Given the very restrictive budget of $238 per day per person ($5000/21), I suggest eliminating South Africa and Botswana altogether. It will be almost impossible to have a quality safari unless you want to use the national park system in South Africa and do mostly a self-drive, self-guided trip. A comprehensive flight plan around Southern Africa to include Botswana and Victoria Falls is going to cost $1500 per person leaving only $3500 for the land arranegements.

If you could add just a little money to the budget, you could have a good Northern circuit in Tanzania and perhaps add some time in Kenya as well given the overall length of travel. If your friends could join you then you could have a cost effective private driver/guide and avoid any use of light aircrafts. You can do all lodge-to-lodge transfers by road sacrificing time (a few 8-10 hour transfers) for money. Also, Kenya/Tanzania will offer more accessibility to traditional culture vs. Southern Africa and Zanzibar is a “spice island”! Given the recent media exposure in Kenya I expect their rates will stay reasonable for the foreseeable future. To stay within budget, you can stay at big lodges (like SOPA) but mitigate any negative factors of mass accommodations by having the private guide instead of using a game drive package.

For Zanzibar, perhaps consider Shooting Star? It is one of our “go to” budget properties on the Island.

Craig Beal – owner – Travel Beyond

Well, you can do S Africa for three weeks - almost all on safari - for under $10,000 for two. I just did it in June. Depends on what you want to do. I recommend a self drive to cut transpiration costs - and you sound like you're more than up to it. Start in JNB, pick up a rental car and head to Entabeni, 3 hours north of JNB. This is a mid-range trip with all meals and game drives included. No camping, bathrooms, real beds. Three nights in Wildside, their tented camp and then head north to Mashatu. You might want to spend a night or two at Mopane Bush Lodge and see the San Art and check out the area. Then 3 nights at Mashatu Tented. This is still my favorite camp. Then drive three hours to Pafuri and spend a couple of nights. Drive south outside the park (or spend a night, or many, self catering at a rest camp with real beds and basic restaurants) and spend three nights in Sabi Sand or Timbavati at one of the less expensive camps like Arathusa or Shindzela. If you are interested, you can spend a night or two exploring the Blyde River Canyon area. Then drive back to JNB. All of the above driving times should be less than six hours and mostly highway. You could also do it backwards, which might make more sense.

If you want to do beach and safari, head to Sabi Sand or similar, then drive south through Swaziland. If you want to do safari there, there are three game reserves, one big five that you could visit for a few nights. Then head to Thanda, Tembe Elephant Park, Zululand Rhino Reserve, Hluhluwe NP (self catering, but with a very nice restaurant) or splurge on Phinda for safari. Then head to the beautiful beaches of the Elephant Coast. Lots of cultural experiences in Zululand/Ele Coast.

You can easily do S Africa, but you can't stay at the higher end, well marketed to the US and Europe camps. But you can stay at nice camps where you'll meet more S Africans than Americans. Adding in a few nights at the excellent S African national parks help the wallet and the parks are incredibly special. If you don't want to self drive you could change some things to make transfers less expensive - especially the Zululand area.

Have fun planning!

Chirstabir has some good ideas above. I have done the self drive circuit from Jo'burg-Mashatu-Pafuri-Southern Kruger. Pafuri is a private concession inside the Kruger and would be in the realm of possibilities within my original idea for you in my first post. It is also in the far north on the Zimbabwe border and very different from the Southern Kruger.

But, considering the rental car/gas and rates at Mashatu and Pafuri for six nghts, you are still only going to have $3,000 pp left for the final 15 days of your trip. Three days at Arathusa would be another $1,000 leaving you with $2,000 for the final 12 nights. I think you will have a tough time looking for experiences that will deliver value and a feeling of comfort within a budget of $166 per person per day. Filling a tank of gas alone costs about $70 for a corolla in South Africa.

How to book? For self drive, you can figure out what you want to to do (what rest camps, what order) on this forum then book a kruger self drive directly on the San Park web site.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

Craig - not true at all. Just did it. Can definitely be done, but one would have to book camps that aren't on your list. Throw in some nights at the other camps I mentioned, and it is within the OPs budget. Add nights in Joburg and Blyde River Canyon and voila. There are places to visit in S Africa that don't market to you.

