Congratulations Patty! I am sure you will pull this off, we all know you can work miracles when it comes to frequent flyer miles, and I will bet you are just as good at getting camps that aren't available too!
We're flying World Traveller Plus on BA - I would imagine that is the premium economy you were speaking of? We had 300,000 pts on our American Express, which I thought about transferring to Delta (but a little risky I thought as I was doing this last November for May travel), or Continental, or Air Canada. But, as it turned out, Delta said I was too late for points redemption on the flights we needed, Continental said we were too early and Air Canada doesn't go to Nairobi. So, instead we were able to cash them in for $$$ credit at any American Express Travel agency - and this is how we justified going BA World Traveller Plus -our 300,000 points translated to 3000.00 CDn off of the airline tickets. We are looking forward to travelling in those nice big seats, that's for sure!
You know, Kenya and Uganda sounds real good to me - or even Kenya and Rwanda, that way if Sand Rivers is full, you'll have quite an exciting adventure anyways! Think of all those gorillas just waiting to be photographed.
Of course your other option is to climb Kili.....

Thanks, Lynda! Me climb Kili? Oh, no way. Sounds like pure torture to me and I have a horrible fear of heights.

Yes, I was referring to World Traveller Plus. We've flown Virgin Atlantic's version of it and I found it comfortable for a 10 hour flight, wider seats with about 6 additional inches of legroom plus leg rests.

You're right, I'm sure we'll be happy wherever we end up. I'm just excited at the prospect of going back which I didn't think we'd be able to do this year

Jambo Patty,
You do only have one life, so go and enjoy now

Unless you think you'll revisit in another life as a rich princess. The problem is you could come back as a pennyless servant or worse

Can you book 2 sets of flights - 1 FF and another as a just in case Delta goes under?
I do feel for you b/c I'm trying to figure out a way to get to ? Botswana all while
I'm supposed to be doing my taxes - I just
keep drifting back to Africa even though
it's not a good time to think about it or discuss with DH. I'll spring it on him once the tax sting lessens - it's good
for them to have caring wifes.
kwaheri;
Sherry
p.s. it's raining here in RI also.

Hi, Patty

Can't think of a better way to spend "found money" than on an African safari.

You definitely want to stay at Sand Rivers. It's worth it although I read that the rates are supposed to go up drastically in May, but you might luck out and be able to book at the old rates. The lodge itself is wonderful, and game viewing is totally customized. We did not see any shared vehicles or boats.

In spite of how wonderful Selous was, I must say that Ruaha was magnificent, and the game viewing there was the best we had on the entire trip even though the area was lush with vegetation. Ruaha exceeded my expectations. We stayed at Mwagusi, which was wonderful, but not quite as wonderful as Sand Rivers. Along the way we met folks that had stayed at Beho Beho and thought that it was quite nice, too.

Leann

Hello Patti,

Am at work with little time to post but just thought I'd mention that we have booked Ruaha River Lodge at the enthusiastic advice of our travel agent (an Africa specialist) who has been there several times. The elephants hang around the riverside bandas and the guiding is apparently of a fantastic quality. There is a trip report posting here by rsnyder called "Mikumi, Ruaha, Selous Trip June 2005" and his photos are posted on Trip Advisor! (his review there is called "Ruaha River Lodge - a special place".)You won't believe the elephant photo!!! Our agent tells of an elephant grazing on the bush outside his stone banda, six inches from the open window, and listening to the stomach digesting the foliage!

We would have liked to book a stay at Sand Rivers, too but ran out of time available. Our agent advised Ruaha as the game is so much more abundant there
and not at all skittish.

Only 300 more "sleeps" and counting!!!

Asante, Sherry! The conservative side of me says to play it safe, wait out the two weeks and see what happens. I was feeling very anxious but am feeling much better now since I posted earlier.

Leann and Caroline,
Darn, now you two go and complicate things when I thought I had such clarity Seriously, thanks for your comments. I'm usually so indecisive and thought I'd settled on Selous, but now may have to consider Ruaha too.

Leann, from where did you fly to Ruaha and how long was the flight? In addition to my OCD and acrophobia I'm a bit of a claustrophobe. I especially don't do well in hot, cramped environments. I'm OK on shorter flights in small aircraft, just unsure how well I'd do on a longer one. It's something that only started to affect me in the last few years, and I have a hard time accepting it or knowing how to deal with it except to avoid putting myself in such situations. I checked Coastal's schedule today and was surprised to find it listed as 3 hour flight from Dar! :0

Patty
It was 2 hours from the Highlands lodge to Dar.I biased but having used Foxes i imagine Ruaha River Lodge would be as good as there other camps.It is on my long term list.

CONGRATS Patty! Hope your husband goes along with it! Good luck!
Dennis

Congrats, Patty! I must say I'm not at all surprised. If anyone can do this, you can.

