I checked the East Africa Trip report Index,

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34725679

and could not find anyone that had written a report that had used OAT. It has been mentioned on this board, but, so far, no reports!

Hi Barbara

I can comment on a few points in your post.

FACT. Safari Costs. Please don't believe the marketing! In East Africa, OAT, 2Afrika and similar overseas companies are more expensive than well-established local outfitters. We've had this discussion here in the past. Take any itinerary from these agents and send it to a few local companies and you will be surprised at the savings! Sometimes you can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Remember, they don't operate their own safaris - they simply use local companies after adding stiff margins!

FACT. Private vs. Group travel. The prices you get from these overseas companies are based on 15 or more people traveling together. Ask them for a private safari for 2 and their prices can double or worst! And a similar private safari for 2 arranged by a local outfitter will be cheaper than 99% of these much-hyped group safaris - this is easy to prove!

FACT. Itineraries. These overseas companies have set deparures using larger lodges/camps to accommodate larger groups. In most cases the itineraries are designed around availability and profit margins and not around animal movement patterns and client interests. Instead, with the help of this board you can design perfect itineraries putting you at the best places at the best times.

FACT: Airfares. It is tempting to look at all-inclusive packages as money-savers. But are they? When using kayak.com and other resources you can find airfares to Africa that will almost wlways beat the fares of the overseas safari companies who have to build fare-hike buffers in their rates.

SUMMARY: There are good reasons why people use OAT, 2Afrika and similar agents. Many people like to travel in groups. Some make life-long friends on such trips, some are traveling last-minute and cannot arrange a private trip in time, and others just don't have the knowledge, patience or nerve to go to Africa on private safaris. This is perfectly understandable.

BUT: these tours are NEVER cheaper and they are certainly NEVER optimized for game viewing!

I used OAT last year on their Ultimate Africa and now I have been working on going back to Botswana. I found the camps to be lovely. I'm sure they were not the super luxury camps that I have read about on this message board - but they were far nicer than I expected. With OAT you are limited to sixteen people -our group had twelve and each camp had two vehicles going out so no overcrowding as far as I was concerned.
OAT does have an emphasis on education (in theory) everyday there was a short talk or demonstration of local handicrafts, cooking, tracking, etc.
I felt the variety of the camps was interesting - going from Baobab Lodge in the Chobe area (we were fully surrounded by elephants there on a couple of treks), then on to the more waterbased Lianshula Lodge in Namibia with daily sundowners on the river, to a bit more rustic setting in the Okavanga delta then on to Linkwasha Lodge in Hwange, ending up at Victoria Falls.
I felt everyone at each camp tried and succeeded in providing us some great game viewing. Of course I speak as a rookie.
As far as pricing - I am working with frequent flier miles right now and companion airfare and find the OAT's prices were fair. I suppose if I was an absolute wiz at making the airfare deal there might be some differences. Same goes for contacting local operators. I still think OAT is a great deal and the Ultimate Africa is a good introduction to the area.

Overseas Adventure Travel isn't located overseas; they're headquartered in Boston. One of the original founders is now one of the owners of Thomson Safaris. Their advantage is the really great prices they get on airfare. Some of their packages with air can be the same as some safari company's land-only costs. Of course there are trade-offs and everyone has to decide what's more appealing to them, but for some people, group travel is the only way they are going to be able to go to Africa. Current "A contract" airfare from the West Coast of the US to Kilimanjaro/Arusha is almost $2500. I shudder to think the contract prices will be next year.

What is "A contract"?

I looked into OAT briefly for my upcoming trip to Africa. The thing that turned me off them was when I saw they had an unsatisfactory rating with the Better Business Bureau. I don't know if that matters much to you, but it was a red flag to me.

Jenn

Thanks, All, for your responses. And, Jenn-- Yes, I do think BBB ratings are valuable consumer resources. I tried to access that info by going to BBB.org, but couldn't find anything for OAT or its parent company Grand Circle Travel. What was the nature of the complaints? I'm surprised that the rating was unsatisfactory given our positive experience with them in the past.

Barbara,

Here's the link to the BBB report

http://www.bosbbb.org/reports/reliability_report.asp?FirmId=0000003848


Good luck with whatever you decide to do


Jenn

The "A" contract is what companies with extensive bookings can get with the airlines.

Regarding OAT...I've traveled with them 3 times: Egypt, Tanzania, and Costa Rica. The home office people are NOT the easiest to work with and you have to watch them carefully. On the Tanzania trip, they tried to book one of our people back to Seattle instead of Houston, where she originated. They also misspelled her name on her air ticket and didn't want to fix it. If you can survive the Boston office screw-ups, however, they have GREAT in-country people. The tours were great and the tour leaders exceptional.

Wow, did I read that correctly???

Out of 1,176 Travel Agencies / Tour Operators, only OAT/Grand Circle had more than 100 complaints in the last 36 months??? Only five others had in the 26-99 complaints range???