Christabir - that's fine to disagree. I'll have to see how this thread develops to comment more. I still don't think it is possible to do a self drive 3-3-3, M-P-SS (mashatu, pafuri, sabi sands) itinerary for nine nights total plus spend 12 more days in SA (mostly on safari) for $5000 per person. Of course, if you do some non-safari activities then you can probably bring the per diem down to about $100 per night per person for the non safari nights but the OP is not going to find many agents or tour operators with the confidence or experience to recommend such itineraries. The trip will have to be designed online (i.e. on forums) and booked direct with the properties.

I am off to Africa tomorrow so I will need to check-in on my return.

Good luck!

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

Have fun Craig!

Hi,

I'd recommend you look at one of Masson Safaris http://www.massonsafaris.com/ scheduled safaris, a friend at work did one last year and paid just under $3,000 for 10 days.

Alternatively, you could do a Kruger self-drive that is well within your budget as Christabir suggests. Another option is to fly to Richards Bay, hire a car and self-drive around the parks of Kwazulu Natal - Hluhluwe-Umfolozi and Mkuze and spend a few nights in St Lucia to visit the heritage listed Wetland Park. I've found high quality B&Bs in St Lucia for around $100 per night and there are many less expensive options available.

The guidebooks mention the Baz Bus http://www.bazbus.com/specials.html which looks to be aimed at the backpacker market. This might be useful if you wanted to limit driving yourself. I've not used the Baz Bus so can't comment from my own experience.


Happy planning,


Pol

Note: there are travel warnings to Kenya now, Nairobli and some Coastal areas. On top of that you have elections next summer, so while I think the parks are safe you might want to consider that. I think both Christa and Craig have strong cases for SA, but feel it can be done

Another alternative is a Tanzanian N Circuit Safari. If you shop you can find an operator for about $300/pppd for your safari portion, and less for your beach portion with real beds and private bath facilities at all locations. 10k will cover 12-14 days safari with extra days at the beach, tips and incidentals

Your operator will handle ALL the details and driving, from the moment you land at JRO till you leave all you have to do is sit back and enjoy your trip

I agree with FrankS - I'm going to steer clear from Kenya for now, and focus my safari in Tanzania, Northern Circuit, then going over to Zanzibar to relax for Christmas.

I'm booked with safari infinity - and got a good quote for 3 days - 2 nts safari.

Thanks, everyone, for all the advice. We're not really confident enough to do a self drive but appreciate all the info. I have done some research and Tanania sounds good. I have contacted safari inifinity so Ogtravel, please let me know how your trip goes. As this won't happen for quite a while, I'm still looking for other advice and recommendations.

There are a number of threads on Trip Advisor ( www.tripadvisor.com/forums select Africa, select Kenya ), whether regarding the elections, visiting the coastal areas and in/around Nairobi. Even a report from someone recently on-the-ground "Security 29/30th Oct" and another by Jake Greives regarding the elections. Check it out.

Seems that all is quiet on the ground, but for additional airport and hotel security. Even out on the coast, those areas south of Lamu... hotels are full and few cancellations.

As OP isn't planning to travel for 1/yr to 1.5/yrs... more than sufficient time to see how things shake out.

So, whether Kenya or Tanzania, it often depends on time of year where best to visit, as prices are seasonal where your $5K/person is doable for 2/weeks, but unlikely if longer. Now, you have to research and get offerings/prices.

If you go for two weeks with 12 days on the ground and 2 for flying, that is $10,000/12 = $416/day x 2 people. You should be able to do a guided Tanzania or Kenya safari for that. If a couple of those days are at the beach, the cost goes down.