I remember one of Dick Snyder's comments from his southern TZ trip report: that if there were some easy way to do it, his ideal E. Africa trip would be a Serengeti/Ruaha combo. (Yes, I'm paraphrasing.)

Thanks, Dennis & Leely!

dlo,
Did you book this portion of your trip directly with Foxes? If so, was your contact Jane?

We booked right through Jane.Everything was great and they get back to you super fast.If you inquire let me know the rates for Ruaha as i am trying to figure out a way to get back next year so i would be curious.

Patty,
Congratulations on the money discovery and the excellent use of smileys! I’d go to the Mara and Selous.

Patty

We flew from Arusha to Ruaha since we had been in the Serengeti first. It was a direct flight on Coastal because we were the only two passengers. I must admit I had a few concerns about the short flights within Tanzania, but I was impressed with Coastal's planes and pilots. The planes accommodated 12 passengers and looked new and in good condition, and the pilots seemed very professional. The flight from Arusha was the only time the luggage was weighed. Our bags were a little overweight; and while they didn't charge us per se because we were the only two passengers, the ticket agent did ask us for a "little something for the boys." We gave him $5 and he seemed satisfied. For the rest of the flights we took off from dirt airstrips where there were no scales.

Our last flight was from Selous to Dar on Zanair. I think it took about 1 hour and 45 minutes, and the plane was full. All in all, I was not as pleased with Zanair as I was with Coastal. If Coastal is listing that flight as 3 hours, perhaps they make some stops along the way.

Caroline is right that there is abundant game in Ruaha, and it is not skittish. I was very surprised that the animals there seemed more relaxed and less skittish than they were in the Seregenti. And the guides were superb.

We paid about $310 pp/pn for Mwagusi and about $430 for Sand Rivers.

I would really try to do both of these parks if you can. It took me eight years go finally get to southern Tanzania, and I was not disappointed. My only regret was that I couldn't stay longer.

Leann

Nyamera,
Thanks, I'm glad you approve of my smiley use

dlo,
So far the rates that I've gotten for October from Foxes Safaris are -

Ruaha River Lodge $245pppn
Selous Safari Camp $465pppn

Flights (one way)
Dar-Selous $130pp
Selous-Ruaha $270pp
Ruaha-Dar $300pp

I've also been corresponding with Jane. Is it OK if I email you with some questions?

Leann,
Thanks for your additional comments. Those seem like very good rates for Mwagusi and Sand Rivers, particularly in comparison with the rates that I've gotten for Ruaha River Lodge and Selous Safari Camp. Did you book everything through ATR? From your other posts, it sounds like you weren't happy with MKSC and ATR's promotion of their camps. Would you personally use ATR again or recommend them as an agent for a southern Tanzania booking? Thanks.

Patty

On the positive side for ATR I should say that Lenny who did our itinerary quite willing to keep revising it until it was workable for us. He responded very quickly to emails and even called me from London a few times. On one occasion I spent about an hour on the phone talking to him.

I was also quite pleased with the thoroughness of the itinerary ATR prepared and the detailed pricing of each hotel, flight, etc. And, of course, our safari went very smoothly.

What I wasn't pleased with was the TMKS vehicle and guide and the promotion of their preferred camps. Having said that, yes, I would recommend them, but be prepared to request a vehicle in good condition (if they have any) and an enthusiastic guide. Our guide's name, by the way, was Simon; and while he was pleasant and a competent driver, he seemed disinterested in being a guide. Once while we were watching a leopard off in the distance, he made a call on his cell phone!

Leann

Patty-
Did you read RuthieC's report by any chance? (I'm sure you have, but, just in case....)
There is quite the discussion on Foxes after her report, even includes some correspondence from Jane!
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34489525

Patty
Thanks for the rates.My email is olemzungu@yahoo.ca.I'm trying to figure out a way to do a cheap safari next year so i amy have some questions on Kenya for you,if thats ok.

Hope it works Patty with no April Fools.
All of the other comments have been educational.

Patty: two more things to consider:

1) Selous or Rouaha PLUS Mahale

2) Adopting me!

Patty, what fantastic news!!!
Crossing my fingers for you

Patty:
I am happy for you but also jealous of you. Great job "finding" money. How did you rack up so many points so quickly? Any tips that you can share? I suppose that having family "obligations" in Hawaii helps get some points. Unfortunately my family obligations are within driving distance.

I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Best of luck, Patty!