1,033 out of the 1,176 had NO complaints, and of the remaining 143, 113 had 4 complaints or less.

Current lowest published fares on NW for LAX-JRO are approx $1850 (low season) and $2300 (high season) including taxes. This is what you'd pay if you booked the airfare yourself provided there is Q seat availability.

Just weighing in. I have taken several OAT trips, and have been happy with all of them. This BBB info is bothersome, though. I'm wondering if so many issues have arisen because this company is mammoth and deals with thousands of travelers each year. Rather than deal with the number of concerns, it would be interesting to know what percentage of the clients registered problems. I notice that their website shows that for 2005, OAT comes in with the top 15 of Travel + Leisure's Tour and Safari Outfitters awards. The company also integrates a lot of cultural contact with the local people and it also gives back to the areas visited through support of schools, orphanages, etc. There have been a few times when circumstances beyond the company's control have dictated that the exact itinerary be modified, but the guides we have had have been tireless in trying to arrange the best and most satisfying substitute arrangements withing their power. Of course, not all tour guides will give 100 per cent and some will have attitudes. That's human nature, but it can make or break a trip for the group. This is where the post trip evaluations come in. It has been my impression that OAT takes these seriously. Being an OAT tour guide, especially in developing countries or in those countries having depressed economies, is a position to be sought after and protected. Since it allows for financial security in places where it isn't so easy to make a living, it would be crazy to a guide not to do his level best to please. Those who do not have others waiting to take their places.
I have found OAT to be a sound company which provides a rich variety of small group experiences for its clients at affordable prices. These are just my thoughts and experiences, but I felt I needed to add this information to help achieve some balance here.

Well, it seems that OAT, rather than satisfactorily address the complaints, have allowed them to go unsatisfied, thus falling into the bad graces of the BBB. Being the ONLY company with more than 100 complaints speaks for itself, especially when 88% of the other companies did not receive a single complaint and 97.5% of the companies received four complaints or less.

I understand what you're saying, Rocco, and I certainly don't want to endorse a company which rips off its clients, directly or indirectly. But, once again, given the company's size, rather than look at the number of complaints, I'd still be interested in the percentage. Also, the nature of the complaints. It's just that I have traveled with them several times, and I feel I got more than my money's worth. Certainly I might have had more deluxe trips were I to have arranged, let's say, my own private safari, but for several hundred dollars (even thousands whe you consider airfare) I feel that OAT has been a wonderful resource for me and has allowed me more trips than I otherwise could afford to take. All of these within a small group context.

Ry2two

I can only speak for East Africa. Please don't think that a private safari in East Africa for 2 (including airfare) is necessarily more expensive than a OAT group safari!

This is a huge misconception that we should bury deep once and for all.

I claim that you can have a more luxurious Tanzania safari for less than an OAT group tour.

Enjoying the company of others on safari is a completely different matter and I don't have any issues with someone doing a group tour for this and other reasons. But please please let's STOP spreading the misinformation that these tours are cheaper than the rest!

Could you price that out, Eben? I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but the sticking point, in my mind, is always the airfare. Right now on Kayak, the absolute cheapest flight from LAX to JRO on August 19 is on American and Ethiopian airlines, hopscotching through Rome and Ethiopia for $2621. The OAT tour leaving on that date is $4695 plus taxes and fees ($200?) and uses KLM. I suppose you could come up with a $2000 two-week Tanzania safari, including a mobile tented camp in the Serengeti for 4 days, but it would be tight.

Ry2two also makes a valid point about percentages. They book thousands, not hundreds of travelers. Like I said, my experience with the Boston office has not been positive, but the people in-country have been great.

OAT's pricing may benefit late planners as there's not much airline competition into JRO, so booking air at this late date for an August trip would be costly and/or you'd end up with a convoluted routing.

However, change the departure date and the equation may be different. I don't think it's always cheaper to do it one way or the other, which is what I think you're both trying to say.

Calling the OAT Tanzania itinerary a two week safari is a bit inaccurate though. I love how these companies include the departure and arrival days in the US. In actuality, it's a 9 night safaris plus 2 nights in Arusha plus travel days.

Another thing to consider with OAT, is that with their group size they still require a certain sized camp.

During my stay at Mbuzi Mawe, there was an OAT group present, and I must say that Mbuzi Mawe was the least favorite of all the camps I had visited (Tarangire Treetops, Lake Manyara Tree Lodge, Ngorongoro Crater Lodge and Nomad Serengeti Mobile Camp).

These other camps would not even be booked by OAT, in all likelihood, and I personally try to keep my own clients away from camps that may host any large groups such as OAT.

Keeping it in context - does not look good based on BBB reports. However - here's a few more facts:

None of the businesses listed below are members of BBB:
A&K
MT Sobek
Micato
Tauck
.... check others

OAT / Grand Circle accepted membership in acknowledging they would raise themselves to a high standard. Did not work out, evidently. Do credit a business that will hold themselves to a higher standard and open the doors for critique.