To keep costs down on my last Kenya safari I stayed at Kenya Wildlife Service bandas, which had private bathrooms and nice beds. They are small and intimate compared to the larger lodges which also offer savings. But the lodges don't offer as much savings as the bandas. The bandas are self catering so you bring your own chef (arranged by the safari company) and still save $. It was a bargain for 1, so splitting the fixed cost of a chef among 4 would be even better. Not every company books bandas, but Eastern and Southern does.

Though you wouldn't get a lot of culture, tea, spice, or beach, I do like the Botswana mobile suggestion from Treepol. It would certainly meet your needs of shower and not sleeping on the ground. The mobiles are quite comfortable.

Lots of good options and lots of time to plan.

For sure, I'll keep you posted. So far they've been pretty professional & responsive.

Dear saskadventurer,

All you need is in Kenya and Tanzamnia combined within your budget staying in five or four star tented camps.
Call it Tea plantations-Kericho,Kenya.Beach and spice in Zanzibar.Wildlife in Kenya-Maasai Mara Game Reserve,Lake Nakuru National Park,AmboseliNational Park and Samburu or Shaba Game Reserves.All the parks and reserves are homes to the Big Five and other wildlife and birdlife.
You have started planning in good time and hope this information helps.
Thanks and keep well.
Speedbirdsafaris

homestayholidays - is a tout, disregard especially as the answers have nothing to do with the queries.

Hey guys, thanks again for your helpful advice/tips on safaris in Tanzania. I just finished my 3 days/2 nights safari - and I took Sandi's advice by skipping one of the parks and just did Tarangire, Lake Manyara & Ngorongoro, and they were all more than spectacular. Thinking of coming back next summer for Serengeti!

@Saskaadventurer: Safari Infinity were awesome, professional/helpful and super friendly - made my 3 days trip worthwhile. We opted to stay at Roika tented lodge & Endoro lodge instead of just camping outside though, but they were both pretty luxurious, and not too expensive. Hope this helps!

Hi Sask,welcometo Fodors congrats on retirement/trip.MANY cost-effective Safari Options under $5K pp detailed here

The Web's biggest and best Africa safari site! ... Hi, I'm Alan Fox, Chairman & CEO of Vacations To Go. When I started this company in 1984, we were ...

www.vacationstogo.com/alanfox.cfm

Also check friendlyplanet.com travelzoo.com for Kenya sales from $1795 per person INCLUDING air.Garth Jenman South Africa www.jenmansafaris.com excellent personal experience in the past.Do beware of commercial touts with for profit motives
and scammers that troll here and elswhere to fleece the clueless newbie.Always pay with CC never wire money ind insuremytrip.com always wise for me.

Happy Planning!

Join a self drive group and tour the parks of Botswana. There are companies that have guides, staff that set up campsites with showers, and do all the cooking. Have an itinerary all set up and frequently have 4x4s to hire too. These companies are popular with South Africans and many Europeans who enjoy self drive, and inexpensive - would easy be at the low end of your budget. This is also an opportunity to see and learn more of the country you want to visit and meet some interesting people.

I'm still checking out tour companies. I have quotes from Safari Infinity, Real Adventure and Bush2Bush.
Ogtravel,thanks for the info about Safari Infinity.
One company suggests a 7-8 say safari; another suggest 4-5. Is 4-5 enough? I doubt we'll ever get back.
Still open to suggestions and recommendations.

7-8 days safari vs 4-5?
Which country/ies?

With up to 3/weeks, 4-5/days is rather ridiculous... and then what? Of course, if South Africa you can spend time in Capetown, or self-drive the Garden Route. However, if Botswana, Kenya or Tanzania, you don't have the advantage of a 'city' to spend more than a day or two.

Why not post a summary of the itineraries being proposed and then we can comment. Where visiting, how many days, where staying (lodge/hotel/camp), etc., cost (we don't need the 'detail' of particular days activities, ie, descriptions of parks/reserve/city, unless there are 'options.

Is 4-5 enough?
Heck no

Thanks for the responses.

We're plannning to go only to Tanzania. Here's an outline of two of the tours we've been sent.

