Go2Maui

My husband and I will be traveling with three other people between the ages of 40 - 72 to Cape Town, Sabi Sabi, Victoria Falls and Chobe National Park in September, 2010. We like luxury accommodations and love to get a good deal (i.e. - stay 4 nights and pay for 3). I doubt if we'll be able to return to South Africa again so we are trying to fit in as much as possible within reason. We have a budget of about $6,000 per person before airfare. I would love any feedback or suggestions:

Capetown - 4 nights
Accommodations: An African Villa or Four Rosmead
Activities: Boulders Beach (penguins), Hermanus (whales), Baboon Matters, Simons Town, day trip to Franchoek/Stellenbosch, Robben Island, Table Mountain, Cape Point (would also love to see great whites but not in a diving cage).

Victoria Falls - 2 nights
Victoria Falls Hotel or Royal Livingstone Hotel
Activities: Please suggest something besides the Falls

Sabi Sabi - 4 nights
Ivory Sands or Londolozi or Mala Mala (Ivory Sands is our first choice but may be too expensive).

Chobe National Park
Chobe Chilwero Lodge or Chobe Game Lodge
Activities: Elephant Back Safari, River Cruise

Is the itinerary/accommodations reasonable or too ambitious? I appreciate any feedback - thanks!

Safari_Craig

go2maui,

this is a great itinerary and really hits two amazing safari destinations during their peak season. BUT, i would rearrange the order to minimize travel time, connections, and save money. can you start traveling the last few days of august? it would save you a bunch of money and i'll tell you why later.

first of all, i would go strait to the sabi sands on arrival. if you take an overnight from europe or the direct flight from jfk on SAA you can land in JNB in the morning and go immediately to lion sands ivory lodge. i have been to lion sands twice and it is fantastic BUT i also love malamala... the JNB-AAM flight on SAA Airlink lands 25 minutes from Lion Sands and is very convenient.
ivory lodge rates always go up on september 1, so if you go the last three days of august you get a better rate: http://www.lionsands.com/lodges/rates.php

after safari, road transfer to nelspruit and take the direct flight on SAA from MQP-CPT. on arrival, the hotels you chose are fine but the schedule is aggressive so consider one more night. hermanus will be a full day trip and so will the wine lands visit. skip baboons - they are nasyy creatures and quite aggressive in the western cape.

after cape town, you can either fly to JNB late and overnight or leave CPT on a 600am flight that will arrive in JNB in time for the flight to victoria falls.

i would not go to livingstone, zambia in september. depending on rainfall, there is 95% historic probability that there will be NO water flowing over the zambia side in september. go to the vic falls hotel. two nights is plenty. you can book many activities on arrival or for a slight surcharge you can book them ahead of time.

from the VF hotel you can road transfer to the chobe (about 2 hour drive to a lodge inside the park). consider chobe chilwero for luxury or chobe game lodge is fine too. maybe take a short charter flight to the savute area. chilwero has stay3pay2 but it is not valid for 2010. you cannot do elephant back at CGL or Chilwero but you can do it at Vic Falls if you want. you need to go to stanley's camp or abu for elephant back safaris.

from chobe, go back to kasane and fly home via JNB.

good luck. i saw somewhere else you were considering Africa Adventure Company to book all this. I recommend them. They are a competitor of mine.

Craig Beal

cary999

Even if the flight into JNB is scheduled to arrive early so I can transfer same day to safari camp, I do not like to do that. Staying on arrival overnight at JNB, a hotel close to JNB, gives me a little cushion of time should a flight go wrong. And some hours to relax/sleep on a bed after many hours from home USA. If something doesn't match up coming in and you miss that first night at Ivory Lodge, you have just tossed away $1,500 or more. Not to mention a lost day on safari. Worth the extra day and $100 room to me to arrive day early.

regards - tom

Safari_Craig

i agree with tom. but, given that i sensed your itinerary was time rushed, i offered the no-stopover as a suggestion.

tom's method is certainly superior!

craig beal

Go2Maui

Hi Craig and Tom,

Thank you both for your feedback - I know that both of you provide such great information on these forums.

Craig - we won't be able to begin travel at the end of August since one of the members is already committed to something else during that time. The reason why I'm planning Sabi Sands to be the last stop is because I want to save the best for last, so to speak! However, I can certainly change that since your suggestion makes more sense. What do you like best about Lion Sands vs. Mala Mala? I should mention that we prefer it to be nice and quiet so we would rather stay at a place that doesn't have kids. Thanks for your advice about staying at Victoria Falls Hotel - we'll go on an elephant safari there!

