regards - tom

"I had written off Mala Mala main camp because it seems quite large and because of the cost,"

I can understand going elsewhere to maintain your budget, but I found the ambiance of Mala Mala Main Camp to be very nice, not big hotel-like, and not something to run from. The individual rondavels were situated so you could view the river and the animals that came to drink. The deck where lunch was served had the same views. Near the entrance gate were monkeys and antelope. It was not a small camp in the midst of the delta, but neither was it a Super 8 Motel.

I was pleasantly surprised during my stay. I figured I'd tolerate the lodging for the excellent wildlife, but actually found it to be well designed for nature lovers. There were no man made water sources either. Don't know if some of the waterholes mentioned at other places were manmade or not.

Since Chitwa Chitwa was mentioned, do Arathusa and Chitwa Chitwa share traversing rights, expanding the habitat of both properties?

Before choosing Mala Mala again, I'd like to know the tracker situation and if they are currently used or if there is only a ranger in the vehicle.

Yes, Chitwa Chitwa and Arathusa share traversing rights over a common area that includes Elephant Plains and some others I believe.

SV, I wasn't alluding to any "window seat" guarantee at Kirkman's. I meant that Kirkman's might also have 6 in a vehicle, 2 rows with 3 across. It may just be "the luck of the draw" as to whether you'd have 4 or 6 in a vehicle (or if you had a larger vehicle that had more than two rows of seats.)

I have a friend that goes to Djuma almost every year. She really likes the people and the place. It's on the northern border of MM.

I'll suggest my favorite website again: http://www.sabisand.co.za/

There is a map that shows shared traversing rights so you know what to expect and you can access all the lodges so you can compare rates.

Currently watching this: www.djuma.com/blog/index.php?special=Webcam
Watching a leopard!!

Atravelynn
As per September 09 there were no trackers on duty. I doubt they will employ trackers in the near future - MM is doing "okay" without trackers. So they might change their guiding policy altogether to a one-guide-only concept

SV

THX ShayTay for the clarification.

SV

For what it is worth, we were at Kirkmans in April. The camp was nearly full, only one cottage was free, I think. We had four on our game drives..a man in the front seat, his wife and myself in the second seat and my husband in the back seat. The vehicles going out while we were there had either four or five in each. I didn't see any three people to a row. I would have rebelled because with all of the camera stuff the second seat would have been a tight fit and made picture taking very hard.

Maybe we were just lucky....

FWIW, Since 2008 I have been keeping notes of the number of guests in the vehicle on each game drive. In my Sep 2009 Fodors report of Kirkmans I was - 5 nights in camp, 10 total game drives. Counts, including myself - 2 drives had 1 guest (me alone), 4 drives had 5 guests, 3 drives had 6 guests, and 1 drive had 7 guests.

regards - tom

"Atravelynn
As per September 09 there were no trackers on duty. I doubt they will employ trackers in the near future - MM is doing "okay" without trackers. So they might change their guiding policy altogether to a one-guide-only concept

SV"

I thought there were still no trackers, but did not want to make a false statement that never leaves cyberspace.

Don't the other Sabi Sands accommodations employ trackers? To me that tips the balance away from Mala Mala whereas when I was deciding which Sabi Sand reserve to go to, Mala Mala won out easily once I got the SS lifted.

Christabir, that is a great map. The traversing rights appear when you lay your mouse over the concessions.

I agree the website that shows the traversing rights is fantastic!

Everybody has their own individual likes and dislikes when it comes to camps -- obviously there are some intangibles. I don't know how to say this delicately, but when I look at the photos of Kings Camp, the rooms look like the exact opposite of what I want on safari. I'm sure the game viewing is excellent -- but oriental rugs and draperies on the windows and a telephone in the room are exactly what I am willing to pay more to avoid. I'm open to Timbavati though.

Nkorho sounds downright awful to me.