One tour: 9 days on safari (Manyara, Ndutu,Serengeti National Park,Ngorongoro, Tarangire,Arusha National Park), 6 days in Zanzibar (Nungwi, Stone Town), an arrival day and a departure day

Tour two: 4 days (Tarangire,Serengeti, Ngorongo, Lake Manyara), 4 days (Stone Town, Nungwi) an arrival day and a departure day

Tour two - 4/days to visit Tarangire, Serengeti, Ngorongoro and Manyara - NO WAY. That's 1/day each not taking into consideration transit between each. You'll slit your wrists!

On Tour one - 9/days where you can cover most... I'd prefer Tarangire over Manyara and if insufficient time, omit Arusha NP. And, depending on time of year, whether best to be at Ndutu or in the Serengeti.

Thanks, Sandi. We are now looking at going in Feb. of 2013. We can add a few days if we want to.

February is ideal for Tanzania and the 'calving' of wildebeest in the Ndutu area. If needed to add a few days, you can certainly cover

- On arrival, Arusha - o/n
- Arusha NP - o/n
- Tarangire (2nts)
- Manyara/Karatu (1)
- Ndutu/Serengeti (3-4)
- Ngorongoro (1-2)
- Arusha, fly to ZNZ (remaining days)

Above all driving and suggested number of nts. And, you can choose to visit Ngo first, then Ndutu and fly back from there to Arusha.

You certainly have sufficient time to plan for next year and get the accommodations you wish.

you budget is quite tite for the number of days you want but if you could atleast give camping a chance. Some local mobile operators in Botswana use en-suite tents and stretchers you wont sleeep on the ground like you are saying.. i know quite a few companies in Botswana that deals with camping safaris...its AFRICAN EXCURSIONS (whom i did about 3 tours with them for 3 consecutive years and their e-mail address is africanexcursions@botsnet.bw) their is Delta cruisers..Afrika Calls and Mosu Safaris you try those

Hello all. Thanks for all your advice. Now I have some specifics and would like opinions.

Real Adventure Tours suggest 1 day in Arusha Nat. Park, 2 days in the Serengeti, 3 days at Lake Manyara and 3 days at Ngorongoro, then 3 nights in Stone Town and 3 nights in Nungwi Beach. The price for 4 people is $4860 pp. Most of the accommodation is in lodges, a few nights in tents.

Duma Explorer suggests 1 day in Arush National Park, 2 days in Tarangire, 2 days central Serenget, 3 days southern Serengeti,1 day Lake Manyara, 1 day Ngorongoro. The accommodations are mostly tents, a couple of nights in lodges, then 3 days in Stone Town and 3 days in Pongwe. Cost is $4220 for 4 people. Both of these are private tours.

I'd love a response about the itineraries and from anyone who has travelled with either of these companies. I realize that the accomodations differ so the price comparison isn't quite true but these are the companies I've been most impressed with thus far.

Forget the first itinerary! The second one is better, but you could also skip Lake Manyara and add a night in the Serengeti. I hope that's not the order in which the safari would be done. I don't think you could get to the central Serengeti from Tarangire in one day. The Crater would be the logical stop in between the two. Also, I don't think you need 3 nights in Stone Town; I'd suggest 2 at the most. Pongwe is my favorite place in Zanzibar and is a good choice. Are you flying back from the Serengeti? If not, then you may have to stick with the Lake Manyara stop, putting it in after the Serengeti. Most flights to Zanzibar leave from Arusha or JRO mid-afternoon, so you'll need to be closer than the Serengeti unless you're flying back. Can you post the exact itinerary?

Thanks, Shay Tay. This is it.

Day 1: Arusha to Lake Manyara National Park. Game drive overnight Rhotia Valley Tented Camp
Day 2: Serengeti overnight Nasikia Central Camp
Day 3: Serengeti overnight Nasikia Central Camp
Day 4: Southern Serengeti overnight Serengeti Savannah Camp
Day 5: Southern Serengeti overnight Serengeti Savannah Camp
Day 6: Southern Serengeti overnight Serengeti Savannah Camp
Day 7: Transfer to Ngorongoro overnight Sopa Lodge
Day 8: Crater game drive overnight Tarangire River Camp
Day 9: Tarangire full day overnight Tarangire River Camp
Day 10: Tarangire to Arusha Airport. Fly to Zanzibar

I may have misled the RAT itinerary as I am ignorant of Tanzania's geography. As I gave the specific Duma one, I thought I'd also post The specific Rat itinerary.