Cheers,
Julian

Lynn,
I'm hoping that it's no April Fools either! I realized the ironic timing of my post

Sharon,
I don't need any more considerations, thanks. My head is spinning enough already

BostonGal & Julian,
Thanks for wishing me luck!

bat,
Do you really want to know? Here's my secret but it's really no secret - some of the miles are from flying, some of the miles are from credit card use, the rest of it is from various promotions that I pick up through Flyertalk. I also don't mind paying a reasonable amount of $ to accumulate miles when I think it's a good value. I read the Miles Buzz and Delta boards at FT religiously. There always seems to be some opportunity around the corner but sometimes you have to be really quick (here's where my OCD pays off). Here are just a few examples from the last two years that have helped me accumulate enough miles for 3 sets of business class tickets to Africa (Rocco probably just needs to shop for dog food in order to have enough miles, but I need to work for mine ) -

Delta ran an online game that gave each participant 10K miles for free. All it took was 2-3 min to play, but the game was only available for about 36 hours before they pulled it. So that was 10K each for me and Mark plus a long list of relatives

Intercontinental hotels offered a promotional Ambassador membership for $125 which included 26,250 miles plus a buy one get one free certificate good at Intercontinental properties plus a few other little assorted goodies.

Chase was offering 3K miles for every $10K of home equity line of credit for new accounts last year. There was no up front cost to open the line with the only stipulation being that you had to take a full draw at closing in order to get the miles, so my only cost was a few days interest plus the wire fee repay the initial draw to Chase. It was relatively painless and quick, I applied over the phone, sent in some minimal documentation, in about two weeks they sent a notary to my home for the closing, and funded 3 days later.

Last December, I applied for a new Platinum Delta Skymiles Amex which offered 50K miles upon first use for an annual fee of $135. This card also gives another bonus of 25K miles if I charge at least $25K within the first year of card membership.

Right now, I'm thinking of paying my taxes with the same card as there's a double miles promo and paying my taxes will also put me over the $25K spend threshold. There's a 2.5% convenience fee for doing so, but I think it's worth it the double miles plus extra 25K. I'm going to wait until outcome of the arbitration first.

Do you want me to let you know next time I come across something?

Can I hire you and give you a % for doing this for me?
Sherry

Sorry, Sherry but I'd want it all $)

Yes Patty! Let us know the next deal!

Patty:

Yes, I really wanted to know and thanks for the tips, ditto what sherry proposed, and same with Dennis (please).

I am going to have to be more aggressive about this. Dare I confess this? We stayed in 2 different hotels this past weekend and did not put in for frequent flyer miles. [Time-out while I look for the sheepish smiley]
And here it is

bat,
All I can say is

OK, I'll be sure to keep you guys posted if I find come across any good mileage earning opportunities. I mainly follow Delta/Amex stuff, so if you participate in other programs, you should check out the respective boards at Flyertalk cause I don't pay too much attention to other programs.

thanks patty--well at least I gave you an opportunity to post a new smiley.

Patty, "found" money should always be spent on a trip to Africa! I sure hope you get to go!

Thanks for the tips on Delta FF miles. I look forward to hearing when to get the good deals. This year is my 5th trip and only the second time I've had to pay for a ticket (3 were Delta ff's). This year it's x4 tickets ($$$) PLUS we don't get FF miles on Delta since Delta/SAA are breaking up. Someone said I might be able to get United miles for this trip but I've never flown United before. I referred about 10 people to Premier Travel and they all bought tickets (total appx $35000). I think they need to start a frequent referral club and give me (and everyone else that refers them) a discounted ticket!

Good luck with your trip planning!

patty:
re acccommodations in Selous-I have been researching for a potential 07 trip and some sources are recommending Selous Safari Camp over Sand River (I had been set on Sand River also, particularly because of the strong impression they made on me this past trip)--but SSC does look good.
Here is a travel agency site that has some comparisons.

http://www.tanzania-web.com/all_lodges_-_video_prices_pictures_and_links/all_lodges.htm

Thanks, bat I'll take a look at that link. Do you know if all Nomad camps offer game drives on a private basis per party? That was one of the reasons that swayed me toward Sand Rivers. Given that there isn't a big difference in price (I think) between the two, Sand Rivers seems like a better "value" if that's true. I sent an email to Nomad yesterday to confirm and am waiting to hear back. I know there was a post here awhile back stating that you could get private game drives at SSC without extra cost, but when I emailed SSC about this, they told me that's not correct.

OK I read some of their comments. I actually don't mind places that are a little frayed around the edges. I generally find that endearing, though I realize there's a fine line between one person's idea of endearing and another person's idea of run down I tend to find places that are new and crisp a bit sterile (but I like my airplane interiors that way ). I'm taking a serious look at Mwagusi too for the same reason.

That site's very helpful BTW.

Patty, I like to think of "frayed around the edges" as shabby chic.

Sounds like this trip is really going to happen!

And not just any trip, I'd say a dang nice one!

If it wasn't for the darn Delta situation, I'd be holding tickets already. How inconsiderate of them

Shabby chic is the perfect description. Hopefully more chic than shabby

Patty:
I do not believe that the Sand River game drives are private. My understanding is that the southern camps --which are fly-in primarily, operate along the lines of the southern Africa camp system i.e. fly-in, go on shared game drives. The ability to drive from place to place in the North makes it suitable for the private safari with a single guide. I believe that Mahale is shared. Not sure about Chada in Katavi.