Re: Mala Mala, I will confess to a preference for having a tracker in the vehicle. We had a bad experience at Little Vumbura -- our guide on night drives trying to hold the spotlight and drive and spot game all on his own, and not doing a very good job of any of the three frankly. I will not rule out Mala Mala but so far the lack of trackers is the biggest downside to me.

I will take a look at Djuma.

It sounds like Dulini still has the limit of 6 people per vehicle in place, which is nice.

One other place that looks interesting to me is Ngala Tented Camp, but I have not heard much about it.

Also I wonder about Rhino Plains Camp.

See my report on our stay at EP in July 2007.

http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/trip-report--sabi-sands-timbavati--july-2007.cfm

We stayed in EP for 3 nightds in early Sept 09 and would go back tomorrow. The accom & food was fantastic and each vehicle had a tracker. Every game drive we had a kill of either lion or leopard. Wild dog we saw on 3 drives and the guides really went out of their way to assist those wanting photos, they would move the vehicle for better light and position.

The number in the vehicle was between 4-7, no problems taking photos. We had so many good sightings that we did not get time for sundowners.

We saw Honey badger while on a early morning walk in Kruger (Satara) and this was very memorable.

We would strongly recommend EP for the price and value

Where are you staying in Kruger?

If you're open to the Timbavati, check out GomoGomo. I guess they don't have tents anymore in their new location, but it sounds like they haven't fancied things up too much. And their price is a lot less than other places.

Lisa,

I was at Dulini in August 2006. The main problem with the Western SSGR is that there is a queue for sightings - as all lodges in that area have to share sightings........ it's the Exeter lodges, the Richard Branson lodge (forget the name), Savanna, Idube etc etc., (you get the idea - that general area).

That said, one evening when we were returning to camp (inide Dulini property) we saw a Leopard kill Nyala and take it up the tree.

On the positive side, the lodge is small - great service and quite flexible without much rigidity.

Christabir

Like the map, it appears to show that Singita and Londolozi are also no longer members of SSGR like MM, but their names still appear on the map. Anyone shed light on that?

Matt

Atravelynn
I don't know of a lodge in SS which does not deploy trackres - except MM.
Also for me having trackers is essential particularly in an area like SS.

SV

Trackers or not in MM.
Some posters/lurkers here have been to MM many times when they had trackers and multiple times after no trackers. It would be most interesting to hear from them how their game viewing experience differs for with/without trackers.

regards - tom

Lisa - you'll have trouble finding places that aren't too posh all over S Africa. We were surprised even at Arathusa (it's in our price range) they have such nice accommodations. We fell in love with Mashatu tented camp in Botswana (it's nowhere that you're looking at in Sabi, but in a great spot in SE Bots) for exactly that reason. Just a tent on a slab, bathroom out the back of the tent, little electricity, but nice beds, great staff. I wish there were more options just like it. We are considering Thanda tented on a future trip just for the experience of no electricity at all. Ngala tented is an &beyond property, so don't expect to rough it (but everyone loves it).

napamatt - you're right. It wasn't like that just a few weeks ago. The Singita website still says "Singita Sabi Sand". Maybe they don't share any traversing rights.

Christabir

I noticed that when you click on the lodges link on the site, they don't mention either Singita or Londolozi, so presumably they have left SSGR. If so the issue may not just be about the prickly Mike Rattray.

Tom

I posted after my January trip that we didn't have trackers and that our game viewing was excellent. Unfortunately there is no way too tell if it would have been better with a tracker. I know my enjoyment would have been enhanced with Philemon in the vehicle and he is a great tracker, we saw that many times, even though he sat at the back (when he needed to track he got off the vehicle and did it on foot). I have had the opportunity to compare trackers at MM, thanks to staying at both Main Camp and Rattrays on most trips. The good tracker really adds to the game drive, the bad tracker (and there were plenty) does not. When you'd spent four days with someone exceptional like Collen or Philemon, you really noticed the difference when you got one of the bored trackers, who was mailing it in.
Game viewing at MM does not appear to be suffering based on the game reports and statistics and on reports I get from friends there - of course these may be biased, but I can only report what I see and hear.
I will be back there next January and I assume Kaye will be there in December, so we'll be able to give fresh insights.

matt- I can't really pick on "prickly" Mr Rattray. They own Mashatu, too and I loved it there! And we had a tracker in the back on all of our game drives there and we were on our own for 6 of our 8 game drives (private safaris are AWESOME!!). SSGR will lose some of its advertising luster if Singita, Londolozi and MM all leave. Wonder what's going on..... According to their websites, MM is definitely out, but Singita and Londolozi both still say they are part of SSGR.