Day 1: JRO – Marangu – Capricorn Hotel
Day 2: Marangu – Arusha – Arumeru River Lodge
Day 3: Arusha – Manyara – Kirurumu Tented Lodge
Day 4: Manyara – Lake Eysi ( visit Bushmen)– Tindiga Tented Camp
Day 5: Lake Eysi ( Bushmen hunting and gathering exercise)- Karatu -Bougainvillea Safari Lodge
Day 6: Karatu – Ngorongoro – Ngorongoro Sopa Lodge
Day 7: Ngorongoro (Olduvai Gorge)– Ndutu – Ngorongoro Wildreness Tented Camp
Day 8: Ndutu – Ngorongoro Wilderness Tented Camp
Day 9: Ndutu – Central Serengeti – Serengeti Sopa Lodge
Day 10: Serengeti National Park – Serengeti Sopa Lodge
Day 11: game viewing in Serengeti = Seronera – Nungwi Beach
Days 12 - 14 Nungwi Beach – Doubletree Resort ( Deluxe See Front Room)
Day 15 –17: Nungwi – Stone Town – Mtoni Marine (Palm Court Room)
Day 18: Stone Town – Zanzibar Airport

Yes, I definitely prefer the Duma itinerary. This one would work for a February timeframe. If it's at a different time of year, then you'd want a different location than the southern Serengeti (Ndutu area.) The itinerary has mostly tented camps, which I think are best on a safari, plenty of time in the Serengeti, and is laid out in a logical order.

The RAT itinerary really makes no sense. Marangu is east of the airport and even east of Moshi, while Arusha is in the opposite direction from the airport. Unless you're climbing Mt. Kili, it doesn't make sense to go there. You waste Day 2 getting back to Arusha. I've visited the Hazabe ("Bushmen" on their itinerary) and unless this is something you REALLY want to do and are in good enough shape to keep up with them on a hunt, I'd skip that. On Day 7, you'll spend a half day in the Crater, stop by the museum at Olduvai Gorge, then head on to the Ntudu area. That means that you'll most likely arrive at the camp just before sunset. Your only full day of game viewing in that area will be Day 8, but this is the area that the Migration will most likely be in. On Day 11, they show you going from the central Serengeti/Seronera to Nungwi Beach on Zanzibar. The only way you can do that is to fly back to Arusha. Is that included in your price? The Duma itinerary can be done entirely via road transfers, but the RAT itinerary cannot.

Be aware that there are actually two airports near Arusha, Kilimanjaro Airport (JRO), the international airport about 40 kms east of Arusha and the domestic Arusha Airport (ARK) just south of town. Depending on which airline you're flying to Zanzibar, you could be leaving from either one. You'll need to make sure that you arrive at the correct airport in plenty of time to make your flight to Zanzibar (ZNZ).

Thanks, Shay Tay. The flight was included in the RAT program and Duma quoted $195.00 for the flight, is willing to book it, and get us to the airport.

I really appreciate the feedback. I tried to find maps that showed the areas but was not very successful. I know we'll spend lots of time in a vehicle but I hope of that time is spent viewing game, not getting from one place to another.

We'd like to do the spice tour, the prison island tour, the Jozani forest tour and probably a Stone Town tour. Are 2 days in Stone Town enough?

Both the Spice Tour and Jozani are outside of Stone Town. You can actually do the Jozani stop on the way to the beach resort as most are in that direction.

As posted here and on TA, just too many 1/nighters and zig-zagging with the RAT and that stop in Marangu makes no sense whatsoever.

I can well understand that you feel you may never be back, but you maybe trying to do too much. This isn't the west where roads are in descent condition... not so in Tanzania, but for small sections, where you'll be spending more time in transit than game viewing.