Since OAT is no longer a member of BBB they may not be responding to BBB in timeframes stated, while/yet addressing issues directly with customers themselves. Customer complaints issed to BBB are not allowed to be changed once issued. There are unknowns.

The pricing from OAT is extremely price competitive with airfare included. Look forward to seeing a competitive internal safari that can compete. OAT definitely has advantage with business volume.

Rocco:

" During my stay at Mbuzi Mawe, there was an OAT group present, and I must say that Mbuzi Mawe was the least favorite of all the camps I had visited (Tarangire Treetops, Lake Manyara Tree Lodge, Ngorongoro Crater Lodge and Nomad Serengeti Mobile Camp). "

Is your point Rocco - that Mbuzi Mawe wa not acceptable to your standards or are you inferring that you dislike the company of large groups? Normal people, like many on the board, choose to travel with groups --- does not make them less desireable.

I find that the larger the camp/lodge, the less personable the service. This was even true while at Tarangire Treetops, but it was such a beautiful camp, with rooms that were so tastefully done (while Mbuzi Mawe looked like it needed the help of one of the HGTV interior designers) that even Tarangire Treetops was very nice, despite its 20 tents. Plus, we were allowed the opportunity to enjoy private dinners on our beautiful balcony overlooking the horizon. This would not have been possible at Mbuzi Mawe. Another thing...the food at Mbuzi Mawe was very mediocre and there were no gameviewing tracks anywhere in the area...everything was a 45 minute drive away before there were any circuits to be found.

If I could have done it over, I would have gone all the way north to Migration Camp, despite my March visit. I ended up 1/2 way there, anyhow, while doing game drives from Mbuzi Mawe.

Finally, as it seems that this is what is trying to be squeezed out of me...admittedly, I did not enjoy sharing a camp with an OAT group. They were largely first time travelers to Africa who did not have basic understandings that a more sophisticated safarigoer would have (like it is not a laughing matter when lions are stationing themselves in the camp!). Moreover, I think it ruins the intimacy of the safari experience when there are large groups, OAT or others. Just my personal opinion but one that I use when planning safaris for my clients, as well.

Anytime you have a group, they can sort of "take over" a camp, even a group of Fodorites

The complaints that I recall seeing against OAT seem to mostly involve bumping travelers due to overbooking or cancellation of trips due to not enough travelers booked. Notice in some cases was given very close to the departure date when it would be very difficult for the traveler to find an alternative. I don't think I've read anything like that on the Africa board, but here's a thread from the Europe board - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34546783

Comments about the tours themselves seem to be positive overall.

I have read of similar things mentioned by Ptty but I think I read it on a report on the ASIA board. I will try to find it and post a link but if you get to look before I do just do a search for OAT on the Asia board.
J

Try this

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=27

Hope it works!
J

Sorry I am missing something in the link! But if you search on the Asia board under OAT it is the first thread that comes up.
J

Maybe my previous post was a bit strong. My apologies.

What rattles my cage a bit are constant claims that thousands of dollars can be saved on these group tours!

My question is simply: Are you sure?

For example, compare OAT or 2Afrika tours with this published Good Earth itinerary: http://www.goodearthtours.com/migration_safari.html

To me, the GE accommodations look far superior yet the packaged (air included) fares are comparable (but understandably more). Should one downscales the GE accommodations to compare with OAT then a private GE safari will certainly be cheaper than OAT/2Afrika group tours of 10-60 people!

And GE is not even the cheapest outfitter! I wish Leopard/Sunny/Ranger and others will also publish their prices!

Jules, to get the full link for that thread, once you've pulled it up yourself, right click on the title of the thread (assuming you're on a PC, not a MAC) and copy the shortcut/ link location and then paste that into your post here.

Eben - it might be my math, but with a longer stay on OAT (~2 weeks) vs. ~ 10 nights with GE, OAT is still less expensive on safari portion with airfare excluded. Actually to me it does make sense for a private safari to be more costly. There are some flexibility issues on group tours.

OAT's trip isn't 2 weeks if we're talking about their Tanzania one. The actual safari is 9 nights plus 2 nights in Arusha.

I think the Good Earth itinerary is 8 nights safari plus 2 nights Arusha if I counted right, so 1 night difference.

Thanks, Patty. Actually, I was comparing the wrong rates - thinking of the Ultimate Africa (s. africa , botswana, etc) which is 19 days. There is the Best of Kenya and Tanzania for ~ 2 weeks. These longer trips probably do have ~4 days of travel time built in.

Really, it will come down to who/which company Barbara prefers or whether a group or private tour is more attractive.

Barbara - reading back, I think we missed talking about S. Africa since your focus was on Botswana / S. Africa. There are several others who have taken trips there so will pass back to others.