Lisa - when we got to Mashatu, I was joking that I wanted to see a pangolin and a porcupine. EVERYONE tried as hard as they could to find them for me. When a porcupine showed up in the staff area of camp, they came and got me!! So, no matter where you go, let them know you'd really like to see those few species - you never know when or where one will show up!! Unfortunately, no pangolin, but that was a really long shot.

For those who asked -- in Kruger we're staying at Lower Sabie, Olifants, and Skukuza. Previously have stayed in others but decided to concentrate mainly in the south in the dry season, and Olifants and Lower Sabie are two of our favorites. Skukuza area is busy -- we have visited it before -- but well-located for game drives.

Keep those ideas coming everybody -- thanks!

(And I don't really expect to see a pangolin or an aardwolf ever, but a girl can dream.)

This past August we stayed at Kirkman's for about $300 Can. per night (pay for 2, stay for 3) and Inyati for $350 Can. Private vehicle at Inyati was 2000 Rand, ($285 Can.) We rented it for 2 days and had the third day private as well. Fantastic leopards at Inyati, around our lodge each night and mating leopards in the daytime too. Also saw a cheetah there. We stayed at Mala Mala too and it had the best game viewing, but we enjoyed the other two places as well. More lions at Kirkman's and Inyati than at Mala Mala. Best guide was at Mala Mala, but it might have been even better, especially on night drives, if there was a tracker for the spotlight.

I find it a bit awkward (linguistically) that three(?) big camps are leaving/left the SSGR. They haven't -really- left, they are still there. And its much easier to talk about the whole area as SSGR encompassing all those camps. Rather than the SSGR and the-other-three-camps-located-nearby.

As for night drives with spotlights. Of the 80-100 "night" drives I've been on, I can count on one hand the number of big cat hunts I've seen. And on one hand the number of decent photos at night. Give me another hour on the afternoon drive and take that hour away at night. Next time, with a private vehicle .

regards - tom

Hi Lisa - have you considered Ngala in the Timbavati? They have 2 lodges - Ngala Safari, the bigger and more affordable of the 2, as well as Ngala Tented, the exclusive and luxurious option. I know you've mentioned that you prefer smaller lodges, and as I said, Ngala Safari is a big lodge, but their rates are very good, and they offer an excellent value for money safari experience! As you would rather stay out in the bush a little longer, than rush back to the lodge for bacon and eggs, I really think Ngala Safari would be a good option for you. 6 on a vehicle, and their game rangers are definitely of the best in the industry (as is the case at all of the andBeyond lodges)!
Mike Karantonis

Staying out longer on a game drive. Works fine if you are the only guest on the vehicle. If you have 4-6 other guests then they have to agree to modifying the preset schedule.

I was at Ngala Safari Lodge in Sep of 2008 for eight nights. It is a large lodge having 21 guest hut/bungalows. The guide I had there was ok as a guide but poor as a guide if you are interested in photography. Here is a link to my Fodors trip report-
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=35161085

regards - tom

Tom

The camps really are still in the SSGR, they apparently have decided they don't need to belong to the larger group. My sense is that everyone else would benefit from association with those famous names, whilst the names themselves would not.
But I agree, I will continue to refer to SSGR as the geographical entity not the marketing entity.

Matt

"But I agree, I will continue to refer to SSGR as the geographical entity not the marketing entity."
Yes, well said, that is what I was trying to say.