And, as ShayTay mentions, do you really want to visit the Hadzabe and be running around with them and being offered a 'taste' of the bird or monkey they hunted down. This is not to dissuade people to visit, but except for enjoying a stay on the lake front, this stop is often best for kids or agile youngsters.

Other info was provided you on TA.

When you say that Duma offered the flight at $195, what flight is that? From Tarangire, you don't need to fly back to Arusha. It's only about a 2.5 hour drive on good roads. Even if you're flying from JRO rather than the Arusha Airport, that's just one more hours and you'd have plenty of time to make your flight to Zanzibar.

Yes, two days in Stone Town should be enough. I'd suggest going on to Pongwe first and spend 2 or 3 nights there. On your way back to Stone Town, you can do a morning Spice Farm tour. Have lunch at Mtoni Marine north of ST, then do an afternoon tour of ST. I like to stay at Tembo House, which is on the waterfront, but not as expensive as the Serena. The next day, you can go over to Prison Island for snorkeling and to see the giant tortoises. It's usually just a half-day trip, so it's possible to visit the Jozani Forest that afternoon. Jozani is southeast of ST, while Pongwe is northeast, so Jozani is not really on the way to or from Pongwe. After spending your second night in ST, use the next morning for your final shopping excursions. Are you flying out from Dar es Salaam? Most flights such as KLM depart quite late, so I'd suggest having your outfitter fly you over to Dar from ZNZ early to mid-afternoon and have you transported to a day room in town. Our group is scheduled for the Harbourview Suites this year and I've also stayed at the Slipway. This gives you an opportunity to rest up and have dinner before you leave. I suggested the earlier afternoon flight because traffic in Dar at rush hour is horrible! You'd want to beat that traffic getting to your dayroom.

Believe it's a drive from Tarangire to Arusha airport for flight to ZNZ. The fare is about $200/pp one way. Flight departs ARK 12:30-12:45, arriving ZNZ 1/hr later.

Thanks for all the excellent advice. Duma is certainly seems to be the better choice. The flight I mentioned was to Zanzibar.

We might not do all the tours in Zanzibar; we'll play that by ear. I gather it will be very hot and humid while we are there. Is Pongwe still a good choice as it has no AC? We're from a very dry area but if it usually cools down at night or there is a breeze off the water, we'll be fine.

Will the safari be humid too?

I plan to fly home from Dar es Salaam. Shay Tay, thanks for the advice about when to fly and about the day room. We've had late checkouts before but never a day room. What a good idea.

Another question, we'll be flying from Canada. What's the best way to get to Tanzania - through Europe or the U.S.?

As to need for a/c - many of those who have stayed at Pongwe said it was fine without as there is a breeze and with ceiling fans, good enough. Not sure whether this holds true during Feb when the temps can be in the 90s or higher and humidity not that much less or even the same. When we visited in June... the nights didn't cool much, as happens when on the mainland.

But in the end, it's a personal choice and mine is 'a/c, or I don't stay' Not keen waking up on wet sheets, especially from a gal who rarely sweats.

The mainland will be hot, rarely humid, and nights/early mornings will be a few degrees cooler and comfy for sleep. Though some years, at minimum, some lodges/camps did provide fans.

Should you decide you need a/c as I did last June, check out Mchanga Beach. It's a bit pricier however I found most places with a/c were.

www.mchangabeachlodge.com

It's absolutely stunning!

Re Fights from Canada to Tanzania, I flew British Airways thru London and stopped both ways for a few days to visit friends.

Next time think I'll look into return flights Vancouver to London with one carrier and then a separate return flight for the Africa portion. Seems London has more carriers and deals to Africa, altho sandi could respond best to that.

Where in Sask would you fly from? It may even be worth while flying to Toronto then a Toronto to London package and then seeing what airline has the best rate for a London Tanzania return.

Something to think about anyway.

I rarely (probably last flight 13/yrs ago) fly thru London... hate the airport and the taxes in/out of the UK are the highest and continue to skyrocket.

