SHAMWARI sells BOTH Rhino species to PH, Hunting farms and "businessmen"

Sad. Thanks for spreading the word spass.

Sad indeed.

I'm disgusted again!! Thanks SV. (Can they control who can buy them, I wonder)

@ christa

Press info by Shamwari (I have come to a conclusion):

21st May 2010



Statement regarding the sale of Rhino at Shamwari Game Reserve on the 22nd May 2010



Following various emails regarding the pending sale of Rhino at Shamwari we comment as follows:



1. Black and White Rhino cannot be purchased in South Africa unless the buyer is in the possession of a TOPS (Threatened or Protected Species) permit which is issued by provincial government authorities.



2. We scrutinize all buyers and can assure all doubters that the animals will end up in a safe environment.



3. We operate a professional and highly skilled wildlife department and visitations to this centre by tourists is a daily practice and we certainly have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.



4. The support and recognition of our work is acknowledged world wide and has set an example for many other conservation initiatives both in the area of South Africa and other parts of the world which includes the stocking of Rhino purchased from us and other sources.



5. We, more than most private parks understand fully just how endangered both species of Rhinos are in the world. We have the most sophisticated and respected anti poaching outfit in South Africa which costs us millions of dollars to operate. This is an indication of just how much the specie and its safety means to us.



6. Detractors would do well to read the book “The White Rhino Saga” written by Dr Ian Player who together with his team saved the White Rhino from extinction. Dr Player is fully aware of our sale and the sale of Rhinos in South Africa and fully respects what we are doing and have done in the past.



7. Shamwari would not have been able to breed Rhino if in the first instance we were unable to purchase them from other sources.



8. We operate a managed environment and are suffering from the worst drought in living history and thus we have to manage the stock numbers.



9. We would like to remind our detractors that 20 years ago, Shamwari was a drought ravaged, overgrazed abused piece of land overrun by cattle and sheep and many exotic plant species.



10. National Parks are selling 250 White Rhino this year and the KZN (Kwazulu Natal Parks) 41 White Rhino.







Adrian Gardiner

Chairman

Shamwari Game Reserve

Ah christabir

To me it would have been sufficient to simply state: NO SALES TO/AND/OR FOR HUNTING!

Too many words and too little content to just answer a simple question

SV

Good points by Shamwari. Especially no. 10.
I think it good that there are multiple, many, rhino "locations" in the world. Does this not help insure the rhino's future?

More pressure (good luck) needs to be put on the idiotic (world) culture reasons for killing/poaching rhino.

regards - tom

This post has made my blood boil.

Do you honestly think that a company such as Shamwari would willingly support the hunting industry? Do you really?

That company, group of individuals (the late Danie Malan, Adrian Gardiner, Paul, Joe & others), while operating a company, has developed a fine private reserve from the dust of an overgrazed wasteland. They, and perhaps the first and only, private reserve to allocate land to wilderness preservation,... and if you don't know the implications of that I'll be happy to explain... Would never reduce their endangered species head count by selling of to hunters & if they did believe me the plan would be to raise capital to reinvest multiple times in the same species.

Spassvogel.. I believe that in this instance the integrity of your post is dubious and if you are after sensationalism you have backed the wrong horse. Next time you attempt to condemn, subvert an organisation, why not approach them first, conduct earnest investigation and by all means then go after them, but in this instance your post reflects more about you than it does Shamwari: Shame on you! And to all those others who might be considering a stay at Shamwari... go for it, these guys are legit and totally into their conservation practices!

Spassvogel is being mishievous.
The reason why rhino from reserves and game parks are sold off is because the carrying capacity is not enough for the animals.Mkhonzo is correct.
http://holesinmysoles.blogspot.com/2010/05/african-safari-with-greenbushpig.html

Read my blog here and you'll understand what happens when the available territory is too small for the growing population of rhino.Relocation by auction to carefully selected and vetted purchasers is the only viable option because there are no wild areas left which are secured from illegal poaching.
Please note....Shamwari breed rhino because they in turn were able to buy them from auction.And because of a succesful breeding and protection program, they now can sell them to other reputable reserves/game parks.
The important point is to carefully vet the purchasers and ensure every onsold rhino has a paper trail establishing what happens to it.

It's not enough for you to slag them in this thread, but you done it in another-
http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/shamwaris-interpretation-of-conservation.cfm?0

I suppose detractors would rather see them starve to death in the drought, or be killed by the dominant bulls that will be ranging further from their establish territory because of feed shortage..

mkhonzo
Your blood is right to bil - but for the wrong reasons!

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

DON'T BLAME OTHERS FOR NOT EXECUTING RESEARCH PROPERLY! YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY HERE BELIEVING IN TO THE WRONG PEOPLE FOR THE WRONG REASONS!

This is an excerpt from the times - which is clearly shown! You just hasd to open the RHINOCONSERVATION link to read for yourself.

But because you are obviously too blind to see the obvious I post it here again!
AUCTIONEER who clearly isn't SPECULATING but stating FACTS:

According to Leer, their bidders range from game farmers to professional hunters and businessmen who own game farms.