There is, according to them, an official web site of the Sabi Sand Reserve - http://www.sabisand.co.za/ssw-map.html . It is on occasion referred to here because it shows the shared traversing areas of camps in SSGR. And it thus can confuse those if they are looking for perhaps MalaMala.

I in fact emailed that org with the question of why MM was not shown and this is their response.

Michelle @ Origin Blu Communication wrote:

> Good afternoon Tom,
>
> Many thanks for the feedback which you submitted via the Sabi Sand website.
>
> What many people do not realise is that MalaMala is no longer a member of the Sabi Sand Wildtuin. This was their own decision, and was made quite a few years ago. They formally terminated their membership, and now operate as a completely independent entity.
>
> This is the reason why they do not appear on the Sabi Sand Reserve map with the rest of the member properties.

(etc closing)

You're not a member, you do not exist. Even if you are in the middle of us and the largest and founded the organization. Typical of a marketing/advertising organization.

regards - tom

Tom

I just asked re the Singita / Londolozi situation. Also Rocco's old favorite Simbambili no longer appears.

Matt

Slowly all traces of a once prominent presence just disappear...

Of those I've looked at and read reviews of so far the one I like the most is Ngala Tented (especially for its small size) -- I did not realize it only has 6 to a vehicle so that is a plus as well. But I can't figure out where it is located. It looks to be somewhere not far from Orpen gate of Kruger, but is it inside or outside the park itself and is it north, south, east, or west of Orpen and how far? (We have a great detailed map of the area and are just trying to figure out where it's situated.) I do think it is more than we want to spend but it seems to have many positives.

Here is a &Beyond map showing location of Ngala camps. It is just below/borders the Timbavati Reserve. Or about 20 miles north of the Sabi Sand Reserve. It is not in Kruger, it borders Kruger on the east.
http://www.andbeyondafrica.com/luxury_safari/south_africa/kruger_national_park_and_surrounds/and_beyond_ngala_private_game_reserve/and_beyond_ngala_private_game_reserve_map

This page show their 2009 rates-
http://www.andbeyondafrica.com/luxury_safari/south_africa/kruger_national_park_and_surrounds/and_beyond_ngala_private_game_reserve/rates
Click to get 2010 rates. Your August time frame is 5,315 Rand pppn, or around $700. Check for long stay deals. $700 pppn opens up many more camps than your original look at $500 camps.

regards - tom

Tom is correct - Ngala Tented is offering a long stay deal valid for travel in August 2010 - pay for 3 nights and receive a 4th night free. It really is a beautiful lodge and I'm sure you'll have a great time there, Lisa!
Mike Karantonis

Hi Lisa,

we stay at Ngala Tented for 3 days this past September.We really enjoyed it but you cannot compare with the Kwando feel or the Botswana feel( i think you will not get that wild and remote feeling is this reserves)

The Camp is very close to the north of the Orpen Gate,is 5 minutes driving from the Orpen road and is located in the souther part of the reserve.
The Timvabati Reserve is bordering Kruger NP with no fence( just like the SabiSand) so animals can move in and out of the reserve,for example the day before our arrival a pride with 19 lions that had been around for a month had moved to Kruger and 2 male cheetah(that we did not get to see )came from Kruger to the Timbavati the day we where leaving.

The tents are very nice,i will say too nice and not rustic for sure(They have AC but not phone or TV ,thank goodness) but somehow they have a nice atmosphere like the rest of the camp.
They are a bit close together,not a big deal for me.There where most days and nights impalas,bushbucks,baboons,vervet monkeys in front of our veranda and from the pool or the dining area we saw elephants,giraffes ,kudus and other antelopes in the dry Timvabati rever bed.
¡One day my son and a guest from another tent saw a serval cat under my son´s tent !

There where 2 things we really ,really like about this camp. One was the wildlife viewing which was great and of course is the most important for me while on safari and the other one was the people,they where just fantastic ,from the managers to the guide and the rest of the staff.

When we booked this camp they did not have the stay 4 pay 3 deal(this was only at Ngala Lodge ) but they had a stay 3 get private game drives, which we enjoyed a lot and is was great for our photography.