I will be interested in what Nomad tells you.

BTW, did you look at the SSC private camp? Only 4 tents. I am not trying to talk you into SSC over Sand River--I am still leaning to Sand River myself--but the SSC private camp does look good. I think that the website I gave you indicated that it is $50pppn more.

http://www.selous.com/sprivoverview.htm

Really? That sort of changes the equation then. I thought Leann had mentioned that there were no shared drives. Then again someone else had mentioned something similar for SSC.

Haven't heard back from Nomad. Is there another email address that I can use other than info@nomad.co.tz to get a quicker response?

Here are the rates SSC sent me for the main and private camps (and also for Jongomero)-

SSC main $380pppn low/$465pppn high
SSC private $$430pppn low/$515pppn high + $200pppn for exclusive activities (I assume this is optional)

Jongmero $345pppn low/$410pppn high

I've included the daily reserve fees and high season dates are Jul 15-Oct 31 and Dec 15-Jan 7. They're open from Jun 1-Mar 12.

Well maybe (hopefully)I am wrong.

BTW, that is the only Nomad email I know of.

Hmm so if we go in June we would be going before high season--could save some money but I wonder what that means in terms of game viewing. SSC did not happen to mention whether they have a "shoulder season" price range and/or whether they have a "long stay" discount, did they? [they own Ras Kutani so I thought we might consider all 3]

Since SSC does not book directly did they give you a list of U.S. agents with whom they deal?

Hi

Just to confirm my experience at Sand Rivers in January. Yes, the southern Tanzania camps do operate along the lines of Southern Africa. However,during our stay of three nights/4days, we never saw more than two people in a boat or on a Land Rover, and the camp was full for most of the time we were there. Everything was totally customized. We asked our guide David to take us to the hot springs, and he gladly did. We also asked him if we could do a sundowner with our favorite whisky on our last game drive, and again he was quite willing to do so and picked a stunning spot for it.

I, too, found it a tough decision whether to go with Sand Rivers or SSC. SSC looks a little fancier, but the total experience at Sand Rivers was superb.

By the way, which camp is being described as "frayed around the edges?"

Leann

Thanks, Leann. It was Sand Rivers and Mwagusi that were described as being a little "frayed around the edges". Those are my words, but that's the impression that I got. See the link that bat posted above for their exact wording.

bat,
I didn't see a shoulder season price for SSC and Jongomero. It was just listed as the nightly rate plus a high season supplement for those dates. I didn't notice any long stay discounts but I haven't had time to read through it that carefully either. They didn't send me a list of agents as I only asked for their rate sheet (Ras Kutani is in there too). I'd be glad to forward it to you if you let me know your email.

Thanks leann for the clarification--when you say "our guide"-I take it that you had the same guide throughout your stay.

Thanks patty-please send to barbatt at gmail dot com (I noticed that some people spell out emails this way--is it an anti-spam protective device?)

Just sent it over to you. Yes, that's why I spelled mine out.

Patty

Somehow I always manage to click on "post my reply" when I mean to click on "edit." Here's the edited version.

I would agree that Mwagusi is perhaps a little frayed around the edges (my term is "more rustic"), definitely not as luxurious as Jongomero appears to be in its photos. Nonetheless, the Mwagusi guides were excellent and were not shy about going off-road and getting up close and personal with the game. They even took us on a non-scheduled game drive. We were doing a bird walk before breakfast when a nearby pride of lions had killed a wildebeest only minutes before. As quickly as possible, we were in the vehicle and off to view the lions.

I thought the management as Mwagusi, while friendly, lacked a bit of enthusiasm. Meals were usually served at two long tables; however, we were told where to sit. It was the first time I had ever experienced this at a safari camp and would have preferred to choose my own seat and dinner companions. Just more more bit of info, drinks were not included here.

Bat

Back to Sand Rivers, yes, we did have the same guide for the entire time as did everyone else.

Regarding management and meals at Sand Rivers, I preferred both over Mwagusi. Management was much more personable and enthusiastic. Ross had just come from South Luangwa where he worked at the Robin Pope camps. He and I actually knew some of the same guides and had a great time talking about Zambia.

Meals at Sand Rivers besides being delicious were slightly more informal. We did not eat lunch as a group. We just helped ourselves to the buffet whenever it was convenient. For dinner, instead of going through a buffet line, the dishes were brought to the table to each one of us so we could serve ourselves. Drinks were included here.

Leann

Leann:
Did the guides eat with the guests at Sand River?--they do at the seasonal camps.

Bat

No, the guides did not eat with the guests at either Mwagusi or Sand Rivers. At Sand Rivers they chatted with us at the beginning of the cocktail hour and at tea time, mainly to plan our next game viewing activity.