Tom - that's a good idea about staying one night in JNB since we can be flexible in terms of the length of our trip. I'd sure hate to lost one night of lodging in Sabi Sands if the flight is delayed! I thought 12 nights total for the entire trip would be good but we can be flexible. What's a good hotel at JNB?

Lisey

P.S. - this forum is great!

Safari_Craig

lisey,

lions sands ivory lodge is very focused on the luxury aspect: food is perfect, linens, china, stem ware, wine lists, HGUGE luxurious modern style rooms, etc. they also have great game to go along with it.

malamala chooses to focus on pretty much just amazing game viewing. it is three times larger than lion sands. but, the food is from a buffet and the alcohol is ala carte. many like it this way. with the size of the land, malamala has better liklihood of seeing big five every day.

both are amazing and different. of course, rattrays at malamala is on par with the best in luxury and no kids will be there. especially in september. sable camp does not allow kids. only main camp caters and encourages kids.

craig beal

cary999

Lisey - JNB hotels. I have stayed at-
InterContinental OR Tambo Airport, the closest hotel to JNB, just cross the street from international arrivals, you walk over, 1 minute. Expensive $400. https://www.southernsun.com/SSH/VHB/...14acRCRD/80/48

Southern Sun OR Tambo, short 5 min free shuttle ride, $150-$200 https://www.southernsun.com/SSH/VHB/...14acRCRD/14/47

Emperors Palace Complex, four hotels, 10 min free shuttle ride from JNB, rates $70-$300, http://www.emperorspalace.com/hotels/ We will be staying there on arrival at JNB Aug 30 Peermont, weekend special $70.

regards - tom
32 days until safari

Go2Maui

Craig and Tom,

Thank you both so much again.

Craig - Lion Sands sounds amazing! I heard the food there is better than Mala Mala, but the prices are higher also. How does Londolozi compare to Lion Sands and Mala Mala?

Tom - thanks for the JNB hotel info. I like your weekend special for $70! Have a great trip - where are you going and staying?

Lisey

cary999

Lisey - Leaving California Aug 28, overnight JNB, next day get Avis car and self drive in Kruger 7 nights, drive to Kings Camp leave car with Avis, 8 nights KC, then Kirkmans Kamp 5 nights. Fly from Kirkmans back to JNB. Third time in Kruger - great fun, 4th time at Kings, and 1st time at Kirkmans. Did similar trip in 2007 which included my sister, my Fodors report at - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35083850

Are you from USA? If so, you know flying to Africa is like flying to Europe -twice-. The rigors of such and cost impel me to stay minimum 14 days. Three weeks even better.

FWIW, I've been to MalaMala three times but not to Lion Sands nor Londolozi. So can't compare those. However, every time at MM we booked main camp but were changed to Sable because we were two adults, no kids. I'd go back to MM in a heartbeat. Above trip report includes stay at MM. The other Sabi Sand Reserve I've been to is Leopard Hills, also excellent camp, small, a bit $$$.

regards - tom

Go2Maui

Tom - since you're leaving from California I assume you live there (we live in the Bay Area). Are you flying non-stop or staying overnight in Europe? I am really dreading the long flight.

I enjoyed reading your trip report and looking at your photo galleries. I love all your photos - especially the photo of the young zebra against its mother - this should be in National Geographic! The contrast of the different stripes is amazing! And thanks for your thoughts on Mala Mala - glad to hear they serve good food because I'm a real foodie! We may end up staying there. Is Sable Camp much better than the main camp?

Have a wonderful trip next month - looking forward to reading your review of Kirkmans Kamp.

Lisey

cary999

G2M - Yes, I live in beautiful sunny southern CA, Fullerton. We have flown to JNB on several diff routes, via Europe and direct on SAA out of JFK. This time we are flying LAX to Frankfurt then to JNB on Lufthansa, we had FF miles we wanted to use. We have never stayed overnight Europe half-way. We prefer just to get it on and get it over with. Half way on that last flight you are afraid you are going to die and then after another hour you wish you would . Takes me I think 32 hours from home door to JNB hotel.

Yes meals/food at MM are very good, lets say 8 out of 10. Sable camp is a little better, the huts are all part of main camp area, but Sable has its own smaller dinning area, lounge, and boma. A little cozier. But the main lodge/lounge is beautiful and worth visiting often for a drink or two. Sable dining and game drives is all adult company, and they may (not sure) limit the number of guests on a vehicle. Not having really stayed at main camp, I'm not sure if Sable is worth the extra $$. But like I say, it has always been just given to us upon check-in. With five of you (very ) adults going I'd bet they would give you Sable. (Maybe it's also because we are also Senior Citizens!!!)