Good luck with your planning.

Paco.

Paco - At Ngala Tented how may times did you see lions and leopards? Rhino, buffalo?

regards - tom

Tom,
We saw 3 leopards ,a pride with 9 lions and one very shy male that was part of a 4 male lion coalition that they haven't seen before in the area.

We only saw one rhino but we wanted to look for other things(like elephants) since we had seen many at Phinda and Kirkmans,our guide offer us to go and see a family of 3 rhinos .
We did see also 3 herds off buffalos but not big herds.

We spend one full afternoon at a hyena den that was great,one full morning with the lion pride ( no flat cats) and a couple hours with the male leopard brothers,apart from the best elephant sightings of the trip.


To me is more about the quality of the sightings that the number and i think we where lucky here.

Paco.

Thanks Paco. Agree quality of sightings much more important than count. Flat cat lions are of little interest after the first minute.

regards - tom

Well, the buy 3 stay 4 would make it at least in the realm of possibility.

On the other hand, for the same price or less I think we could probably stay at Elephant Plains and have private drives for the whole time...which is tempting.

Paco, thank you for your thoughts about Ngala Tented. Do you have any photos?

Lisa,

We had a great trip in 2006 which ended with three nights at Ngala Tented. Here is a link to my trip report (scroll down to find Ngala) with a link to a few photos.

We really enjoyed our time there. If you go, ask for tent #1--it's closest to the riverbed and has no other tent on one side.

I just want to chime in that we stayed at Ngala Tented in 2007 and followed a pride of lions and their cubs for seemingly hours. Our guide and tracker had so much enthusiasm that we just could not believe since they had to do this so many times a day. They would not give up, and even both got out on foot to find them (leaving us in the rover - scary!) and jumped back in - flying through brush and grass to find them. It was totally awesome and a highlight for us.

Like Paco said, the staff and mgt. was awesome. We had 4 in our jeep for one day; two days private, as other guests departed and we loved it.

If you could find a good deal go for it.

FP

Lisa - EP sells out really fast, so if you want to do that do it quickly. We were at Arathusa this year and enjoyed it for about the same price as EP. Stayed at Ngala Safari Lodge in 2006 after Bots - it was not great after the experience in Bots, but they have no single supplement and we had 2 singles. But I have a very warm place in my heart for it as we saw our first rhinos there.... for us just amazing. Wish we could have gone to Tented. But if it's about the wildlife, I'd try for something in Sabi Sand.

From Sabi Sand Windtuin.

Londolozi and Singita still part of SSGR, but didn't want to help pay for the site (promoting their competitors)so declined to be invloved.

The good news is that EP does have space available.

The bad news is that they will not allow only two people to book a private vehicle, they require at least 4 in the vehicle. (You can't even buy the other two spaces in the vehicle.)

Back to the drawing board.

I seriously think the days of camps being almost always full are behind us for a couple of years at least.

It appears that most operators are now really beginning to suffer, many had camps pre-booked last year, now the bookings for next year are really drying up.

I think there might be opportunities for flexible travelers next year.

Hi Matt

Of course I will be there in December 2009! Where else would I be? I have missed my half-yearly visit due to three nieces getting married this year but next year will go for a month to MM from the middle of July 2010 and then in January 2011 due to my niece's social preferences over Xmas 2010.
I have not been on this forum for weeks so that is why I am only responding now, so was not ignoring the question asked. I am still going to Mashatu this December with niece Madeline, and Becky and I will still be going to Mashatu as well in January 2011.

In my opinion, my wildlife viewing without trackers this past Xmas/January 2009, was just as good as ever before.

Time is getting closer and closer, and I cannot wait to be back enjoying my time at MM and Mashatu - places where I seem to be able to forget about all my health issues!!!

Kind regards

Kaye

KayeN - thanks, interesting your opinion of MM wildlife viewing without trackers. Rather what I would expect. The best "trackers" are the Motorola radios on several vehicles out and about.

regards - tom
ps - and have missed -you- on the forum!!!