We also stayed at the Nomad camp near Ndutu. It was listed as Masek Camp on itinerary, and I don't know whether you would call it a flycamp, mobile camp or seasonal camp. The guides at this camp likewise chatted with us during the cocktail hour but did not join us for dinner.

Leann

Leann:
That's interesting re the Ndutu (Masek) camp. They ate with us there--but the camp was not full so that is maybe why--but now that I think about it they ate with us at Loliondo also--even the night the camp was full.

BTW, I was looking for a trip report but did not see one--is one in the offing perchance? You know how lynda likes to keep the index current

Bat

My memory is failing me already! The guides at Masek did eat with the guests although they didn't always sit with the people they were guiding. They usually took whatever places were available after the guests were seated.

Sorry to say that I haven't posted a trip report yet but will try to do it soon.

Leann

Leann:
If you think about it you have quite abit of your TZ report done--do some cutting and pasting of what you have been adding lately (very, very useful info), add a little here and a little there, and voila (is there a kiswahili word that captures the same idea?) you are done!

patty:
I saw on a different post that you have booked your flights. Even though the itinerary is not set, can you give us an update? {Particularly for those of us who do not have a trip forthcoming--at least yet.)

Aloha bat,
We leave LAX Nov 28 and get into NBO the evening of Nov 29. Flying out of DAR the evening of Dec 16. My tour op has confirmed availability at Sand Rivers for 3 nights starting Dec 13. That's all I have planned so far

In Kenya, I plan to visit Meru, Shaba, and Samburu and maybe a horseback safari around the Mt Kenya/Aberdares region. I've also confirmed that we can have "our guide" in Kenya provided we can finish our safari in time so that he can drive up to Meru on Dec 11th to pick up Paul (kimburu) and his wife from Elsa's Kopje.

I'm going to work on the rest of our itinerary when we get back to LA but wanted to at least get my flights ticketed and Sand Rivers confirmed.

For those who have stayed at Sand Rivers, is there any particular cottage location that I should request?

excellent! Is your Kenyan tour op doing the TZ part as well?

Patty, I am SO jealous. What's your air routing, if I may ask?

Patty...Do you know something about our guide that I don't? And how am I going to get your trip report before I go? Can you write it up and leave it in the van?

bat,
Yes, I'm having my Kenyan tour op book the Tanzania portion too.

Leely,
We're flying LAX-ATL-AMS-NBO and returning DAR-AMS-YVR-LAX. The return via YVR (on KLM) was the best I could do for now. We have an 8 hour layover at AMS before boarding the flight for YVR, but I have other flights waitlisted and think that I should be able to change it to a better routing/connection between now and Dec.

Paul,
Serah hasn't told you? I guess that means she's commited Julius to your safari. Maybe I should end ours in Meru and I can give you the whole spiel then

Patty-
Do you have a layover in YVR? I'm 5 min from the airport I could zip down for a coffee with you guys!
Lynda (actually you will fly right over top of our house, we are that close)

Hi Patty-

I was looking at flickr recently and came across a bunch of photos of Sand River...btw flickr is a great source for finding candid(real) pictures of lodges and camps.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ulal/100928937/in/set-72057594065907929/

No Serah has not mentioned it at all. Good news, especially since Julius will be right up to date with where all the animals are having just taken you guys around. And yes, finish at Elsa's ... that would be great - but did you ask for a particular room? If so what's the bet we asked for the same one! But will it work out logistically? I mean, wouldn't Julius want a day or two off between trips? Or are you using the lodge transport at Elsa's?

Lynda,
I'd love to meet for coffee if our routing stays the same (we're also waitlisted for AMS-ATL-LAX). As of now, we arrive YVR at 4:30pm and depart at 7:15pm. I'll keep you posted.

cruisinred,
Thanks for the link!

Paul,
Consider yourself unofficially notified I didn't request any specific room at Elsa's, should I? We'll be using camp vehicles for our game drives there so I don't think there would be any logistical problems with ending our trip in Meru. Our order will be dependent on whether we do the riding safari or not. If we do, I think we'd fly to Meru first and work our way down (don't want to go riding when I'm all jet lagged). Julius can drop us off for the riding safari and head back to Nairobi at that point. I still have to ask Serah how many days break he needs between trips.

BTW I've been looking at flight schedules to get from Nairobi to Selous and I think I have the following choices -

Dec 12 NBO-DAR 1:15pm-2:30pm (overnight DAR)
Dec 13 DAR-Selous 8:30am-9:15am

OR

Dec 13 NBO-DAR 7:55am-9:10am
Dec 13 DAR-Selous 2:30pm-3:15pm

I was hoping to take a late afternoon/early evening NBO-DAR flight on the 12th, so I could spend most of the day shopping in Nairobi but it appears that there are no later nonstop flights on Tuesdays. I could fly out of NBO later in the day and connect in Zanzibar or elsewhere but don't think I want to do that.