However, you decide to fly, do your utmost to have all issued as one (1) ticket, preferably even one (1) carrier, as if delays... the airline is then responsible to see you get where you're going... even if a hotel is required. With multi-tickets/carriers, you're often on your own. Why some people build in a day on arrival.

Just read that Emirates is scheduled soon to be flying out of Seattle SEA, if that works, know their fares can be very competitive. Long flight into Dubai (12/hrs), but they fly over the Pole so no longer than if from NYC, then it's only 5/hrs to Nairobi; they also fly out of DAR if concluding on Zanzibar.

The easiest flight schedule would be to fly to Amsterdam (AMS), connect with the KLM flight to JRO, then fly KLM back to AMS from DAR. The only other airline going directly into JRO and out of DAR is Ethiopian Airlines. They are now in the Star Alliance (partners with Air Canada), but you might be more comfortable flying through Amsterdam.

No, it shouldn't be humid on the safari, although in February it can be hot. Elevations are the key... 3500' in Arusha, 7800' on the Crater wall, and about a mile high in the Serengeti. You can have thunderstorms during February, but they don't make it humid. Ponge's bungalows do get sea breezes, but you'd want to ensure that you have one of the front ones, as they have a few that are set back a little ways and those few feet can make a big difference. KathBC has a nice recommendation, too. I've also stayed at Shooting Star, which has AC, but I don't like their beach area as much. The lodge is set on a cliff above the beach and you have to go down stairs to get to it. Also, the beach is fairly narrow and much of it is under water during high tide.

Hello, again.

I just received another quote and itinerary. It seems to be almost the reverse of the Duma one but I'm not sure about some of the locations.

Edge East Africa Safaris

Day 1: Arusha - Tarangire National ParK - Tarangire Camp Site

Day 2: Tarangire National Park - Tarangire Camp Site

Day 3: Tarangire - Ngorongor Highlands - Karatu Camp Site

Day 4: Ngorongor Conservancy Area - Lake Eyasi - Karatu Camp Site ( This day includes time with Bushmen - morning routine of the settlement. Is it worth it? Itinerary desctibes it as "an extraordinary cross-cultural experience." Accurate or hype?)

Day 5: Ngorongoro Crater - Karatu Camp Site

Day 6: Ngorongoro Conservation Area- Olduvai Gorge - Serengeti Nationl Park - Seronera Camp Site

Day 7: Serengeti Nationl Park - Sereonera Camp Site

Day 8: Serengeti Nationl Park - Lake Natron - Natroni Camp site

Day 9: Lake Natron - Lake Manyara Nationl Park - Manyara Camp Site

Day 10: Lake Manyara - Arush - Zanzibar

Days 11- 16: Pongwe Beach - doing tours from there

Day 17: Depart for home

Price pp for 2 $4320.

I haven't been able to find the camp sites on line so I've asked them to send me links. However, I wanted to check on the itinerary. I've found several maps of Tanzania. When I put them together, I think I have a better idea of the "lay of the lnad." This itinerary seems to do some backtracking, if I have my map layout right. However, I don't know about roads etc. Is this a logical itinerary?

I really do appreciate all the info you've been giving me. I'm going to check out the Mchanga Beach Lodge. Is it near Pongwe?

Day 4 - only 1/day to go to Eyasi and return to Karatu? Brutal.

And, where/why did Natron pop up (did you even ask for this?)... which is way northeast of Serengeti, for 1/nt and then south to Manyara... tiring for sure If Manyara is the destination after Serengeti, you can simply drive south and on coming upon tarmac road, drive to Manyara. This can even give you another day in the Serengeti or 2/nts at Eyasi and not so rushed with only 1/day there.

Hi, Sandi.

I did not ask for Natron. I wasn't even sure where it was. I'm still not but have a better idea. This is the reason this forum is so great. One can't ask for a change in itinerary if one doesn't know there's anything wrong with it.

With changing the Natron stop to another day in the Serengeti, would this itinerary be equivalent to the Duma one? I assume Karatu is not on the edge of the crater, staying there is a better use of time is it not?