I was just on the gomo gomo website, and they had 2 pangolin sightings in their september report. They were pretty excited! I haven't heard much about Gomo Gomo since they moved to Timbavati, but for the price, it sure looks like a good value. Maybe a consideration.

FWIW, Gomo Gomo is no longer in the Timbavati but nearby in the Klaserie Reserve.
http://www.gomogomo.co.za/frameset.html
Their rates are still attractive at around $200pppn.

I can't seem to find the name of the camp that is now where Gomo Gomo used to be in the Timbavati. Anybody?

regards -tom

Oh - I missed that about GG. Thought it was in Sabi and moved to Timbavati, but I was incorrect - it moved from Timbavati to Klasserie. Oops. tom - I bet a new high end place will open up soon. Bad timing.

I think a camp called Simbavati may be where GomoGomo used to be. It sure looks like the GomoGomo I was at in 2008. Especially since there aren't that many properties with tents available.

LP - I think you're correct.
regards - tom

Yup - Simbavati is on the Old Gomo Gomo site.

Tanda Tula is another lovely little tented camp just further down from Simbavati.

We have stayed at Tanda Tula (mentioned before) and eynjoyed it tremendously. It's tented on stilts and a bit more on the "rustic side" compared to Lonolozi and the like.
Game sightings were excellent, food as well - they have the family table and a nice boma.

Maybe that's an option http://www.constantia-uitsig.com/pages/hotel/best-of-two-worlds-rates.php

SV

Another nice option:
DJUMA. I have got the impression "their" leopards are extremely often in the open (on the ground resting, walking etc).
Maybe you do some virtual real-time game drives in order to get a feel:
http://www.wildearth.tv/web/djuma1

SV

Simbavati looks really nice, especially the setting on the river. Any sense of how the game viewing is in that area?

Simbavati in the Timbavati?
(Should be a song)
Is where Gomo Gomo used to be. Nice central location in Timbavati. Game viewing, assuming they share traversing rights, should be as good as say Kings Camp. But a -lot- also depends on the guides/rangers and I've heard nothing about those.

regards - tom

When I was at the former GomoGomo, now Simabavati- the game viewing was great. Lions, leopards, elephants, and even cheetah.
And the location on the river was reallly nice.

Hi everybody,
Thanks so much for all of your ideas, they were extraordinarily helpful. After much searching we have been offered a price for three nights at Simbavati with private vehicle, guide, and tracker that I simply think is too good to pass up. So even though there aren't many reviews of it yet, I think we are going to go ahead and roll the dice. The setting on the river looks absolutely gorgeous and we love the look of the tents. They do allow children but since our drives will be private I am not worried about that because we actually enjoy being around kids at meals and things, just not when we are trying to take photographs. I just hope the guiding and tracking are good and hope the game is accommodating for us in August. If it were not for this forum I don't think we ever would have even looked at Simbavati so we really appreciate the input here as always.

lisa - thanks for getting back to us on this. That area of the Timbavati is excellent, I have been there four times, as recent as last Sep. Think its good you have private vehicle because Simbavati advertises they are family oriented and allow children as young as 6 years.

It's a ways off but please get back to us again after your safari there. And you stayed well within your $500pppn budget?

regards - tom

I'm sure you're gonna love it.

Tom -- It is just under $400 per person per night, INCLUDING a private vehicle w/ guide and tracker. Basically having a private vehicle added 2000 ZAR per day to the cost which I think is pretty reasonable, and their nightly rates are good too. This will be our first time having a private vehicle and we are pretty excited about it.