Given the above choices, which do you think I should go with? Or perhaps someone could come up with another, more efficient option (keeping in mind that I'd want as direct of a routing as possible).

Also not sure what I could do in Dar for 5.5 hours with the second option. Anyone have ideas?

Thanks for notification Patty. There's no special reason I know of for requesting specific rooms at Elsa's - but I know you often do request rooms and I actually did this time, although I was unable to identify a number (I sent a photo!!). This is to do with my wife wanting to go to Borana on teh basis of a photo on the AfricanMecca Safaris web site and a description in the Fieldings Guide. I really wanted to visit Meru and so I showed her a picture of one of the rooms at Elsa's. She agreed we could do Meru instead if she could have THAT specific room or its twin. Since I suspect there is only one room that looks exactly like that, and I do not have a number for it, if you do Elsa's last (although I am sure you are right about not doing the horse riding right off the plane!)the first time you see me could yet be bouncing off a rock and disappearing into the bushes at the foot of Elsa's Kopje

By the way are you thinking of doing the riding at Sangare Ranch? I noticed it was included in the price, which is pretty cool if you are a rider.

Paul,
Now I really want to know which picture you showed her. I don't think that the place formerly known as Sangare offers multi day riding safaris, so I think we'll either arrange it through Petra at Olea Africana or Tharua Safaris which conducts them on Ol Pejeta ranch.

Anybody have an opinion on the flight options or what to do for a few hours in Dar? I looked through the old Dar threads here and they didn't look very promising. Most of them seem to say "there's nothing to see in Dar"

Does anyone know the cost of a one way charter between Dar and Selous?

Last time I checked it was at least $1300 for a 5-seater Dar-Selous-Dar. You must pay the return fare.

Scheduled flights with Coastal, etc are about $130 one way.

Thanks, Eben! I thought it'd be around that.

Patty:

What is the situation with the airports? ie arrival airport from Nairobi, departing airport for Selous? How much transportation time between them?

No personal knowledge but with option 2--perhaps an early lunch at the Sea Cliff? shoppping at Sea Cliff Village?

Sand River is a kind of splurge end to your trip, yes? Perhaps you want to give up the extra time in Nairobi for the earlier arrival at Sand River.

bat,
I'm unsure of the airport situation in Dar Es Salaam. I thought that intl and domestic flights operated out of the same airport but from different terminals (unlike in Nairobi where there are separate airports), but I could be wrong. You flew Zanzibar-DAR-AMS, right? If so, what airline did you use from Zanzibar and did you have to change airports to connect your KLM flight?

Is the Sea Cliff a hotel? Do you know what kind of shops are there? I've also heard of a shopping center called Slipway. Did you spend any time in Dar? Coming home, we're going to fly Selous-DAR and DAR-AMS on the same day and get a day room in Dar between flights.

Looking at the schedules for DAR-Selous/Selous-DAR, I was originally going to do a morning departure/morning return or afternoon departure/afternoon return giving me approx the same amount of time at Sand Rivers with either option. Are you saying I should do morning departure/afternoon return to maximize my time? I'd have to find out the extra cost for this (I assume there's a fee for staying later?).

On another topic, have you come across this bat? http://www.bolin-web.com/2005/09/mahale-and-lake-tanganyika.html

Well, duh! I guess I should know the answer about the airport(s) because you are correct that we flew into Dar from Zanzibar and then flew out on KLM. It sure felt like two different airports--walked directly from the puddlehopper onto the tarmac to a terminal with no shops visible vs large two story ceilinged terminal with quite a few shops, walk through typical covered gateway to the plane--but maybe it was two different terminals--or maybe even a domestic end of the same terminal.

We arrived from Zanzibar around 6pm and I was mainly focused on whether we would have transport because I had pre-paid cash to our driver in Zanzibar at the last moment. We then drove to the Holiday Inn for a day room (really an evening room at that point) and then drove to the airport for the KLM flight after a shower and dinner.

Sea Cliff is a hotel and Sea Cliff "Village" is an area of retail shops by it. I don't know if it makes sense for a 5.5 hour layover. I remember that traffic was pretty congested on our way into the Holiday Inn from the airport.

http://www.hotelseacliff.com/

Yes, I had in mind an early arrival and late departure from Sand River. If you were out of the room, they might only charge you for the extra lunch.

I had not seen the Mahale blog. Thanks.

Patty - Thanks for that blog link. Great family trip report to Mahale.

If you stay later at Sand River for the afternoon flight, you'll be charged extra for the lunch, but I'm not sure whether you'll be entitled to any activities. If not, you may want to pass, but then it might just be worth it to "chill" (with early sundowners) before heading to DAR and the homebound flight.