Happy you like the photos. Yes the zebra mom and foal is one of my favorites and hangs also on my wall. That was in Kruger, we were drifting along looking for anything and came across large herds of Zebra and buffalo meandering across the gravel road. We stopped, took lots of photos, amazing. Same luck happened a couple times with large herds of elephants. We like to start our safaris at Kruger, gives us time and adaptation cushion. Plus, inexpensive, for $200 per day with Avis rental car two people can do Kruger.

regards - tom

spassvogel

I am commenting only on Vic Falls Hotel:
We spent one night there and were happy it was not more! The hotel is heavily over-priced:
- the rooms need a major refurb
- the breakfast was poor
- the lawns are great
- the service in restaurant average
- it's frequented by russian groups

We wished we would have stayed at Ilala Lodge.

Chobe Chilwero was excellent. Extremely spacious chalets and very good meals.

SV

Go2Maui

Tom and SV,

Thanks for your info (again Tom)!

Tom - you said "Half way on that last flight you are afraid you are going to die and then after another hour you wish you would . Takes me I think 32 hours from home door to JNB hotel" - I better bring some sleeping medication! As grueling as the flight sounds, it must be worth it for you to go back so often! Also, are there places that give senior citizen discounts (we qualify!)?

SV - are you commenting on the VF Hotel or Royal Livingstone? I am looking forward to Chobe Chilwero since I've only heard great things about it!

Lisey

cary999

G2M - perhaps I exaggerate a bit about the flights, my dear Carolyn does not complain so loudly. But I do believe if the trip over/back were like going to only Europe, I would sure go twice a year!!! Yes, it is worth it.

regards - tom

ctlocal

"skip baboons - they are nasyy creatures and quite aggressive in the western cape."

I can't agree with this any more! I have lived in Southern Africa all my life and had similarly negative opinions about the Chacma baboons.

Bu I went walking with the baboons a month ago and it was a great experience. It completely changed my perception of baboons and made me realise how little knowledge of them i really had.

The monitored baboons near Cape Town are a great advert for what could happen if humans would stop feeding baboons and properly baboon proof their homes.

I can't praise the walk enough - and I was a sceptic before I went...

satpacker

Hi.

Lots of great comments on an itinerary which looks excellent in the first place (but the budget may be tight with internal flights):

A couple of comments:
> Around Cape Town, I'd forget the baboons - you'll see them on safari anyway. Rather go to the winelands for some great scenery, dining and wine to compete with the best the US has to offer (?!)
> Vic Falls. I've stayed at Royal Livingston several times. It's a great hotel (with monkeys on the lawn etc.), very 'colonial', great service and within hearing distance of the falls themselves. Only criticism would be the price and the rooms are quite small. It's probably best to be on the Zambian (rather than Zimbabwean) side of the falls due to supply issues. There are loads of activities - I'd recommend: sunset cruise on Zambezi, Helicopter or Microlight Flight over the falls and - if you're adventurous - rafting which is brilliant fun!
Johannesburg - I think it's always a shame to stay at an airport hotel, even if you're only there for a couple of days as a) they are loud and corporate, b) they are pretty expensive and c) they are at an airport (i.e. not in town). Joburg is a great city with some fantastic hotels - most tourists stay in Sandton (where most the world big hotel companies have hotels). Nice alternatives with airport pickups and with a more 'boutique' feel are: The Peech Hotel and Tinswalo Waterfall (very smart, in countryside just outside Joburg).

Enjoy. Rob.

agswimmer

Just curious. Why does everyone fly to Europe first from the US to get to Joburg? Everytime we've gone (leaving again in less than 2 weeks) we've flown nonstop to JNB from the US. This trip we're flying Delta nonstop to JNB out of Atlanta. The entire flight time from Atlanta is 15hrs 05mins.And this was also the cheapest rate we found.

cary999

Re staying at JNB airport located hotel, I'm there for -less than- a day before moving on to safari. Sometimes only about 12 hours. After being "on the road" for 30 plus hours I simply want to find a place to shower, stretch out, lay down, sleep, ASAP. Might explain why the Sun Intercontinental almost within JNB can charge $400 per night. That's as much as some safari camps and there is no game drive

Not -everyone- does fly to Europe first from USA to get to Joburg. Half our trips we have flown from USA JFK airport to JNB on SAA. Many other people fly from USA IAD to JNB on SAA. And next time I will look at at that Delta flight out of Atlanta. Cost, flight schedules and using FF miles has lot to do with choosing flights.

regards - tom

agswimmer

Which airline does SAA partner with to be able to use FF miles?

Safari_Craig

US Air, United, Lufthansa + a few smaller ones.

craig beal