Thanks lisa - that is a very good rate for private vehicle. Hmmm, interesting, seems the vehicle, 2000 ZAR, $270, day is close I think to what I've been quoted at Kings Camp. So the room is about $265 per pppn. Well, whatever, it's good package. I'll be most interested in how it all goes for you. Wish you were staying longer than 3 nights . And wish I didn't have to wait a year to find out!!

regards - tom

I know the original poster has already made plans but just want to put in a good word for Nkorho since it was mentioned unfavorably above. We just returned from a fabulous two week trip and we spent two nights each in Elephant Plains and Nkorho. Both were great and each had some different strengths and weaknesses. In terms of Nkorho specifically, we did not experience the issues that gardyloo refers to. In fact, we loved the homey feeling of the lodge; it is small (only 7 rooms) which gives a very personalized feel. I have some dietary considerations to which they were extremely attentive, each meal making me a specialized entree (which I didn't ask for!) Their guide and tracker (Greg and Frank) were the best we had in Sabi Sand. Their pool was cleaner and nicer than the one at Elephant Plains. They had three little dogs running around and it really feels like a family-run operation with wonderful attention. Also felt their walkable property (for bushwalks) was much more interesting than EP's and with better birding, and there is a bit of property you can walk freely on your own, which EP doesn't really have.

The only downside we found was that most of the sightings at this time were further west (back around EP/Arathusa, and the border with Londolozi) so we spent quite a bit of time traveling BACK to that area on the game drives. But of course this is so variable, the vehicles go where the animals are! We did have several leopard sightings quite close to Nkorho including two leopards literally in their driveway as we drove out on our last day. I would absolutely return to Nkorho.

Hi folks,

It sounds like there are a lot of really experienced safari goers on this thread so I wanted to see if you can offer any advice for us. My husband has been to S Africa once before with a safari at Djuma, which he enjoyed. We are going in late August for our third anniversary and have narrowed it down to three places- &Beyond Dulini, Chitwa Chitwa, and Ulusaba. I have never been to Africa and this trip is a HUGE splurge for us. We are definitely looking for luxury. I understand that Chitwa Chitwa was renovated recently, but have read both good and bad reviews and its difficult to tell if they were before or after the renovation. I've seen posts that Chitwa Chitwa has up to 10 people on the game drives, but I can't tell if that's common practice because I believe the whole lodge only sleeps 10 people. &Beyond- Dulini of course limits the game drives to 6 people, a huge plus. Lastly, Ulusaba seems more luxurious than the other two. Would you consider that true? It is more expensive, but I haven't read a single review that wasn't absolutely RAVING about it.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. &Beyond only has one room left so we are hoping to make a decision quickly.

Thanks!

desireepratt-you have revived an old thread that will prove very helpful if even half of the previous pros on earlier comments come back with suggestions for you-hang on for a wild ride of ideas!

I love Mala Mala, and have KayeN and Napamatt to thank for so much enthuasism on my first of three trips so far, and many more in my lifetime. You can stay at Rattray's for ultimate luxury or the Main Camp which is thatched room, traditional and nice. Less per night at Main Camp and you still go to many of the same awesome sightings. Max is 6 people, but I rarely have more than four or five seatmates.

For the pangolin wishful thinkers, we scored a once in lifetime sighting last November, must have been my birthday present-can't say I even knew how rare this one hour, plus experience was until later that evening when I found out most guides never see this elusive guy. Lucky for us, it was still daylight and we have plenty of interesting shots and video. I will never expect to see one ever again, but that's Mala Mala for you. You never know what is going to happen, and sometimes you do not even have to leave camp.

In regards to the trackers that are no longer at Mala Mala, I agree with Napamatt-the viewing is so amazing that it has not really made any difference to my trips. It was nice to meet the incredible men who were sometimes third generation trackers, that I missed.

Plan to spend at least 3-4 days, preferably 5, at whatever camp you choose. Too much time is missed packing and moving around. Game drives are not to missed, and who knows when a pangolin may show up. Or a cheetah, or new leopard cubs.

Enjoy,

Thanks for your reply. Mala mala main camp and Rattray's were both unavailable for our dates. We have decided on the Exeter- Dulini (& Beyond) camp. I hope we will not be disappointed! We will be there for 4 nights, so I hope that will provide plenty of opportunity to see some great and exciting things like you have been fortunate enough to catch. Thanks again for your response.

Regards,