Thanks for the link to the Mahale and Lake Tanganyika blog. Now the snake... that makes me a little leary of the water. Glad it's at the end of our trip to relax and unwind.

BTW that blog has more Tanzania entries that just the Mahale one. If you look through the archives, you'll find entries on their Kili climb, Ngorongoro and the Serengeti.

bat,
How was the Holiday Inn? Did you have dinner at the hotel? How long was the drive to/from the airport?

Paul,
You're just going to keep that room a secret from me, aren't you?

Patty:
Sorry, I can't remember how long the drive was--stopped taking notes at that point! Traffic was not bad at that time of night. Holiday Inn was fine, room nothing special--we ate in the bar at the restaurant (same menu)--food was asian influenced. More distinctive was the music--US rock oldie-goldies!

I would check out the Kempinski though. If I had alot of day time, I might look at the Sea Cliff because of the water view.

The snake in the water at Mahale spooked me too--plus the description of the chimp hunting behavior.

Patty

We flew from Sand River to Dar and stayed at the Kempinski in late January, and I would highly recommend it. If you go to the Kempinski website and then look for the Kili rates, there is usually a bargain rate. Last time I checked it was $150 per room per night including a fabulous breakfast.

Leann

I just had to pop in ... wow that blog was cool and now I want to go to Mahale even more, if that's possible! Cheers all.... 23 days to Zambia...........

I would go with safarilover's rec.

great blog, mahale sounds nice, but sounds like if you see the chimps on the first day, you don't get to go back again? just fish or lay around for the next 3 days? sorry patty this has taken over your thread....

Your question about how many times you can view the chimps sent me surfing the net. Will ask ATR if there is a limit, but did find information / link to Thomson's document that is to be signed for Mahale visits. It did state in the notes that you might see chimps at least one time in 3-4 day stay - so maybe there's not a limit. Wonder if that family just didn't want to hike and it was the fishing that kept their attention.

Here's the link: http://www.hmnh.harvard.edu/travel/pdf/Mahale%20Expectations.pdf#search='mahale%20and%20chimp%20viewing'

it's not a secret from you... ANYbody could be looking

... it's on the C&P Web site but the interior appears only in the More Pictures section.. raised bed.

By the way "the place formerly known as Sangare" is it's official name now... Serah told me the "Livingstone's" people pulled out and future plans are unknown...

Back to planning again....

I just realised ANYTHING could happen now! Three free nights between Samburu and Sweetwaters...

Will I stick with Aberdare NP? I think so but..... hmmmmm

Paul,
Really? Serah hadn't mentioned it to me since I'd pretty much dropped it from my itinerary. I thought you were staying at ACC those nights? Did you switch? Off to the C&P site to find "your room"

Dennis,
I seem to recall mention of at least two chimp treks on the Flycatcher camps site. I don't know if it's the same for the Nomad camp.

Sorry Patty for so much on Mahale on your post. ATR advised you can go chimp trekking every day you're there or stay in camp and do other activities.

No problem. I started it

Yes Patty, we had switched there. ACC was only ever a standby so that if I spent a long time getting something more exotic organised and it fell through we'd still have somewhere to stay and a good base for exploring Aberdare NP. It's good to have it on hand and I've now got two or three months to see if I can come up with anything else for those three days, with the luxury of a backup plan that won't fall through.

By the way, how's your itinerary looking now or is there still quite a bit up in the air?

My itinerary is still a bit up in the air. Meru, Shaba & Samburu are definites. I originally wanted to include Kitich or Sarara camp, but neither will re-open in time for us. Serah suggested Borana, but if we're going to Laikipia, I may just stay at El Karama again. The cost difference between Borana and El Karama is substantial and Borana was never on my wish list to begin with.

I'm thinking about taking the money we save by staying at El Karama and upgrading to Joy's Camp in Shaba. I haven't asked for the cost yet, but I think this will be somewhere in the neighborhood of an additional $200pppn.

I have to fight hard not to Rocco-ize my entire trip but I definitely need a couple of cheaper places in there to balance the others and my splurge at the end.

The plan right now is to do the above combination first. Julius will drop us off somewhere in the Aberdares/Mt Kenya region on Dec 8 and he can head back to Nairobi that afternoon.

So we won't be crossing paths unless we fly over you or something - not even in Nairobi, I guess. Well, remember to leave the trip report notes with Julius!!!

Joy's Camp sounds like a good idea and has crossed my mind more than once. However, you are already looking at Larsen's, Elsa's and something plush in Tanzania and.... hmmmmm I am realising this argument could go either way couldn't it? Depends on exactly how much less you owed the IRS than you thought, I guess ... remember the next trip!

By the way I just stayed at a fantastic place in Chiang Rai in northern Thailand but I guess those plans are off indefinitely now, right?

Chiang where?

"remember the next trip!"