"At the moment buffalo and sable are in high demand, and white rhinos are also very popular."

The reasons WHY reserves must manage their wildlife incl. selling their surplus is without any doubt necessary in order to maintain a healthy population. That is the reason artificially limited environments need far more than just maintenance by sales!
Furthermore: ALL reserves are breeding facilities - as also stated in the article. So any sales/purchase makes (ethically) sense to enlarge the gene pools!

So please do yourself a favour and - before slamming others for the wrong reasons disclosing you believing in some figures who do something to fill their pockets not much caring for ethics and morals - and come up with some facts which support your allegations towards me.

IF Shamwari acts in an ethically undoubtedly way - they should release the names of those who have purchased the animals! Anything else provides a huge shadow of a doubt!

SV

Spassvogel,

Let me at the outset of this mail state that I am dead against rhino hunting or for that matter any form of hunting. As a tourguide if I found out that you were a hunter you might well find that I would not tour with you, thats the seriousness of my intent.

With regard to this thread however I have to agree with Mkhonzo and Tactile very strongly. You say "dont shoot the messenger" well let me put it to you this way it depends on the quality of the messengers speech. What you have done is raised nothing other than speculation. NOBODY before the 22nd had any formal proof of who was going to be at the auction. All was speculation from the auctioneer down to the Times and eventually your own self. If you could prove that there would definitely be a professional hunter, or anybody of this ilk, bidding at this auction as a purchaser then name the party now and I will change my feelings. If you cant name one name as they say "keep quiet"! With only speculation on your side you raise hell and place the story on every board which has the word Shamwari in it. May I add that I am not a fan of Shamwari as I find it to be a very expensive safari type destination HOWEVER I have been on the gamefarm on 3 occasions and can tell you that everything that Adrian Gardiner has written is 100% correct. I will vouch for it because I have seen it happen in front of my own eyes. Shamwari is a model operation and deserves to be commended highly for their incredible efforts when it comes to eco values. I dont know whether you have been to Shamwari but if not then your whole hullabaloo about this issue is based on second, if not third hand information. So should I shoot the messenger for sloppy work in terms of collecting information - Read on!!!!

I have seen your mails in the past and have noticed that if there is the smallest speculation of an animal loosing a tooth you write about it. I dont mind this BUT what you are doing sometimes is you are simply dragging the innocent down the drain with your unverified writings. That simply is wrong. My suggestion to you is identical to what Mkhonzo says and that is do your homework thoroughly and then report.

Btw now that the auction is over the truth could probably be learnt as to who bought what, however you write on this site as if you have a right to know who the purchasers are. What right do you have to ask anybody to publish the information? If it was so important to you why were you not protesting at the auction itself when you saw a suspect professional hunter buying a rhino? You talk the talk and are cripple when it comes to the walk.

No sir you might have good intent in your beliefs (I truly believe this) but your actions are totally off beam purely because as a messenger you are a bad one who simply speculates and passes on third hand information. I detest that style of messengering so I ask again, do I, like Mkhonzo, shoot the messenger - You can bet your bottom Dollar that I do.

I suggest that in the future you stick to hard facts and not speculation when writing on this high quality African tourism forum because all that you do when you speculate is you belittle you own stature within the Fodors forum community.

Selwyn Davidowitz
Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

Spassvogel abuses this forum.
This forum is a travel advice forum but Irma seems to think it a forum for slagging companies on purely her own speculation.That's not what this forum is for!Too often she pops up with her anti hunting message and in this case completely based on her own speculation laying quite slanderous comments and speculation.
Get her off once and for all.

Well said, Selwyn, Tactile, Mkhonzo and others.

When I joined this forum, I thought it was a serious travel forum. I was mistaken. I still watch the forum, but rarely contribute.

I saw a post referring to this forum as "nauseating", and I thought it so appropriate.

These constant slandering sessions and circular debates simply bring Fodors into disrepute, and provide little, if any, value to the travel community. In fact, more damage is done under the auspices of "enlightenment" than anything else.

Get rid of the scandal-mongerers who prowl these forums for sensationalist value, lest Fodors simply becomes another gossip column.

By the way, let me also make it quite clear that I am not a hunter, nor am I pro-hunting, and nor do support the hunting concept.

I'm also no lover of Shamwari. Far from it.

But I am a realist!

Every rational reader of this thread, please read this link-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/7756380/Black-rhinos-released-in-Tanzania-in-most-ambitious-relocation-of-mammals-ever.html
And please note this sentence-"Conservationists, concerned that the Eastern Black Rhinoceros would be wiped out in East Africa, had moved seven of them to South Africa in 1964, where they thrived in private game parks. '
Private game parks!
So captive breeding in private game parks is making reintroduction of rhino plans possible.
Rhino conservation is a multi-faceted approach.But private game parks/reserves are a vital part of that.
There have now been 3 South African based posters respond to Spassvogel.I would think they know more about what is happening in their country than someone from Europe!
And this is a forum for travellers to seek and give advice, and certainly not Spassvogel's personal venue for venting her anti-hunting agenda!!!!