I'm not that much of a forward thinker

"I am realising this argument could go either way couldn't it?"

Yep, reverse your thinking. The idea of staying at the Sarova lodge in between Larsens and Elsa's isn't sitting well with me right now

Go for it Patty... I'm sure Mark understood that "Don't worry, we'll slot some budget places in-between to keep costs down" really meant "We'll actually be slipping in even more exclusive places along the way, but we'll keep the cost of the horse riding reasonable and I won't charter a private jet unless it would mean missing a afternoon's game viewing if we didn't."

I still have a few more details to finalize, but the basic itinerary is worked out and accomodation space has been confirmed.

Nov 29 - arrive Nairobi in the evening/overnight Hilton
Nov 30/Dec 1 - El Karama/Laikipia
Dec 2/3 - Larsens/Samburu
Dec 4/5 - Joy's Camp/Shaba
Dec 6/7 - Elsa's Kopje/Meru
Dec 8/9/10 - Olea Africana/near Aberdares
Dec 11/12 - Hilton/Nairobi
Dec 13/14/15 - Sand Rivers/Selous
Dec 16 - day room in Dar and fly home early morning Dec 17

We stayed at El Karama and Olea Africana last year and are going back to focus more on horse riding in these areas. The rest are new locations for us. We decided to take the morning Nairobi-Dar flight and afternoon Dar-Selous flight on December 13 and will have a few hours to wander around Dar. I also have a full day in Nairobi on the 12th to sightsee and shop.

Now I just have to figure out what to do with myself for the next 6 months!

Awesome itinerary. Color me jealous (again).

probably rack up ff miles for a rapid turnaround trip

sounds like a great trip.
I'm with leely, color me

Patty,
you probably know this already, Dec 12 is Jamhuri Day, independence day. I don't know if the shops close, but it is a big holiday in Kenya. i think there is even a parade.

No, I didn't realize that. Are you saying it's going to mess with my shopping plans? Darn

Guess what? I couldn't help but inquire about the cost of a charter flight from Dar to Selous (the arrangements for that day were still bugging me). My tour operator came back this morning with a quote for $722 one way. That's a lot better than what I thought it was going to be. I still need to reconfirm a few things like I didn't misread the quote or something and we can do charter one way/scheduled flight back, but unless my understanding is drastically different from what they meant, I think we're going with it.

Taking into account the cost of two seats on a scheduled flight, a car to pick us at the airport and drive us around Dar for half the day and back to the airport, and considering how much I can spend shopping in those hours, I actually think we'll SAVE money by chartering (or at least that's how I pitched it to Mark).

Everyone feel free to add your comments to help me rationlize the cost, remember only pro-charter comments please

Sounds perfectly logical to me.

How much was the scheduled flight costing out at? (For my files, because you've already determined what is most cost-effective for you and Mark)

I was quoted $275 per person for roundtrip scheduled flights Dar-Selous/Selous Dar.

Patty:
Plus you will be getting more for your $$ at Sand River. Plus it is the end of the trip.

Update - everything's set and we're going with the charter.

Cost of our trip in case anyone's interested (I sort of tossed the budget out the window this time but I'm still not in Rocco territory yet )-

2 business class tickets LAX-NBO/DAR-LAX = 240,000 Delta Skymiles

3 nights Hilton Nairobi = 30,000 HHonors points (got my ressies in just before the June 1 point increase)

8 night safari starting from El Karama to drop off at Olea Africana including arrival/departure airport transfers = $5248 for the two of us.

3 nights Olea Africana (booked direct with Petra, we won't have a vehicle here), 2 days riding and one way transfer back to Nairobi = 610 euros for two (see, I was able to keep this part really reasonable )

Day use of vehicle in Nairobi on Dec 12 = $110

3 nights at Sand Rivers including one way charter flight and return scheduled flight = $3726 for two

Left to add are two tickets from NBO to DAR which have just gone up about $40 each as of today, oops, and a day room in Dar which I'll probably redeem Priority Club points for the Holiday Inn.

Over the weekend, I was able to change my outbound flight from a departure at 6:00am to one at 7:20am. Leaving the house at 5:00am is better than 3:30am I was initially dreading the phone call to get our tickets reissued thinking they'd only have newbies working on a holiday weekend but I got a GREAT agent at partner awards. While our tickets were being reissued and without me asking, she said that she could change my return from DAR-AMS-YVR-LAX to DAR-AMS-JFK-LAX if we actly quickly (I had checked myself just minutes earlier so this literally became available as I was on the phone) and I said perfect! So now we've eliminated our original 8 hour layover at AMS and can get home several hours earlier. The best part is since I was getting a waitlisted flight reissued on the outbound, they decided not to charge me anything for the return changes (which weren't originally waitlisted) so it ended up costing me nothing!

I'm only sorry that we won't be able to meet up with Lynda on our way back.